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Disturbing Article about Obama and his minister

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Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Fern
I don't know how long this story will go on, or whether it will hurt Obama.

But I do think one need consider if over +30 yrs they can only come up with about half a dozen crazy "soundbites" this might be a misrepresentation. Additionally, the sound bites are rather short, each maybe a minute. What was the guy saying for the other 59 minutes of the church service?

I saw Obama address this 2 or 3 different times last night. I recall seeing him on Fox and CNN. My wife and I thought he handled it extremely well. In denouncing the preacher's comments, he turned it from a messgae of despair (that's the preacher's) into a message of hope (Obama's).

If this preacher's "tirades" were very infrequent, I don't think Obama should have quit the church as many say. If you can only attend a church where you never ever disagree with something said, you'll run out of churches in a short time. Or perhaps need to look for one where nothing of substance is ever said.

I got the impression that some of these "sound bites" weren't not racist, although they were jammed in betweens ones that were making them look worse, but rather the preacher was "justifying" Obama's "blackness" to the African-American community. Things like Hillary ain't black, wasn't a black kid raised in a broken home like Obama etc. Remember that not long ago the black community didn't accept Obama, thinking he was not "black enough".

(Now, this is a problem, not because it's racists, but because IMO it's campaigning for Obama from the pulpit. That is not allowed under the 501(c)(3) (non-profit income tax) rules. I understand that the church is now being investigated by the IRS. I also understand that the preacher in question is retiring at the end of the month. Another reason not to quit.)

I'm a middle age white-guy. While surprised to think people would waste otherwise good "church" time on these topics, hear "GD" word and watch simulated Clinton sex acts in a church, blacks complaining about white dominance doesn't surprise or offend me.

I've grown up listening to liberal whites say the same thing. How can I be surprised or think it racist if black themselves say the same thing? Is this some white liberal double standard? White liberals can say these things but not black people?

Almost anything that pastor says I see here on the AT forum almost daily. Guilt for Hiroshima and Nagaski, that strikes me as run-of-the-mill liberal. Remember, the USA is the cause of problems in the world. White oppression of blacks? Well, excuse me. Here, on an almost daily basis, we who live in the South are referred to as incestuous nuckle-dragging backward redneck racists by those of you who live elsewhere. I see no outrage on the forums when that's posted, but I see it now when some Black preacher says it.

I guess I just think this is just blown out of proportion, and don't much personally care for guilt by association or bringing a church into politics.

Lastly, it occurred to me that those who say Obama is not ready to run against the Repubs because they will be tough and nasty and he untrested, can stop that line of argument now. I don't know of anything tougher and nastier than attacking a person's church or insinuating that they are a closet racists. This on top of "stealth Muslim". Nope, I think a battle against the Repubs will look like a cake-walk. Just a serious debate about policy & experience.(notwithstanding idiots like Hannity who will probrably keep harping on this crap.)

Fern
The thing that is making think twice about jumping on the "Obama is a closet racist" bandwagon, whatever I may think of some of the quotes from his minister, is that "closet racist" isn't usually something that works out too well for people. Racism tends to be a pretty powerful viewpoint, and most racists don't hide it very well at all. If Obama thinks white people are the devil, or whatever, he's doing a REALLY good job of hiding it.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: Dari


Africans that come here don't do either. The fact is, African-Americans came here as slaves and have had terrible things done to them. To compare them to immigrants is laughable.
And is there any African American alive today born as slave? African American has all the opportunity as anyone else, as long as they are willing to work hard, Obama is the perfect example himself.
You just proved my point. Obama is the son of an African immigrant and American woman. He is not the descendent of African-Americans. The African-American experience is a painful one and people don't forget easily.
So your point is that the immigrants of different races that come to this country and have to adapt to a new culture, language, and surroundings have it easier then those who were born in the USA, grew up in this culture, and speak English as well as the next person?

Wow, all I can say is that seems to be some serious self-delusion you have going there. I have to ask, are you black and are speaking from personal experience?
Immigrants come here because they want to. Hence, the effort to succeed is built in. The adversities you experience won't stop you at all. It's true for all immigrants, whether they are asians or blacks from Africa or the Carribeans. They all come here and work hard here. These blacks don't really relate to the AAs in this country and vice versa.
So the AA's that are here didn't ask to be here? Neither did I, but that and 50 cents might buy me a cup of coffee. Is that supposed to be some type of rationale that excuses one from working hard? Back in the day a lot of people used to bemoan the fact that they didn't ask to be born. I never understood that either?
Like I said before, AAs have a lot of legitimate reason to be pissed and they remember the terrible things done to them. But, TBH, they can't keep making excuses forever. Obama is closer to immigrants than native African Americans because his mother is white and his father was African. He's seeing their world from outside. That makes it a million times easier for him to disagree with them. That may be why he has such a positive attitude of America, compared to his wife, who is a native African American.
As somebody who looks black I don't see how his experience would be much different from any other black born in America? Indeed, it could be argued that he had it worse since he was half black.half white and never really fit in anyplace.
He didn't fit and you can see that in his book. But that is an advantage because it allows you to see the world as an outsider rather than part of a group. To many, including myself, that is a powerful vantage point.

