Delphi LOWERS offer to UAW to $9/hr!

[FuzzyBee]

Isn't just the opening salvo? Last time I checked, most successful negotiations don't start with what you expect to pay. They're just seeing what they can get.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: alchemize
Welcome to life as an unskilled high-school graduate (maybe)!

Indeed, these people should be the poster children for why getting more than a highschool or GED education is a must in our country.

Sure there may be a few college grads who dont want to aspire to anything more than a low skilled 12 dollar an hour laborer. But I am guessing the majority of these people hit have highschool educations and that is it.

If people with College educations become plentiful won't their worth decrease too? Look at the IT sector for example.

BTW there are plenty of well paying jobs for those with just High School educations especially in the Building Trades. Of course those are skilled jobs and to be successful one "usually" has to go to a Trade School and/ an Apprenticeship program. You can also become an Auto Mechanic, a Welder, a HiVac Technician, Truck Diver, Heavy Equipment Operator and a lot of other occupations considered "Blue Collar" which pay well with good benefits without having a College Degree.

Sure it will but that is the natual evolution of anything. 100 years ago a highschool education was a big deal. I bet in 30 years a masters will be the minimum requirement for many jobs that today require a 4 year college degree.

And a Union Carpenter with no College Degree will still make more than them.

For now maybe, but isnt this thread about Union unskilled workers getting a 9 dollar an hour wage offer?

Well I was commenting on other's comments in this thread that High School Educated People shouldn't expect good wages. Also, do you believe everybody that works for Delphi is unskilled?

I dont believe I ever said they cant do it, just the cards are stacked against them. You can look at the census data and employment data. They show avg wages for highschool dropouts, highschool graduates, 2 year degree, 4 year degree, masters, doctorate.

On avg you are looking at a mountain if you remain uneducated. That is the point I am trying to get across.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Genx87

I dont believe I ever said they cant do it, just the cards are stacked against them. You can look at the census data and employment data. They show avg wages for highschool dropouts, highschool graduates, 2 year degree, 4 year degree, masters, doctorate.

On avg you are looking at a mountain if you remain uneducated. That is the point I am trying to get across.

No doubt it's a good idea to get a College Education even if you end up working in a Blue Collar job. One things for certain a College Education won't hurt you, it can only help you.

 

[TStep]

Originally posted by: Pabster

When resumes are flying around many managers will note educational experience first. If you have "Highschool" they will toss it out before bothering to look at your experience level. Dont believe me? Ask the average manager how long he looks at each of the hundreds of resumes he has on his desk. Average time I last heard was about 15 seconds. They are looking for keywords and highschool isnt one of them.

Absolutely true.

not necessarily true. construction industry does alot by word-of-mouth / references.

edit: that said, a higher education will not hurt your prospects.

 

[EatSpam]

Sounds like a "George W. Bush Job of the Future" to me!!!

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Genx87

I dont believe I ever said they cant do it, just the cards are stacked against them. You can look at the census data and employment data. They show avg wages for highschool dropouts, highschool graduates, 2 year degree, 4 year degree, masters, doctorate.

On avg you are looking at a mountain if you remain uneducated. That is the point I am trying to get across.

No doubt it's a good idea to get a College Education even if you end up working in a Blue Collar job. One things for certain a College Education won't hurt you, it can only help you.

I'd disagree, I think having not finished my degree actually helped me get a lot of programming jobs. At least during a recession. Back in 1999 or so, a degree could have literally doubled my salary.

But then again, I could have just removed it from my resume.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: Train
Damn dude, the McDonalds in my neighborhood STARTS at $9/hr

And they probably have some sort of health benefits too.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Did anyone actual look at the linked article and read the sidebar(s).

Details of Delphi's latest offer to the UAW:

? Base wages of $9.50/hour for existing low production workers, $10.50/hour for high production workers, and $19/hour for skilled trades.

? New employee pay would start at $9/hour; $18/hour for skilled workers.


Employee health care expenses would be capped at $2,500/year for individuals; $5,000/year for a family.

Note the words PRODUCTION and SKILLED
Also, that is base pay. OT is available will still increase that amount; howver, people should not base their spending habits around OT.

w/ respect to the Health care costs
That means the max that a family would pay wold be $5K. It does not mean that they will have to pay the first $5K. Deductibles will come into play.

