Dec. CGW has X1800XT and XL reviewed

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: RampantAndroid
ATI is buggered either way...the XL costs what a GTX costs...not what a GT costs....so which will you buy, a $350 7800GT, or a lesser performing $450 XL? Then we get the the XT....prob another $100 difference....where does that put the R580? I don't want to know....

ATI may be dual card solution, and the 7800s may be single, but I'm sick of these darned blowers that are made on $.05 bugets and die after less than 100 hrs of use.....plus, the bearings are buried so you can't oil them. Everyone needs to revamp their cooling solutions, seriously. Stop making us buy VF700s or NV/ATI silencers just to get some peace and quite.


If the X1800XT is noisy (screechy) a 5800 Ultra comparison is in order. Numbers show it won't beat the 7800 GTX, which makes it #2. As you may remember, the 5800 wasn't the best, and it was damn loud....hence why nVidia realised their foley, removed it from the market, and released the 5900Ultra (an very good card.)

Everyone insists on bashing rollo....I will bash him for changing his avatar, but that's all. ATI is dug themselves a hole....for those extra 6 months, they have nothing to show. No crossfire that can defeat SLI, no GTX killers, not even a single slot cooling solution. ATI has always been clocking their cards higher just to keep up with nVidia.....

please check prices before making such obviously false statements

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: RampantAndroid


If the X1800XT is noisy (screechy) a 5800 Ultra comparison is in order. Numbers show it won't beat the 7800 GTX, which makes it #2.

ATI is dug themselves a hole....for those extra 6 months, they have nothing to show. No crossfire that can defeat SLI, no GTX killers, not even a single slot cooling solution. ATI has always been clocking their cards higher just to keep up with nVidia.....

Originally posted by: RampantAndroid


Name other games? OK, lets dance: BF2, Doom3, Q4 previews, Far Cry, Splinter Cell....all those games that have always done better on nVidia, continue to do so.


ATI was already late on this videocard release, by 6 months. They lost a good ammount of money there to nVidia's uncontested 7800GTX, and GT. Now that they have released, they hdon't have comparable pricing, and will continue to loose til they do.

All right "O Enlightened One", let's see if we can help you out a bit. Take a look at the high res benchmarks with 4AA enabled, which is where these cards will be played at.


BF2
FarCry
Splinter Cell
Quake 4
More Quake 4

Yup, definetely looks like the X1800XT comes in 2nd place. Hardcore pummelage by the 7800GTX. Try a Google search sometime and you'll find plenty more reviews.

I'll try to find some recent Doom3 benchmarks which should be interesting with the better OpenGL drivers. Here is a comparison of the old and new OpenGL drivers. If the 7800GTX is still in the lead it isn't by that much.

 

[JPB]

Then we get the the XT


ATI is dug themselves a hole




^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^LMAO

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: x80064
But he has said....once it comes out...But speaking of cards that has been reviewed, yes....it is the fastest card that we know about..

No, you're wrong like Ackmed, the Asus dual 7800GT card is the fastest card we've seen reviewed and will totally own a X1800XT in many situaions:

Fastest upcoming card we've seen benched

fastest single core card

i wonder when an ATi partner will put two cores on a PCB

That would be fun, I would love to link to the card with the big rubber dongle going from one side of the board to the other.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: RampantAndroid
I will bash him for changing his avatar, but that's all.

Hmmm, that was seemingly a big deal to people, I'll change it back. Really just felt like a change.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Zstream
Who says the XT is loud? why dont you say OMG the 6800 series is loud! and saying the GT is better then the XL you are mistaken by alot. Especially now that the open gl drivers are fixed. I could point to multiple sites that show this. Get your fact straight BUD!

Everyone says the X1800XT is loud? If the only things louder than it are two cards and the reference cooler on the 6800Ultra, it's pretty loud.

And CGW said it was load under load, not at boot up, as some XL owners have been reporting.

And the "OpenGL fix" is not available to the public, AFAIK. (sort of like the XT)

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: x80064
But he has said....once it comes out...But speaking of cards that has been reviewed, yes....it is the fastest card that we know about..

No, you're wrong like Ackmed, the Asus dual 7800GT card is the fastest card we've seen reviewed and will totally own a X1800XT in many situaions:

Fastest upcoming card we've seen benched

fastest single core card

i wonder when an ATi partner will put two cores on a PCB

That would be fun, I would love to link to the card with the big rubber dongle going from one side of the board to the other.

Lol. I don't agree with you most of the time Rollo but that was funny.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Link Want to go for lowest priced? OK....

Now to some quotes....


