Cops Raid FLDS Compound in Texas

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: piasabird
So if they can not identify or find the person that called in and made the complaint would the courts rule that the warrant is invalid and throw out all evidence found?

No.
Its like if I called the police anonymously and told them I thought you murdered someone in your house, but I didn't have proof or know who it was.
The police are required to investigate in cases of bodily harm.
They might come to your house and ask to just walk around.
If you refuse they can go and get a warrant to enter the house and look around.

Now just because they have a warrant does not mean they could enter your house, go through everything you have, etc. Warrants have limits on them when they are taken out.
Its not a license to do whatever they want.

In this case it was probably to enter the property and speak with the girl or any witnesses to verify the claims. Apparently they found something because they arrested the man.

 

[piasabird]

I think they need to come up with a common sense solution. Why move both the men and women and the children from their homes? It does not make sense. Just remove the men and let the women run the property or some kind of third party mange it like a project. They had factories and stuff there. Make the men run that and build them a barracks stockade. They can run the property as a work prison.

 

[Modelworks]

They haven't even brought in the big dogs yet, the IRS.
They were receiving funds from various questionable sources.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: piasabird
I think they need to come up with a common sense solution. Why move both the men and women and the children from their homes? It does not make sense. Just remove the men and let the women run the property or some kind of third party mange it like a project. They had factories and stuff there. Make the men run that and build them a barracks stockade. They can run the property as a work prison.

Well, they said today that the government is no longer on the property.
They left the male members there to carry on with whatever it is they do.

A question I have is how were they handling medical issues ?
They had a clinic, but what if someone had a troubled pregnancy ?
Surely they were not going to send a pregnant 12 year old to the nearest hospital.
Too many questions.

I think we will learn of many tragic things in the weeks to come.

 

[Arkaign]

A whole lot of people are going to go down for this. Those girls and women that came out will have plenty to testify about.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

What's really sad to me is the vast majority of these 500+ people are direct relatives (children,grandchildren,great grandchildren) of Jeffs senior or junior

For over 50yrs this crap has gone on, and Jeffs and his decendents have run a Caligula style sex camp under the name of religion. I would pull that son of a gun out of his cell and hang him from the highest tree. I'm getting rather sick of people commiting henious crimes in the name of some misguided religion.

(Hint)
When your religious leaders tell you to take a life in the name of your religion, or rape underage children in the name of your religion, maybe it's time to start questioning your faith in these leaders

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
A whole lot of people are going to go down for this. Those girls and women that came out will have plenty to testify about.

Those women aren't exactly innocents in this, either. If a mother is an active participant in the abuse of her young daughters, she's just as culpable as the men.

It takes a village.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: piasabird
I think they need to come up with a common sense solution. Why move both the men and women and the children from their homes? It does not make sense. Just remove the men and let the women run the property or some kind of third party mange it like a project. They had factories and stuff there. Make the men run that and build them a barracks stockade. They can run the property as a work prison.

Why do you insist males = "bad" and females = "good?" This is a rather sexist notion of what it takes to create a cult like this.

 

[shira]

What I wanna know is how come you never hear about some 18-year-old hottie being forced to marry a pimply-faced 12-year-old boy?

That was the kind of cult I day-dreamed about in junior-high math class.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Arkaign
A whole lot of people are going to go down for this. Those girls and women that came out will have plenty to testify about.

Those women aren't exactly innocents in this, either. If a mother is an active participant in the abuse of her young daughters, she's just as culpable as the men.

It takes a village.

Agreed, to a point. Though you must realize that most of those women grew up with FLDS indoctrination/abuse, and their concepts of what is right/wrong is seriously inhibited.

 

[eleison]

Originally posted by: rchiu


Witch hunt my @ss. The fact that there were minors in the compound with babies, and minors pregnant with babies is enough to convict those responsible for the compound sex offenders. It's sickening to see some people here actually condone 12, 13, 14 year old girls being forced into sex and marriage, being abused and brainwashed, and their entire life taken away. You people really need to take a good look at yourself and think about what kind of human being you are.

