Disorders that aren't disorders

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SlitheryDee

Lifer
Feb 2, 2005
17,252
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How can we, as parents, support anti drug propaganda in schools and at the same time feed our kids METH from a fucking pez dispenser? You people are crazy giving your kids that shit. "Just break it up in his yogurt. That way he won't know". Sound familiar, parents?
Also, how do you handle this if you are religious? "Sorry son, God has a plan for most kids, but he fucked you up. Here, have a Ritalin"

I think it has been demonstrated that children with true ADD have a lower rate of addiction later in life when they are administered ADD drugs properly and weaned off of them by around 18 years of age vs. children with ADD who are not properly treated.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,731
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Because it works. Because the dose is low - nowhere near what a person would use recreationally. Because the patient's health is monitored while taking it. Because advancements in drug technology have made it much harder to abuse.

The list goes on and on.

Then you must know how fast the body develops a tolerance to meth-like substances. They need more and more to get the same effect. That's a good way to condition them into becoming a well educated drug addict at age 15.
 

Mixolydian

Lifer
Nov 7, 2011
14,566
91
91
gilramirez.net
Then you must know how fast the body develops a tolerance to meth-like substances. They need more and more to get the same effect. That's a good way to condition them into becoming a well educated drug addict at age 15.

As stated earlier, the drugs are designed to deter abuse.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
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Then you must know how fast the body develops a tolerance to meth-like substances. They need more and more to get the same effect. That's a good way to condition them into becoming a well educated drug addict at age 15.

Then you must know absolutely nothing about amphetamines and other stimulants, specifically prescription stimulants.

Ask around on blue-light, erowid, and other drug forums about users of ADHD medications when they actually have diagnosed ADHD. If they don't move into recreational use, those low-level doses don't really cause tolerance issues.

And more importantly, any tolerance that is developed is simply the euphoric feeling that some prescriptions cause. Which, coincidentally, if an ADHD drug causes any kind of euphoria in a patient with ADHD, they have probably been prescribed the wrong drug for their specific case of ADHD.

How else do you explain, with proper dosing, the fact that, as you say "meth-like substances" actually causes people to calm down, when, for every other single human being most of us know, said stimulant will, wait for it, actually cause the typical stimulant responses.

They may be stimulants by nature, but they are prescribed for a very particular reason for clinical cases: they inhibit reuptake of NTs like norepinephrine, dopamine, and I think serotonin, and, in the case of amphetamines, they also induce the release of same NTs into the synaptic cleft.
For people who have normal levels, this would cause them to become very "stimulated".
For people who have some functional problem within those neurons, be it the production level of those or how well the receptors reuptake them, it essentially helps bring them to baseline.

When they are off of baseline, they may have any number of behavioral changes, depending on just what ratio of activation and production is happening in their individual brain (and consequently, this is why one stimulant like Ritalin may work better for someone, while amphetamines work better in others, and still others need non-stimulant drugs like Strattera).

When they are returned to baseline, they more closely resemble the normal behavior, which for them, is much desired and does wonders to help them accomplish what they need and/or want to do.

Baselines are established not out from the idea that, "well humans need to do this, so, that person is screwed up and a failure." Contrary to your beliefs, baselines are established based on neurology of not only humans, but also other animals. Most animals share the same neurotransmitters, and in general, the flow throughout the chain of events in the production and reuptake of most NTs is the same in both form and ratio.

The system of the brain is not radically different in humans from all other animals, the CNS is a fairly constant evolutionary development in the animal kingdom. Where humans differ is more in the amount of brain matter, the number of folds and just how much of the skull, and brain, is dedicated to tissue that is not directly involved in autonomous functioning.
This is a gross simplification, but it seems apparent that gross simplifications are necessary in this thread.

You may argue about how beneficial such abnormalities are, but it does not detract from the fact that the very point of the matter is that this abnormalities are very much obvious in neurological studies, and the abnormalities stand out not because of behavior, but because of the fundamental flaw in the flow of the essential chemical messengers in the brain, and in some cases, even the actual tissue structure.

There isn't any wiggle room, and only the willfully ignorant and those who want to justify their upbringing and demand everyone face all the challenges they faced would dare argue otherwise.

The fundamental flaw found in the brain that produces the symptoms of ADHD (regardless of what actually CAUSED that flaw), shares many, many similarities with anything ranging from Bipolar, Schizophrenia, Major Depression, General Anxiety Disorder, and, just because I want to stir the pot, the various types of behavioral addictions like gambling addiction and, yes, sex addiction.


