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Disturbing Article about Obama and his minister

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rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Originally posted by: ericlp
Personally I could care less what church a person goes too....

If this country was not so tied up on religion this wouldn't even be an issue.... Who cares what he believes in... It's obvious that if this nation was not so addicted to religion like a bunch of crack prostitutes then this wouldn't even made the headlines. It just goes to show how bad it really is...Or how bad it really has gotten. Sad...Sad...sad....

What if we had an atheist for a president? I bet you'd be all over that huh?

As for McCain? Well, probably better then bush but not by much... If he should win he will ride the religious voting christain bus on the way to the polls! Vote for him or your gonna burn in hell! Sheesh...
If Wright only preaches religion, this wouldn't be an issue. But the problem is he also mix radical political/racial ideology into his sermons, and American needs to know if Obama believes those ideology.

Obama is a smart guy and he is a good speaker, and he knows what to say in a presidential election. But what really matters is what he believes deep down in his heart. And if that's drastically different from Wright's beliefs like he claims, why he keeps going to Wright's church and have Wright be such an important person in his life.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
37
91
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: ericlp
Personally I could care less what church a person goes too....

If this country was not so tied up on religion this wouldn't even be an issue.... Who cares what he believes in... It's obvious that if this nation was not so addicted to religion like a bunch of crack prostitutes then this wouldn't even made the headlines. It just goes to show how bad it really is...Or how bad it really has gotten. Sad...Sad...sad....

What if we had an atheist for a president? I bet you'd be all over that huh?

As for McCain? Well, probably better then bush but not by much... If he should win he will ride the religious voting christain bus on the way to the polls! Vote for him or your gonna burn in hell! Sheesh...
If Wright only preaches religion, this wouldn't be an issue. But the problem is he also mix radical political/racial ideology into his sermons, and American needs to know if Obama believes those ideology.

Obama is a smart guy and he is a good speaker, and he knows what to say in a presidential election. But what really matters is what he believes deep down in his heart. And if that's drastically different from Wright's beliefs like he claims, why he keeps going to Wright's church and have Wright be such an important person in his life.
Do you attend church service or any service for that matter? It is impossible to separate politics from religion. Absolutely impossible. Add in social issues and you're always going to have controversy. Everywhere in the bible, social, political, and religious issues are mixed perfectly. The very basis of religion is political in nature.

 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: ericlp
Personally I could care less what church a person goes too....

If this country was not so tied up on religion this wouldn't even be an issue.... Who cares what he believes in... It's obvious that if this nation was not so addicted to religion like a bunch of crack prostitutes then this wouldn't even made the headlines. It just goes to show how bad it really is...Or how bad it really has gotten. Sad...Sad...sad....

What if we had an atheist for a president? I bet you'd be all over that huh?

As for McCain? Well, probably better then bush but not by much... If he should win he will ride the religious voting christain bus on the way to the polls! Vote for him or your gonna burn in hell! Sheesh...
If Wright only preaches religion, this wouldn't be an issue. But the problem is he also mix radical political/racial ideology into his sermons, and American needs to know if Obama believes those ideology.

Obama is a smart guy and he is a good speaker, and he knows what to say in a presidential election. But what really matters is what he believes deep down in his heart. And if that's drastically different from Wright's beliefs like he claims, why he keeps going to Wright's church and have Wright be such an important person in his life.
Do you attend church service or any service for that matter? It is impossible to separate politics from religion. Absolutely impossible. Add in social issues and you're always going to have controversy. Everywhere in the bible, social, political, and religious issues are mixed perfectly. The very basis of religion is political in nature.
Well, the Catholic church I go to never talk about political issues in sermons, even controversial stuff like abortion. I know where they stand on that, but all the paster talk is everyday life and how God affects it, never the political stuff.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
37
91
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: ericlp
Personally I could care less what church a person goes too....

If this country was not so tied up on religion this wouldn't even be an issue.... Who cares what he believes in... It's obvious that if this nation was not so addicted to religion like a bunch of crack prostitutes then this wouldn't even made the headlines. It just goes to show how bad it really is...Or how bad it really has gotten. Sad...Sad...sad....

What if we had an atheist for a president? I bet you'd be all over that huh?

