Cops Raid FLDS Compound in Texas

[Cogman]

Please change the title. RLDS, FLDS, and the LDS church are all COMPLETELY different. Out of the 3 only one support polygamy (FLDS) and that is the church in question. Yes the titles are a bit confusing, but it is just like lumping everyone that believes in Islam into one basket and blaming the whole for things that small groups do.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: yllus


What the hell are you talking about?

Your first paragraph made no sense whatsoever. Yes, in some parts of the world 14-year-old girls and younger are married off to much older men. Let me let you in on a little secret: That doesn't happen because that's the ideal marriage situation for that child. It happens because the parents need the dowry to stay afloat themselves, or because the extra mouth to feed is sinking them. Have you ever heard of a wealthy Middle Eastern family's daughter being married off at 12? It doesn't happen because those families don't have the fiscal incentive to do it. They rather properly raise, educate and let their daughter find a mate that makes her happy.

Your second paragraph made no sense whatsoever. You're equating what girls watch on television - which could, you know, be turned off by a parent if it's so objectionable - to being forced into an incestual relationship at puberty. You're not making a case for relative morality. You're making a case for absolute stupidity.

What are the charges? Gee, let's see what the second paragraph of the article states: "Since last week, they have interviewed members of the polygamist sect looking for evidence that that girls younger than 16 were forced into marriages with older men." I wonder what the charges the authorities are looking at filing? I'm guessing your ignorance you've displayed of foreign culture is an offshoot of your reading disability?

You know, normally I'd be a little nicer but the sleazy moral relativism of this post is something I find a little sickening. You would think people with the ability to read, write and use a computer would know better.

Maybe one day, more Americans will go overseas and see how the rest of the world lives. Obviously, you are very close-mindedness. In India, arranged marriages of young women to older men by the parent is a common thing. There have been studies that show that arrange marriages last longer and the couples are more happy. Scientist have speculated that this could be due to parents, who are older, are able to make better choices than young people.

Wow... I cannot believe how people can be so close minded. "You would think people with the ability to read, write and use a computer would know better" Actually, I know several people who had arrange marriages -- OOooh Nooess!!! Don't worry. The wife actually liked that she had an arrange marriage compared to the "Sex in the city" life that she sees on American TV. FYI, I'm not born in the States.

With respect to the raid of hundreds of people. Where are the charges? I think there were only one.. When this witch hunt ends, there will be a lot of people traumatized by the US government and their swat teams.. A lot of innocent people.

May I suggests you visit other cultures and learn from them. Having the "My cluture is always right" attitudes make people from other cultures and countries hate the USA.

the folowing URL shows how other people chose to live their lives, clicking on it may blow yllus mind. Yes, there are other cultures and ways of thinking.. ..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...0/AR2006082000113.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...Oa6wYA&feature=related

Arranged marriages are not the problem, it's when you arrange a marriage between a 12 year old a 50 year old that you violate US state laws. I'm sorry, but this issue has nothing to do with 'accepting other cultures' it has to do with upholding US state laws that designed to protect children.

Go ahead and have arranged marriages, but wait until the girl is 18. It isn't that complicated.

 

[piasabird]

The author (ME) is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Joseph Smith was asked once what we believe in and he stated 16 articles of Faith. One of them basically states that we believe in being subject to the laws of the State or sovreign government where we may be living. This includes marriage laws. I dont know why polygamy was started in the early years of the Mormon Church. However, one thing I do know is sometimes in the past, as referenced in the Bible, people have asked God for things that were bad for them and God granted their requests. Perhaps for nothing else but to teach them a lesson. One thing I do know is sometimes it is quite common when men are given power, they tend to abuse that power almost as soon as they receive it. In the time of Abraham he took a second wife or a concubine when his first wife had not born him a child. However, it was at the request of the first wife, and with her permission. This is one key important factor that is left out, that the wife had to give her permission. God gave Adam Eve not as a slave or a servant but as a Help-Meet, as one who was equal in marriage to help and counsel with her husband and share in running the household. Sometimes men forget these simple principles, being the brutes that men tend to be.


