Disturbing Article about Obama and his minister

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: RY62
You can try to twist what I say and divert from the topic at hand if you want. I've had my rant and the fact remains...Obama is the loser. The average American voters will never go for this shit. He and his followers can try to spin it any way they want but the truth is out and it's not going away.

The Democratic party seems to enjoy being the losers. Democrats should have had an absolute lock on this election but had to blow it by pushing an unknown, inexperienced, far left candidate and dividing ourselves. After being divided, we find out that the leading candidate is now un-electable. McCain is starting to look better every day. With this crap hanging on Obama and a divided Dem party, McCain should have no problem in November.

You know what I like about being a Democrat? When we run into the walls, we do it at full speed. I think Obama is being Swiftboated with this minister story, which was pretty inevitable, but for better or worse, we've got at least one real candidate in this race. Whatever Obama's flaws, he's a guy with some good ideas and a pretty positive outlook on what we can do as a country. He might not be the perfect candidate, he might not be the candidate most likely to win...but he might be the RIGHT person to lead this country.

One thing I've never liked about the Republican party as a whole is that they're too good at politics. Watching them square off against the Democrats is sometimes like watching the Dallas Cowboys play against some fraternity Ultimate Frisbee team. Look at McCain, he's like a candidate designed by committee...everybody puts in a good political trait and he turns into absolutely nothing at all. That may work to win the election, but that's horse race crap...and shame on us for thinking that's the same thing as picking a good person to lead this country. We're not Obama's campaign managers, why are we talking about electability? We should be asking whether or not we think the candidate in question is a good person to lead the country. If so, we vote for 'em...if not, we don't.

Explain to me how Obama is being "switfboated"? He is quoted as saying that this scumbag preacher is his "moral compass" and that he has been a loyal member of this intolerant "church" for over 20 years, where he got married and had his kids baptized. To sit here and think that constitutes swiftboating greatly reduces the heroism of Kerry and has NOTHING to do with this situation.
Two weeks ago you called me a Republican "shill" for thinking this was an important issue, does your use of the word "swiftboating" still imply that you think that this issue says nothing about Obama or the people he has associated with? Or does this make him a "real candidate"? Let me tell you most Americans will not be tolerant of a "real" candidate that has a "moral compass" that is nothing but immoral in his beliefs. More like swerving in to a wall full speed when the finish line is right in front of you.

I don't think I've ever called anyone on P&N a shill, I certainly would remember if I called you a shill two weeks ago.

He's being swiftboated in the sense that people are taking an event and trying their hardest to turn it into an issue because it's good politics for them. I don't like what the minister said, but I'm not voting for HIM for President, and I don't to believe Obama is somehow controlled by this guy any more than I think he's a closet Muslim. There have been NO indications that Obama is a racist or a black supremacist, quite the opposite, but nobody ever went broke in politics playing the racism against white people card, so various folks are running around like crazy trying to tie Obama and his minister together like we're voting for the minister for President.

It's cheap politics, mostly because there's nothing there but innuendo...and in that respect this attack very much resembles the Swift Boat attacks on John Kerry in 2004. And what's worse, everybody KNOWS it's just good political gamesmanship, but nobody wants to be the first to say it. Sure, Obama said something stupid considering what this minister has been saying...but does anyone honestly believe that Obama is a closet racist? Or is this just political folks jumping on any small crack in a candidate's armor like a pack of starving hyenas?

That's my problem with all of this, it's not a great debate...it's dirty pool. It's waiting around for a political gaffe and then jumping all over it because that's how you win the game. I don't think Obama is an amoral racist, and neither do you...and neither do any of the people attacking him for what his minister said. Some folks just recognize a political opportunity when they see one and go for it. And it's the same folks who were jumping up and down on Obama being some sort of closet Muslim extremist, and it's no doubt the same group of people who will jump up and down on the next thing to come along. Which is fine...if you're Hillary or McCain's campaign manager, but I don't like how politicians have managed to rope the rest of us into doing their dirty work for them.

We're supposed to honestly think about the candidates and the issues and decide who we think the best choice is. If people see Obama's minister and honestly think that means Obama is a racist, then I can respect that, even if I disagree. But that's not what's happening here...at all.