In resolutions above 1024x768 RADEON X1800 XL fails to outperform the previous generation solution, namely RADEON X850 XT PE, not to mention GeForce 7800 GT. So, I would say that the performance of ATI newcomers in Prince of Persia: Warrior Within isn?t really that impressive.


While the speed provided by the RADEON X1800 XT should be enough to play the game, it is outperformed by the GeForce 7800 GTX by 35%. Due to lower core and memory speeds, the RADEON X1800 XL is even slower compared to the RADEON X850 XT Platinum Edition (PE).

The gap between competitors does not shrink even in the eye candy mode. The RADEON X1800-series is constantly slower compared to the competing GeForce 7800 lineup in the Chronicles of Riddick game.
We can observe the same picture in another demo sequence recorded in Doom III. While the numbers are generally higher, the gap between the top-end offerings has shrunk for sure. The RADEON X1800 XL, unfortunately, cannot manage to compete really well the GeForce 7800 GT.

Far cry: The model X1800 XL cannot beat the model 7800 GT, even despite of allegedly more efficient memory controller.

Pariah: All the graphics cards deliver awesome results, but as the resolution grows, the GeForce 7800 GTX take the lead. Perhaps, there is a problem with the ATI?s drivers for the new RADEON X1800-series, perhaps, computational power of the 7800 GTX is simply unbeatable?

Well, the new RADEON based graphics cards failed to work wonders here. RADEON X1800 XT and RADEON X1800 XL performed equally fast in low resolutions, which points at a definite issue with the OpenGL driver. However, in high resolutions RADEON X1800 didn?t show anything remarkable. Only in 1600x1200 with enabled anti-aliasing, the top ATI RADEON model manages to perform at least close to GeForce 6800 Ultra. Here I would like to point out that despite their evident defeat, ATI RADEON X1800 XT/XL based graphics cards provide acceptable gaming performance in all resolutions except only 1600x1200 with enabled FSAA and anisotropic filtering.

Lock On has often surprised us with pretty unexpected results, but this time there were no surprises: driver issues prevented ATI RADEON X1800 from reaching even the 28-30fps rate, which is the maximum any known graphics adapter has ever reached in this game. The indirect evidence that we should blame the driver again is the identical performance of the RADEON X1800 XT and XL models with up to 0.7fps precision. GeForce 7800 GTX/GT behave practically the same in pure gaming mode, however, unlike their ATI competitors they manage to reach the maximum performance rate

Sure, the X1000 series does some spanking every now and then (wait, I mean the X1800XT 512 MB against the 256 MB 7800 GTX if I am not mistaken) The XL really gets spanked, and never really does any spanking of its own....

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: x80064

Are you referring to this $500 card ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102612

Yes, he's referring to that $389 OEM card that gets outperformed by a $299 7800GT, leaving the user with better performance and about $100 in his pocket.

 

[KeepItRed]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Ackmed
The XT is overall the fastest card, once it comes out.

The XT is NOT the fastest card Ackmed.

The 7800GTX is the fastest card you can buy.

I think your missing something. Ackmed said WHEN IT COMES OUT.

I don't think 430Mhz is faster than 625Mhz, Rollo.

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: RampantAndroid
Want to go for lowest priced? OK....http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications...tails.asp?EdpNo=1549681&Tab=1&NoMapp=0">Link</a>

Now to some quotes....


In resolutions above 1024x768 RADEON X1800 XL fails to outperform the previous generation solution, namely RADEON X850 XT PE, not to mention GeForce 7800 GT. So, I would say that the performance of ATI newcomers in Prince of Persia: Warrior Within isn?t really that impressive.


While the speed provided by the RADEON X1800 XT should be enough to play the game, it is outperformed by the GeForce 7800 GTX by 35%. Due to lower core and memory speeds, the RADEON X1800 XL is even slower compared to the RADEON X850 XT Platinum Edition (PE).

The gap between competitors does not shrink even in the eye candy mode. The RADEON X1800-series is constantly slower compared to the competing GeForce 7800 lineup in the Chronicles of Riddick game.
We can observe the same picture in another demo sequence recorded in Doom III. While the numbers are generally higher, the gap between the top-end offerings has shrunk for sure. The RADEON X1800 XL, unfortunately, cannot manage to compete really well the GeForce 7800 GT.

Far cry: The model X1800 XL cannot beat the model 7800 GT, even despite of allegedly more efficient memory controller.

Pariah: All the graphics cards deliver awesome results, but as the resolution grows, the GeForce 7800 GTX take the lead. Perhaps, there is a problem with the ATI?s drivers for the new RADEON X1800-series, perhaps, computational power of the 7800 GTX is simply unbeatable?

