Delphi LOWERS offer to UAW to $9/hr!

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: joshw10
How is $9 an hour too little? The right amount to pay is the amount legal American citizens are willing to work for. If they can find qualified Americans willing to do the job for $9/hour wages, then that's what the job is worth. I suspect they would have no problem finding qualified individuals at $9/hour for most positions if they are not held hostage by a union.

Ever tried to raise a family on $9 an hour wages?

The pendulum swings both ways.

Ever try to find a blue collar job that requires no education and pays $26 an hour?
9-12 is about the going rate for what they do. You can argue this and that on what they can and cannot do with that wage but the simple fact is its par for the course for low education manual labor type jobs.

HOWEVER.

You have to remember, the Board finalized its payout package THE DAY BEFORE filing for bankruptcy. Wonder why that was?

 

[outriding]

As have worked at Delphi in the past..

I can tell you that the upper management is messed up.

Do a search for the jobs bank and you will see what I mean.

In a nut shell the jobs bank came around because the contract between Delphi and the UAW state there must be so many people working at a certain location for a period of time. Well the management took those jobs and moved them to Mexico, etc and the UAW wants the contract to be fulfilled so Delphi is still paying tens of thousands workers just to sit in a building and get paid their full salary.

My questions why did not Delphi wait until the contract was up and change the contract.. maybe lower the salaries but keep the jobs here and not have to pay into the jobs bank because right now they are paying the workers in Mexico and here. And why are not the white collar workers getting cuts? I agree that $26 is high for a high school grad but if Delphi was really hurting they would cut upper management also.

On a side note the person who was one down from CIO was fired last year for taking bribes. The CFO was just fired earlier this year for cooking the books. And the CEO was "asked" to take an early retirement.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Ever try to find a blue collar job that requires no education and pays $26 an hour?
9-12 is about the going rate for what they do. You can argue this and that on what they can and cannot do with that wage but the simple fact is its par for the course for low education manual labor type jobs.

I agree on the pay scale for unskilled general labor. That's the going rate most anywhere.

HOWEVER, I don't believe all those positions are unskilled. And we know that today a decent benefit package alone is worth far more than a few extra dollars an hour in pay.

HOWEVER.

You have to remember, the Board finalized its payout package THE DAY BEFORE filing for bankruptcy. Wonder why that was?

I don't wonder a bit.

 

[alchemize]

Welcome to life as an unskilled high-school graduate (maybe)!

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Welcome to life as an unskilled high-school graduate (maybe)!

Indeed, these people should be the poster children for why getting more than a highschool or GED education is a must in our country.

Sure there may be a few college grads who dont want to aspire to anything more than a low skilled 12 dollar an hour laborer. But I am guessing the majority of these people hit have highschool educations and that is it.

 

[dirtboy]

These are wages as low as $9 per hour, most likely starting wages. Can't raise a family on $9/hr? Don't have children in high school and drop out. :roll:

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: dirtboy
These are wages as low as $9 per hour, most likely starting wages. Can't raise a family on $9/hr? Don't have children in high school and drop out. :roll:

We live in a consequence free society didnt you hear? The liberals have been yapping for the last 30 years a single mother is the best thing since sliced bread!

 

[marvdmartian]

The truly sad part about all of this is that even if Delphi gets some huge wage cuts, which will save them a ton of money, and thus make it cheaper for them to make the parts they make......

....it will not make even one cent difference in the price they charge for those parts. And even if they did drop their prices, it wouldn't drop the price of the vehicles that get those parts.

Typical corporation. Stick it to the workers, stick it to the consumers, and the board will get some huge bonuses for doing all of that! :roll:

 

[Train]

Damn dude, the McDonalds in my neighborhood STARTS at $9/hr

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: marvdmartian
The truly sad part about all of this is that even if Delphi gets some huge wage cuts, which will save them a ton of money, and thus make it cheaper for them to make the parts they make......

....it will not make even one cent difference in the price they charge for those parts. And even if they did drop their prices, it wouldn't drop the price of the vehicles that get those parts.

Typical corporation. Stick it to the workers, stick it to the consumers, and the board will get some huge bonuses for doing all of that! :roll:

Corporations are formed to create wealth and profit for the owners of the company. Not to be an entitlement program for the local population.