To bring this back to the start, the key here is that NUMEROUS studies have consistently shown that, wait for it, long-term use of stimulant-class ADHD medications at therapeutic dose levels, have directly caused neural regeneration, neural growth, and even repair of malformed structures in the brain.
This has been readily observed through the various brain imaging techniques.
This is why they still continue to suggest that ADHD begins treatment in youth and, generally, can be cut once you reach adulthood. It is not that it is a childhood disease, as it is not; the long-term use simply has permanently changed the patient's brain for the better, it healed them of the disease. Successfully approached with therapy and the correct drug (which can take some time to figure out for each patient), it can be beaten.

The rising number of cases for Adult ADHD suggests that, if left untreated or undiagnosed in childhood, it does not in fact go away like some childhood issue.

Adult ADHD tends to take on a different form because these individuals have had years to tackle their problems and do everything they can to adapt so that they can succeed. These are actually great cases because they typically HAVE adapted quite well, but still struggle to truly grab life by the horns. It can still be treated, but it can take years of failure (even with significant effort) before they come to the realization that they should be reaching out for help.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,731
3,440
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As stated earlier, the drugs are designed to deter abuse.

The drugs are designed to replace parents. The drugs are designed to force a child to conform to a broken society. And most of all the drugs are designed to make lots and lots of money.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
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The fact is parents get their kids diagnosed so they can get special treatment in school and other things. No reason anyone deserves extra time on exams or extra time to study.
 

Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
12,181
35
91
How can we, as parents, support anti drug propaganda in schools and at the same time feed our kids METH from a fucking pez dispenser? You people are crazy giving your kids that shit. "Just break it up in his yogurt. That way he won't know". Sound familiar, parents?
Also, how do you handle this if you are religious? "Sorry son, God has a plan for most kids, but he fucked you up. Here, have a Ritalin"

Did you know that lidocaine your dentist gives you works similarly to cocaine? DOCTORS ARE NO BETTER THAN STREET THUGS!
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
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Did you know Methamphetamine is actually prescribed to kids with ADHD.

Desoxyn is very, very rarely prescribed for ADHD, and I suspect that anyone who still gets it prescribed has been through trials of every other ADHD treatment known to man, and that is a last ditch effort.

Methamphetamine is far more potent than amphetamine, involves more receptors, and, more importantly, is neurotoxic, unlike amphetamine. Methamphetamine directly leads to degradation of dopamine receptors.

It's not worth the trouble to take that for therapeutic reasons. And, unlike therapeutic amphetamine, there's a high risk of abuse with prescription methamphetamine.

Basically, anyone who argues against amphetamine due to the effects of methamphetamine, clearly don't understand the pharmacological differences. They are far more different than simply having a minor prefix addition to the name.
 
Apr 17, 2005
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ADHD is a tough diagnosis, most clinicians struggle with it, especially in adults. I am a 3rd yr psychiatry resident and med seeking people will come in for stimulants and generally I am very hesistant to use any controlled substances before trying non-addictive meds as well as some basic behavioral interventions. I had my biases towards ADHD as a diagnosis but after spending time on the inpatient child psychiatry floors, the ones with clear cut ADHD are not just "energetic kids". They have serious problems with their daily functioning. Overall, I do feel that ADHD is a diagnosis that is seemingly over and under diagnosed due to various reasons. As with most psychiatric illness, it seems to be on a spectrum and clinical judgment is the most important thing. Anyway, I am kind of rambling. I'm going to go back to tinkering with my fantasy football line up and finishing my beer.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,731
3,440
136
"The number of ADHD diagnoses has increased greatly in recent years due to the fact that doctors are using the disorder as a simple means to not only explain lack of focus or attention but also to allow the use of medication which can mean direct benefit for the doctor."

That sums it up. ADHD is an umbrella of symptoms and not a real disorder, claims the neuroscientist and author featured in the link below. I am confident he is right. ADHD is bullshit and not a disorder. Its a bunch of stuff that people don't like about their own kids and they call it a disorder.

http://www.collective-evolution.com...ke-disorder-claims-neurologist-turned-author/
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
176
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"The number of ADHD diagnoses has increased greatly in recent years due to the fact that doctors are using the disorder as a simple means to not only explain lack of focus or attention but also to allow the use of medication which can mean direct benefit for the doctor."

That sums it up. ADHD is an umbrella of symptoms and not a real disorder, claims the neuroscientist and author featured in the link below. I am confident he is right. ADHD is bullshit and not a disorder. Its a bunch of stuff that people don't like about their own kids and they call it a disorder.

http://www.collective-evolution.com...ke-disorder-claims-neurologist-turned-author/

Nope. You're a moron.

I had the same outlook until my own son was diagnosed with it. For years as he struggled I resisted the idea. It's real, trust me.

How to properly treat it, the fact that it's over-diagnosed, etc. that's another story.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Nope. You're a moron.

