Do you own any weapons?

[Bozo Galora]

I just love to argue with someone who is absolutely sure he is right, but is totally 100% wrong, ill informed.

The personal option for owning a legal machinegun is totally STATE oriented. Some are easy (Oreg. Utah, N.M.,Tex, OHIO, PA, Ky, TN. etc).
Some are IMPOSSIBLE: Ca., N.Y. etc.
Example: A friend who is a 12 year deputy on the L.A. Sherrifs dep't applied for a class 3 lic. He is the father of 4, a homeowner, law enforcement officer. Cant get any better, right? His reason for the lic? He wanted to be the one selling auto weapons (MP5's)to his own dep't: why give profits to an outsider? Local Police chief -Hermosa Beach/Cal. Attorn. Gen. says: not good enough reason, "denied"
Now lets get back to my friend in Ky.
Mandatory first step-
He applied for 01 FFL (non MG) firearms dealer license. Backround check, no fingerprints
He then applies for Title 2 class3 (03)lic. upgrade. The DAY his check for $500 clears (2 1/2 months), his MG dealer lic is in effect. Redo $500 yearly. $200 tax stamp/per gun to purchaser.
He just sold (delivered yesterday) an MP5 with silencer ($8500) to a local guy, individual, a truckdriver. Took four months for paperwork. HE goes through complete NCIC/photo/FBI/Fingerprints backround check. Gets local Police Chief signoff. DONE.
I'm not gonna argue this crap with you anymore.
Go to http://www.gunlist.net class #6220 Military/automatic weapons for sale or http://www.shotgunnews.com class #4220 and call up some dealers for chrissake.

 

[montanafan]

Just a quick, Thank You, to those of you who were kind enough to give me some advice on shotguns. I'll check out the 410 and 12 gauges.

 

[Red Mist]

Guns that I have now or have owned in the past.

Winchester M70 Heavy Varminter 223 with a 6-24X44 target scope
Remington 700 VLS 243 with a 24X44 target scope
Remington 700 ADL 22-250 with a 4-16X40 scope
Custom 22-250 built off of a Mauser 98 action with a 30" Douglas barrel that had a straight contour and a Timney trigger. Weighed to much to do anything with but set on a bench 24X44 Target scope on this one also
Ruger 10/22T with a 4-16X40 scope. I highly recommend this .22 to anyone that is looking for a highly accurate .22 to punch paper with right out of the box.
Remington 541T .22
Marlin bolt action .22 (I forgot the model of this one but it was stainless steel with a synthetic stock)
Remingtion 522 .22 with a 4X32 scope
Remington 870 Express 12 ga
Old single shot .410 that I got as a present when I was 12 years old or so.

I reload all of the ammo that I shot with the exception of the .22 ammo which i would if ya could

 

[Outfits]

I own 50+ firearms
100+ knives,and swords
a dozen or so misc edged and martial arts weapons

On the issue of full auto weapons, i have two friends who own one each. We have an anual Machine Gun Competition in Las Cruces, where you can see scores of full autos from Bren's to MP5's. One fellow has a CJ5 fixed up to look like a WW2 jeep with a Browning(bless his soul) 30 mounted on the roll bar. There are plenty of legally owned class 3 weapons. Permits ARE a lot of trouble to get(our state senators son told me the FBI took 6 months before they approved his). If you have a clean record,your state allows them,and you don't mind the possibility of the ATF searching your home/business whenever they want and you can afford it plus the ammo it takes(about the slowest rate of fire I know of is 450rpm) you too can have one.

 

[Bozo Galora]

Dear Ms. Montalfan:

Don't buy a shotgun, these are not for women, especially in self defense situation. When in a life/death scenario, its too hard to manipulate, and a pump is usually "short jacked" in a frantic effort to get a shell in the chamber, causing an instant jam. Then one must remember to take the safety off, another thing forgotten in a panic.
The only viable self defense shotgun is a semi-auto, and the only one that does not jam is the Benelli Super 90, 12GA, way too big and powerful for you.
You are left with two good choices:
Bedroom:
Browning Buckmark .22 rimfire, short barrel ($179)
10 shot clip, very reliable,light (alum. frame), no recoil, leave chamber empty, pull back slide in emergency to load first round.
.22 RF head shots are almost always fatal.
Carry:
S&W 640 stainless hammerless (tritium nite sites).357 mag. 5 shot snubnose($400 - $350 no tritium)
Use 38 low power wadcutter (target) ammo (.357 way too much for you)
Wadcutters are quite lethal due to sharp corners.
No safety, easily concealed, internal hammer - no snagging, always ready, double action only, heat treated for .357 use so it wont shoot loose like other S&W's.