To outsiders, these differences may not mean much but all it takes is a minute of thinking to come to the realization of how easy it is for someone like Obama to disagree with this pastor (and for his wife to sympathize with him).
If he disagreed with him why has he been supporting that church for over 20 years? Why does he refer to him as the person who keeps "his moral compass calibrated"?

Perhaps, just perhaps, this pastor is more than what you see in these few speeches? Why is that so hard to wrap your head around?
It's not hard for me to wrap my head around. He picked the side that could him the most good in Chicago politics and he played it for everything it's worth too.

There's nothing wrong with that, but if he's going to be running for POTUS then he needs to be forthright about that instead of feigning ignorance and trying to claim he was supposedly unaware of his mentor's views.
You have a point. But you are implying he's lying by saying he hasn't been forthright. In other words, you just don't believe him. I can't say I'm surprised considering you support Hillary. For me, looking at his history, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. If Obama has internalized any of the vitriol coming out of that Pastor's mouth, he would be a very bitter man. But he isn't.
LOL, and I'm not surprised that since your an Obama supporter that your willing to give him the "benifit of the doubt". The fact of the matter remains that he claimed he "wasn't at" the sermons in question so he was therefore unaware of this. How convienent..... too convienent if you ask me.

If evidence now comes out to the contrary then Obama is just another sleazy, lying politician and all the talk about his integrity will be just that....talk. It would have been so much smarter of him to have addressed this in depth and told the truth.

I was smart enough a long time ago to see this was going to come to a head if not now, then in the general election. He seemed to me to be just be, at best trying to postpone it until he put Hillary away.

Not very forward thinking in my opinion.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: Dari


Africans that come here don't do either. The fact is, African-Americans came here as slaves and have had terrible things done to them. To compare them to immigrants is laughable.
And is there any African American alive today born as slave? African American has all the opportunity as anyone else, as long as they are willing to work hard, Obama is the perfect example himself.
You just proved my point. Obama is the son of an African immigrant and American woman. He is not the descendent of African-Americans. The African-American experience is a painful one and people don't forget easily.
So your point is that the immigrants of different races that come to this country and have to adapt to a new culture, language, and surroundings have it easier then those who were born in the USA, grew up in this culture, and speak English as well as the next person?

Wow, all I can say is that seems to be some serious self-delusion you have going there. I have to ask, are you black and are speaking from personal experience?
Immigrants come here because they want to. Hence, the effort to succeed is built in. The adversities you experience won't stop you at all. It's true for all immigrants, whether they are asians or blacks from Africa or the Carribeans. They all come here and work hard here. These blacks don't really relate to the AAs in this country and vice versa.
So the AA's that are here didn't ask to be here? Neither did I, but that and 50 cents might buy me a cup of coffee. Is that supposed to be some type of rationale that excuses one from working hard? Back in the day a lot of people used to bemoan the fact that they didn't ask to be born. I never understood that either?
Like I said before, AAs have a lot of legitimate reason to be pissed and they remember the terrible things done to them. But, TBH, they can't keep making excuses forever. Obama is closer to immigrants than native African Americans because his mother is white and his father was African. He's seeing their world from outside. That makes it a million times easier for him to disagree with them. That may be why he has such a positive attitude of America, compared to his wife, who is a native African American.
As somebody who looks black I don't see how his experience would be much different from any other black born in America? Indeed, it could be argued that he had it worse since he was half black.half white and never really fit in anyplace.
He didn't fit and you can see that in his book. But that is an advantage because it allows you to see the world as an outsider rather than part of a group. To many, including myself, that is a powerful vantage point.

To outsiders, these differences may not mean much but all it takes is a minute of thinking to come to the realization of how easy it is for someone like Obama to disagree with this pastor (and for his wife to sympathize with him).
If he disagreed with him why has he been supporting that church for over 20 years? Why does he refer to him as the person who keeps "his moral compass calibrated"?