Well, the new RADEON based graphics cards failed to work wonders here. RADEON X1800 XT and RADEON X1800 XL performed equally fast in low resolutions, which points at a definite issue with the OpenGL driver. However, in high resolutions RADEON X1800 didn?t show anything remarkable. Only in 1600x1200 with enabled anti-aliasing, the top ATI RADEON model manages to perform at least close to GeForce 6800 Ultra. Here I would like to point out that despite their evident defeat, ATI RADEON X1800 XT/XL based graphics cards provide acceptable gaming performance in all resolutions except only 1600x1200 with enabled FSAA and anisotropic filtering.

Lock On has often surprised us with pretty unexpected results, but this time there were no surprises: driver issues prevented ATI RADEON X1800 from reaching even the 28-30fps rate, which is the maximum any known graphics adapter has ever reached in this game. The indirect evidence that we should blame the driver again is the identical performance of the RADEON X1800 XT and XL models with up to 0.7fps precision. GeForce 7800 GTX/GT behave practically the same in pure gaming mode, however, unlike their ATI competitors they manage to reach the maximum performance rate

Sure, the X1000 series does some spanking every now and then (wait, I mean the X1800XT 512 MB against the 256 MB 7800 GTX if I am not mistaken) The XL really gets spanked, and never really does any spanking of its own....

Hmm, not finding any video card prices on the Microsoft page you linked me to. Was that just a decoy to throw us off the scent???

If you're replying to my post I guess I'm a little confused. Pariah, Lock On, Chronicles of Riddick, nor Prince of Persia were ever mentioned so I'm not sure why you're quoting someone about them. Especially given the fact that they're not exactly the games that everyone raves about. Who are these quotes from anyway?? A link would be nice.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: RampantAndroid


If the X1800XT is noisy (screechy) a 5800 Ultra comparison is in order. Numbers show it won't beat the 7800 GTX, which makes it #2.

ATI is dug themselves a hole....for those extra 6 months, they have nothing to show. No crossfire that can defeat SLI, no GTX killers, not even a single slot cooling solution. ATI has always been clocking their cards higher just to keep up with nVidia.....

Originally posted by: RampantAndroid


Name other games? OK, lets dance: BF2, Doom3, Q4 previews, Far Cry, Splinter Cell....all those games that have always done better on nVidia, continue to do so.


ATI was already late on this videocard release, by 6 months. They lost a good ammount of money there to nVidia's uncontested 7800GTX, and GT. Now that they have released, they hdon't have comparable pricing, and will continue to loose til they do.

All right "O Enlightened One", let's see if we can help you out a bit. Take a look at the high res benchmarks with 4AA enabled, which is where these cards will be played at.


BF2
FarCry
Splinter Cell
Quake 4
More Quake 4

Yup, definetely looks like the X1800XT comes in 2nd place. Hardcore pummelage by the 7800GTX. Try a Google search sometime and you'll find plenty more reviews.

I'll try to find some recent Doom3 benchmarks which should be interesting with the better OpenGL drivers. Here is a comparison of the old and new OpenGL drivers. If the 7800GTX is still in the lead it isn't by that much.

There are problems with the X1800XT testing we've seen so far, namely that they never seem to want to compare it to the many 490/1300 7800GTXs currently available (unlike the X1800XT Phantom Edition) and now they've taken to using beta drivers supplied only to reviewers, like in your Quake 4 links.

Think about that: non public drivers on a non public card. I say we can't base anything on that, and that when X1800XTs are in stores they should be compared to whatever nVidias best is at the time.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Clock cycles don't equal performance....when he says fastest, I'll bet he means in performance. Look at AMD v Intel....the 2.6 GHz FX55 outdoes a 3.6-3.8 GHz P4...like I said, clock cycles mean crap between core architectures.

 

[RampantAndroid]

I fixed the link....use your brain, look at the link and fix it. Isn't that hard.

The quotes are from the article you gave me, fool. You want to compare cards, compare them. There's more out there than far cry, HL2 and D3.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Originally posted by: Rollo

There are problems with the X1800XT testing we've seen so far, namely that they never seem to want to compare it to the many 490/1300 7800GTXs currently available (unlike the X1800XT Phantom Edition) and now they've taken to using beta drivers supplied only to reviewers, like in your Quake 4 links.

Think about that: non public drivers on a non public card. I say we can't base anything on that, and that when X1800XTs are in stores they should be compared to whatever nVidias best is at the time.

I forget where I saw it, but there was an "apples to apples" review, comparing the 7800GT at stcock speeds, to a X1800XL clocked exactly the same....we can guess what won that war.....(OK, maybe some can, the 7800 did)

And a very good point on the drivers......