As for McCain? Well, probably better then bush but not by much... If he should win he will ride the religious voting christain bus on the way to the polls! Vote for him or your gonna burn in hell! Sheesh...
If Wright only preaches religion, this wouldn't be an issue. But the problem is he also mix radical political/racial ideology into his sermons, and American needs to know if Obama believes those ideology.

Obama is a smart guy and he is a good speaker, and he knows what to say in a presidential election. But what really matters is what he believes deep down in his heart. And if that's drastically different from Wright's beliefs like he claims, why he keeps going to Wright's church and have Wright be such an important person in his life.
Do you attend church service or any service for that matter? It is impossible to separate politics from religion. Absolutely impossible. Add in social issues and you're always going to have controversy. Everywhere in the bible, social, political, and religious issues are mixed perfectly. The very basis of religion is political in nature.
Well, the Catholic church I go to never talk about political issues in sermons, even controversial stuff like abortion. I know where they stand on that, but all the paster talk is everyday life and how God affects it, never the political stuff.
Social or political issues never creep up? Wow, that pastor must have tremendous restraint. That's a rarity.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Skoorb
After thinking on this longer and the comic nature of referring to bill clinton on monica as "riding dirty" notwithstanding, I have to say that Obama's inspiration and attendence of a church with this pastor is of concern. It really is, the guy is a bit whacked. Even if obama doesn't agree with it all, he must agree with most or else he'd simply not be attending the church.

That said, some of what the pastor says is actually true, despite it not being PC. I feel, for example, that the US' foreign involvement was one of the reasons al qaeda decided to execute 911 (and if you don't believe that, I think the CIA has concluded the same thing, so take the argument up with them). I think he also said HIV was created by the government or a government, which is also true. Actually I'm kidding there that's fvcking insane. I guess the guy is hit-or-miss.
There's a lot of ignorance in the AA community, primarily due to a lack of education. Unfortunately, some of these beliefs are seen as facts. In hindsight Obama would've been better served going to a more docile pastor. This pastor looks like a very angry man. He's also old and you know how old people think they're always right and everybody else is wrong (there's no talking to them, lest you want to come across as being disrespectful). So, while he may have said some things that Obama agreed with. When it came to disagreements, Obama would've had no chance to convince him otherwise. Hence, that Uncle analogy is apt considering you will never change their mind but you still respect them in some ways.
Your ignoring the fact that Obama continued to donate to him ($20,000 last year according to his tax records). He must have not been too upset with him. Remember, you can't pick who your uncle is but you sure as hell can pick who your pastor is.
You are right. But Obama didn't donate to the pastor, that would be illegal. He donated to the church, which was probably doing the kind of work Obama was doing when he was helping out the poor.
And who leads the church and is most instrumental in setting it's policies? The pastor does and he draws his living from the church. The more his supporters like what he says, the more they are willing to donate, so supporting the church is supporting the pastor.

I believe I read someplace that in order to join this church you had to sign something agreeing to support the church policies?
Church policies is helping the poor. You make it sound as if this is some demonic church that eats babies. The pastor may be an ignorant jackass but it doesn't mean he doesn't mean well.
Don't forget, that ignorant ass (your words) is Obama's moral compass.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
37
91
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Skoorb
After thinking on this longer and the comic nature of referring to bill clinton on monica as "riding dirty" notwithstanding, I have to say that Obama's inspiration and attendence of a church with this pastor is of concern. It really is, the guy is a bit whacked. Even if obama doesn't agree with it all, he must agree with most or else he'd simply not be attending the church.