Perhaps, just perhaps, this pastor is more than what you see in these few speeches? Why is that so hard to wrap your head around?
It's not hard for me to wrap my head around. He picked the side that could him the most good in Chicago politics and he played it for everything it's worth too.

There's nothing wrong with that, but if he's going to be running for POTUS then he needs to be forthright about that instead of feigning ignorance and trying to claim he was supposedly unaware of his mentor's views.
You have a point. But you are implying he's lying by saying he hasn't been forthright. In other words, you just don't believe him. I can't say I'm surprised considering you support Hillary. For me, looking at his history, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. If Obama has internalized any of the vitriol coming out of that Pastor's mouth, he would be a very bitter man. But he isn't.
LOL, and I'm not surprised that since your an Obama supporter that your willing to give him the "benifit of the doubt". The fact of the matter remains that he claimed he "wasn't at" the sermons in question so he was therefore unaware of this. How convienent..... too convienent if you ask me.

If evidence now comes out to the contrary then Obama is just another sleazy, lying politician and all the talk about his integrity will be just that....talk. It would have been so much smarter of him to have addressed this in depth and told the truth.

I was smart enough a long time ago to see this was going to come to a head if not now, then in the general election. He seemed to me to be just be, at best trying to postpone it until he put Hillary away.

Not very forward thinking in my opinion.
Again, you are implying he's lying. I'm not sure what good discussing this with you will do since you aren't thinking from a rational P.O.V. This thing has been talked about for months (by Foxnews). The only reason why it came to a head is probably because the media wanted to "balance" Ferraro's blatant racist remarks with something from Obama's campaign.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
If forced to bet I would bet that Obama knew about his pastor's views. In fact he was counting on them to further his political career and it worked. Now he's running for POTUS and it's hurting him.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
31,796
2
0
Originally posted by: Dari
Again, you are implying he's lying. I'm not sure what good discussing this with you will do since you aren't thinking from a rational P.O.V. This thing has been talked about for months (by Foxnews). The only reason why it came to a head is probably because the media wanted to "balance" Ferraro's blatant racist remarks with something from Obama's campaign.
This has been talked about for months but not these new statements from Wright about the "United States of KKK America" or "God Damn America" or the white men caused HIV conspiracy theory or the "Chickens coming home to roost" statement after 9/11. These are new revelations.

Obama's claim that he never heard Wright say anything like these statements in the 20+ years he attended the church is ridiculous and easily verifiable (DVDs will be running all weekend long). Likening Wright to a crazy old uncle is ludicrous considering how much money Obama has donated to the church and how close he and Wright are (how many people have their crazy uncles marry them?). He's setting himself up to be burned.

Obama may or may not be a racist. But I think it is clear that he has shown poor judgment in associating himself so closely with Wright. Howard Dean left his church over a disagreement over a bicycle path of all things. Obama, meanwhile, uses Wright as his moral compass and adviser.

He's also shown poor judgment with Rezco as well as Ayers of Weather Underground.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
If forced to bet I would bet that Obama knew about his pastor's views. In fact he was counting on them to further his political career and it worked. Now he's running for POTUS and it's hurting him.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.
Of course he knew his views. He said so himself. What he also said was that he wasn't there for those particular sermons. What part of that confuses you?

And how on earth would he count on these views to further his political career? IMHO, you seem bent on believing your own theories and treating them as facts.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
If forced to bet I would bet that Obama knew about his pastor's views. In fact he was counting on them to further his political career and it worked. Now he's running for POTUS and it's hurting him.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.
Of course he knew his views. He said so himself. What he also said was that he wasn't there for those particular sermons. What part of that confuses you?

And how on earth would he count on these views to further his political career? IMHO, you seem bent on believing your own theories and treating them as facts.
Now you have departed into the realm of ridiculous. My "therioes" are as valid as your willingness in "giving him the benifit of the doubt".

If this issue was so cut and dried as your attempting to paint it, then it wouldn't keep coming up. Go ahead and paint it as the media's fault, but if people weren't eating it up they wouldn't be giving it air time.

Like it or not, Obama has a problem that he hasn't satisfactorly been addressed.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
If forced to bet I would bet that Obama knew about his pastor's views. In fact he was counting on them to further his political career and it worked. Now he's running for POTUS and it's hurting him.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.
Of course he knew his views. He said so himself. What he also said was that he wasn't there for those particular sermons. What part of that confuses you?