This issue of paying 12,000 people 31 bucks an hour to sit around could fix a lot problems. That is about 700 million a year in wages they could wipe away if they simply got rid of that joke of a program.

 

[dirtboy]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: dirtboy
These are wages as low as $9 per hour, most likely starting wages. Can't raise a family on $9/hr? Don't have children in high school and drop out. :roll:

We live in a consequence free society didnt you hear? The liberals have been yapping for the last 30 years a single mother is the best thing since sliced bread!

Sure it is, because those people need handouts; need to suck on the gov't nipple. All courtesy of the DNC which believes that no person should be accountable for their actions unless they are a Republican.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Indeed, these people should be the poster children for why getting more than a highschool or GED education is a must in our country.

So they can sit at home with thousands in debt and plaster their resume all over the 'net while trying to figure out if working at McD or WM is a way out of their current misfortunes?

As you might be able to tell, I'm not a big fan of the "college is a must" mentality.

I know a fair amount of successful people who have no college or dropped out.

I think it is more "How much do you want?" and "How hard are you willing to work to get there?"

 

[KevinH]

Originally posted by: Train
Damn dude, the McDonalds in my neighborhood STARTS at $9/hr

WTF? Are you serious? Fast food was paying minimum wage when I wasin HS and that was a whopping 4.75 by in the early 90's. Jesus....

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: KevinH
WTF? Are you serious? Fast food was paying minimum wage when I wasin HS and that was a whopping 4.75 by in the early 90's. Jesus....

Heh, well, the McD's around here start at $8-ish, so I believe it, in a more expensive place.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: alchemize
Welcome to life as an unskilled high-school graduate (maybe)!

Indeed, these people should be the poster children for why getting more than a highschool or GED education is a must in our country.

Sure there may be a few college grads who dont want to aspire to anything more than a low skilled 12 dollar an hour laborer. But I am guessing the majority of these people hit have highschool educations and that is it.

If people with College educations become plentiful won't their worth decrease too? Look at the IT sector for example.

BTW there are plenty of well paying jobs for those with just High School educations especially in the Building Trades. Of course those are skilled jobs and to be successful one "usually" has to go to a Trade School and/ an Apprenticeship program. You can also become an Auto Mechanic, a Welder, a HiVac Technician, Truck Diver, Heavy Equipment Operator and a lot of other occupations considered "Blue Collar" which pay well with good benefits without having a College Degree.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Genx87
Indeed, these people should be the poster children for why getting more than a highschool or GED education is a must in our country.

So they can sit at home with thousands in debt and plaster their resume all over the 'net while trying to figure out if working at McD or WM is a way out of their current misfortunes?

As you might be able to tell, I'm not a big fan of the "college is a must" mentality.

I know a fair amount of successful people who have no college or dropped out.

I think it is more "How much do you want?" and "How hard are you willing to work to get there?"

Sure there is a rare instance of people who dont have college degrees or even highschool degrees making it big. The founder of Wendys is a great example. But they are not the norm and they are obviously very intelligent people. Telling people you dont need an education to succeed is like telling a fat person they dont need a healthy diet. In other words it is doing them a diservice telling them that.

When resumes are flying around many managers will note educational experience first. If you have "Highschool" they will toss it out before bothering to look at your experience level. Dont believe me? Ask the average manager how long he looks at each of the hundreds of resumes he has on his desk. Average time I last heard was about 15 seconds. They are looking for keywords and highschool isnt one of them.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: KevinH

Originally posted by: Train
Damn dude, the McDonalds in my neighborhood STARTS at $9/hr

WTF? Are you serious? Fast food was paying minimum wage when I wasin HS and that was a whopping 4.75 by in the early 90's. Jesus....

McDonalds has been paying 7-8 dollars since the mid 90s around here and is more like 10-11 bucks now.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: alchemize
Welcome to life as an unskilled high-school graduate (maybe)!

Indeed, these people should be the poster children for why getting more than a highschool or GED education is a must in our country.

Sure there may be a few college grads who dont want to aspire to anything more than a low skilled 12 dollar an hour laborer. But I am guessing the majority of these people hit have highschool educations and that is it.

If people with College educations become plentiful won't their worth decrease too? Look at the IT sector for example.