In the United States, it is usually "innocent until proven guilty". Apparently, there were US government informants working on this case for "years", but yet there are no major charges -- no video records, no taped conversations, etc. Where is the evidence that 12 year old girls were being raped -- there is none, but yet people insist that it happen (even this very thread)? All hearsay provided by the government and given to the media to condone what they are doing. The sad thing is that the general public is eating this sheit up like lap dogs!!! Think people!!!

After its all done and said, there will be very little if no charges. Remember this all happened because of one 16 year old who if I am reading correctly anonymously called the FBI and accused a person of rape -- I'm not saying she is lying but there have been cases of false accusations before. Conveniently for the FBI, they cannot even find her even though they had a surprise raid on the church and the building. Not to mention hauling out tons of stuff.

Witch hunt. As a rational person, I demand proof or at least some evidence before I condemn someone. The biggest "evidence" the the government is showing off is a bed in the church -- not proof enough. My pastor had a bed that he used to rest in after his long hours of preaching. .



Yes people were being herded away like cattle and all they found was a bed:

http://www.11alive.com/assetpo...olygamy_250_040708.jpg

Right now, the government is not even allowing mothers to even talk to their own kids... as they are being "guarded" by police officers.

Raids have happened before. All they do is traumatize the kids and everyone involved.

"Raids Have Strengthened Polygamous Sect"
http://ap.google.com/article/A...48MdQJhJ7uGMAD8VUQQ8O0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...Oa6wYA&feature=related

Witch hunts!!!.. even with the informants and the illegal warrants, all they have is a bed!!!! Ridiculous!!! No evidence that a 12 year old got raped here.. if so where is the proof.. touting a bed does not count!!! what is happening here is a travesty for the kids involved and the government trying to justify what they are doing.

http://www.11alive.com/assetpo...olygamy_250_040708.jpg

 

[Arkaign]

Eleison, go read up on FLDS, the Jeffs, and so on. Their entire M.O. is to have the 'elders' marrying as many teenagers as possible, having as many kids as possible, as early as possible. At a minimum, you have serial polygamists in their 30s, 40s, and 50s (and beyond) marrying teenagers, probably underaged most of the time, then forcing them to have sex and children.

They're getting their asses thrown in jail, and good riddance.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Arkaign
A whole lot of people are going to go down for this. Those girls and women that came out will have plenty to testify about.

Those women aren't exactly innocents in this, either. If a mother is an active participant in the abuse of her young daughters, she's just as culpable as the men.

It takes a village.

Agreed, to a point. Though you must realize that most of those women grew up with FLDS indoctrination/abuse, and their concepts of what is right/wrong is seriously inhibited.

Wouldn't that apply to the men too?

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: eleison
ed[/L]

Witch hunts!!!.. even with the informants and the illegal warrants, all they have is a bed!!!! Ridiculous!!! No evidence that a 12 year old got raped here.. if so where is the proof.. touting a bed does not count!!! what is happening here is a travesty for the kids involved and the government trying to justify what they are doing.

http://www.11alive.com/assetpo...olygamy_250_040708.jpg

hrm, what about the 16 year olds with 4 children.
Or the 14 year old with 2 children.
You think they got that way through divine influence ?


The real travesty is that people like you would be comfortable with allowing something like this to happen. If you had your way the children could be raped and their tongues torn out so they couldn't speak, and you would be shouting "wheres the proof"

 

[eleison]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Eleison, go read up on FLDS, the Jeffs, and so on. Their entire M.O. is to have the 'elders' marrying as many teenagers as possible, having as many kids as possible, as early as possible. At a minimum, you have serial polygamists in their 30s, 40s, and 50s (and beyond) marrying teenagers, probably underaged most of the time, then forcing them to have sex and children.