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Well since I'm not voting for Farrakhan or Obama's minister for President, I'm not entirely sure what this article has to do with anything. If Obama has been influenced by the ideas described in the article, he's hiding it really, REALLY well. Far more so than any candidate in recent memory, Obama is running a campaign that appeals to a broad range of folks from every race and religion...that would seem to contradict the insinuation in this "article" pretty well.

You need to hear this ass preach he actually blames the USA for 911 and calls the USA the "US of KKK" when questioned on it Barak said he never "read" that about his pastor.

But he didn't say he did not "hear it?"

This man is his spiritual leader for 20 years! Married by him babies baptistized by him... yada yada

Where is his judgement to distance himself from this downright unpatriotic racist blowhard that spreads hate speach from the puplit? I heard his hate speech tonight man scarry that people were cheering him...

creepy

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: loki8481
I think saying it's simply guilt my association is severely downplaying the relationship between this guy and Obama.

my best friend's wife is a huge racist. it bothers me, but I generally don't say anything because I only have a superficial relationship with her and don't want to create drama for my friend. accusing me of being a racist based on my lose relationship with her would be guild my association.

if I spent 20 years giving her money to further her vision of America, had her baptize my kids, speak at campaign rallies, and referred to her as my moral compass, then yeah... I think it'd be fair to question it.

It's a fair question only if you listen to ALL his sermons. You can't make a scientific regression from two or three speeches. In politics, it may work, but you'd know damn well that you're lying to yourself and seeing what you want to see.

False I heard 10 or so tonight and the way he say them is troubling. If McCain had a white preacher saying the same types of things about black people he'd be blackballed tomorrow it is a double standard and you are propogating it.

 

[lopri]

Imagine this:

The minister in question has given sermons on more than a couple occasions, possibly many more times every Sunday for the past two decades, with politically charged, hate-mongering speeches. A few notable examples being -

- Blacks were and are the trouble of our nation throughout the history.
- The government shouldn't waste our taxes to build more jails. It'd be better to re-enforce capital punishment for God's sake.
- Blacks' sympathetic attitude towards terrorism will bring more terrors to our nation.
- Blacks are spreading HIV to whites. God please save America!
- Hurricane Katrina is God's punishment to blacks who are contaminating the otherwise clean our society with drugs.
- etc..

This minister happens to be a prominent Senate/presidential candidate's pastor for the good part of his adult life. The candidate said the ministor had been his 'sound board' who consult when he felt lost and gave him the inspiration for his political future. The candidate had the minister officiate his marriage and had him baptize his two daughters as well. The candidate recently published a book which also happened to be inspired by the minister's philosophy and eventually appointed him as his 'moral' advisor in his presidential campaign. They also prayed 'privately' before the candidate announced his run for the presidential election. His wife has reportedly uttered comments in line with the minister's points of view (namely resentment towards blacks) and he and his wife also took their daughters to the minister's speech every weekend.

Government-suppressed media wasn't willing to take a risk of mocking this candidate but the power of internet was beyond anyone's reach, and now that the relationship between the minister and the candidate has been revealed, the candidate says the minister was merely his 'moral' advisor, not a 'political' advisor. He says the ministor is like an 'uncle' he sometimes doesn't agree with everything he says. While the minister now resigned from his campaign board and he denounced the minister's past/current arguments, the candidate wouldn't answer whether the minister voluntarily quit or he asked him to quit, nor he clarifies which part of the minister's points of view he agrees or disagrees.

 

[lopri]

It is unfortunate but I am all for Democratic party's win in November. I can't help but worry about Obama's electability. Don't get me wrong. I do agree with some of the minister's comments. And if it were about some debates in political science class, it'd not be a big deal whatsoever. It could be a mainstream liberal view in academics. However, as a person who 'hopes' for Democrat's win in Presidential election - This can't be a good news. If Republicans somehow obtained/obtains a video tape that shows Obama and his family sitting in the church while the minister was enthusiastically roaring.. Dem's will be done for. (As a matter of fact, I am positive to say that Repubs are already pursuing that goal, if not already achieved it)

 

[indigo196]

Originally posted by: Farang

Again you've made an argument for guilt by association. Until Obama makes comments or shows any sign of supporting the questionable things said by this minister, I don't see why it should matter. Just because the man knows about God and has spoken about faith in a way that touches Obama, does not mean Obama therefore must take his political advice from him.