This is the 12th of 13 articles of Faith. The Articles of Faith are basic principles taught in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Joseph Smith Jr was asked by a reporter one day what we believed in and he wrote the man a letter in which he included the 13 articles of Faith. These are typically taught to all children in Sunday School for Children age 3-12 and also to adults. They are often referenced and repeated by members of the Church.

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

http://scriptures.lds.org/a_of_f/1

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: yllus


What the hell are you talking about?

Your first paragraph made no sense whatsoever. Yes, in some parts of the world 14-year-old girls and younger are married off to much older men. Let me let you in on a little secret: That doesn't happen because that's the ideal marriage situation for that child. It happens because the parents need the dowry to stay afloat themselves, or because the extra mouth to feed is sinking them. Have you ever heard of a wealthy Middle Eastern family's daughter being married off at 12? It doesn't happen because those families don't have the fiscal incentive to do it. They rather properly raise, educate and let their daughter find a mate that makes her happy.

Your second paragraph made no sense whatsoever. You're equating what girls watch on television - which could, you know, be turned off by a parent if it's so objectionable - to being forced into an incestual relationship at puberty. You're not making a case for relative morality. You're making a case for absolute stupidity.

What are the charges? Gee, let's see what the second paragraph of the article states: "Since last week, they have interviewed members of the polygamist sect looking for evidence that that girls younger than 16 were forced into marriages with older men." I wonder what the charges the authorities are looking at filing? I'm guessing your ignorance you've displayed of foreign culture is an offshoot of your reading disability?

You know, normally I'd be a little nicer but the sleazy moral relativism of this post is something I find a little sickening. You would think people with the ability to read, write and use a computer would know better.

Maybe one day, more Americans will go overseas and see how the rest of the world lives. Obviously, you are very close-mindedness. In India, arranged marriages of young women to older men by the parent is a common thing. There have been studies that show that arrange marriages last longer and the couples are more happy. Scientist have speculated that this could be due to parents, who are older, are able to make better choices than young people.

Wow... I cannot believe how people can be so close minded. "You would think people with the ability to read, write and use a computer would know better" Actually, I know several people who had arrange marriages -- OOooh Nooess!!! Don't worry. The wife actually liked that she had an arrange marriage compared to the "Sex in the city" life that she sees on American TV. FYI, I'm not born in the States.

With respect to the raid of hundreds of people. Where are the charges? I think there were only one.. When this witch hunt ends, there will be a lot of people traumatized by the US government and their swat teams.. A lot of innocent people.

May I suggests you visit other cultures and learn from them. Having the "My cluture is always right" attitudes make people from other cultures and countries hate the USA.

the folowing URL shows how other people chose to live their lives, clicking on it may blow yllus mind. Yes, there are other cultures and ways of thinking.. ..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...0/AR2006082000113.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...Oa6wYA&feature=related

Arranged marriages are not the problem, it's when you arrange a marriage between a 12 year old a 50 year old that you violate US state laws. I'm sorry, but this issue has nothing to do with 'accepting other cultures' it has to do with upholding US state laws that designed to protect children.

Go ahead and have arranged marriages, but wait until the girl is 18. It isn't that complicated.

One of the problems with arranged marriages in many cultures, even when the bride is 18, is that girls are betrothed at MUCH younger ages - long before they have even an inkling of what love is. So you can have 11 year olds promised in marriage, with the parents paid a nice binder fee. Maybe the girl isn't wedded until she's 18, but I consider this sort of practice highly abusive just the same.

 

[Arkaign]

I find it astonishing that anyone can be a Mormon, and look at the historical record. Joseph Smith was a charlatan whose whole religion is based upon the premise that Israelites had migrated to North America, and were the 'Indians' that were found here. Genetic testing has irrefutably proven that Native Americans are closest by far to the Siberian/North Asian archetype, and have no link to Middle Eastern racial types, aside from also being human.

Brigham Young's crimes were also horrifying beyond belief.