They're getting their asses thrown in jail, and good riddance.

With all the wives being "force" to have sex with their husbands, you would expect a lot of them to leave their husbands after the police came to "liberate" them. This doesn't seem to be the case... most, if not all of the wives are staying with their kids and supporting their husbands.

Don't drink the government kool-aid......

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Arkaign
A whole lot of people are going to go down for this. Those girls and women that came out will have plenty to testify about.

Those women aren't exactly innocents in this, either. If a mother is an active participant in the abuse of her young daughters, she's just as culpable as the men.

It takes a village.

Agreed, to a point. Though you must realize that most of those women grew up with FLDS indoctrination/abuse, and their concepts of what is right/wrong is seriously inhibited.

Wouldn't that apply to the men too?

To a much lesser extent. In reading about the FLDS (there were some incredibly brutal murders in the early 80s by Fundy Mormons), it's clear that in many cases, excommunicated Mormons come to join FLDS and the like in order to live out a 'purer' version of Mormonism. Plural Marriage / Polygamy was a revelation from God to Joseph Smith, and was canonized into their Doctrine and Covenants in the 19th Century. So, if you are a Mormon, who believes that Joseph Smith was a prophet/revelator from God himself, then you must believe that all of the D&C is correct, right? Anyway, under political/legal pressure, the mainstream LDS church discarded that revelation in ~1890 or so, whilst secretly continuing it in their private communities. It thrived into the '20s, until federal and state pressure finally was too much to bear, and thence the Fundamentalist sects of Mormonism have always sprung.

It's a conundrum. If you believe J.S. and Mormonism, then it's a helluva stupid thing to say that God told him that Plural Marriage is A-Ok and great, then told someone else heading the Church a short time later that it was suddenly banned. I don't think God is wishy-washy with things like that, but that's just me.

 

[eleison]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: eleison
ed[/L]

Witch hunts!!!.. even with the informants and the illegal warrants, all they have is a bed!!!! Ridiculous!!! No evidence that a 12 year old got raped here.. if so where is the proof.. touting a bed does not count!!! what is happening here is a travesty for the kids involved and the government trying to justify what they are doing.

http://www.11alive.com/assetpo...olygamy_250_040708.jpg

hrm, what about the 16 year olds with 4 children.
Or the 14 year old with 2 children.
You think they got that way through divine influence ?

If they have proof then convict.. all they have now is a bed...

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Eleison, go read up on FLDS, the Jeffs, and so on. Their entire M.O. is to have the 'elders' marrying as many teenagers as possible, having as many kids as possible, as early as possible. At a minimum, you have serial polygamists in their 30s, 40s, and 50s (and beyond) marrying teenagers, probably underaged most of the time, then forcing them to have sex and children.

They're getting their asses thrown in jail, and good riddance.

With all the wives being "force" to have sex with their husbands, you would expect a lot of them to leave their husbands after the police came to "liberate" them. This doesn't seem to be the case... most, if not all of the wives are staying with their kids and supporting their husbands.

Don't drink the government kool-aid......

Speaking of Kool-aid, ever hear of Jim Jones? Religious indoctrination will inspire some rabidly antisocial and unhealthy behavior, even to the point of suicide. So the actions and stances of the women have little to do with anything.

Also, you should clearly understand that I'm almost always on the opposite side of supporting gov't/federal POV when there's a conflict. In Waco, Ruby Ridge, the raiding of Marijuana-for-cancer clinics, etc, I rail against the stupid Feds all day, but on this, I have to side with the boys in blue.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Eleison, go read up on FLDS, the Jeffs, and so on. Their entire M.O. is to have the 'elders' marrying as many teenagers as possible, having as many kids as possible, as early as possible. At a minimum, you have serial polygamists in their 30s, 40s, and 50s (and beyond) marrying teenagers, probably underaged most of the time, then forcing them to have sex and children.

They're getting their asses thrown in jail, and good riddance.

