OS
Lifer
- Oct 11, 1999
- 15,581
- 1
- 76
Originally posted by: mugs
So you cut all of the executives' pay. Then what happens? It's less desirable for them to work there, so they find another job that'll pay them better. You hire a guy to replace him, but because you're not willing to pay the going rate you have to settle for a less than ideal candidate. Then your company tanks because you have a bunch of idiots running it.
That's a bit oversimplified of course.
Doubt that, supposedly european and japanese companies don't have such large compensation disparity between top management and the average employee pay, and they are doing fine.
- Jan 7, 2002
- 12,755
- 3
- 0
Delphi Corp.'s first offer to unionized autoworkers since filing for bankruptcy protection calls for an unprecedented elimination of benefits and even steeper wage cuts than an earlier proposal made by Chairman Robert S. "Steve" Miller.
Instead of the $10 to $12 an hour that Miller said Delphi should pay its production workers, the company started talks with the United Auto Workers last Friday by seeking wages as low as $9 an hour, according to a copy of the proposal posted on union Web sites.
In addition, Delphi wants workers to accept:
? Huge increases in out-of-pocket health care costs and the reduction or elimination of pension benefits.
? The loss of vision and dental benefits, tuition assistance and child care subsidies.
? Reduced vacation days, paid holidays and overtime.
? The elimination of cost-of-living raises and profit sharing.
The new terms would take effect Jan. 1, 2006, and run through Jan 1, 2012.
Word of the proposal appears to have heightened tensions between Delphi and its union work force. The low-ball offer has stirred talk of possible strikes in Delphi's U.S. factories, where the average wage is $26 an hour.
"There is no way the UAW is going to accept this," said Skip Dziedzic, president of UAW Local 1866 in Oak Creek, Wis. "If Mr. Miller is looking for a fight, I think he is going to find one."
Delphi has declined to comment on the contents of its Oct. 21 proposals to the UAW. But it acknowledged in the document posted that the cuts "are more significant than previously discussed."
"There is no alternative," the company said in the six-page proposal. "Unless Delphi can transform its U.S. operations, they will cease to exist, resulting in even greater hardship for employees, retirees and families."
The UAW represents 24,000 Delphi workers; the International Union of Electrical Workers has 8,500 members at Delphi. http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0510/26/A01-361752.htm
Instead of the $10 to $12 an hour that Miller said Delphi should pay its production workers, the company started talks with the United Auto Workers last Friday by seeking wages as low as $9 an hour, according to a copy of the proposal posted on union Web sites.
In addition, Delphi wants workers to accept:
? Huge increases in out-of-pocket health care costs and the reduction or elimination of pension benefits.
? The loss of vision and dental benefits, tuition assistance and child care subsidies.
? Reduced vacation days, paid holidays and overtime.
? The elimination of cost-of-living raises and profit sharing.
The new terms would take effect Jan. 1, 2006, and run through Jan 1, 2012.
Word of the proposal appears to have heightened tensions between Delphi and its union work force. The low-ball offer has stirred talk of possible strikes in Delphi's U.S. factories, where the average wage is $26 an hour.
"There is no way the UAW is going to accept this," said Skip Dziedzic, president of UAW Local 1866 in Oak Creek, Wis. "If Mr. Miller is looking for a fight, I think he is going to find one."
Delphi has declined to comment on the contents of its Oct. 21 proposals to the UAW. But it acknowledged in the document posted that the cuts "are more significant than previously discussed."
"There is no alternative," the company said in the six-page proposal. "Unless Delphi can transform its U.S. operations, they will cease to exist, resulting in even greater hardship for employees, retirees and families."
The UAW represents 24,000 Delphi workers; the International Union of Electrical Workers has 8,500 members at Delphi. http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0510/26/A01-361752.htm
How is $9 an hour too little? The right amount to pay is the amount legal American citizens are willing to work for. If they can find qualified Americans willing to do the job for $9/hour wages, then that's what the job is worth. I suspect they would have no problem finding qualified individuals at $9/hour for most positions if they are not held hostage by a union.
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
- 3
- 0
I don't know, most IT workers make around $26 an hour and if given the time most Monkeys can be trained to do it. However if it would save the Company and in turn save jobs I think that the Union should be willing to compromise as long as Delphi is willing to compromise too! $9 an hour plus loss of all those benefits is a slap in the face.
So, you guys figure they'll cut executive compensation by 2/3, as well? More likely lay out huge bonuses for putting the huge bone to the workforce...
Meanwhile, the mortgage doesn't get any cheaper, healthcare and energy costs continue to spiral up, as does insurance and almost everything else... your pension is swirling down the porcelain bowl, and they're stuffing SS in on top of it...