Religion founded on fear, hate, and ignorance .. what a recipe.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
I find it astonishing that anyone can be a Mormon, and look at the historical record. Joseph Smith was a charlatan whose whole religion is based upon the premise that Israelites had migrated to North America, and were the 'Indians' that were found here. Genetic testing has irrefutably proven that Native Americans are closest by far to the Siberian/North Asian archetype, and have no link to Middle Eastern racial types, aside from also being human.

Brigham Young's crimes were also horrifying beyond belief.

Religion founded on fear, hate, and ignorance .. what a recipe.

1. Joseph was never convicted of anything in his life. It isn't as if those against him weren't trying to find something they could latch onto.

2. It is no secrete that we believe Indians principle ancestors where Isrealites. However, if you read the book of mormon you will find that there was more then one group of people that had come to america. The book of mormon isn't a historical document, it is a book written for our day with an emphasis on things of the spirit.

3. Enlighten me on "Brigham Young's crimes". The most controversial thing that he may have been involved in was the mountain meadow massicare and even then there is fairly good evidence that he wasn't involved in it.

There are some pretty controversial things that Brigham Young has said "IE the blood atonement" But the official position of the church has never condoned murder in any way.

But believe what you may, the fact remains that the LDS church today is a good standing religion. You might as well be arguing about the Catholics Spanish inquisition or the fact that the church of England was founded on the premise of king Henry wanting a divorce, for many it is the standing of those churches now that define them, not what they once where. So why is it that mormon's have to be measured by a different standard?

BTW, don't get me wrong, Warren Jeffs is a phsyco and deserves to be locked up for a long time. but thats the FLDS church. Once again, COMPLETELY different religion.

[edit]BTW, might I invite you the read the book of mormon and maybe some articles on mormon.org . You say the religion was founded on fear, hate, and ignorance, I don't agree and believe it would be beneficial for you to read the official church doctrines and maybe even listen to a few general conference talks before spreading misconceptions.[/edit]

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
I find it astonishing that anyone can be a Mormon, and look at the historical record. Joseph Smith was a charlatan whose whole religion is based upon the premise that Israelites had migrated to North America, and were the 'Indians' that were found here. Genetic testing has irrefutably proven that Native Americans are closest by far to the Siberian/North Asian archetype, and have no link to Middle Eastern racial types, aside from also being human.

Brigham Young's crimes were also horrifying beyond belief.

Religion founded on fear, hate, and ignorance .. what a recipe.

I don't see how this kind of turbulent history makes Mormonism different from any other religious movement.

On topic though, one should not confuse the mainstream LDS church with Jeff's FLDS sect.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: eleison



Maybe one day, more Americans will go overseas and see how the rest of the world lives. Obviously, you are very close-mindedness. In India, arranged marriages of young women to older men by the parent is a common thing. There have been studies that show that arrange marriages last longer and the couples are more happy. Scientist have speculated that this could be due to parents, who are older, are able to make better choices than young people.

Wow... I cannot believe how people can be so close minded. "You would think people with the ability to read, write and use a computer would know better" Actually, I know several people who had arrange marriages -- OOooh Nooess!!! Don't worry. The wife actually liked that she had an arrange marriage compared to the "Sex in the city" life that she sees on American TV. FYI, I'm not born in the States.

With respect to the raid of hundreds of people. Where are the charges? I think there were only one.. When this witch hunt ends, there will be a lot of people traumatized by the US government and their swat teams.. A lot of innocent people.

May I suggests you visit other cultures and learn from them. Having the "My cluture is always right" attitudes make people from other cultures and countries hate the USA.

the folowing URL shows how other people chose to live their lives, clicking on it may blow yllus mind. Yes, there are other cultures and ways of thinking.. ..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...0/AR2006082000113.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...Oa6wYA&feature=related

You have some serious problem with your logic. So what if certain country allows certain things. Some part of the world stone women to death for extra-marital affair, should we allow that too in the US? We live in the US and there are laws in the US we have to follow.

There is law in Texas and the US against having sex with underage children. Those fvckers in Texas violated the law and that makes them sex offender in the US. I hope they get convicted for a long sentence and be some big black dude's b!tch for years to come.