Obama's dentist could be an anti-semite, but his only influence over Obama is cleaning his teeth.

I have to disagree.

First: The left has made a huge deal of McCain accepting the endorsements of the two moonbat right wing preachers... yet he never went to their church, was married by them, had his children baptised by them or planned on having them announce him at his presidential bid announcement.

Second: Barrak Obama has known this man for more than twenty years. He has in his church, using sermons (there are videos), spewed racial hatred and bigotry. I can not believe that a man of moral integrity would have stayed a memeber of that church and allowed his children to be exposed to such nonsense; unless he believed that nonsense.

Third: Your dentist reference falls flat. A dentist is no more than a person performing a task for you. They do not 'preach' to you or serve as an inspiration for your book. They do not 'bring' you to find Jesus as Obama has claimed. They are not your friend.

Obama is not as honest as he appears.
Obama apparently believes in some very racially disgusting things and attends a church that from all appearances does some good things (for the black community) but is radical and I have not seen any evidence that it is not racist.

 

[indigo196]

Originally posted by: da loser
decide for yourself, go to church with obama this sunday

http://www.streamingfaith.com/...ion.asp?networkid=1058
Live Webcast: Sunday 7:30 a.m. CST, 11:00 a.m. CST and 6:00 p.m. CST

The Rev. Wright has 'retired', or so we have been told, so we should not be seeing him on this stream... and with all the scrutiny I am sure the sermon will be toned down.

Smart criminals always put their best suit on and act restrained when being judged by the court; I would think that the men who control this church would be just as smart as a criminal.

 

[mrCide]

The moment I see even any remote hints that Obama believes in any type of racism/hate, I'll consider this nonsense, but until then, Obama still earns my trust over the other candidates, and much far over Hillary. My (real) father is racist, sometimes, but I still look to him for advice, help, moral support, and so on. It does not mean that I agree with him on some of his views. It's just how the world turns.

No one's been able to find anything even remotely close to Obama sharing the views they're saying are wrong--smear to smear to smear. No one's got anything on Obama so they're going to find all they can, since hey, the general population are NOT the smartest bunch. Unfortunately, this GE has no candidates left whom I endorse their stances/issues, so I'm voting on character. Obama is far ahead of Hillary and McCain in my opinion, and even with this pastor nonsense, I feel that people/media are not going to get anything 'better' than this trying to make Obama look bad.

Any way you swing it, he's been proven to be the most honest candidate of the bunch, with the most integrity. This is my personal opinion of course.

 

[waggy]

add this to his wifes remark about the US and it does paint a scarry picture.

i was thinking of voteing for Obama (hilary's dirty politics have really turned me off her) but i have to admit this is makeing me rethink it. Yes i know it is not him saying it. BUT it is a church he has gont to, baptised his kid in and was married in.

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: mrCide
The moment I see even any remote hints that Obama believes in any type of racism/hate, I'll consider this nonsense, but until then, Obama still earns my trust over the other candidates, and much far over Hillary. My (real) father is racist, sometimes, but I still look to him for advice, help, moral support, and so on. It does not mean that I agree with him on some of his views. It's just how the world turns.

No one's been able to find anything even remotely close to Obama sharing the views they're saying are wrong--smear to smear to smear. No one's got anything on Obama so they're going to find all they can, since hey, the general population are NOT the smartest bunch. Unfortunately, this GE has no candidates left whom I endorse their stances/issues, so I'm voting on character. Obama is far ahead of Hillary and McCain in my opinion, and even with this pastor nonsense, I feel that people/media are not going to get anything 'better' than this trying to make Obama look bad.

Any way you swing it, he's been proven to be the most honest candidate of the bunch, with the most integrity. This is my personal opinion of course.

Quote Source Newsmax: ?Wright's strong sentiments were echoed in the Sunday morning service attended by NewsMax. Wright laced into America's establishment, blaming the "white arrogance" of America's Caucasian majority for the woes of the world, especially the oppression suffered by blacks. To underscore the point he refers to the country as the "United States of White America." Many in the congregation, including Obama, nodded in apparent agreement as these statements were made.