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: Rollo

There are problems with the X1800XT testing we've seen so far, namely that they never seem to want to compare it to the many 490/1300 7800GTXs currently available (unlike the X1800XT Phantom Edition) and now they've taken to using beta drivers supplied only to reviewers, like in your Quake 4 links.

Think about that: non public drivers on a non public card. I say we can't base anything on that, and that when X1800XTs are in stores they should be compared to whatever nVidias best is at the time.

I agree with you Rollo as far as the comparisons go. I'd like to see more tests with the top-clocked 7800GTXs as that would be a more fair comparison. Although from my own testing with my 7800GTX, I really don't gain that much clocking down to 420Mhz on the core and than raising it up to 490MHz. Generally it was a gain of ~5-6fps at 1600x1200 4AA/8AF.

As far as drivers go I guess it depends on how much you trust the review sites using them. If they are really unbiased than they will mention if they see any IQ drop or see any strange anomolies with the beta drivers. Some review sites I wouldn't trust far at all (THG cough cough) but others I respect a lot and I'd trust the numbers they publish.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: x80064

Are you referring to this $500 card ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102612

Yes, he's referring to that $389 OEM card that gets outperformed by a $299 7800GT, leaving the user with better performance and about $100 in his pocket.

doesnt make the $500 assesment any more correct because the 7800 GT performs better and is cheaper

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: x80064
But he has said....once it comes out...But speaking of cards that has been reviewed, yes....it is the fastest card that we know about..

No, you're wrong like Ackmed, the Asus dual 7800GT card is the fastest card we've seen reviewed and will totally own a X1800XT in many situaions:

Fastest upcoming card we've seen benched

fastest single core card

i wonder when an ATi partner will put two cores on a PCB

That would be fun, I would love to link to the card with the big rubber dongle going from one side of the board to the other.

The dongle issue is blown way out of proportion IMO

and why would you need a dongle for two cores on the same PCB???

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: RampantAndroid
Link Want to go for lowest priced? OK....

Now to some quotes....


In resolutions above 1024x768 RADEON X1800 XL fails to outperform the previous generation solution, namely RADEON X850 XT PE, not to mention GeForce 7800 GT. So, I would say that the performance of ATI newcomers in Prince of Persia: Warrior Within isn?t really that impressive.


While the speed provided by the RADEON X1800 XT should be enough to play the game, it is outperformed by the GeForce 7800 GTX by 35%. Due to lower core and memory speeds, the RADEON X1800 XL is even slower compared to the RADEON X850 XT Platinum Edition (PE).

The gap between competitors does not shrink even in the eye candy mode. The RADEON X1800-series is constantly slower compared to the competing GeForce 7800 lineup in the Chronicles of Riddick game.
We can observe the same picture in another demo sequence recorded in Doom III. While the numbers are generally higher, the gap between the top-end offerings has shrunk for sure. The RADEON X1800 XL, unfortunately, cannot manage to compete really well the GeForce 7800 GT.

Far cry: The model X1800 XL cannot beat the model 7800 GT, even despite of allegedly more efficient memory controller.

Pariah: All the graphics cards deliver awesome results, but as the resolution grows, the GeForce 7800 GTX take the lead. Perhaps, there is a problem with the ATI?s drivers for the new RADEON X1800-series, perhaps, computational power of the 7800 GTX is simply unbeatable?

Well, the new RADEON based graphics cards failed to work wonders here. RADEON X1800 XT and RADEON X1800 XL performed equally fast in low resolutions, which points at a definite issue with the OpenGL driver. However, in high resolutions RADEON X1800 didn?t show anything remarkable. Only in 1600x1200 with enabled anti-aliasing, the top ATI RADEON model manages to perform at least close to GeForce 6800 Ultra. Here I would like to point out that despite their evident defeat, ATI RADEON X1800 XT/XL based graphics cards provide acceptable gaming performance in all resolutions except only 1600x1200 with enabled FSAA and anisotropic filtering.

Lock On has often surprised us with pretty unexpected results, but this time there were no surprises: driver issues prevented ATI RADEON X1800 from reaching even the 28-30fps rate, which is the maximum any known graphics adapter has ever reached in this game. The indirect evidence that we should blame the driver again is the identical performance of the RADEON X1800 XT and XL models with up to 0.7fps precision. GeForce 7800 GTX/GT behave practically the same in pure gaming mode, however, unlike their ATI competitors they manage to reach the maximum performance rate

Sure, the X1000 series does some spanking every now and then (wait, I mean the X1800XT 512 MB against the 256 MB 7800 GTX if I am not mistaken) The XL really gets spanked, and never really does any spanking of its own....

yes there is a $300 GT
yes the 7800GT out performs the XL

no, this doesnt change the fact that the XL isnt $500

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: KeepItRed

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Ackmed
The XT is overall the fastest card, once it comes out.

