Discussion about ABT

[Phynaz]

Do you recall what Idontcare said a few posts back? He mentioned that these forums are what we make of them. Dump garbage, you get a dump. The way you went about asking me this question, was garbage. Undeserving of any answer. Do it with some respect, and I'll gladly reciprocate. I will say nothing to you further until this is the case.

There's nothing wrong with what or how I asked. It was strait and to the point, without any personal attack.

I've now asked three times. I'm not about to beg for an answer. People are going to draw conclusions based upon the available information. All I have done is asked for you to add to the pool of available information.

Your constant deflecting and refusal to answer is telling a story in itself. You may want to consider if that message is the one you really want to send.


Edit:
I will give you credit where it is due. I just read your responses to Wreckage, and they are both reasonable and above board. Even defensive of actions taken here. And you didn't have to clarify a thing on ABT about what happens here.

 

[Vesku]

If I was getting free hardware from a company I'd happily add a tagline to my posts "CompanyX focus group member". I stated at the time Apoppin made his speculative post about the 7970 that it read as "this is what happens when I'm not under a NDA". It seemed in the same vein as "Semiaccurate" and "Fudzilla", especially very strongly suggesting the 7970 was not all there and that we'd see a quick respin. Something that he seems to have backed down from, judging by excerpts posted in this thread.

I feel that some of the intense video card discussions come from the heavy ragging AMD and NVIDIA get when they disappoint.

 

[Arkadrel]

Just to be clear, I dont really think there are any shills on this forum.
However....

thread like this:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2218537

Where its basically just 2 x youtube commericals.
Seriously? is that a valid thread?

 

[Idontcare]

Frankly I think IDC (or more likely, someone high up at AT) ought to privately talk to the powers that be to get the shills off this board. IDC's doing the right thing by not publicly outing them, which would generate a massive flamefest and call his own credibility into question, no doubt, and probably solve nothing.

Regarding shills, we don't tolerate them, we perma-ban them as the spammers they are when we uncover them. And we will continue to do so.

Just understand that we don't permaban on a whim or a suspicion, its the same with suspected RBM's (returning banned members) or suspected dealers in FS/T...we hold ourselves to an internal standard that requires more than just speculation and innuendo before we swing the banhammer.

If we banned everyone that was merely accused or mildly suspected of being an RBM, a dealer, or a shill then you can imagine how unfair that would be for the falsely accused.

I'm personally inclined to look at this from the other perspective which is that our community is strong enough and intelligent enough to think for itself and see through the BS if and when BS is present.

So, given the risk of unfairly banning an enthusiastic fanboy while labeling them a shill, versus the prospect of having a few shills in here that are otherwise harmless by virtue of the resiliency of the community spirit itself, I am inclined to err on the side that favors fairness and due process first and foremost.

We will, and have in the past, take action on shills and spammers as we uncover them, it is an ongoing battle that occurs in the background thanks to many hardworking admins and mods that many of you probably don't even know about.

Administrator Idontcare

(posting as an admin but not bolding all the text in this post because that just gets obnoxious on the eyes for everyone)

 

[nsavop]

Isn't true AMD allows there viral marketers to post on forums without disclosing who they are? I've never seen a forum member with a sig that states they receive free hardware and such from AMD.

Just asking.

 

[JSt0rm]

Isn't true AMD allows there viral marketers to post on forums without disclosing who they are? I've never seen a forum member with a sig that states they receive free hardware and such from AMD.

Just asking.

Supposedly they don't do that (but they probably do). Only nvidia was caught with their hands in the cookie jar. AFAIK

They probably both do it still. That focus group was pr to stop people from hating nvidia and it has been widdled down to nothing. So they are probably all back waging internet forum wars with each other. Someone should make a short film about it :awe:

 

[blastingcap]

Let me clarify that by "powers that be" I meant talking to AMD and NVDA's marketing departments to ask them to please back off if they are doing anything untoward.

And yes, keep up the good work and behind the scenes handling of the matter, the last thing we need is for public floggings and witch hunts that would generate more problems than solutions.

Your post saying you know for sure that there are forumers who get free hardware, though, has generated a lot of attention. I don't think it will be too easy to stuff the genie back in the bottle on that one.

Regarding shills, we don't tolerate them, we perma-ban them as the spammers they are when we uncover them. And we will continue to do so.

Just understand that we don't permaban on a whim or a suspicion, its the same with suspected RBM's (returning banned members) or suspected dealers in FS/T...we hold ourselves to an internal standard that requires more than just speculation and innuendo before we swing the banhammer.

If we banned everyone that was merely accused or mildly suspected of being an RBM, a dealer, or a shill then you can imagine how unfair that would be for the falsely accused.

I'm personally inclined to look at this from the other perspective which is that our community is strong enough and intelligent enough to think for itself and see through the BS if and when BS is present.