This is real world, not macho Fantasy Island.
Remember, the perp is good at getting the drop on you, thats his business. A barking dog is your first defense.
Go to a range, put on sunglasses to simulate shooting in dark - thats the way it will happen - instinct shooting.

 

[Shuxclams]

Umm...I have some guns, I can't/won't go into it any further.



SHUX

 

[Tominator]

<< I'm not gonna argue this crap with you anymore. >>



I just though you had your time line incorrect with your 'Friend.' Seems I was correct.

That's the beauty of beauracracy, if you KNOW someone [A Senator's son for instance] all things are possible.

You nor I know the individual circmstances in detail of that 'Truck Driver' buying the MP5.

Sorry bud but anyone who recommends a semi-auto handgun to a woman who is not going to shoot several thousand rounds to become proficient, or would recommend it for a man for that matter, doesn't know a lot about guns..although it's plain you think you do.



<< 22 RF head shots are almost always fatal. >>


Although I might agree on the choice of weapon, this is patently ridiculous. Head shots are rarely fatal with any round let alone a puny rim fire.

Ever shoot a 640 in .357? Most would flinch for the rest of their lives! Now I realize you suggested wadcutter ammo, which is another HUGE JOKE, because the sharp corners are lethal. That would be funny if this were not a serious discussion.

Do you know anything about ballistics? Do you have any idea what it takes to put down a human with a bullet? From what you've posted, I think not.

Without your permission, I've printed out your post. It will be on the peg board at the local shop...right beside the cartoons and jokes..




<< wont shoot loose like other S&amp;W's. >>

LOL!



<<
The only viable self defense shotgun is a semi-auto, and the only one that does not jam is the Benelli Super 90 >>



This is TOO much. ROTFL!



<< . Then one must remember to take the safety off, another thing forgotten in a panic. >>

And the Browning Buckmark doesn't have a safety?



<< Outfits >>


Bet your friends have had their full-autos for quite a while..




<< I just love to argue with someone who is absolutely sure he is right, but is totally 100% wrong, ill informed. >>



Me too!

 

[Bozo Galora]

Big, know nothing, blowhard.
A legend in his own mind.
Self proclaimed, self annointed depository of all truth.
Tries to browbeat forum goers into submission using the keyboard as his domination tool.

I pity the poor woman who marries/married this guy.

 

[Tiger]

Bozo Galora,

What is the purpose of a home defense weapon?
To stop the intruder.

Which would guarantee stopping said intruder, a head shot with a .22, or a 12ga loaded with #4 with center mass as the target?

My point is, most people when faced with that situation are in no shape mentally or physically to pull off a head shot, adrenalin, dark, etc.... The FBI and most all Law enforcement agencies I know of teach their people to go for center mass, not some Hollywood induced head shot.

BTW, my 1100 has been through some of the worst conditions anbody has ever put an autoloader through and has never, ever, jammed. Including being dumped overboard a duck blind.

BTW#2, What does a Bennelli cost compared to a Remington 1187, X2, X3?

 

[TimberWolf]

Bennelli shotguns ('round these parts) are typically $700 and up; They now have a &quot;budget&quot; line starting around $400.

Remington 870's run $400 or more, Mossberg 500's start around $240.

Maverick is a Mossberg &quot;budget&quot; line. Their &quot;Defender&quot; model is a pistol-gripped pump-action with a 20&quot; barrel in 12 Gauge, and retails for less than $200.

Norinco is now making a copy of the Remington 870 (but parts are not interchangeable) with &quot;ghost ring&quot; sights and 20&quot; barrel. Retail price is well under $200! Norinco is a Chinese import; the quality of their products range from Fair to Very Good. Personally, I have a problem with purchasing products from a wholly-owned subsidiery of the Army of the Peoples Republic of China - the same folks responsable for the Tienemen Square Massacre. Please keep that in mind if you're looking to save a few dollars.