The XT is NOT the fastest card Ackmed.

The 7800GTX is the fastest card you can buy.

I think your missing something. Ackmed said WHEN IT COMES OUT.

I don't think 430Mhz is faster than 625Mhz, Rollo.

Your statement is misleading:
625MHz X 16 pipelines is a fillrate of 10000.
430MHz X 24 is a fillrate of 10320.

You're missing something too:
There are already several 490/1300 7800GTXs (XFX, EVGA, Asus, and Leadtek) and you really don't know what nVidia will have out by the time the Phantom Edition materializes.

Will the rumors of an "Ultra" be true?

Will the clocks on the rumored 512MB GTX be the same?

For that matter, we already know the Asus Dual 7800GT cards will smoke a X1800XT, so the ONLY bittersweet title ATI even has a chance at is "Fastest Single GPU Card, at Some Games".

 

[RampantAndroid]

Jesus, I misquoted it...my point isn't so much the exact price, but the difference in prices.

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: RampantAndroid
I fixed the link....use your brain, look at the link and fix it. Isn't that hard.

The quotes are from the article you gave me, fool. You want to compare cards, compare them. There's more out there than far cry, HL2 and D3.

Alright, I shouldn't have gotten on your case about the link. I'm sure I've linked to the wrong site before.

As far as FarCry and Doom3 are concerned, you are the one that asked to dance remember. You said that the Nvidia cards had better performance in BF2, Q4, FarCry, Splinter Cell, and Doom3. I linked to a reputable review site that shows just the opposite (except for D3). Don't get mad at me if your original statement was flawed.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: Rollo

There are problems with the X1800XT testing we've seen so far, namely that they never seem to want to compare it to the many 490/1300 7800GTXs currently available (unlike the X1800XT Phantom Edition) and now they've taken to using beta drivers supplied only to reviewers, like in your Quake 4 links.

Think about that: non public drivers on a non public card. I say we can't base anything on that, and that when X1800XTs are in stores they should be compared to whatever nVidias best is at the time.

I agree with you Rollo as far as the comparisons go. I'd like to see more tests with the top-clocked 7800GTXs as that would be a more fair comparison. Although from my own testing with my 7800GTX, I really don't gain that much clocking down to 420Mhz on the core and than raising it up to 490MHz. Generally it was a gain of ~5-6fps at 1600x1200 4AA/8AF.

As far as drivers go I guess it depends on how much you trust the review sites using them. If they are really unbiased than they will mention if they see any IQ drop or see any strange anomolies with the beta drivers. Some review sites I wouldn't trust far at all (THG cough cough) but others I respect a lot and I'd trust the numbers they publish.

The problem with beta drivers is they may work great for what their designed for but never pass WHQL or be released even due to other problems.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: KeepItRed

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Ackmed
The XT is overall the fastest card, once it comes out.

The XT is NOT the fastest card Ackmed.

The 7800GTX is the fastest card you can buy.

I think your missing something. Ackmed said WHEN IT COMES OUT.

I don't think 430Mhz is faster than 625Mhz, Rollo.

Your statement is misleading:
625MHz X 16 pipelines is a fillrate of 10000.
430MHz X 24 is a fillrate of 10320.

You're missing something too:
There are already several 490/1300 7800GTXs (XFX, EVGA, Asus, and Leadtek) and you really don't know what nVidia will have out by the time the Phantom Edition materializes.

Will the rumors of an "Ultra" be true?

Will the clocks on the rumored 512MB GTX be the same?

For that matter, we already know the Asus Dual 7800GT cards will smoke a X1800XT, so the ONLY bittersweet title ATI even has a chance at is "Fastest Single GPU Card, at Some Games".

fillrate is great and all, but concrete FPS in games is a bit more important

i dont understand how this is a Phantom Edition card already when its not scheduled to released until next month? is the 7800 ultra a phantom edition card as well then? what about the asus dual?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
fillrate is great and all, but concrete FPS in games is a bit more important

i dont understand how this is a Phantom Edition card already when its not scheduled to released until next month? is the 7800 ultra a phantom edition card as well then? what about the asus dual?

You're missing the point:
He said there's no way a 430MHz card will beat a 625MHz card, and I was pointing out MHz are misleading at best.

My 2.4GHz 4600+ beats lots of much high clocked Intel products.

The 430Mhz 7800GTX annihilates the 540MHz X850.

And yes, the 7800GTX does still win some benchmarks over the paper launched MIA X1800XT.