That said, some of what the pastor says is actually true, despite it not being PC. I feel, for example, that the US' foreign involvement was one of the reasons al qaeda decided to execute 911 (and if you don't believe that, I think the CIA has concluded the same thing, so take the argument up with them). I think he also said HIV was created by the government or a government, which is also true. Actually I'm kidding there that's fvcking insane. I guess the guy is hit-or-miss.
There's a lot of ignorance in the AA community, primarily due to a lack of education. Unfortunately, some of these beliefs are seen as facts. In hindsight Obama would've been better served going to a more docile pastor. This pastor looks like a very angry man. He's also old and you know how old people think they're always right and everybody else is wrong (there's no talking to them, lest you want to come across as being disrespectful). So, while he may have said some things that Obama agreed with. When it came to disagreements, Obama would've had no chance to convince him otherwise. Hence, that Uncle analogy is apt considering you will never change their mind but you still respect them in some ways.
Your ignoring the fact that Obama continued to donate to him ($20,000 last year according to his tax records). He must have not been too upset with him. Remember, you can't pick who your uncle is but you sure as hell can pick who your pastor is.
You are right. But Obama didn't donate to the pastor, that would be illegal. He donated to the church, which was probably doing the kind of work Obama was doing when he was helping out the poor.
And who leads the church and is most instrumental in setting it's policies? The pastor does and he draws his living from the church. The more his supporters like what he says, the more they are willing to donate, so supporting the church is supporting the pastor.

I believe I read someplace that in order to join this church you had to sign something agreeing to support the church policies?
Church policies is helping the poor. You make it sound as if this is some demonic church that eats babies. The pastor may be an ignorant jackass but it doesn't mean he doesn't mean well.
Yeah, that ignorant ass (your words) is Obama's moral compass.
He is. Perhaps there is more than meets the eye. Perhaps not. I don't know.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,576
431
126
Barack Obama: On My Faith and My Church

The pastor of my church, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who recently preached his last sermon and is in the process of retiring, has touched off a firestorm over the last few days. He's drawn attention as the result of some inflammatory and appalling remarks he made about our country, our politics, and my political opponents.

Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue.

Because these particular statements by Rev. Wright are so contrary to my own life and beliefs, a number of people have legitimately raised questions about the nature of my relationship with Rev. Wright and my membership in the church. Let me therefore provide some context.

As I have written about in my books, I first joined Trinity United Church of Christ nearly twenty years ago. I knew Rev. Wright as someone who served this nation with honor as a United States Marine, as a respected biblical scholar, and as someone who taught or lectured at seminaries across the country, from Union Theological Seminary to the University of Chicago. He also led a diverse congregation that was and still is a pillar of the South Side and the entire city of Chicago. It's a congregation that does not merely preach social justice but acts it out each day, through ministries ranging from housing the homeless to reaching out to those with HIV/AIDS.

Most importantly, Rev. Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life. In other words, he has never been my political advisor; he's been my pastor. And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn.

The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation. When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.

Let me repeat what I've said earlier. All of the statements that have been the subject of controversy are ones that I vehemently condemn. They in no way reflect my attitudes and directly contradict my profound love for this country.

With Rev. Wright's retirement and the ascension of my new pastor, Rev. Otis Moss, III, Michelle and I look forward to continuing a relationship with a church that has done so much good. And while Rev. Wright's statements have pained and angered me, I believe that Americans will judge me not on the basis of what someone else said, but on the basis of who I am and what I believe in; on my values, judgment and experience to be President of the United States.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: ericlp
Personally I could care less what church a person goes too....

If this country was not so tied up on religion this wouldn't even be an issue.... Who cares what he believes in... It's obvious that if this nation was not so addicted to religion like a bunch of crack prostitutes then this wouldn't even made the headlines. It just goes to show how bad it really is...Or how bad it really has gotten. Sad...Sad...sad....

What if we had an atheist for a president? I bet you'd be all over that huh?

As for McCain? Well, probably better then bush but not by much... If he should win he will ride the religious voting christain bus on the way to the polls! Vote for him or your gonna burn in hell! Sheesh...
If Wright only preaches religion, this wouldn't be an issue. But the problem is he also mix radical political/racial ideology into his sermons, and American needs to know if Obama believes those ideology.