For the un-initiated, &quot;ghost ring&quot; sights are a desireable feature on tactical shotguns. The front sight is usually a heavy blade type, and the rear sight is a large ring. There are usually thick ears protecting both sights from impact damage. &quot;Ghost ring&quot; sight allow for rapid target aquisition, especially under low light and/or high stress conditions. They are ideal for shotgun use, where &quot;close enough&quot; usually gets the job done . . .

The natural progression of sight / target aquisition is: Rear sight, front sight (bringing the weapon into alignment), target. The ring makes it easier to aquire and align the front sight, and as your focal point of vision moves to aquire the target, the rear sight (no longer in sharp focus, and having served it's initial purpose) fades, or &quot;ghosts&quot; from view.

The only negative aspect (IMHO) of using a shotgun for defense is that if an assailant can get close enough to grab the muzzle or barrel, they can use superior leverage to effectively gain control of the firearm, i.e.: Where the business end is pointed. This is A Bad Thing (tm). That is why you do not try to find an intruder . . .

Home and/or Personal Defense is a &quot;package&quot; concept - A mindset that requires situational awareness and planning. As Bozo pointed out, in many cases, your best &quot;first line of defense&quot; is a barking dog. Study the floor plan of your home, and decide where the most easily defensible (and &quot;family-accessible&quot room is. Equip it with a solid-core or metal door with a one-way deadbolt. Put a phone there, keeping in mind that you can't cut the line to a cell phone. Take a &quot;defense course&quot; and become knowledgable about current laws for your state, especially regarding the use of lethal force.

Your priorities are: Get the family to a safe area. Call for help; Tell them where you are in the house and stay on the line. Let the intruder know you are armed, and fully prepared to defend yourself. Wait for help.
************************************

Tom:

I dropped my FFL as a gunsmith 5 years ago. I've performed onsite repairs on NFA firearms while I had it. Two calls to &quot;local&quot; NFA dealers yesterday confirmed Bozo's experiences. Average wait for approval is 4-5 months with CLEO approval; suppressors included. And you don't need to be &quot;a senator's son&quot;, or know one. Perhaps your experience has much to do with your particular area.

BTW, the M-2 Browning .50 cal is absolutely THE most impressive weapon I've ever had the priveledge to fire, followed by the MG-42.

 

[Tiger]

Good points about dealing with an intruder Timberwolf.

My point about using the gun was assuming you've done everything else on the list and have to shoot. I might add, don't let the intruder get within jumping distance. If he/she gets with in a 15ft perimeter, or opens the door to your defensive position, shoot, aiming for the center of their chest.

 

[HannibalX]

Depending on their distance from you, a shot gun blast could cut the victims body in half, which also depends on the gauge of the weapon.

My grandpa was a Marine in WWII/Korea and the Marines love shot guns, he has told me stories of 12 gauges blowing mens heads off clean, cutting them in half at the waste, dislocating limbs etc ALL without precise aim. So I think I would rather have a shot gun then a pistol. I wanna cut him in half, not put a whole the size of a dime in his head at 20-30+ feet - thats just sorta unrealistic.

I mean we are talking about a person who has probobly never fired any sort of firearm - a seasoned veteran who is calm and reserved in a situation like this with a steady hand could sure cap the guy easy - but a frightened women (or man) with possible no experience is just not gonna get a head shot. (Unless they consistantly reloaded me thinks).

 

[Tominator]

Bozo Galora
Notice the differences in our posts? I attack what I believe are your mis-informed ideas. You simply attack me....Is that why you are called Bozo?
Your comments were not warranted or called for.
I'm at least wrong on assuming all states would be treated equally by the authorities, but I'm going on what I've been told by the BATF concerning an Illinois Dealer I've worked for.

Tiger


<< Which would guarantee stopping said intruder, a head shot with a .22, or a 12ga loaded with #4 with center mass as the target? >>



Easy. #4 Buckshot in the midsection. Which, btw, is the only size shotgun shell that should be used for home defense if there is any danger at all of over penetration. That is neighbors, or other people in adjacent rooms. #2 has the equivelent mass and velocity of a .357 magnum...for each pellet! It sould easily penetrate a wall and hurt or kill an unintended victum.



<< Depending on their distance from you, a shot gun blast could cut the victims body in half, which also depends on the gauge of the weapon >>



I'm thinking your beloved grandpa's story gets a little stretched with age.