 

[eleison]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: eleison



Maybe one day, more Americans will go overseas and see how the rest of the world lives. Obviously, you are very close-mindedness. In India, arranged marriages of young women to older men by the parent is a common thing. There have been studies that show that arrange marriages last longer and the couples are more happy. Scientist have speculated that this could be due to parents, who are older, are able to make better choices than young people.

Wow... I cannot believe how people can be so close minded. "You would think people with the ability to read, write and use a computer would know better" Actually, I know several people who had arrange marriages -- OOooh Nooess!!! Don't worry. The wife actually liked that she had an arrange marriage compared to the "Sex in the city" life that she sees on American TV. FYI, I'm not born in the States.

With respect to the raid of hundreds of people. Where are the charges? I think there were only one.. When this witch hunt ends, there will be a lot of people traumatized by the US government and their swat teams.. A lot of innocent people.

May I suggests you visit other cultures and learn from them. Having the "My cluture is always right" attitudes make people from other cultures and countries hate the USA.

the folowing URL shows how other people chose to live their lives, clicking on it may blow yllus mind. Yes, there are other cultures and ways of thinking.. ..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...0/AR2006082000113.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...Oa6wYA&feature=related

You have some serious problem with your logic. So what if certain country allows certain things. Some part of the world stone women to death for extra-marital affair, should we allow that too in the US? We live in the US and there are laws in the US we have to follow.

There is law in Texas and the US against having sex with underage children. Those fvckers in Texas violated the law and that makes them sex offender in the US. I hope they get convicted for a long sentence and be some big black dude's b!tch for years to come.

There are many things that are against the laws in the US that may not necessary be "right". As there are many laws in other countries that may or may not be "right". Stoning women is not right, as you pointed out. Just because its a law in certain parts of the ME doesn't mean people in the ME should follow it like trained monkeys.

In the US, smoking weed or when young people take pictures of themselves having sex should not be cases for 10 year prison sentences (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19188343/) -- not to mention as you eloquently stated being "big black dude's b!tch for years to come." In addition, there are many sodomy laws that are on the books as we currently speak which most normal Americans have violated... but yet, should we put everyone in prison?

Independent thinking folks.. It not just about agreeing with "the law".. or following the mantra: "in the US its done this way so we always have to do it this way..." remember the Jim crow laws? Or how the US gleefully committed genocide on the native Americans because they were "heathens"? Independent thinking is a good thing (tm).

Please, its seems now a days people just take what the US media gives them face value. Since this raid is so "righteous".. where are the charges? Out of hundreds of families being corralled by swat teams and police officiers with shotguns.. How many charges are there? Obviously, there must myriads of them since this groups was so egregious. But lo and behold, there are very few minor charges.

Witch hunt!!!! They were popular in the US for a while backed by "laws of the land" until someone decided to think differently..


http://www.washingtonpost.com/...0/AR2006082000113.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...Oa6wYA&feature=related

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: eleison



Maybe one day, more Americans will go overseas and see how the rest of the world lives. Obviously, you are very close-mindedness. In India, arranged marriages of young women to older men by the parent is a common thing. There have been studies that show that arrange marriages last longer and the couples are more happy. Scientist have speculated that this could be due to parents, who are older, are able to make better choices than young people.

Wow... I cannot believe how people can be so close minded. "You would think people with the ability to read, write and use a computer would know better" Actually, I know several people who had arrange marriages -- OOooh Nooess!!! Don't worry. The wife actually liked that she had an arrange marriage compared to the "Sex in the city" life that she sees on American TV. FYI, I'm not born in the States.

With respect to the raid of hundreds of people. Where are the charges? I think there were only one.. When this witch hunt ends, there will be a lot of people traumatized by the US government and their swat teams.. A lot of innocent people.


May I suggests you visit other cultures and learn from them. Having the "My cluture is always right" attitudes make people from other cultures and countries hate the USA.

the folowing URL shows how other people chose to live their lives, clicking on it may blow yllus mind. Yes, there are other cultures and ways of thinking.. ..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...0/AR2006082000113.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...Oa6wYA&feature=related

You have some serious problem with your logic. So what if certain country allows certain things. Some part of the world stone women to death for extra-marital affair, should we allow that too in the US? We live in the US and there are laws in the US we have to follow.