Obama is a smart guy and he is a good speaker, and he knows what to say in a presidential election. But what really matters is what he believes deep down in his heart. And if that's drastically different from Wright's beliefs like he claims, why he keeps going to Wright's church and have Wright be such an important person in his life.
Do you attend church service or any service for that matter? It is impossible to separate politics from religion. Absolutely impossible. Add in social issues and you're always going to have controversy. Everywhere in the bible, social, political, and religious issues are mixed perfectly. The very basis of religion is political in nature.
Well, the Catholic church I go to never talk about political issues in sermons, even controversial stuff like abortion. I know where they stand on that, but all the paster talk is everyday life and how God affects it, never the political stuff.
Social or political issues never creep up? Wow, that pastor must have tremendous restraint. That's a rarity.
maybe it's a catholic thing, but every church I've ever attended has been the same way.

if the priest at my church started talking about how black people are ruining America... yeah, I'd find a new church.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
A passage from Obama's book "Dreams of my Father" refering to the first sermon he had ever heard from Wright:

The title of Reverend Wright?s sermon that morning was ?The Audacity of Hope.? He began with a passage from the Book of Samuel?the story of Hannah, who, barren and taunted by her rivals, had wept and shaken in prayer before her God. The story reminded him, he said, of a sermon a fellow pastor had preached at a conference some years before, in which the pastor described going to a museum and being confronted by a painting title Hope.

?The painting depicts a harpist,? Reverend Wright explained, ?a woman who at first glance appears to be sitting atop a great mountain. Until you take a closer look and see that the woman is bruised and bloodied, dressed in tattered rags, the harp reduced to a single frayed string. Your eye is then drawn down to the scene below, down to the valley below, where everywhere are the ravages of famine, the drumbeat of war, a world groaning under strife and deprivation.

?It is this world, a world where cruise ships throw away more food in a day than most residents of Port-au-Prince see in a year, where white folks? greed runs a world in need, apartheid in one hemisphere, apathy in another hemisphere?That?s the world! On which hope sits!?

And so it went, a meditation on a fallen world. While the boys next to me doodled on their church bulletin, Reverend Wright spoke of Sharpsville and Hiroshima, the callousness of policy makers in the White House and in the State House. As the sermon unfolded, though, the stories of strife became more prosaic, the pain more immediate. The reverend spoke of the hardship that the congregation would face tomorrow, the pain of those far from the mountaintop, worrying about paying the light bill?[/b]
[/quote]

Sound familar?? It sound like the same rascist double talk to me.

http://corner.nationalreview.c...I2OWU2NmE3OWY5YjYxMjQ=
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
37
91
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
A passage from Obama's book "Dreams of my Father" refering to the first sermon he had ever heard from Wright:

The title of Reverend Wright?s sermon that morning was ?The Audacity of Hope.? He began with a passage from the Book of Samuel?the story of Hannah, who, barren and taunted by her rivals, had wept and shaken in prayer before her God. The story reminded him, he said, of a sermon a fellow pastor had preached at a conference some years before, in which the pastor described going to a museum and being confronted by a painting title Hope.

?The painting depicts a harpist,? Reverend Wright explained, ?a woman who at first glance appears to be sitting atop a great mountain. Until you take a closer look and see that the woman is bruised and bloodied, dressed in tattered rags, the harp reduced to a single frayed string. Your eye is then drawn down to the scene below, down to the valley below, where everywhere are the ravages of famine, the drumbeat of war, a world groaning under strife and deprivation.

?It is this world, a world where cruise ships throw away more food in a day than most residents of Port-au-Prince see in a year, where white folks? greed runs a world in need, apartheid in one hemisphere, apathy in another hemisphere?That?s the world! On which hope sits!?

And so it went, a meditation on a fallen world. While the boys next to me doodled on their church bulletin, Reverend Wright spoke of Sharpsville and Hiroshima, the callousness of policy makers in the White House and in the State House. As the sermon unfolded, though, the stories of strife became more prosaic, the pain more immediate. The reverend spoke of the hardship that the congregation would face tomorrow, the pain of those far from the mountaintop, worrying about paying the light bill?[/b]
Sound familar?? It sound like the same rascist double talk to me.

http://corner.nationalreview.c...I2OWU2NmE3OWY5YjYxMjQ=[/quote]

Queasay already posted the EXACT same passage and it's been discussed.
 

indigo196

Member
Oct 14, 2007
47
0
0
Originally posted by: Dari
The very basis of religion is political in nature.
The very basis of Religion is politics... but it is not the very basis of religion.

Obama still has to explain why he would associate with this kind of Religion given its racist/radical nature.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: indigo196
Originally posted by: Dari
The very basis of religion is political in nature.
The very basis of Religion is politics... but it is not the very basis of religion.