Anyone that practices or 'goes for a headshot' is a idiot! Read a few books written by those that have had to defend oneself. They claim to be anything but 'calm and reserved.'

I've tested, demonstrated and sold NFA weapons in 4 states directly and been a part of demonstrations for various Police agencies in as many others. In '89, we were told by the BATF to cease and desist from evening thinking of taking application from individuals. We are in Illinois. I know of several Doctors and Lawyers who have successfully gotten a 'Machine Gun.' I know several Police Officers, includeing a State Policeman, A Federal Marshall, and a 25 year Veteran of the Sheriffs Department that were turned down.

There are no 'shall issue' laws regarding Class 3 weapons. If you have enough money, we know that you can get away with murder or anything else in out flawed society. The BATF does not give out permits to own a Class 3 weapon just because you apply! It takes money!



<< perhaps your experience has much to do with your particular area. >>


I only know what I was told by the BATF. So you are right. The laws are, and never will be, carried out in a fair and unbiased way. BTW, this meeting with said BATF agents is why I quit the business, in a large way.


If anyone is looking for a defense shotgun there are Smith&amp; Wesson Model 3000 12ga shotguns on the market that are Police tradeins. The mechanism doesn't permit a 'short stroke.' I've seen them for under $200. Made in Japan, btw.

TimberWolf
Those are my two favorites as well! We had a MG38 and a 42! BTW, for those wondering. They are the German Machine Gun mounted on various bipods or tripods that are famous in the movies and whose basic design is what our[US Military] M60 is based on.

 

[TimberWolf]

For your viewing pleasure:

http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/50cal.htm

http://www.macsweeneysresort.com/products/mg42.html

Home Defense, indeed!

BTW, in the late 1920's the Auto-Ordnance Company originally advertised the Thompson Sub-Machinegun as &quot;an ideal weapon for varmint control&quot;. At a cost of $425, very few average citizens were likely to purchase one, as a Ford Model-T could had for about $300, and the average wage was about $20 a week.

Prior to the National Firearms Act of 1936 (NFA), any civilian could own any type of firearm (or even cannons). The NFA was enacted by Congress, under pressure by President Roosevelt and FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, to address a largely non-existant &quot;problem&quot;: The Hollywood and news-media fueled illusion that machineguns were the preferred &quot;weapons of choice&quot; of organized crime.

The reality then was the same as it is today: With rare exceptions, criminals rejected the use of automatic weapons because they are expensive, difficult to conceal, and require a significant investment in training (and ammo) to shoot accurately.

But, under the impetus of &quot;Public Safety&quot; and fueled by sensationalized media reporting of &quot;citizens 'mowed down' in the midst of gang wars&quot;, Congress exercised it's &quot;powers to regulate interstate commerce&quot; - &quot;powers&quot; without any Constitutional basis - to enact a Tax &amp; Registration scheme crafted largely to circumvent the 2nd Amendment while avoiding an &quot;unconstitutional&quot; challenge in the court system.

 

[Croton]

i carry 2 weapons with me at all times..

my fists.

 

[kabelogo]

I have a HK usp40. Got it before the law changed for magazine capacity.

I would never buy a glock. When glock was first made, the ft. worth police department adopted it, and within two months washed their hands of it. From cracked frames to sheared firing pins, they were the most unreliable pistols made. they are better now, but not great.

I would put the hk up against any pistol made as far as reliability. I carried a 23 in the army and learned first hand what true quality is.

Is it really LEGAL to own a suppresor, or a silencer, as a civilian? I'm not a law professional, but i always thought that was taboo.

 

[Prodigy^]

Trinitron and Tominator:

The glock has this &quot;double-trigger&quot; thingy, meaning that if you push the trigger at the top, or just get a small grip of it at the edge, it won't go off, because there's a tiny trigger in the middle of the trigger, so to speak, that needs to be pushed back before you can move the real trigger back.

oh, and there's also a safety thingy right above the trigger - I can't possibly believe that the gun will go off when this is on, otherwise it'd be pointless!

here's a pic, with the things marked:

http://hjem.get2net.dk/hl/pics/glock17.jpg

Also, it's ridiculous to see how light-heartet you take the trigger lock issue. What if you're having your gun safe open, and a guy breaks into your house, and knocks you out? What do you do when you're out hunting? just carry your guns, almost ready to fire, in a bag? Sheeesh.