Welcome to globalization, where they don't bring scabs to the jobsite anymore, they just move the whole shebang to to another country, where workers are grateful for 90 cents an hour... labor organizers just disappear, and your elected representatives encourage the practice.
Don't worry, be happy. Take a break- go to Walmart, buy a mountain of cheap chinese crap you don't need, put it on the Mastercard. Take that gas guzzling SUV on a nice long vacation- put it on the Visa card. Pop that motivational program CD in while you're on the road, listen to Rush, Hannity, Savage, and Robertson, then come on home to Fox news and O'Reilly telling it how it is- the problem is that your degree isn't good enough, you don't work hard enough, or believe enough in Jesus, and the libruhl media, evil income taxes, and the social programs... Oh, yeh, put the cable bill on the Discover card... Be sure to take your meds, wouldn't want to get depressed... mmm.... prozac, valium, maybe a little elavil... put it on the other mastercard... Refinance the casa, for 125% of the ridiculously inflated value, pay off the cards, start all over again...
America- ain't it grand?
Meanwhile, the mortgage doesn't get any cheaper, healthcare and energy costs continue to spiral up, as does insurance and almost everything else... your pension is swirling down the porcelain bowl, and they're stuffing SS in on top of it...
Welcome to globalization, where they don't bring scabs to the jobsite anymore, they just move the whole shebang to to another country, where workers are grateful for 90 cents an hour... labor organizers just disappear, and your elected representatives encourage the practice.
Don't worry, be happy. Take a break- go to Walmart, buy a mountain of cheap chinese crap you don't need, put it on the Mastercard. Take that gas guzzling SUV on a nice long vacation- put it on the Visa card. Pop that motivational program CD in while you're on the road, listen to Rush, Hannity, Savage, and Robertson, then come on home to Fox news and O'Reilly telling it how it is- the problem is that your degree isn't good enough, you don't work hard enough, or believe enough in Jesus, and the libruhl media, evil income taxes, and the social programs... Oh, yeh, put the cable bill on the Discover card... Be sure to take your meds, wouldn't want to get depressed... mmm.... prozac, valium, maybe a little elavil... put it on the other mastercard... Refinance the casa, for 125% of the ridiculously inflated value, pay off the cards, start all over again...
America- ain't it grand?
I'll take my chances in court, rather than give in to those BS demands. At least I'll make them file bankruptcy. And let me tell you, even when a big company files bankruptcy, it ain't a walk in the park.
meltdown75
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2004
- 37,548
- 7
- 81
$9 an hour plus loss of all those benefits is the new American Republican Dream.
Corrected for you.
We already have this in P&N.
The Folks in there are thrilled because this is going 100% according to their plan.
This is the new era, Republican version of American Dream. Enjoy
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
We already have this in P&N.
The Folks in there are thrilled because this is going 100% according to their plan.
This is the new era, Republican version of American Dream. Enjoy
Hey Dave, did you ever find a job or is The Man holding you down?
nakedfrog
No Lifer
- Apr 3, 2001
- 63,061
- 19,373
- 136
Originally posted by: mugs
So you cut all of the executives' pay. Then what happens? It's less desirable for them to work there, so they find another job that'll pay them better. You hire a guy to replace him, but because you're not willing to pay the going rate you have to settle for a less than ideal candidate. Then your company tanks because you have a bunch of idiots running it.
That's a bit oversimplified of course.
Executives in this country are badly overpaid as well, pretty much across the board.
Originally posted by: mwtgg
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
We already have this in P&N.
The Folks in there are thrilled because this is going 100% according to their plan.
This is the new era, Republican version of American Dream. Enjoy
Hey Dave, did you ever find a job or is The Man holding you down?
The latter of course. You call the Rich & Powerful "The Man" eh?
Interesting choice of words :laugh:
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: mwtgg
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
We already have this in P&N.
The Folks in there are thrilled because this is going 100% according to their plan.
This is the new era, Republican version of American Dream. Enjoy
Hey Dave, did you ever find a job or is The Man holding you down?
The latter of course. You call the Rich & Powerful "The Man" eh?
Interesting choice of words :laugh:
Here's an idea, instead of spending all of your waking hours trolling on AnandTech, why not go out and really search for a job?
mugs
Lifer
- Apr 29, 2003
- 48,920
- 46
- 91
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: mwtgg
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
We already have this in P&N.
The Folks in there are thrilled because this is going 100% according to their plan.
This is the new era, Republican version of American Dream. Enjoy
Hey Dave, did you ever find a job or is The Man holding you down?
The latter of course. You call the Rich & Powerful "The Man" eh?
Interesting choice of words :laugh:
Woah, deja vu...
The companies are killing off the Unions through the use of bankruptcy the Unions helped to create.
The ultimate irony. Watch NWA, the exact same situation.
The ultimate irony. Watch NWA, the exact same situation.
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