 

[dirtboy]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Genx87

I dont believe I ever said they cant do it, just the cards are stacked against them. You can look at the census data and employment data. They show avg wages for highschool dropouts, highschool graduates, 2 year degree, 4 year degree, masters, doctorate.

On avg you are looking at a mountain if you remain uneducated. That is the point I am trying to get across.

No doubt it's a good idea to get a College Education even if you end up working in a Blue Collar job. One things for certain a College Education won't hurt you, it can only help you.

I'd disagree, I think having not finished my degree actually helped me get a lot of programming jobs. At least during a recession. Back in 1999 or so, a degree could have literally doubled my salary.

But then again, I could have just removed it from my resume.

I didn't think I needed a degree and I don't need it to do my job. I went back to school at a later age and earlier this year I finished. Granted I didn't learn anything I could use, but the information and the things I did learn, I have used in other ways. It has made me more well rounded and more knowledgable in other areas.

There have been specific instances where that information has helped me out and I am grateful to have it. These days people don't understand that the writing, speaking and other skills one learns in college are quite useful. Employers want that, but it depends on how high you are looking to reach to say how much you need them. I'm not saying you can't learn those skills elsewhere, but college is a great place to learn them.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

The only thing in the business world I hate more than unions is an incompetent leadership.

For once I have to side with UAW here. Kind of...

If Delphi's current business model is so flawed that it requires this kind of draconian cutback in payroll and benefits then the company is doomed anyway. At this point I'd be willing to bet they could reduce their pay to $1/hr and they would still be in trouble. And you can lay it all at the feet of top management for focusing more on their stock price and annual bonus payout than the actual health of the company. And that is just plain wrong.

Management owes it to the employees (and investors) to maintain the fiscal health and profitability of the business. Sometimes this involves telling the unions "no". It also means telling themselves "no" when the profits aren't there. I have nothing against large bonus payouts to the top corporate officers when the company is healthy and profitable. But Delphi is a desgrace right now and the incompetance of the upper level corporate staff is probably going to cost a few thousand people their jobs.

 

[BarneyFife]

Seems like a slap in the face. I think $12 hour with health insurance would have been better. $26 is way too much for stupid work (ie operating a machine that makes parts). a lot of engineers don't even make that much.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
We already have this in P&N.

The Folks in there are thrilled because this is going 100% according to their plan.

This is the new era, Republican version of American Dream. Enjoy

Hey Dave, did you ever find a job or is The Man holding you down?

The latter of course. You call the Rich & Powerful "The Man" eh?

Interesting choice of words :laugh:

Here's an idea, instead of spending all of your waking hours trolling on AnandTech, why not go out and really search for a job?

Oh I'm am working.

I work the new version of the Republican American Dream.

I bounce from temporary job to temporary job so that the Rich Republican Employers don't have to pay health benefits and pay me as low as possible.

I have been searching for a job on a daily basis since 2002.

Nice try, play again.

 

[ajf3]

Agree that they were making too much - but, once this all gets settled and it costs 30% less to build a car, we'll see that discount reflected on the sticker, right?

Riigghhhtt... it'll be more profit for the corp, not a savings to the consumer.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

I have been searching for a job on a daily basis since 2002.

:Q

 

[Jimmah]

Wow, 9$ is far too low. I think it would be goood with partial benefits, something like 80% dental and 90% health, 12$/hour starting wage with 30 cents added for every year they've worked there and a one year probation, inital wages 10$/hour adding 50 cents every 3 months to get to starting wage once off probation. I agree with the no pension thing, you should be responsible for setting yourself right in retirement, its not your employers responsibility to keep you fed. Also, 2 weeks of vacation starting, adding a week every 5 years sounds fair, a lot of people don't even get that much.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
i'm one of the biggest union haters on these boards but let me say, this is not the rebirth of the american auto industry, not until management shows they can make the same kind of sacrifices they are requiring of the unions.

A college buddy of mine was working at a Ford stamping plant near me here in Michigan, he was a manager working 60 hours a week, and was making less than the guys working the line who never worked over 40 hours.

Management sacrificed long before the UAW did.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
i'm one of the biggest union haters on these boards but let me say, this is not the rebirth of the american auto industry, not until management shows they can make the same kind of sacrifices they are requiring of the unions.