And how on earth would he count on these views to further his political career? IMHO, you seem bent on believing your own theories and treating them as facts.
Now you have departed into the realm of ridiculous. My "therioes" are as valid as your willingness in "giving him the benifit of the doubt".

If this issue was so cut and dried as your attempting to paint it, then it wouldn't keep coming up. Go ahead and paint it as the media's fault, but if people weren't eating it up they wouldn't be giving it air time.

Like it or not, Obama has a problem that he hasn't satisfactorly been addressed.
Fair enough. Let's let it run its course. I'm willing to assume he's innocent of your ridiculous allegations unless something comes up. You, on the other hand, can continue to hope for the worst. How's that negative energy treating you?
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
If forced to bet I would bet that Obama knew about his pastor's views. In fact he was counting on them to further his political career and it worked. Now he's running for POTUS and it's hurting him.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.
Of course he knew his views. He said so himself. What he also said was that he wasn't there for those particular sermons. What part of that confuses you?

And how on earth would he count on these views to further his political career? IMHO, you seem bent on believing your own theories and treating them as facts.
Now you have departed into the realm of ridiculous. My "therioes" are as valid as your willingness in "giving him the benifit of the doubt".

If this issue was so cut and dried as your attempting to paint it, then it wouldn't keep coming up. Go ahead and paint it as the media's fault, but if people weren't eating it up they wouldn't be giving it air time.

Like it or not, Obama has a problem that he hasn't satisfactorly been addressed.
Fair enough. Let's let it run its course. I'm willing to assume he's innocent of your ridiculous allegations unless something comes up. You, on the other hand, can continue to hope for the worst. How's that negative energy treating you?
LOL, from my point of view that would be hoping for the BEST, so it's wouldn't be negative energy.

Besides, your the one doing all the hoping.... hoping that your blind faith is justifed. Maybe it is, but then again maybe it isn't? I don't know either way but it's clear to me you'd like nothing better then to sweep this whole thing under the rug and away from prying eyes ASAP.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
If forced to bet I would bet that Obama knew about his pastor's views. In fact he was counting on them to further his political career and it worked. Now he's running for POTUS and it's hurting him.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.
Of course he knew his views. He said so himself. What he also said was that he wasn't there for those particular sermons. What part of that confuses you?

And how on earth would he count on these views to further his political career? IMHO, you seem bent on believing your own theories and treating them as facts.
Now you have departed into the realm of ridiculous. My "therioes" are as valid as your willingness in "giving him the benifit of the doubt".

If this issue was so cut and dried as your attempting to paint it, then it wouldn't keep coming up. Go ahead and paint it as the media's fault, but if people weren't eating it up they wouldn't be giving it air time.

Like it or not, Obama has a problem that he hasn't satisfactorly been addressed.
Fair enough. Let's let it run its course. I'm willing to assume he's innocent of your ridiculous allegations unless something comes up. You, on the other hand, can continue to hope for the worst. How's that negative energy treating you?
LOL, from my point of view that would be hoping for the BEST, so it's wouldn't be negative energy.

Besides, your the one doing all the hoping.... hoping that your blind faith is justifed. Maybe it is, but then again maybe it isn't? I don't know either way but it's clear to me you'd like nothing better then to sweep this whole thing under the rug and away from prying eyes ASAP.
Actually you're wrong. TBH, I like all these things coming out. I like Clinton attacking him. I really want to see his responses to thest things and I really want people to see who we're dealing with. In life, it's not what happens to you that defines who you are. It's how you respond.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Dari

Actually you're wrong. TBH, I like all these things coming out. I like Clinton attacking him. I really want to see his responses to thest things and I really want people to see who we're dealing with. In life, it's not what happens to you that defines who you are. It's how you respond.
Just had to get a Clinton dig in, didn't you. OK then.

Then you must love this video:

Obama and the National Anthem

I'll never figure out how a fracking US Senator doesn't automatically put his hand over his heart when they play the national anthem at a public event??
 

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
773
32
91
It's laughable that the same people who would cry racism at the least little criticism of Obama would try to defend this lying piece of shit. Obama is finished as a presidential candidate and should be finished as a senator.

The people that are in agreement with the "God Damn America" mentallity would do well to remember that America is a free country and you are always free to get your ass out.

Obama started attending this church in 1985 and became a regular member in the early '90. Despite what he says, to try and save his ass, he was fully aware of the hatred and racism. IMO he became a member of this church because of the message. He was asked very pointed questions in an interview on FOX and they are going to hold his feet to the fire for the lies.