Would having Obama be witnessed as listening to these sermons and nodding in agreement be a remote hint that he shares these views?

 

[Bumrush99]

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: mrCide
The moment I see even any remote hints that Obama believes in any type of racism/hate, I'll consider this nonsense, but until then, Obama still earns my trust over the other candidates, and much far over Hillary. My (real) father is racist, sometimes, but I still look to him for advice, help, moral support, and so on. It does not mean that I agree with him on some of his views. It's just how the world turns.

No one's been able to find anything even remotely close to Obama sharing the views they're saying are wrong--smear to smear to smear. No one's got anything on Obama so they're going to find all they can, since hey, the general population are NOT the smartest bunch. Unfortunately, this GE has no candidates left whom I endorse their stances/issues, so I'm voting on character. Obama is far ahead of Hillary and McCain in my opinion, and even with this pastor nonsense, I feel that people/media are not going to get anything 'better' than this trying to make Obama look bad.

Any way you swing it, he's been proven to be the most honest candidate of the bunch, with the most integrity. This is my personal opinion of course.

Quote Source Newsmax: ?Wright's strong sentiments were echoed in the Sunday morning service attended by NewsMax. Wright laced into America's establishment, blaming the "white arrogance" of America's Caucasian majority for the woes of the world, especially the oppression suffered by blacks. To underscore the point he refers to the country as the "United States of White America." Many in the congregation, including Obama, nodded in apparent agreement as these statements were made.

Would having Obama be witnessed as listening to these sermons and nodding in agreement be a remote hint that he shares these views?

The thing that shocks me most RY62, especially from people like Rainsford that are educated and articulate, is that people are always looking to make excuses or deflect blame to support a position. The main question these people have been asking when it comes to this situation is that, "Does this reflect on Obama and is he guilty by association?". Well, after reading more on the subject, and seeing this "preacher" in action the ANSWER IS HELL FNING YES! It does reflect on Obama. I'm not going to sugar coat it, or play the politically PC way to answer it. FACT: Obama went to this church for over 20 YEARS. FACT: This preacher has preached intolerant, racist and conspiracy theory views. FACT: Obama has ON THE RECORD called this "preacher" his spiritual guide. FACT: This "preacher" baptized his kids and has played an integral role in having Obama find Jesus.

Add all of this together and you have to be a MORON to think that Obama was oblivous to the politcal rhetoric of this preacher. So yes he is guilty by association. We aren't talking about a one time handshake or a press conference to gain politcal clout. We are talking about a 20+ year relationship with a "preacher" that uses god to further a sepratist, racist agenda. Spin it however the hell you want, but if this was McCain doing the same thing for a white supremacist church he would be forced to pull out of the campaign within a week.

 

[StageLeft]

After thinking on this longer and the comic nature of referring to bill clinton on monica as "riding dirty" notwithstanding, I have to say that Obama's inspiration and attendence of a church with this pastor is of concern. It really is, the guy is a bit whacked. Even if obama doesn't agree with it all, he must agree with most or else he'd simply not be attending the church.

That said, some of what the pastor says is actually true, despite it not being PC. I feel, for example, that the US' foreign involvement was one of the reasons al qaeda decided to execute 911 (and if you don't believe that, I think the CIA has concluded the same thing, so take the argument up with them). I think he also said HIV was created by the government or a government, which is also true. Actually I'm kidding there that's fvcking insane. I guess the guy is hit-or-miss.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
After thinking on this longer and the comic nature of referring to bill clinton on monica as "riding dirty" notwithstanding, I have to say that Obama's inspiration and attendence of a church with this pastor is of concern. It really is, the guy is a bit whacked. Even if obama doesn't agree with it all, he must agree with most or else he'd simply not be attending the church.

That said, some of what the pastor says is actually true, despite it not being PC. I feel, for example, that the US' foreign involvement was one of the reasons al qaeda decided to execute 911 (and if you don't believe that, I think the CIA has concluded the same thing, so take the argument up with them). I think he also said HIV was created by the government or a government, which is also true. Actually I'm kidding there that's fvcking insane. I guess the guy is hit-or-miss.