A college buddy of mine was working at a Ford stamping plant near me here in Michigan, he was a manager working 60 hours a week, and was making less than the guys working the line who never worked over 40 hours.

Management sacrificed long before the UAW did.

No. Management are the people at the offices at the HQ. These people wear thousand dollar suits and drive in luxury cars while getting paid millions. They have done nothing but run American car companies into the ground and get rewarded by million dollar bonuses. One of the wealthiest men in Japan matsushita flies in commercial airliners while the GM high rollers have private jets. Japanese execs don't make millions and if their company goes bankrupt, some commit suicide because they are embarassed. If companies go bankrupt here, they get multi-million severence packages and their buddies hook them up with another executive job. Trimming the fat starts at the top. They certainly can sacrifice vacation homes and private jets like their Japanese counterparts.

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: dartworth

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: dartworth

Originally posted by: spidey07
"The proposal says that Delphi plans to implement the agreement Jan. 1. It would run through Jan. 1, 2012."

Owned.

UAW can't win this one. Its over. This is Delphi saying "your time is over, you must leave now"

Delphi can't force a contract on the UAW...

Exactly. The contracts will be null and void.

No more union. either take it or get out.

LOL...it won't happen

You think it is that simple...?

Yes it is that simple. Just as the NWA mechanics union found out.........

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
We already have this in P&N.

The Folks in there are thrilled because this is going 100% according to their plan.

This is the new era, Republican version of American Dream. Enjoy

Hey Dave, did you ever find a job or is The Man holding you down?

The latter of course. You call the Rich & Powerful "The Man" eh?

Interesting choice of words :laugh:

Here's an idea, instead of spending all of your waking hours trolling on AnandTech, why not go out and really search for a job?

Oh I'm am working.

I work the new version of the Republican American Dream.

I bounce from temporary job to temporary job so that the Rich Republican Employers don't have to pay health benefits and pay me as low as possible.

I have been searching for a job on a daily basis since 2002.

Nice try, play again.

Way to blame your problems on those evil "Rich Republican Employers", you sad little man.

 

[zephyrprime]

I think it's pretty clear that delphi really has no intention of keeping operations in the US. There's just no way for americans to compete with the $3/day wages that can be gotten overseas. The "negotiations" delphi is currently engaged in are just its way of walking away from the UAW.

 

[meltdown75]

(sorry to go off topic here gentlemen)

something strange in this thread. apparently there were approximately 65 posts at 1:04pm. :Q

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Oh I'm am working.

I work the new version of the Republican American Dream.

I bounce from temporary job to temporary job so that the Rich Republican Employers don't have to pay health benefits and pay me as low as possible.

I have been searching for a job on a daily basis since 2002.

Nice try, play again.

How does it feel knowing your entire life is a joke? It hurts, huh?

Now this is a textbook PERSONAL flame -- two weeks off.

 

[TStep]

Originally posted by: meltdown75
(sorry to go off topic here gentlemen)

something strange in this thread. apparently there were approximately 65 posts at 1:04pm. :Q

everything from OT got combined into this thread

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
i'm one of the biggest union haters on these boards but let me say, this is not the rebirth of the american auto industry, not until management shows they can make the same kind of sacrifices they are requiring of the unions.

A college buddy of mine was working at a Ford stamping plant near me here in Michigan, he was a manager working 60 hours a week, and was making less than the guys working the line who never worked over 40 hours.

Management sacrificed long before the UAW did.

No. Management are the people at the offices at the HQ. These people wear thousand dollar suits and drive in luxury cars while getting paid millions. They have done nothing but run American car companies into the ground and get rewarded by million dollar bonuses. One of the wealthiest men in Japan matsushita flies in commercial airliners while the GM high rollers have private jets. Japanese execs don't make millions and if their company goes bankrupt, some commit suicide because they are embarassed. If companies go bankrupt here, they get multi-million severence packages and their buddies hook them up with another executive job. Trimming the fat starts at the top. They certainly can sacrifice vacation homes and private jets like their Japanese counterparts.

Go become a Japanese exec then.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: TStep

Originally posted by: meltdown75
(sorry to go off topic here gentlemen)

something strange in this thread. apparently there were approximately 65 posts at 1:04pm. :Q

everything from OT got combined into this thread

i prefer to think of it as a rip in the space / time continuum... YMMV