With all the wives being "force" to have sex with their husbands, you would expect a lot of them to leave their husbands after the police came to "liberate" them. This doesn't seem to be the case... most, if not all of the wives are staying with their kids and supporting their husbands.

Don't drink the government kool-aid......

You know nothing of abuse.
Ever spoken to a woman who has been beaten by her husband over the years ?
Those same women will go to court to defend that man that was beating on her.
When you are raised in that culture of abuse you do not know there is anything else.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: eleison
ed[/L]

Witch hunts!!!.. even with the informants and the illegal warrants, all they have is a bed!!!! Ridiculous!!! No evidence that a 12 year old got raped here.. if so where is the proof.. touting a bed does not count!!! what is happening here is a travesty for the kids involved and the government trying to justify what they are doing.

http://www.11alive.com/assetpo...olygamy_250_040708.jpg

hrm, what about the 16 year olds with 4 children.
Or the 14 year old with 2 children.
You think they got that way through divine influence ?

If they have proof then convict.. all they have now is a bed...

Maybe they're waiting for an appropriate venue - like, for instance, the initial hearing - to display evidence, instead of spewing out gory details of incest and sexual exploitation of minors on the six-o-clock news? I don't get the rush to declare guilt or innocence two days into this affair. You're pretty obviously not a neutral party.

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Eleison, go read up on FLDS, the Jeffs, and so on. Their entire M.O. is to have the 'elders' marrying as many teenagers as possible, having as many kids as possible, as early as possible. At a minimum, you have serial polygamists in their 30s, 40s, and 50s (and beyond) marrying teenagers, probably underaged most of the time, then forcing them to have sex and children.

They're getting their asses thrown in jail, and good riddance.

With all the wives being "force" to have sex with their husbands, you would expect a lot of them to leave their husbands after the police came to "liberate" them. This doesn't seem to be the case... most, if not all of the wives are staying with their kids and supporting their husbands.

Don't drink the government kool-aid......

Constantly abusing ellipses do not make your points more valid.

 

[eleison]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: eleison
ed[/L]

Witch hunts!!!.. even with the informants and the illegal warrants, all they have is a bed!!!! Ridiculous!!! No evidence that a 12 year old got raped here.. if so where is the proof.. touting a bed does not count!!! what is happening here is a travesty for the kids involved and the government trying to justify what they are doing.

http://www.11alive.com/assetpo...olygamy_250_040708.jpg

hrm, what about the 16 year olds with 4 children.
Or the 14 year old with 2 children.
You think they got that way through divine influence ?

If they have proof then convict.. all they have now is a bed...

Maybe they're waiting for an appropriate venue - like, for instance, the initial hearing - to display evidence, instead of spewing out gory details of incest and sexual exploitation of minors on the six-o-clock news? I don't get the rush to declare guilt or innocence two days into this affair. You're pretty obviously not a neutral party.

In other cases of abuse (Elizabeth Smart, etc.), where there is a preponderance of evidence, the government officials had no compunction with releasing or leaking details and information regarding the alleged abuses -- the only thing that were confidential were the names of the abused because they were young. But yet in this case, while the names are still confidential, there is no evidence except for the bed which they repeatedly tout as the "smoking gun" through the media.. why is this so?

Looks like they don't have any evidence... and they are trying desperately to find a reason to justify herding people like cattle... trying to find excuses for the surprise raid -- the witch hunt.

Neutrality is based on evidence.. there is none here...

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: yllus


What the hell are you talking about?

Your first paragraph made no sense whatsoever. Yes, in some parts of the world 14-year-old girls and younger are married off to much older men. Let me let you in on a little secret: That doesn't happen because that's the ideal marriage situation for that child. It happens because the parents need the dowry to stay afloat themselves, or because the extra mouth to feed is sinking them. Have you ever heard of a wealthy Middle Eastern family's daughter being married off at 12? It doesn't happen because those families don't have the fiscal incentive to do it. They rather properly raise, educate and let their daughter find a mate that makes her happy.