I posted here a while back that I believed Obama was a racist and I was called a bigot. What a joke. I lived in Chicago at the time he was a "cummunity activist". They did some good things like trying to end "black on black" crime, getting blacks registered to vote, etc. but they did these things with militant black racist attitudes. I can remember signs with their slogans that said "It's a Power Thing" along with a big X, as in Malcom X the Black Power Muslim spokesman for the Nation of Islam. I actually saw a picture of Obama posed beside one of these signs on CNN just before one of the early debates.

It's about time this story got some real coverage.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: RY62
It's laughable that the same people who would cry racism at the least little criticism of Obama would try to defend this lying piece of shit. Obama is finished as a presidential candidate and should be finished as a senator.

The people that are in agreement with the "God Damn America" mentallity would do well to remember that America is a free country and you are always free to get your ass out.

Obama started attending this church in 1985 and became a regular member in the early '90. Despite what he says, to try and save his ass, he was fully aware of the hatred and racism. IMO he became a member of this church because of the message. He was asked very pointed questions in an interview on FOX and they are going to hold his feet to the fire for the lies.

I posted here a while back that I believed Obama was a racist and I was called a bigot. What a joke. I lived in Chicago at the time he was a "cummunity activist". They did some good things like trying to end "black on black" crime, getting blacks registered to vote, etc. but they did these things with militant black racist attitudes. I can remember signs with their slogans that said "It's a Power Thing" along with a big X, as in Malcom X the Black Power Muslim spokesman for the Nation of Islam. I actually saw a picture of Obama posed beside one of these signs on CNN just before one of the early debates.

It's about time this story got some real coverage.
Those are the hallmarks of a loser.

 

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
773
32
91
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: RY62
It's laughable that the same people who would cry racism at the least little criticism of Obama would try to defend this lying piece of shit. Obama is finished as a presidential candidate and should be finished as a senator.

The people that are in agreement with the "God Damn America" mentallity would do well to remember that America is a free country and you are always free to get your ass out.

Obama started attending this church in 1985 and became a regular member in the early '90. Despite what he says, to try and save his ass, he was fully aware of the hatred and racism. IMO he became a member of this church because of the message. He was asked very pointed questions in an interview on FOX and they are going to hold his feet to the fire for the lies.

I posted here a while back that I believed Obama was a racist and I was called a bigot. What a joke. I lived in Chicago at the time he was a "cummunity activist". They did some good things like trying to end "black on black" crime, getting blacks registered to vote, etc. but they did these things with militant black racist attitudes. I can remember signs with their slogans that said "It's a Power Thing" along with a big X, as in Malcom X the Black Power Muslim spokesman for the Nation of Islam. I actually saw a picture of Obama posed beside one of these signs on CNN just before one of the early debates.

It's about time this story got some real coverage.
Those are the hallmarks of a loser.
The hallmarks of a loser? If someone loves his country he is a loser? If I won't tolerate anyone asking God to damn this country it makes me a loser? It seems you'd like to see this country destroyed even more than the current administration. Maybe that would make you a winner?
I hear Wright and other people saying that America got what it deserved on 911. I hear people badmouthing this country, calling it an Empire that needs to fall. I hear so much anti-American rhetoric and most of it is coming from within. IMO people are either part of the problem or part of the solution and this kind of talk is part of the problem. I will do what I can to help get this country back on track. I will fight to defend this country from enemies, both foreign and domestic and I consider anyone who would speak of America in the ways that Wright did an enemy of America.
Yes, I say help try to fix the problems, enjoy living in what I still consider the greatest nation on earth or get the hell out.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: RY62
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: RY62
It's laughable that the same people who would cry racism at the least little criticism of Obama would try to defend this lying piece of shit. Obama is finished as a presidential candidate and should be finished as a senator.

The people that are in agreement with the "God Damn America" mentallity would do well to remember that America is a free country and you are always free to get your ass out.

Obama started attending this church in 1985 and became a regular member in the early '90. Despite what he says, to try and save his ass, he was fully aware of the hatred and racism. IMO he became a member of this church because of the message. He was asked very pointed questions in an interview on FOX and they are going to hold his feet to the fire for the lies.

I posted here a while back that I believed Obama was a racist and I was called a bigot. What a joke. I lived in Chicago at the time he was a "cummunity activist". They did some good things like trying to end "black on black" crime, getting blacks registered to vote, etc. but they did these things with militant black racist attitudes. I can remember signs with their slogans that said "It's a Power Thing" along with a big X, as in Malcom X the Black Power Muslim spokesman for the Nation of Islam. I actually saw a picture of Obama posed beside one of these signs on CNN just before one of the early debates.