There's a lot of ignorance in the AA community, primarily due to a lack of education. Unfortunately, some of these beliefs are seen as facts. In hindsight Obama would've been better served going to a more docile pastor. This pastor looks like a very angry man. He's also old and you know how old people think they're always right and everybody else is wrong (there's no talking to them, lest you want to come across as being disrespectful). So, while he may have said some things that Obama agreed with. When it came to disagreements, Obama would've had no chance to convince him otherwise. Hence, that Uncle analogy is apt considering you will never change their mind but you still respect them in some ways.

 

[Bumrush99]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Skoorb
After thinking on this longer and the comic nature of referring to bill clinton on monica as "riding dirty" notwithstanding, I have to say that Obama's inspiration and attendence of a church with this pastor is of concern. It really is, the guy is a bit whacked. Even if obama doesn't agree with it all, he must agree with most or else he'd simply not be attending the church.

That said, some of what the pastor says is actually true, despite it not being PC. I feel, for example, that the US' foreign involvement was one of the reasons al qaeda decided to execute 911 (and if you don't believe that, I think the CIA has concluded the same thing, so take the argument up with them). I think he also said HIV was created by the government or a government, which is also true. Actually I'm kidding there that's fvcking insane. I guess the guy is hit-or-miss.

There's a lot of ignorance in the AA community, primarily due to a lack of education. Unfortunately, some of these beliefs are seen as facts. In hindsight Obama would've been better served going to a more docile pastor. This pastor looks like a very angry man. He's also old and you know how old people think they're always right and everybody else is wrong (there's no talking to them, lest you want to come across as being disrespectful). So, while he may have said some things that Obama agreed with. When it came to disagreements, Obama would've had no chance to convince him otherwise. Hence, that Uncle analogy is apt considering you will never change their mind but you still respect them in some ways.

Dari, and to clarify I still don't know, nor can I claim that Obama shares his views. However, I do know that Obama TOLERATED those views. I can only imagine the rhetoric this "spirtual advisor" preached off the record, but I can guess that it was much worse than the public speeches he gave.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Skoorb
After thinking on this longer and the comic nature of referring to bill clinton on monica as "riding dirty" notwithstanding, I have to say that Obama's inspiration and attendence of a church with this pastor is of concern. It really is, the guy is a bit whacked. Even if obama doesn't agree with it all, he must agree with most or else he'd simply not be attending the church.

That said, some of what the pastor says is actually true, despite it not being PC. I feel, for example, that the US' foreign involvement was one of the reasons al qaeda decided to execute 911 (and if you don't believe that, I think the CIA has concluded the same thing, so take the argument up with them). I think he also said HIV was created by the government or a government, which is also true. Actually I'm kidding there that's fvcking insane. I guess the guy is hit-or-miss.

There's a lot of ignorance in the AA community, primarily due to a lack of education. Unfortunately, some of these beliefs are seen as facts. In hindsight Obama would've been better served going to a more docile pastor. This pastor looks like a very angry man. He's also old and you know how old people think they're always right and everybody else is wrong (there's no talking to them, lest you want to come across as being disrespectful). So, while he may have said some things that Obama agreed with. When it came to disagreements, Obama would've had no chance to convince him otherwise. Hence, that Uncle analogy is apt considering you will never change their mind but you still respect them in some ways.

Your ignoring the fact that Obama continued to donate to him ($20,000 last year according to his tax records). He must have not been too upset with him. Remember, you can't pick who your uncle is but you sure as hell can pick who your pastor is.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
... So yes he is guilty by association. ...

guilty of what?

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Skoorb
After thinking on this longer and the comic nature of referring to bill clinton on monica as "riding dirty" notwithstanding, I have to say that Obama's inspiration and attendence of a church with this pastor is of concern. It really is, the guy is a bit whacked. Even if obama doesn't agree with it all, he must agree with most or else he'd simply not be attending the church.

That said, some of what the pastor says is actually true, despite it not being PC. I feel, for example, that the US' foreign involvement was one of the reasons al qaeda decided to execute 911 (and if you don't believe that, I think the CIA has concluded the same thing, so take the argument up with them). I think he also said HIV was created by the government or a government, which is also true. Actually I'm kidding there that's fvcking insane. I guess the guy is hit-or-miss.