There is law in Texas and the US against having sex with underage children. Those fvckers in Texas violated the law and that makes them sex offender in the US. I hope they get convicted for a long sentence and be some big black dude's b!tch for years to come.

There are many things that are against the laws in the US that may not necessary be "right". As there are many laws in other countries that may or may not be "right". Stoning women is not right, as you pointed out. Just because its a law in certain parts of the ME doesn't mean people in the ME should follow it like trained monkeys.

In the US, smoking weed or when young people take pictures of themselves having sex should not be cases for 10 year prison sentences (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19188343/) -- not to mention as you eloquently stated being "big black dude's b!tch for years to come." In addition, there are many sodomy laws that are on the books as we currently speak which most normal Americans have violated... but yet, should we put everyone in prison?

Independent thinking folks.. It not just about agreeing with "the law".. or following the mantra: "in the US its done this way so we always have to do it this way..." remember the Jim crow laws? Or how the US gleefully committed genocide on the native Americans because they were "heathens"? Independent thinking is a good thing (tm).

Please, its seems now a days people just take what the US media gives them face value. Since this raid is so "righteous".. where are the charges? Out of hundreds of families being corralled by swat teams and police officiers with shotguns.. How many charges are there? Obviously, there must myriads of them since this groups was so egregious. But lo and behold, there are very few minor charges.

Witch hunt!!!! They were popular in the US for a while backed by "laws of the land" until someone decided to think differently..


http://www.washingtonpost.com/...0/AR2006082000113.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...Oa6wYA&feature=related

I don't know anyone who has served 10 years for smoking pot. Hell I dont know anyone that served more than their initial booking.

You dont go to jail for smoking pot. You go to jail for having more than enough to be suspected of distribution.

Most sodomy laws have been repealled or are not enforced. I still dont get your logic that brainwashing girls from birth into believing marrying 50 year old men at age 12-14 is right. Its sickening, and those fvckers need physical castration, not that chemical sh!t.

And again it shows you know sh!t about law enforcement. I can take months for a sexual abuse case to get to the point that can charge someone. When we are talking literally dozens to possibly many times that, it takes time to process and interview people.

Bottom line is sex with people 17 and under is illegal in the state of Texas, unless you are 18 and then 17 is okay, any lower is not.

Marrying under the age of 16 is illegal.

A DA has to build a case before they bring charges, a case is not made in a week.
When all is said and done, most adults in that compound will be charged with multiple felonies at the state and local levels.

One must assume you are apart of the FLDS cult, because any rational person can see how a 50 year old marrying and fucking a 12-14 is completely wrong. Just because its allowed in some third world sh!thole country, doesn't make it right.

 

[ultimatebob]

In order words, the feds probably would have looked the other way if their "wives" were of legal age, but Noooo... These bastards needed to cross the line and start molesting children. :|

I'm just glad that they're in Texas, so the chances of them getting off with a light punishment are low!

 

[Phokus]

edit: NM

 

[Modelworks]

They just found a bed in the church that was used specifically for sex after services.
And people think thats normal or moral ?

Also a 16 year old with 4 children.

These people deserve anything the law can throw at them.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: eleison
[Please, its seems now a days people just take what the US media gives them face value. Since this raid is so "righteous".. where are the charges? Out of hundreds of families being corralled by swat teams and police officiers with shotguns.. How many charges are there? Obviously, there must myriads of them since this groups was so egregious. But lo and behold, there are very few minor charges.

Witch hunt!!!! They were popular in the US for a while backed by "laws of the land" until someone decided to think differently..

Charges ?
Its only been a few days, they like to take the time to investigate before pressing charges.

So far they have found a bed in the temple used for sex with underage girls after the ceremony.

A 16 year old with 4 children ?

They found workers outside the compound that were pressured, "your mother, sister, brother, lives here, pay up", mafia style, to give sometimes their entire paycheck to the compound. Right now its near 2 million a month in income to these bastards.