It's about time this story got some real coverage.
Those are the hallmarks of a loser.
The hallmarks of a loser? If someone loves his country he is a loser? If I won't tolerate anyone asking God to damn this country it makes me a loser? It seems you'd like to see this country destroyed even more than the current administration. Maybe that would make you a winner?
I hear Wright and other people saying that America got what it deserved on 911. I hear people badmouthing this country, calling it an Empire that needs to fall. I hear so much anti-American rhetoric and most of it is coming from within. IMO people are either part of the problem or part of the solution and this kind of talk is part of the problem. I will do what I can to help get this country back on track. I will fight to defend this country from enemies, both foreign and domestic and I consider anyone who would speak of America in the ways that Wright did an enemy of America.
Yes, I say help try to fix the problems, enjoy living in what I still consider the greatest nation on earth or get the hell out.
No. If you have problems with your country, you don't just up and leave. That's a loser's mentality. You try to fix the problem. You're entitled to your opinion. What you don't have is the right to tell those that hold divergent views to "get the hell out." The smartest thing to do is figure out what the problem is and try to fix it together.
 

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
773
32
91
You can try to twist what I say and divert from the topic at hand if you want. I've had my rant and the fact remains...Obama is the loser. The average American voters will never go for this shit. He and his followers can try to spin it any way they want but the truth is out and it's not going away.

The Democratic party seems to enjoy being the losers. Democrats should have had an absolute lock on this election but had to blow it by pushing an unknown, inexperienced, far left candidate and dividing ourselves. After being divided, we find out that the leading candidate is now un-electable. McCain is starting to look better every day. With this crap hanging on Obama and a divided Dem party, McCain should have no problem in November.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: RY62
You can try to twist what I say and divert from the topic at hand if you want. I've had my rant and the fact remains...Obama is the loser. The average American voters will never go for this shit. He and his followers can try to spin it any way they want but the truth is out and it's not going away.

The Democratic party seems to enjoy being the losers. Democrats should have had an absolute lock on this election but had to blow it by pushing an unknown, inexperienced, far left candidate and dividing ourselves. After being divided, we find out that the leading candidate is now un-electable. McCain is starting to look better every day. With this crap hanging on Obama and a divided Dem party, McCain should have no problem in November.
lol. A defeatist if ever there was one. I'm a Republican and I would still vote for this guy over McCain. The truth is these are not his words but his pastor's word. If you want to hang him because of guilt by association, go ahead. But don't pretend that you were going to vote for him in the first place.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: RY62
You can try to twist what I say and divert from the topic at hand if you want. I've had my rant and the fact remains...Obama is the loser. The average American voters will never go for this shit. He and his followers can try to spin it any way they want but the truth is out and it's not going away.

The Democratic party seems to enjoy being the losers. Democrats should have had an absolute lock on this election but had to blow it by pushing an unknown, inexperienced, far left candidate and dividing ourselves. After being divided, we find out that the leading candidate is now un-electable. McCain is starting to look better every day. With this crap hanging on Obama and a divided Dem party, McCain should have no problem in November.
You know what I like about being a Democrat? When we run into the walls, we do it at full speed. I think Obama is being Swiftboated with this minister story, which was pretty inevitable, but for better or worse, we've got at least one real candidate in this race. Whatever Obama's flaws, he's a guy with some good ideas and a pretty positive outlook on what we can do as a country. He might not be the perfect candidate, he might not be the candidate most likely to win...but he might be the RIGHT person to lead this country.

One thing I've never liked about the Republican party as a whole is that they're too good at politics. Watching them square off against the Democrats is sometimes like watching the Dallas Cowboys play against some fraternity Ultimate Frisbee team. Look at McCain, he's like a candidate designed by committee...everybody puts in a good political trait and he turns into absolutely nothing at all. That may work to win the election, but that's horse race crap...and shame on us for thinking that's the same thing as picking a good person to lead this country. We're not Obama's campaign managers, why are we talking about electability? We should be asking whether or not we think the candidate in question is a good person to lead the country. If so, we vote for 'em...if not, we don't.
 

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
773
32
91
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: RY62
You can try to twist what I say and divert from the topic at hand if you want. I've had my rant and the fact remains...Obama is the loser. The average American voters will never go for this shit. He and his followers can try to spin it any way they want but the truth is out and it's not going away.