BTW there are plenty of well paying jobs for those with just High School educations especially in the Building Trades. Of course those are skilled jobs and to be successful one "usually" has to go to a Trade School and/ an Apprenticeship program. You can also become an Auto Mechanic, a Welder, a HiVac Technician, Truck Diver, Heavy Equipment Operator and a lot of other occupations considered "Blue Collar" which pay well with good benefits without having a College Degree.

Sure it will but that is the natual evolution of anything. 100 years ago a highschool education was a big deal. I bet in 30 years a masters will be the minimum requirement for many jobs that today require a 4 year college degree.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: alchemize
Welcome to life as an unskilled high-school graduate (maybe)!

Indeed, these people should be the poster children for why getting more than a highschool or GED education is a must in our country.

Sure there may be a few college grads who dont want to aspire to anything more than a low skilled 12 dollar an hour laborer. But I am guessing the majority of these people hit have highschool educations and that is it.

If people with College educations become plentiful won't their worth decrease too? Look at the IT sector for example.

BTW there are plenty of well paying jobs for those with just High School educations especially in the Building Trades. Of course those are skilled jobs and to be successful one "usually" has to go to a Trade School and/ an Apprenticeship program. You can also become an Auto Mechanic, a Welder, a HiVac Technician, Truck Diver, Heavy Equipment Operator and a lot of other occupations considered "Blue Collar" which pay well with good benefits without having a College Degree.

Sure it will but that is the natual evolution of anything. 100 years ago a highschool education was a big deal. I bet in 30 years a masters will be the minimum requirement for many jobs that today require a 4 year college degree.

And a Union Carpenter with no College Degree will still make more than them.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: alchemize
Welcome to life as an unskilled high-school graduate (maybe)!

Indeed, these people should be the poster children for why getting more than a highschool or GED education is a must in our country.

Sure there may be a few college grads who dont want to aspire to anything more than a low skilled 12 dollar an hour laborer. But I am guessing the majority of these people hit have highschool educations and that is it.

If people with College educations become plentiful won't their worth decrease too? Look at the IT sector for example.

BTW there are plenty of well paying jobs for those with just High School educations especially in the Building Trades. Of course those are skilled jobs and to be successful one "usually" has to go to a Trade School and/ an Apprenticeship program. You can also become an Auto Mechanic, a Welder, a HiVac Technician, Truck Diver, Heavy Equipment Operator and a lot of other occupations considered "Blue Collar" which pay well with good benefits without having a College Degree.

Sure it will but that is the natual evolution of anything. 100 years ago a highschool education was a big deal. I bet in 30 years a masters will be the minimum requirement for many jobs that today require a 4 year college degree.

And a Union Carpenter with no College Degree will still make more than them.

For now maybe, but isnt this thread about Union unskilled workers getting a 9 dollar an hour wage offer?

 

[marvdmartian]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: marvdmartian
The truly sad part about all of this is that even if Delphi gets some huge wage cuts, which will save them a ton of money, and thus make it cheaper for them to make the parts they make......

....it will not make even one cent difference in the price they charge for those parts. And even if they did drop their prices, it wouldn't drop the price of the vehicles that get those parts.

Typical corporation. Stick it to the workers, stick it to the consumers, and the board will get some huge bonuses for doing all of that! :roll:

Corporations are formed to create wealth and profit for the owners of the company. Not to be an entitlement program for the local population.

This issue of paying 12,000 people 31 bucks an hour to sit around could fix a lot problems. That is about 700 million a year in wages they could wipe away if they simply got rid of that joke of a program.

Yeah, I'd have to agree with you there. But my point is that even if Delphi brought in minimum wage workers, the over-inflated price of their product, caused in part by the overpaid barely skilled workers they have now, would not drop even one cent. I agree with the sentiment that paying someone to sit on their keister is just stupid, but if Delphi kicked themselves in the butt on that one, they shouldn't be hurting the workers, they should be kicking out whatever management morons caused that mess.

I do think that the workers are going to have to take a pay cut, if they want to save their jobs. Hopefully the union will be reasonable in this endeavor, and not take the hard line approach of no cuts. If they do, then I hope that the workers will have enough sense to tell the union to shut up, and offer a pay cut of their own. Too often, unions seem more interested in protecting their own interests than those of the workers they're supposed to be representing.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: alchemize
Welcome to life as an unskilled high-school graduate (maybe)!