 

[Vikaden]

kabelogo, you can own one legally, but you have to register it with the ATF as stated above

 

[han888]

i got a magic!! no need weapon, i can not die with a fire gun j/k
hahaahahahaahahah

 

[Bozo Galora]

Dear Mr. Turdmaker:

Does your brain work? Can you read English?
Or are you so in love with yourself that you cannot fully admit under any condition that you were wrong. (For whatever reason)
Wrong.

You are still purveying ignorance:

<<There are no 'shall issue' laws regarding Class 3 weapons. If you have enough money, we know that you can get away with murder or anything else in out flawed society. The BATF does not give out permits to own a Class 3 weapon just because you apply! It takes money!>>

I don't believe it! STILL saying that MG ownership is class/privilege related.
This is wrong.
Wrong.
Did you read TimberWolves post?
Does your mind reject anything that does not fit its version of truth?
Once again -
ANY idiot can own a MG/supressor/sawed off shotgun/ in the right states.
The BATF does not give out ANY &quot;permits&quot; for buying ANYTHING. If you passs the backround check, youre good to go - not &quot;blocked&quot; from purchasing tax stamp. The Treasury Dep't. does issue LICENSES to people doing business interstate in firearms, dubious authority given to it by Congress under the &quot;regulate interstate commerce&quot; provision of the Constitution.
When you, an individual, own an &quot;illegal&quot; MG, you are breaking a taxation law, not a criminal (penal) law. The Treasury sells tax stamps to cigarrette, alcohol manufacturers (sold in interstate commerce). THEY LEAVE IT UP TO THE STATES TO REGULATE SALES!!!! The Feds just want their money.
The registration scheme for these guns was found irrelevant in a Supreme Ct. decision in the 1980's, not pertinent to taxation.

As far as attacking you personally, you first called me a liar, then said my next post was going to be hung for laughs in public. I give back what I am given. The fact is, if one watches anothers posts over time, a certain &quot;personality&quot; emerges. You emerge as a &quot;full of oneself&quot; sick dog. You even make all of your posts four feet long.
Maybe you should tell the keepers in your ward at the psycho hospital to increase your dosage of Prozac.

And BTW:
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.
You were wrong.




And STILL continue to be wrong.

Thats W-R-O-N-G
as in incorrect!

(flat out wrong)

 

[M00T]

I have a turbo-action, steel plated, highly polished, fast-cocking, dual weighted, lazer sighted, rapid firing spoon...

&quot;SPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!!&quot;

 

[TimberWolf]

Prodigy^:

The leading cause of handgun accidental discharges (AD's) by law enforcement and military personnel - those who train with, and regularly carry handguns - is failure to properly index the trigger finger outside of the trigger guard when securing the firearm in a holster.

Civilians are not exempt from this error, although the leading cause of AD's by civilians is failure to properly clear the firearm to ensure that a live round is not chambered. Also, SOP for the US military with the M9 Berretta (and the earlier issue 1911/1911-A1) is to carry &quot;on safe&quot;, uncocked, with a loaded magazine and empty chamber. The Berretta is also equipped with a &quot;loaded chamber&quot; indicator.

The Glock trigger safety, unlike a typical thumb actuated safety, does absolutely nothing to prevent this type of accident. It is the ONLY manual safety the firearm is equipped with.

There is a spring-loaded firing pin safety plunger, which is designed to prevent an AD caused by inertial forward movement of the firing pin in the event that the pistol is dropped muzzle first; but this is not a manually actuated feature.

The other &quot;safety thingy&quot; you identified (above the trigger) is the slide lock, which is retracted to remove the barrel/slide assembly for cleaning or further disassembly of the firearm; it is not a safety device. Incidentally, the picture you linked to shows the trigger in the forward, or cocked, position . . .

Training, regular practice, and situational awareness are the most effective &quot;tools&quot; for preventing AD's with any firearm; with the otherwise fine Glock design, they're your ONLY tools . . .
***********************************



<< Also, it's ridiculous to see how light-heartet you take the trigger lock issue. What if you're having your gun safe open, and a guy breaks into your house, and knocks you out? What do you do when you're out hunting? just carry your guns, almost ready to fire, in a bag? Sheeesh. >>



The only &quot;trigger lock issue&quot; is with the gun-grabbers, the media, and the un-informed -

• Almost all trigger lock designs are relatively easy to break and remove - thus serving no purpose for deterring theft;
  
• Few of those available prevent the firearm from being loaded;
  
• None of them are for use with a loaded firearm, since they can be manipulated with relative ease to cause the gun to fire.