The Democratic party seems to enjoy being the losers. Democrats should have had an absolute lock on this election but had to blow it by pushing an unknown, inexperienced, far left candidate and dividing ourselves. After being divided, we find out that the leading candidate is now un-electable. McCain is starting to look better every day. With this crap hanging on Obama and a divided Dem party, McCain should have no problem in November.
lol. A defeatist if ever there was one. I'm a Republican and I would still vote for this guy over McCain. The truth is these are not his words but his pastor's word. If you want to hang him because of guilt by association, go ahead. But don't pretend that you were going to vote for him in the first place.
The "Guilt by Association" spin is not going to work. I understand why the MSM is desparately try to put this to bed with that talking point but the guilt is all over Obama and anyone that is not a brainwashed cultist follower is not actually buying it. All he had was his speaches and his image of being a "Different Kind Of Politician". I'm tired of the bullshit speaches and now the image is shot to hell too.

No, I didn't intend to vote for him and i never pretended that I would. I said that if he got the nod, I'd go to McCain. I've made it clear for a long time that I always thought he was full of crap and the "Change" he was talking about was not going to be a good change.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: RY62
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: RY62
You can try to twist what I say and divert from the topic at hand if you want. I've had my rant and the fact remains...Obama is the loser. The average American voters will never go for this shit. He and his followers can try to spin it any way they want but the truth is out and it's not going away.

The Democratic party seems to enjoy being the losers. Democrats should have had an absolute lock on this election but had to blow it by pushing an unknown, inexperienced, far left candidate and dividing ourselves. After being divided, we find out that the leading candidate is now un-electable. McCain is starting to look better every day. With this crap hanging on Obama and a divided Dem party, McCain should have no problem in November.
lol. A defeatist if ever there was one. I'm a Republican and I would still vote for this guy over McCain. The truth is these are not his words but his pastor's word. If you want to hang him because of guilt by association, go ahead. But don't pretend that you were going to vote for him in the first place.
The "Guilt by Association" spin is not going to work. I understand why the MSM is desparately try to put this to bed with that talking point but the guilt is all over Obama and anyone that is not a brainwashed cultist follower is not actually buying it. All he had was his speaches and his image of being a "Different Kind Of Politician". I'm tired of the bullshit speaches and now the image is shot to hell too.

No, I didn't intend to vote for him and i never pretended that I would. I said that if he got the nod, I'd go to McCain. I've made it clear for a long time that I always thought he was full of crap and the "Change" he was talking about was not going to be a good change.
Thank you for your opinion.
 

Bumrush99

Diamond Member
Jun 14, 2004
3,334
194
106
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: RY62
You can try to twist what I say and divert from the topic at hand if you want. I've had my rant and the fact remains...Obama is the loser. The average American voters will never go for this shit. He and his followers can try to spin it any way they want but the truth is out and it's not going away.

The Democratic party seems to enjoy being the losers. Democrats should have had an absolute lock on this election but had to blow it by pushing an unknown, inexperienced, far left candidate and dividing ourselves. After being divided, we find out that the leading candidate is now un-electable. McCain is starting to look better every day. With this crap hanging on Obama and a divided Dem party, McCain should have no problem in November.
You know what I like about being a Democrat? When we run into the walls, we do it at full speed. I think Obama is being Swiftboated with this minister story, which was pretty inevitable, but for better or worse, we've got at least one real candidate in this race. Whatever Obama's flaws, he's a guy with some good ideas and a pretty positive outlook on what we can do as a country. He might not be the perfect candidate, he might not be the candidate most likely to win...but he might be the RIGHT person to lead this country.

One thing I've never liked about the Republican party as a whole is that they're too good at politics. Watching them square off against the Democrats is sometimes like watching the Dallas Cowboys play against some fraternity Ultimate Frisbee team. Look at McCain, he's like a candidate designed by committee...everybody puts in a good political trait and he turns into absolutely nothing at all. That may work to win the election, but that's horse race crap...and shame on us for thinking that's the same thing as picking a good person to lead this country. We're not Obama's campaign managers, why are we talking about electability? We should be asking whether or not we think the candidate in question is a good person to lead the country. If so, we vote for 'em...if not, we don't.
Explain to me how Obama is being "switfboated"? He is quoted as saying that this scumbag preacher is his "moral compass" and that he has been a loyal member of this intolerant "church" for over 20 years, where he got married and had his kids baptized. To sit here and think that constitutes swiftboating greatly reduces the heroism of Kerry and has NOTHING to do with this situation.
Two weeks ago you called me a Republican "shill" for thinking this was an important issue, does your use of the word "swiftboating" still imply that you think that this issue says nothing about Obama or the people he has associated with? Or does this make him a "real candidate"? Let me tell you most Americans will not be tolerant of a "real" candidate that has a "moral compass" that is nothing but immoral in his beliefs. More like swerving in to a wall full speed when the finish line is right in front of you.