So, given the risk of unfairly banning an enthusiastic fanboy while labeling them a shill, versus the prospect of having a few shills in here that are otherwise harmless by virtue of the resiliency of the community spirit itself, I am inclined to err on the side that favors fairness and due process first and foremost.

We will, and have in the past, take action on shills and spammers as we uncover them, it is an ongoing battle that occurs in the background thanks to many hardworking admins and mods that many of you probably don't even know about.

Administrator Idontcare

(posting as an admin but not bolding all the text in this post because that just gets obnoxious on the eyes for everyone)

 

[Idontcare]

Your post saying you know for sure that there are forumers who get free hardware, though, has generated a lot of attention. I don't think it will be too easy to stuff the genie back in the bottle on that one.

I posted nothing new, anyone who visits the frontpage of AnandTech already knows about this.

 

[GaiaHunter]

What I don't understand is what is this thread doing on the V&GC forum.

Every time there are staggered launches we get this.

Now not only we have to deal with the normal (more or less biased) posts of our forums we also have to deal with posts of other forums.

 

[blastingcap]

I posted nothing new, anyone who visits the frontpage of AnandTech already knows about this.

Good one. :thumbsup:

 

[WelshBloke]

Frankly I don't care if people get free stuff. The important bit is if they are a pain in the posterior.
If rollo (using him as an example as he's no longer a member here) had been polite and honest I doubt many people would have had a problem with him.
Conversely wreckage wasn't a shill but was a royal pain and deserved banning.

So ultimately as I see it its not what people are given it's their behaviour on the forum that matters.

 

[DooKey]

I posted nothing new, anyone who visits the frontpage of AnandTech already knows about this.

Now that's funny! Good one Idc!

 

[BFG10K]

I remember that entire controversy, and you were vindicated completely at the time. I have seen myself, however, that some newer games are a bit more cpu-bound than the games that you've tested in the past.

For sure, I wouldn’t recommend an E6850 nowadays, but 2-3 years ago it could still push a single GPU hard in most gaming settings at realistic settings. Each time I upgraded my graphics card I got large performance gains with that processor, and I had it for two years.

These days an i5 750 or i3-2120 are in the same boat and are absolutely fine for gaming.

 

[BFG10K]

Gotta be some juicy details behind that, do tell.

Things didn't work out. They're a good bunch of guys and I wish them well.

 

[Madcatatlas]

The guy has lost it. He is going to regret alot of the bs he spewed about both posters and moderators over here. Very unproffesional, and just too emotional.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Conversely wreckage wasn't a shill but was a royal pain and deserved banning.

So ultimately as I see it its not what people are given it's their behaviour on the forum that matters.

Thinking back 6~7 years ago, wreckages posts were logical and sound from my memory (if its serving me right..) til his tone and attitude to posting changed 180 degrees.

 

[KCfromNC]

Isn't true AMD allows there viral marketers to post on forums without disclosing who they are? I've never seen a forum member with a sig that states they receive free hardware and such from AMD.

This could be because they don't disclose their affiliation, or it could be that there is no viral marketing going on from AMD at the level that nV has been found doing. Until we have actual evidence that this alleged AMD viral marketing exists, asking why a possibly imaginary group is or isn't doing anything is premature.

Anyone made any progress getting free hardware from AMD? My PM box is sadly quite empty. But that's the great part about conspiracy theories - they fact that they are so well hidden shows that they must be a well-disciplined conspiracy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI

 

[SirPauly]

Imho,

It's simple for me: Engage the points but no attacks on the messenger or poster. If a poster is too extreme or too one sided or too much drama - they usually hang themselves with their own wording and action, usually banned for being too disruptive anyway.

 

[railven]

Imho,

It's simple for me: Engage the points but no attacks on the messenger or poster. If a poster is too extreme or too one sided or too much drama - they usually hang themselves with their own wording and action, usually banned for being too disruptive anyway.

+1. That's how I know who to ignore when I ask for advice. If one guy is hollering and shouting about a product the majority seem to not recommend - that guy is dismissed on my end.

 

[Idontcare]

(posting as an admin but not bolding all the text in this post because that just gets obnoxious on the eyes for everyone)

Just to be clear, I dont really think there are any shills on this forum.
However....

thread like this:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2218537

Where its basically just 2 x youtube commericals.
Seriously? is that a valid thread?

I didn't see this before when I was responding, the answer to your question is "yes, it is a valid thread".

In general, I will say this:

1) Anytime a member has questions regarding the validity of a thread in any given subforum they can simply report the first post of that thread and fill in the comment box so the mods will understand they want us to talk about it with them. Or they can make a thread in the Moderator Discussions subforum. Either works fine and they will get their question answered. We moderators don't want members left guessing or wondering about threads, but at the same time we can't have members publicly asking about a thread's validity because that alone derails the thread in question. So just report it, play it safe, and get the question answered in a way that is respectful to the thread's OP. The same as we expect members to do when they see spam.

2) Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What one person thinks to be super-awesome and they are bursting at the seams to share with their online friends may come across to the next guy as worthless uninspired drivel. But, no one is required to post in the thread, or to even read the thread. If a thread doesn't appeal to a member then they can simply move on and forget about it. If the thread's topic is so far removed from that of mainstream appeal to the community then it wall fall like a rock down the thread rankings and pretty soon no one will be left looking at it any more.

If a member seems to have consistent qualities in the thread's they post then just put them on ignore, problem solved, you don't have to worry about seeing their threads anymore.

As individuals, every member has the power to censor the information that they are exposed to by virtue of the ignore member feature (as well as by being able to just opt out of coming here in the first place), there is no need for the mods to commit wholesale censorship of what could be a valid minority viewpoint.

It is with this in mind, a desire to not suppress the minority opinion, or to avoid risking suppression of the majority opinion owing to the moderator being one who holds the minority opinion themselves (attempting to make the forums in a likeness of their own image...) that we moderators intentionally give wide latitude to the range of thread topics that are allowed in any given subforum.

Communities tend to have a natural organic way about themselves in which the relevant stuff floats to the top, and the stuff that isn't will settle out at the bottom. Its not perfect, it is a balance between ruling as a benevolent dictator versus watching mob rule take hold.

And TBH I think we all do a rather decent job, on the whole, as a community in this regard.

Administrator Idontcare

 

[soccerballtux]

Supposedly they don't do that (but they probably do). Only nvidia was caught with their hands in the cookie jar. AFAIK

They probably both do it still. That focus group was pr to stop people from hating nvidia and it has been widdled down to nothing. So they are probably all back waging internet forum wars with each other. Someone should make a short film about it :awe:

To be honest I think AMDs marketing department is far too inept for this. They don't exactly have a budget IMO, and if they do it just fails the test of reasonableness to me that they'd be clever enough to do something that underhanded.

Most of the rabid AMD defenders myself included only come out of the woodworks with the obvious NVidia biased posters? I don't read VC&G much anymore so I can't speak for certain. I just remember it was especially frustrating to see newly registered forum users seeking the "best bang for buck" getting shoveled into an NVidia card at their pricepoint in spite of AMD having a card that was 10-15% faster for the money.

 

[bryanW1995]

Things didn't work out. They're a good bunch of guys and I wish them well.

You wouldn't go very far at the Enquirer...

 

[bryanW1995]

To be honest I think AMDs marketing department is far too inept for this. They don't exactly have a budget IMO, and if they do it just fails the test of reasonableness to me that they'd be clever enough to do something that underhanded.

Most of the rabid AMD defenders myself included only come out of the woodworks with the obvious NVidia biased posters? I don't read VC&G much anymore so I can't speak for certain. I just remember it was especially frustrating to see newly registered forum users seeking the "best bang for buck" getting shoveled into an NVidia card at their pricepoint in spite of AMD having a card that was 10-15% faster for the money.

I also thought that they were too inept to do it until apoppin told me that he was contacted by an AMD "Focus Group"/Viral Marketing agent back in 2009. Even though he's pretty pissed at AMD these days, I am extremely confident that he wouldn't make something like this up. So, basically, my confidence in Apoppin's honesty is higher than my disbelief at AMD marketing dept's ability to do anything right. The real question now, of course, is if they're still doing it after firing most of their marketing staff. It's unlikely that even if it's going on that AMD is doing it themselves, but it's at least possible that some of their staff that just swiched to the company that reps AMD keeping it going. I still think that's not the case, and that Apoppin is seeing shadows right now, because we do have some ridiculously rabid red-team fanboys here these days. But we're kidding ourselves if we think that AMD never started a FG/Viral Marketing team. Heck, they even had the perfect excuse b/c Nvidia is/was doing it, right? Let's just hope that either the AMD FG is gone, or at least that it's gone into hiding after the recent light that many of us (Apoppin included) have shined on them.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Let's just hope that either the AMD FG is gone, or at least that it's gone into hiding after the recent light that many of us (Apoppin included) have shined on them.

Actually if there are any I rather prefer they are accounted for than hiding.

I'm not sure exactly was accomplished by this - I haven't seen anyone on the spotlight. If all there is posting patterns, anyone with a working brain and interest can identify people that go out of their way and blow out of proportion any problem of rival companies. Additionally anyone that go on springs of posts/threads can be suspicious.

But it can be simply an annoying and/or bored person with nothing better to do.

Look at wreckage - it seems absurd one would go out of his way just for fun to post the stuff he posted, but apparently that is the case.

I hope if any viral member of whatever company are found, they are not only dealt with but it is also publicly acknowledge.

 

[Madcatatlas]

Let's just hope that either the AMD FG is gone, or at least that it's gone into hiding after the recent ligt that many of us (Apoppin included) have shined on them.

Really.. Lol

I hope Groove does not post any more, being the "leader" of the "amd focus group" according to the "light" many, (including apoppin) have " shined" upon that group.

You should apoligize for even suggesting such a thing bryan.