Indeed, these people should be the poster children for why getting more than a highschool or GED education is a must in our country.

Sure there may be a few college grads who dont want to aspire to anything more than a low skilled 12 dollar an hour laborer. But I am guessing the majority of these people hit have highschool educations and that is it.

If people with College educations become plentiful won't their worth decrease too? Look at the IT sector for example.

BTW there are plenty of well paying jobs for those with just High School educations especially in the Building Trades. Of course those are skilled jobs and to be successful one "usually" has to go to a Trade School and/ an Apprenticeship program. You can also become an Auto Mechanic, a Welder, a HiVac Technician, Truck Diver, Heavy Equipment Operator and a lot of other occupations considered "Blue Collar" which pay well with good benefits without having a College Degree.

Sure it will but that is the natual evolution of anything. 100 years ago a highschool education was a big deal. I bet in 30 years a masters will be the minimum requirement for many jobs that today require a 4 year college degree.

And a Union Carpenter with no College Degree will still make more than them.

For now maybe, but isnt this thread about Union unskilled workers getting a 9 dollar an hour wage offer?

Well I was commenting on other's comments in this thread that High School Educated People shouldn't expect good wages. Also, do you believe everybody that works for Delphi is unskilled?

 

[TStep]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: alchemize
Welcome to life as an unskilled high-school graduate (maybe)!

Indeed, these people should be the poster children for why getting more than a highschool or GED education is a must in our country.

Sure there may be a few college grads who dont want to aspire to anything more than a low skilled 12 dollar an hour laborer. But I am guessing the majority of these people hit have highschool educations and that is it.

If people with College educations become plentiful won't their worth decrease too? Look at the IT sector for example.

BTW there are plenty of well paying jobs for those with just High School educations especially in the Building Trades. Of course those are skilled jobs and to be successful one "usually" has to go to a Trade School and/ an Apprenticeship program. You can also become an Auto Mechanic, a Welder, a HiVac Technician, Truck Diver, Heavy Equipment Operator and a lot of other occupations considered "Blue Collar" which pay well with good benefits without having a College Degree.

Sure it will but that is the natual evolution of anything. 100 years ago a highschool education was a big deal. I bet in 30 years a masters will be the minimum requirement for many jobs that today require a 4 year college degree.

And a Union Carpenter with no College Degree will still make more than them.

as will a non-union carpenter on a federally funded project.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Sure there is a rare instance of people who dont have college degrees or even highschool degrees making it big. The founder of Wendys is a great example. But they are not the norm and they are obviously very intelligent people. Telling people you dont need an education to succeed is like telling a fat person they dont need a healthy diet. In other words it is doing them a diservice telling them that.

I'd never suggest to anyone NOT to go the college route. I'm just saying I don't personally agree with the "MUST" mentality. There's no argument that your opportunities and pay will be higher given that education.

When resumes are flying around many managers will note educational experience first. If you have "Highschool" they will toss it out before bothering to look at your experience level. Dont believe me? Ask the average manager how long he looks at each of the hundreds of resumes he has on his desk. Average time I last heard was about 15 seconds. They are looking for keywords and highschool isnt one of them.

Absolutely true.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Genx87
Indeed, these people should be the poster children for why getting more than a highschool or GED education is a must in our country.

So they can sit at home with thousands in debt and plaster their resume all over the 'net while trying to figure out if working at McD or WM is a way out of their current misfortunes?

As you might be able to tell, I'm not a big fan of the "college is a must" mentality.

I know a fair amount of successful people who have no college or dropped out.

I think it is more "How much do you want?" and "How hard are you willing to work to get there?"

Sure there is a rare instance of people who dont have college degrees or even highschool degrees making it big. The founder of Wendys is a great example. But they are not the norm and they are obviously very intelligent people. Telling people you dont need an education to succeed is like telling a fat person they dont need a healthy diet. In other words it is doing them a diservice telling them that.

When resumes are flying around many managers will note educational experience first. If you have "Highschool" they will toss it out before bothering to look at your experience level. Dont believe me? Ask the average manager how long he looks at each of the hundreds of resumes he has on his desk. Average time I last heard was about 15 seconds. They are looking for keywords and highschool isnt one of them.

7 secons is what i heard