Obama still has to explain why he would associate with this kind of Religion given its racist/radical nature.
He DID explain it, he said that the sermons he heard were NOT radical or racist, and that he disagrees strongly with the views expressed in the clips making their way around the Internet. What more does he have to explain?
 

chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,614
218
106
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: indigo196
Originally posted by: Dari
The very basis of religion is political in nature.
The very basis of Religion is politics... but it is not the very basis of religion.

Obama still has to explain why he would associate with this kind of Religion given its racist/radical nature.
He DID explain it, he said that the sermons he heard were NOT radical or racist, and that he disagrees strongly with the views expressed in the clips making their way around the Internet. What more does he have to explain?
Obama listened to Wright's sermons on tape in college

Obama is backtracking hard.

In his 1993 memoir "Dreams from My Father," Obama recounts in vivid detail his first meeting with Wright in 1985. The pastor warned the community activist that getting involved with Trinity might turn off other black clergy because of the church's radical reputation.

It is hard to believe that in 20 years of sitting in the church and listening to his sermons that he had no idea. He sat in Church BUT DID NOT INHALE!

If he still didn't know, I guess he only found out about the blame America for 9/11 conveniently right before he announced for the Presidency 6 years later and dis-invited Rev. Wright from giving his invocation


COOPER: Did you not know, though, that, I mean, a couple days after 9/11, he said, you know, this was America's chickens coming home to roost, a result of what he called American terrorism around the world?

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: I mean, you may not have been there, but have you -- you must have heard that he had said these things.

OBAMA: You know, I confess that I did not hear about this until -- until I started running for president.

very convenient

Even after hearing about "this" Obama still put Rev. Wright on his African American Religious Leadership Committee.

And he is running on his judgment.
 

alphatarget1

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2001
5,710
0
76
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: indigo196
Originally posted by: Dari
The very basis of religion is political in nature.
The very basis of Religion is politics... but it is not the very basis of religion.

Obama still has to explain why he would associate with this kind of Religion given its racist/radical nature.
He DID explain it, he said that the sermons he heard were NOT radical or racist, and that he disagrees strongly with the views expressed in the clips making their way around the Internet. What more does he have to explain?
Do you really believe that being in the church for 20 years he would not have heard anything? That is complete and utter BS. Obama is just another politician hack, move along, nothing to see here.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: indigo196
Originally posted by: Dari
The very basis of religion is political in nature.
The very basis of Religion is politics... but it is not the very basis of religion.

Obama still has to explain why he would associate with this kind of Religion given its racist/radical nature.
He DID explain it, he said that the sermons he heard were NOT radical or racist, and that he disagrees strongly with the views expressed in the clips making their way around the Internet. What more does he have to explain?
Do you really believe that being in the church for 20 years he would not have heard anything? That is complete and utter BS. Obama is just another politician hack, move along, nothing to see here.
The problem is that this story is making my BS detector go crazy. For all the noise and accusation being thrown around, the problem is that it just doesn't add up the way you'd like it to. At the end of the day, all arguing aside, Obama was either affected by some of the more racist things the minister said or he wasn't. Given everything Obama has said and done up to this point, I just don't see him as a closet racist or some sort of religious radical. Everything else is just details.
 

x26

Senior member
Sep 17, 2007
734
15
81
Originally posted by: Codewiz
Many people have questioned Obama's ties to his church. His church is pretty far out there. It was even rumored that his advisors told him to distance himself from it.
He has been a "member" of that church for 20 years...

 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,864
83
91
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: indigo196
Originally posted by: Dari
The very basis of religion is political in nature.
The very basis of Religion is politics... but it is not the very basis of religion.