So their ONLY purpose is to make an unloaded firearm safe? Or to delay MY access to the firearm when I absolutely need it?

Maybe the real &quot;purpose&quot; is to encourage the public to accept gradually increasing conditions for the ownership, storage, and use of firearms until a majority of us finally say: &quot;What's the use? It costs too much; it's too much red tape. It's just not worth it . . .&quot;

Sorry, but the &quot;Open safe/Break-in/Knock out&quot; scenario is a real stretch of the imagination. And, by definition, hunting is &quot;carrying your gun, almost ready to fire&quot;. Personally, I leave the case in the truck . . .

 

[Tominator]

Bozo Galora


<< I don't believe it! STILL saying that MG ownership is class/privilege related >>


In Illinois, this is the case. Now, I know individuals in the past who have been denied at the Federal Level and some for Political Reasons. I'm not argueing you points about the 'letter of the law.'

And again, there are no 'shall issue' laws! Your application may be denied for any reason and they do not even need to tell you why...long before it gets to your local Constable.

Thanks, Red Dawn, that explains a lot!

I've got a Model 21 Glock, and love it! It is the most reliable .45 I've ever shot! Other than an UZI carbine that is...


....Oh, and I'm off to buy some wadcutter ammo to keep in my 640! Just think of all the danger I've been in...I meen afterall...it's had Federal Nyclad Semi-wadcutter hollowpoint +Ps in it since I've had it! Damn FBI used that load for years! What were they thinking?

Notice Bozo or is it Bubba, that I made no mention of your Family in my 'arguments?'

The Glock's second safety is a firing pin block. The third is special order and is a magazine disconnect.

Oh, sice this isn't quite a mile long yet..


<< When you, an individual, own an &quot;illegal&quot; MG, you are breaking a taxation law, not a criminal (penal) law. >>


Tell that to one of my old 'Biker Buddies!' He went to jail for ten years. Charged with a criminal law....nothing was ever mentione about taxes. I talked to his Lawyer as I knew him as well.

 

[0beron]

Does a killer smell count?
I also have a back up weapon for those ambushes that come from behind.

 

[Bozo Galora]

This thread had died, for all intents, twice, but NO - you just gotta get in the last word, having had your bloated self worth challenged.

The low power wadcutter load that I suggested has proved best for women, gained from long experience trying to get &quot;run of the mill&quot; females to hit something. In fact, the OLD FBI load was a round nose '38 slug put in cartridge upside down. The most lethal .357 round is the world is the Federal plain 155 Gr. HP, followed closely by the Federal 125 Gr. JHP., as noted in real world shooting autopsies documented in several Evin Marshall books. Of course, the jack-off, barrel sucking, macho gun nut has to have the latest hottest trick ammo - just to brag to his friends (It makes his penis feel longer). In my experience, someone who has an anal focus on ammo is usually a coward who has never seen lethal combat, and its end results. In fact, that &quot;home defense&quot; shootout you dream about, no matter how clean, will usually end up in CIVIL lawsuit by the survivor family costing many thousands even if you prevail.

And now for the third and last time: Your biker friend was prosecuted under STATE penal laws. Local gang bangers are ROUTINELY caught with cheap sawed-off shotguns, and the FEDS ALWAYS (virtually) allow local DA to determine if FED &quot;no tax stamp&quot; charges are initiated, usually never.

WHY IS THIS CONCEPT SO HARD FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND.

If he was ALSO given FEDERAL TAXATION AVOIDANCE (Treasury Dep't - not Justice Dep't) counts, its because your &quot;friend&quot; was such a scumbag that they wanted to put the guy away for a long time. If he was ONLY given FEDERAL counts, he would be doing time in a Federal Pen., but I'll bet he's in a state penitentiary. (Of corse you will deny this)

The older I get, the more I see that the Handgun Control people are right - the lunatic fringe 1% of wacko gun owners are enough reason to outlaw all guns. This is unfortunate for the normal citizen.