There's a lot of ignorance in the AA community, primarily due to a lack of education. Unfortunately, some of these beliefs are seen as facts. In hindsight Obama would've been better served going to a more docile pastor. This pastor looks like a very angry man. He's also old and you know how old people think they're always right and everybody else is wrong (there's no talking to them, lest you want to come across as being disrespectful). So, while he may have said some things that Obama agreed with. When it came to disagreements, Obama would've had no chance to convince him otherwise. Hence, that Uncle analogy is apt considering you will never change their mind but you still respect them in some ways.

Dari, and to clarify I still don't know, nor can I claim that Obama shares his views. However, I do know that Obama TOLERATED those views. I can only imagine the rhetoric this "spirtual advisor" preached off the record, but I can guess that it was much worse than the public speeches he gave.

When you're that old, you have nothing to lose. This is even more so considering he's been a pastor for 36 years. I think what America is seeing is exactly what he's thinking. I doubt he was worse in private. The pulpit is his home. Nothing more, nothing less. He reminds me of my uncle. I hated that guy but he was good to be around around christmas time. But there was no talking back to him. I hated that too because I'm very argumantitive. Again, Obama had no chance in an argument with that guy and it telling him to moderate his speeches would've gotten a sharp response in the form of a long diatribe on racism. It's easy for people to say he should or shouldn't have done this or that just like it's easy for people to give advice to the wives of philandeering husbands. But leaving a church is a big deal, especially for AAs. Who knows, perhaps the pastor was more moderate in private than in public. My asshole uncle is like that.

 

[ericlp]

Personally I could care less what church a person goes too....

If this country was not so tied up on religion this wouldn't even be an issue.... Who cares what he believes in... It's obvious that if this nation was not so addicted to religion like a bunch of crack prostitutes then this wouldn't even made the headlines. It just goes to show how bad it really is...Or how bad it really has gotten. Sad...Sad...sad....

What if we had an atheist for a president? I bet you'd be all over that huh?

As for McCain? Well, probably better then bush but not by much... If he should win he will ride the religious voting christain bus on the way to the polls! Vote for him or your gonna burn in hell! Sheesh...

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Skoorb
After thinking on this longer and the comic nature of referring to bill clinton on monica as "riding dirty" notwithstanding, I have to say that Obama's inspiration and attendence of a church with this pastor is of concern. It really is, the guy is a bit whacked. Even if obama doesn't agree with it all, he must agree with most or else he'd simply not be attending the church.

That said, some of what the pastor says is actually true, despite it not being PC. I feel, for example, that the US' foreign involvement was one of the reasons al qaeda decided to execute 911 (and if you don't believe that, I think the CIA has concluded the same thing, so take the argument up with them). I think he also said HIV was created by the government or a government, which is also true. Actually I'm kidding there that's fvcking insane. I guess the guy is hit-or-miss.

There's a lot of ignorance in the AA community, primarily due to a lack of education. Unfortunately, some of these beliefs are seen as facts. In hindsight Obama would've been better served going to a more docile pastor. This pastor looks like a very angry man. He's also old and you know how old people think they're always right and everybody else is wrong (there's no talking to them, lest you want to come across as being disrespectful). So, while he may have said some things that Obama agreed with. When it came to disagreements, Obama would've had no chance to convince him otherwise. Hence, that Uncle analogy is apt considering you will never change their mind but you still respect them in some ways.

Your ignoring the fact that Obama continued to donate to him ($20,000 last year according to his tax records). He must have not been too upset with him. Remember, you can't pick who your uncle is but you sure as hell can pick who your pastor is.

You are right. But Obama didn't donate to the pastor, that would be illegal. He donated to the church, which was probably doing the kind of work Obama was doing when he was helping out the poor.

 

[da loser]

lol, the church is telling the congregation to give no interviews. they must have a lot of uncles that attend

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: da loser
lol, the church is telling the congregation to give no interviews. they must have a lot of uncles that attend

:laugh:. Circling the wagon. We'll see how effective that is.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Skoorb
After thinking on this longer and the comic nature of referring to bill clinton on monica as "riding dirty" notwithstanding, I have to say that Obama's inspiration and attendence of a church with this pastor is of concern. It really is, the guy is a bit whacked. Even if obama doesn't agree with it all, he must agree with most or else he'd simply not be attending the church.