Your second paragraph made no sense whatsoever. You're equating what girls watch on television - which could, you know, be turned off by a parent if it's so objectionable - to being forced into an incestual relationship at puberty. You're not making a case for relative morality. You're making a case for absolute stupidity.

What are the charges? Gee, let's see what the second paragraph of the article states: "Since last week, they have interviewed members of the polygamist sect looking for evidence that that girls younger than 16 were forced into marriages with older men." I wonder what the charges the authorities are looking at filing? I'm guessing your ignorance you've displayed of foreign culture is an offshoot of your reading disability?

You know, normally I'd be a little nicer but the sleazy moral relativism of this post is something I find a little sickening. You would think people with the ability to read, write and use a computer would know better.

Maybe one day, more Americans will go overseas and see how the rest of the world lives. Obviously, you are very close-mindedness. In India, arranged marriages of young women to older men by the parent is a common thing. There have been studies that show that arrange marriages last longer and the couples are more happy. Scientist have speculated that this could be due to parents, who are older, are able to make better choices than young people.

Wow... I cannot believe how people can be so close minded. "You would think people with the ability to read, write and use a computer would know better" Actually, I know several people who had arrange marriages -- OOooh Nooess!!! Don't worry. The wife actually liked that she had an arrange marriage compared to the "Sex in the city" life that she sees on American TV. FYI, I'm not born in the States.

With respect to the raid of hundreds of people. Where are the charges? I think there were only one.. When this witch hunt ends, there will be a lot of people traumatized by the US government and their swat teams.. A lot of innocent people.

May I suggests you visit other cultures and learn from them. Having the "My cluture is always right" attitudes make people from other cultures and countries hate the USA.

the folowing URL shows how other people chose to live their lives, clicking on it may blow yllus mind. Yes, there are other cultures and ways of thinking.. ..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...0/AR2006082000113.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...Oa6wYA&feature=related

There are a lot of Americans who haven't visited other countries and seen cultures foreign to their own. There's also a lot who have. I am one who has and to listen to you talk down to us on culture and morals as though we're ignorant because we were born here is annoying to say the least. This country has more different peoples and cultures blended within it than most. I know (personally) a couple from another country who were an arranged marriage and they live like brother and sister. That doesn't mean all arranged marriages are bad but marriage stats are heavily influenced by laws regarding divorce. It's rather easy here in the US so we have a higher % than most. Some countries make it more difficult and are lower. It doesn't mean their marriages are 'better' though. Anyway I'm straying. This incident isn't about marriages or arranged marriages. It's about laws that were broken involving minors and adults.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Eleison, go read up on FLDS, the Jeffs, and so on. Their entire M.O. is to have the 'elders' marrying as many teenagers as possible, having as many kids as possible, as early as possible. At a minimum, you have serial polygamists in their 30s, 40s, and 50s (and beyond) marrying teenagers, probably underaged most of the time, then forcing them to have sex and children.

They're getting their asses thrown in jail, and good riddance.

With all the wives being "force" to have sex with their husbands, you would expect a lot of them to leave their husbands after the police came to "liberate" them. This doesn't seem to be the case... most, if not all of the wives are staying with their kids and supporting their husbands.

Don't drink the government kool-aid......

FFS there's young teens with multiple children and you want to defend it?

Here's a big :thumbsdown: to you and your 'elevated cultured awareness'.

 

[Wreckem]

Again you have no idea what you are talking about.

It is in ON GOING INVESTIGATION that started LESS THAN A WEEK AGO.

Law enforcement doesnt just come out with charges. Texas nor the FBI have said what they have.

Eleison has got to be FLDS or a pedophile. Because again no rational person would think 12-16 females indoctrinated from birth to believing having sex with 50+ year old men and having their children is right.

The only people who believe having sex and having children with young females is right are pedophiles or FLDS members.