 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,623
1,109
126
Hmm. Tempest in a teapot anyone?

I read the entire OP, and researched this myself.

Cliffs :

Obama, at no time that I've been able to determine, has said anything directly racist or intolerant, or even close to it.

His minister hasn't either, his primary message is that the black community should support itself through faith and works, and that they have a responsibility to each other. He's very much a product of the 60s civil rights movement. His main failure is that he's fighting battles that were chiefly finished 40 years ago. At the same time, racism still exists, and will likely outlive us all. So Obama's assocication with this man doesn't bother me in the least.

Farakkhan, and the other loonies referenced in the article, are on the level of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. An asshole is an asshole regardless of color, but even so, they all have significant groups of people that support them. I find it unfortunate that there is even this tenuous and indirect link from a jackoff like Farakkhan to the minister to Obama, but you must remember that Obama has already publicly denounced those types of hateful messages.

Compare and contrast this to the situation with McCain. McCain famously denounced the far-right CC in the past, and really laid it on after Pat and Jerry made some of the most vile and hateful remarks in recent memory. They basically blamed domestic groups that don't agree with their message of hate for the 9/11 attacks. No, it wasn't terrorists that killed all those people. It was God, killing them because of the ACLU, gays, etc. Excuse the fuck out of me, but if God cared so much about punishing the ACLU, gays, etc, why didn't he kill them directly instead of several thousand innocent men, women, and children in the attacks? Pure idiocy of the highest degree. But no, there are enough zombie idiot fucktards in this country that Pat and Jerry still command the attention of that zealous core. So flash-forward to more recent times, and McCain is actually speaking to these men, and making speeches at their institutions. For Obama to have sunk this low, he'd have to be stumping at a Farakkan facility. The only thing anyone should have to say to Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell is 'Fuck you very much'.
 

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
773
32
91
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Hmm. Tempest in a teapot anyone?

I read the entire OP, and researched this myself.

Cliffs :

Obama, at no time that I've been able to determine, has said anything directly racist or intolerant, or even close to it.

His minister hasn't either
, his primary message is that the black community should support itself through faith and works, and that they have a responsibility to each other. He's very much a product of the 60s civil rights movement. His main failure is that he's fighting battles that were chiefly finished 40 years ago. At the same time, racism still exists, and will likely outlive us all. So Obama's assocication with this man doesn't bother me in the least.
During your "research" you might have missed a few things. Here are a few of Rev Wrights quotes. Some of these could possibly be considered as racist or intolerant.

In a sermon delivered at Howard University, Barack Obama's longtime minister, friend and adviser blamed America for starting the AIDS virus .."The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color."

"In one of his sermons, Wright said, ?Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run! We [in the U.S.] Believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God.?

"White America, U.S. of KKKA ...."

Quote Source Newsmax: ?Wright's strong sentiments were echoed in the Sunday morning service attended by NewsMax. Wright laced into America's establishment, blaming the "white arrogance" of America's Caucasian majority for the woes of the world, especially the oppression suffered by blacks. To underscore the point he refers to the country as the "United States of White America." Many in the congregation, including Obama, nodded in apparent agreement as these statements were made.

"Black men turning on black men,,,that is fighting the wrong enemy. You both are the primary targets in an oppressive society that sees both of you as a dangerous threat."

"White America got their wake-up call after 9/11. White America and the Western world came to realize people of color had not gone away, faded in the woodwork, or just disappeared as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring black concerns."

?We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batter an eye.? On the Sunday after the attacks, Dr. Wright blamed America.

Wright on the disappearance of Natalee Holloway: "Black women are being raped daily in Africa. One white girl from Alabama gets drunk at a graduation trip to Aruba, goes off and gives it up while in a foreign country and that stays in the news for months.

Sen. Barack Obama's pastor says blacks should not sing "God Bless America" but "God damn America."

"God Damn America, That's in the Bible...for killing innocent people." " God Damn America for treating her citizens as less than human. "God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme.?

?Barack knows what it means living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people. Hillary would never know that.?

?Hillary ain?t never been called a *****. Hillary has never had a people defined as a non-person.?

?Hillary is married to Bill, and Bill has been good to us. No he ain?t! Bill did us, just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty.?

"Jesus was a poor black man" "Jesus taught me how to hate my enemies ?

 

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