That said, some of what the pastor says is actually true, despite it not being PC. I feel, for example, that the US' foreign involvement was one of the reasons al qaeda decided to execute 911 (and if you don't believe that, I think the CIA has concluded the same thing, so take the argument up with them). I think he also said HIV was created by the government or a government, which is also true. Actually I'm kidding there that's fvcking insane. I guess the guy is hit-or-miss.

There's a lot of ignorance in the AA community, primarily due to a lack of education. Unfortunately, some of these beliefs are seen as facts. In hindsight Obama would've been better served going to a more docile pastor. This pastor looks like a very angry man. He's also old and you know how old people think they're always right and everybody else is wrong (there's no talking to them, lest you want to come across as being disrespectful). So, while he may have said some things that Obama agreed with. When it came to disagreements, Obama would've had no chance to convince him otherwise. Hence, that Uncle analogy is apt considering you will never change their mind but you still respect them in some ways.

Your ignoring the fact that Obama continued to donate to him ($20,000 last year according to his tax records). He must have not been too upset with him. Remember, you can't pick who your uncle is but you sure as hell can pick who your pastor is.

You are right. But Obama didn't donate to the pastor, that would be illegal. He donated to the church, which was probably doing the kind of work Obama was doing when he was helping out the poor.

And who leads the church and is most instrumental in setting it's policies? The pastor does and he draws his living from the church. The more his supporters like what he says, the more they are willing to donate, so supporting the church is supporting the pastor.

I believe I read someplace that in order to join this church you had to sign something agreeing to support the church policies?

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Skoorb
After thinking on this longer and the comic nature of referring to bill clinton on monica as "riding dirty" notwithstanding, I have to say that Obama's inspiration and attendence of a church with this pastor is of concern. It really is, the guy is a bit whacked. Even if obama doesn't agree with it all, he must agree with most or else he'd simply not be attending the church.

That said, some of what the pastor says is actually true, despite it not being PC. I feel, for example, that the US' foreign involvement was one of the reasons al qaeda decided to execute 911 (and if you don't believe that, I think the CIA has concluded the same thing, so take the argument up with them). I think he also said HIV was created by the government or a government, which is also true. Actually I'm kidding there that's fvcking insane. I guess the guy is hit-or-miss.

There's a lot of ignorance in the AA community, primarily due to a lack of education. Unfortunately, some of these beliefs are seen as facts. In hindsight Obama would've been better served going to a more docile pastor. This pastor looks like a very angry man. He's also old and you know how old people think they're always right and everybody else is wrong (there's no talking to them, lest you want to come across as being disrespectful). So, while he may have said some things that Obama agreed with. When it came to disagreements, Obama would've had no chance to convince him otherwise. Hence, that Uncle analogy is apt considering you will never change their mind but you still respect them in some ways.

Your ignoring the fact that Obama continued to donate to him ($20,000 last year according to his tax records). He must have not been too upset with him. Remember, you can't pick who your uncle is but you sure as hell can pick who your pastor is.

You are right. But Obama didn't donate to the pastor, that would be illegal. He donated to the church, which was probably doing the kind of work Obama was doing when he was helping out the poor.

And who leads the church and is most instrumental in setting it's policies? The pastor does and he draws his living from the church. The more his supporters like what he says, the more they are willing to donate, so supporting the church is supporting the pastor.

I believe I read someplace that in order to join this church you had to sign something agreeing to support the church policies?

Church policies is helping the poor. You make it sound as if this is some demonic church that eats babies. The pastor may be an ignorant jackass but it doesn't mean he doesn't mean well.

 

[da loser]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: da loser
lol, the church is telling the congregation to give no interviews. they must have a lot of uncles that attend

:laugh:. Circling the wagon. We'll see how effective that is.

it's about to get interesting. the pastor is saying the black church will not shutup

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: da loser

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: da loser
lol, the church is telling the congregation to give no interviews. they must have a lot of uncles that attend

:laugh:. Circling the wagon. We'll see how effective that is.

it's about to get interesting. the pastor is saying the black church will not shutup

Indeed. I think he may have to shut up now that the whole nation is listening. EVERYONE has to answer to a higher source. He ain't no demi-god.