Obama still has to explain why he would associate with this kind of Religion given its racist/radical nature.
He DID explain it, he said that the sermons he heard were NOT radical or racist, and that he disagrees strongly with the views expressed in the clips making their way around the Internet. What more does he have to explain?
Do you really believe that being in the church for 20 years he would not have heard anything? That is complete and utter BS. Obama is just another politician hack, move along, nothing to see here.
The problem is that this story is making my BS detector go crazy. For all the noise and accusation being thrown around, the problem is that it just doesn't add up the way you'd like it to. At the end of the day, all arguing aside, Obama was either affected by some of the more racist things the minister said or he wasn't. Given everything Obama has said and done up to this point, I just don't see him as a closet racist or some sort of religious radical. Everything else is just details.
your bs detector needs adjusting. what obama has said in public doesn't match his actions in private. and when that happens, you have a serious problem. a real progressive person wouldn't spend 20 years of their life associating, seeking advice from and supporting such a viciously bigoted person. that the paster called farrakhan an honest and great man of integrity and gave him an award shows exactly what his sympathies are. if all the players in this scandal were republicans and the paster was praising the grand dragon of the kkk i dont think anyone would give them the benefit of the doubt at all. its just too clear. in such a situation any decent person would have distanced themselves from the hate mongers 20 years ago. that he didn't shows his true character. he lacks spine, has no judgement, or he was amoral, or he was sympathetic. every possibility is damning. and now suddenly when its convenient he tells us he didn't know. he is unconvincing to say the least, i think he's lying to our face. all his carefully packaged words and image mean nothing in the face of this. it shows exactly how shallow he is. he cannot be trusted.
 

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
773
32
91
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: indigo196
Originally posted by: Dari
The very basis of religion is political in nature.
The very basis of Religion is politics... but it is not the very basis of religion.

Obama still has to explain why he would associate with this kind of Religion given its racist/radical nature.
He DID explain it, he said that the sermons he heard were NOT radical or racist, and that he disagrees strongly with the views expressed in the clips making their way around the Internet. What more does he have to explain?
Do you really believe that being in the church for 20 years he would not have heard anything? That is complete and utter BS. Obama is just another politician hack, move along, nothing to see here.
The problem is that this story is making my BS detector go crazy. For all the noise and accusation being thrown around, the problem is that it just doesn't add up the way you'd like it to. At the end of the day, all arguing aside, Obama was either affected by some of the more racist things the minister said or he wasn't. Given everything Obama has said and done up to this point, I just don't see him as a closet racist or some sort of religious radical. Everything else is just details.
The only bullshit is that so many are too blind to see what is right in front of their face. The Obama camp opened this door wide when they accused Geraldine Ferraro of being racist and caused her to step down. Now that was a rediculous charge. By doing this, he asked to be scrutinized and evidence has turned up that he is a racist. He found this racist church 23 years ago. He continued to go there and became a member. Evidence has shown that he has heard these hateful, racist sermons )though he lied and said he hadn't) and not only did he continue to be a member but he continued to support the Reverends racist rants by donating large amounts of money. His wife has shown that she agrees with the Reverend by echoing some of the same rants.

To think that Obama does not agree with Wright or is not influenced by him is foolish.
Obama is pushing legislation to reduce the penalties on crack cocaine possession because "there are too many young black men in our prisons". It's not enough to tell these young black men that if they don't do the crime they won't be in prison.

Reverend Wright's view:
On the criminal justice system, Rev Wright explains that "the brothers are in prison" largely because of their skin color. "Consider the 'three strikes law,'" he elaborates. "There is a higher jail sentencing for crack than for cocaine because more African Americans get crack than do cocaine." Notwithstanding Wright's implication that the harsh anti-crack penalties were instituted by racist legislators for the purpose of incarcerating as many blacks as possible, the Congressional Record shows that such was not at all the case. In 1986, when the strict, federal anti-crack legislation was being debated, the Congressional Black Caucus (CBC)?deeply concerned about the degree to which crack was decimating the black community?strongly supported the legislation and actually pressed for even harsher penalties. In fact, a few years earlier CBC members had pushed President Reagan to create the Office of National Drug Control Policy

One of Obama's "present" votes was on 1999 legislation that would have required teens 15 and older to be tried as adults for firing weapons on or near school grounds. He was among five African-American senators voting present to undermine the passage of this legislation. "I'm for getting guns off the streets, but I'm not for treating these juveniles as adults," said state Sen. Rickey Hendon (D-Chicago), who voted "present" with Obama. He was afraid this law might cause more young black men to go to prison, young black men who fire weapons on or near school grounds.