I had the same outlook until my own son was diagnosed with it. For years as he struggled I resisted the idea. It's real, trust me.

How to properly treat it, the fact that it's over-diagnosed, etc. that's another story.

It is over-diagnosed, for sure.
The experts who craft the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders), expect about 5% of the population to be affected by ADHD (of all subtypes), whereas the current diagnostic percentage seems to be above 10%.

Improperly raising children and bad diet are having more of an effect on mental health than they ought to be, which is not helping. And of course some doctors are taking the easy way out, and/or the parents are. Many of the symptoms can be misconstrued as more problematic than they are, or misinterpreted as ADHD when in fact they are pointing toward other disorders.

The idea that some of the symptoms of ADHD can be beneficial "in the wild" is not lost on me, and there is truth to the idea that it may indirectly improve successful genetic propagation, as women do go for the bold risk takers and trouble-makers. But those same symptoms, or others within the disorder, can negatively impact the ability to adapt to modern life. And as a human, it has always been most important to adapt.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,010
66
91
So OP can't stay for more than minute then forgets about it because he's currently too busy watching Sponge Bob?
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,731
3,440
136
So OP can't stay for more than minute then forgets about it because he's currently too busy watching Sponge Bob?

I'm sorry what? I was eating lunch and then dropped my keys and couldn't find them and my boss asked me for something and by the time I forgot about my keys I forgot I lost them, so now I'm looking for them.
 

Staples

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2001
4,953
119
106
Obesity has gone under the radar for so many years but apparently it is considered a disorder now (although I never hear it referred to one).
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,731
3,440
136
Obesity has gone under the radar for so many years but apparently it is considered a disorder now (although I never hear it referred to one).

Those folks are just fat. No disorder to be found. Too much fast food. I've seen this and know this.
 
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
Obesity has gone under the radar for so many years but apparently it is considered a disorder now (although I never hear it referred to one).

It is not referred to as a psychiatric disorder,but legitimate eating disorders that cause obesity do exist.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
It is not referred to as a psychiatric disorder,but legitimate eating disorders that cause obesity do exist.

And they aren't all eating disorders.

There are also the physiological disorders such as hypothyroidism (not excessively common, but far from rare), and you also have people with a host of other mental disorders that have to take medications that also, more often than not, tend to cause weight gain. It's most only the few stimulants for sleep disorders and behavioral disorders that tend to cause weight loss.

If we are talking percentages, the majority of the obese have their own initial laziness and apathy to blame. Some develop issues due to that initial weight gain that develop into other physiological disorders such as Diabetes, or mental disorders like Major Depression that, through treatment, can yet again cause more weight gain. That's not to say anything other than it is their own fault in the first place, for that majority.

To even let yourself get 50lbs+ overweight is really a shameful state (unless one has a linebacker-type body or other heavy-muscle frame, as those types are already at a higher weight class due to significant muscle mass), and far more people need to have trepidation about letting themselves reach that weight due to the acknowledged risk of further medical and mental complications.


And eating disorders have been lumped into psychiatric disorders, and have been successfully treated with psychiatric drugs typically used for Depression and Anxiety, among others, including some of the other non-stimulant ADHD options (which typically started as off-label uses of drugs that were designed for Major Depression, Anxiety, etc... some were even first designed for blood pressure control).
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,731
3,440
136
And they aren't all eating disorders.

There are also the physiological disorders such as hypothyroidism (not excessively common, but far from rare), and you also have people with a host of other mental disorders that have to take medications that also, more often than not, tend to cause weight gain. It's most only the few stimulants for sleep disorders and behavioral disorders that tend to cause weight loss.

If we are talking percentages, the majority of the obese have their own initial laziness and apathy to blame. Some develop issues due to that initial weight gain that develop into other physiological disorders such as Diabetes, or mental disorders like Major Depression that, through treatment, can yet again cause more weight gain. That's not to say anything other than it is their own fault in the first place, for that majority.

To even let yourself get 50lbs+ overweight is really a shameful state (unless one has a linebacker-type body or other heavy-muscle frame, as those types are already at a higher weight class due to significant muscle mass), and far more people need to have trepidation about letting themselves reach that weight due to the acknowledged risk of further medical and mental complications.


And eating disorders have been lumped into psychiatric disorders, and have been successfully treated with psychiatric drugs typically used for Depression and Anxiety, among others, including some of the other non-stimulant ADHD options (which typically started as off-label uses of drugs that were designed for Major Depression, Anxiety, etc... some were even first designed for blood pressure control).

Wow, amazing. Sounds like those drugs are prescribed for ALL KINDS OF SHIT, primarily for an endless cash deficiency disorder suffered by doctors and pharmaceutical companies.