 

daveymark

Lifer
Sep 15, 2003
10,576
1
0
Originally posted by: x26
Originally posted by: Codewiz
Many people have questioned Obama's ties to his church. His church is pretty far out there. It was even rumored that his advisors told him to distance himself from it.
He has been a "member" of that church for 20 years...
bingo. he can't distance himself from it. All he can do is "suddenly" have a change of heart. I wonder if this is going to change the minds of obamabots - if he decides to all of a sudden decide to admonish his own pastor, then he's doing it to pander to get votes

so much for "change"

just more of the same
 

alphatarget1

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2001
5,710
0
76
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
he is unconvincing to say the least, i think he's lying to our face. all his carefully packaged words and image mean nothing in the face of this. it shows exactly how shallow he is. he cannot be trusted.
QFT
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: indigo196
Originally posted by: Dari
The very basis of religion is political in nature.
The very basis of Religion is politics... but it is not the very basis of religion.

Obama still has to explain why he would associate with this kind of Religion given its racist/radical nature.
He DID explain it, he said that the sermons he heard were NOT radical or racist, and that he disagrees strongly with the views expressed in the clips making their way around the Internet. What more does he have to explain?
Do you really believe that being in the church for 20 years he would not have heard anything? That is complete and utter BS. Obama is just another politician hack, move along, nothing to see here.
The problem is that this story is making my BS detector go crazy. For all the noise and accusation being thrown around, the problem is that it just doesn't add up the way you'd like it to. At the end of the day, all arguing aside, Obama was either affected by some of the more racist things the minister said or he wasn't. Given everything Obama has said and done up to this point, I just don't see him as a closet racist or some sort of religious radical. Everything else is just details.
your bs detector needs adjusting. what obama has said in public doesn't match his actions in private. and when that happens, you have a serious problem. a real progressive person wouldn't spend 20 years of their life associating, seeking advice from and supporting such a viciously bigoted person. that the paster called farrakhan an honest and great man of integrity and gave him an award shows exactly what his sympathies are. if all the players in this scandal were republicans and the paster was praising the grand dragon of the kkk i dont think anyone would give them the benefit of the doubt at all. its just too clear. in such a situation any decent person would have distanced themselves from the hate mongers 20 years ago. that he didn't shows his true character. he lacks spine, has no judgement, or he was amoral, or he was sympathetic. every possibility is damning. and now suddenly when its convenient he tells us he didn't know. he is unconvincing to say the least, i think he's lying to our face. all his carefully packaged words and image mean nothing in the face of this. it shows exactly how shallow he is. he cannot be trusted.
But that's my problem..."every possibility" proves that you don't really KNOW what's going on, you start from a conclusion you like (Obama is a racist) then try to come up with some way that the current "scandal" can support that conclusion. We don't have enough details to conclude anything, which leaves all the details of why Obama was a member of that church or said the minister was a spiritual adviser open to interpretation. We can all come up with explanations for these events that support our particular political bent, and absent any additional facts, it's hard to tell who's really right.

Which is why I'm saying that it doesn't really matter. I'm not writing Obama's biography, the only detail I care about is whether or not he'd make a good President. Absent some guilt by association arguments, I see no evidence he'd be a racist or a black supremacist...end of story. I find it difficult in the extreme to believe that this minister had a strong influence on Obama's political views, yet somehow that influence has NEVER manifest itself in things Obama says or does. The story just doesn't make sense.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: daveymark
Originally posted by: x26
Originally posted by: Codewiz
Many people have questioned Obama's ties to his church. His church is pretty far out there. It was even rumored that his advisors told him to distance himself from it.
He has been a "member" of that church for 20 years...
bingo. he can't distance himself from it. All he can do is "suddenly" have a change of heart. I wonder if this is going to change the minds of obamabots - if he decides to all of a sudden decide to admonish his own pastor, then he's doing it to pander to get votes

so much for "change"

just more of the same
He DID admonish the pastor, but how do you know what's been in his mind these past 20 years? Perhaps there's nothing sudden at all...just the focus lately due to being a Presidential candidate.

Whether you guys realize it or not, you are basically arguing that it is IMPOSSIBLE for Obama to be a member of a church where the paster has said some borderline racist things without Obama thinking the same thing. I can think of a lot of scenarios where that could happen, and since Obama hasn't shown any evidence at all that he's a racist, I have no reason to doubt his story.
 

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