There is no way this is a legit religion, unless your a pedophile.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: eleison


There are many things that are against the laws in the US that may not necessary be "right". As there are many laws in other countries that may or may not be "right". Stoning women is not right, as you pointed out. Just because its a law in certain parts of the ME doesn't mean people in the ME should follow it like trained monkeys.

In the US, smoking weed or when young people take pictures of themselves having sex should not be cases for 10 year prison sentences (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19188343/) -- not to mention as you eloquently stated being "big black dude's b!tch for years to come." In addition, there are many sodomy laws that are on the books as we currently speak which most normal Americans have violated... but yet, should we put everyone in prison?

Independent thinking folks.. It not just about agreeing with "the law".. or following the mantra: "in the US its done this way so we always have to do it this way..." remember the Jim crow laws? Or how the US gleefully committed genocide on the native Americans because they were "heathens"? Independent thinking is a good thing (tm).

Please, its seems now a days people just take what the US media gives them face value. Since this raid is so "righteous".. where are the charges? Out of hundreds of families being corralled by swat teams and police officiers with shotguns.. How many charges are there? Obviously, there must myriads of them since this groups was so egregious. But lo and behold, there are very few minor charges.

Witch hunt!!!! They were popular in the US for a while backed by "laws of the land" until someone decided to think differently..


http://www.washingtonpost.com/...0/AR2006082000113.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...Oa6wYA&feature=related

Witch hunt my @ss. The fact that there were minors in the compound with babies, and minors pregnant with babies is enough to convict those responsible for the compound sex offenders. It's sickening to see some people here actually condone 12, 13, 14 year old girls being forced into sex and marriage, being abused and brainwashed, and their entire life taken away. You people really need to take a good look at yourself and think about what kind of human being you are.

 

[ProfJohn]

blah

 

[BeauJangles]

Out of hundreds of families being corralled by swat teams and police officiers with shotguns..

Do you have any idea why the Texas police might consider showing up with SWAT teams or are you really, truly, ignorant?

Ruby Ridge - US Marshals attempted to apprehend Weaver after he refused to show up in court. Confrontation ensued - Weaver and both his sons were shot while 1 US Marshal lost his life.

Waco / Branch Dividian - ATF officers attempted to arrest Branch Dividian members for possessing illegal weapons. Four ATF officers died in the initial confrontation, as well as six civilians. The siege that began lasted for 51 days and ultimately resulted in 76 civilian deaths.

Those are the two big recent events in LE history and they do not want to repeat them. Their initial use of force was probably in an effort to avoid another standoff or confrontation where people's lives could be put at risk.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Out of hundreds of families being corralled by swat teams and police officiers with shotguns..

Do you have any idea why the Texas police might consider showing up with SWAT teams or are you really, truly, ignorant?

Ruby Ridge - US Marshals attempted to apprehend Weaver after he refused to show up in court. Confrontation ensued - Weaver and both his sons were shot while 1 US Marshal lost his life.

Waco / Branch Dividian - ATF officers attempted to arrest Branch Dividian members for possessing illegal weapons. Four ATF officers died in the initial confrontation, as well as six civilians. The siege that began lasted for 51 days and ultimately resulted in 76 civilian deaths.

Those are the two big recent events in LE history and they do not want to repeat them. "Their initial use of force was probably in an effort to avoid another standoff or confrontation where people's lives could be put at risk.

The Waco situation was a massive clusterfuck. They had taps and info enough to know that Koresh regularly went to town, they could have easily picked him up, detained him, and peacefully obtained cooperation from that standing. Without Koresh as an angry firebrand inside the compound, the morale wouldn't have been there to put up such resistance.

The really sad/stupid part, is that the Branch Davidians owned no illegal weapons.

All these guns, gun parts, powders, inert grenades, and other equipment were lawfully purchased and may be legally owned. None per se established probable cause that Koresh had violated or was about to violate federal law. As has been noted, the seemingly large amounts are not illegal either according to the Firearms Owners' Protection Act of 1986 and the Supreme Court decision United States vs. Anders, nor are they unusual for someone dealing in weapons or holding them as an investment."

http://www.firearmsandliberty....waco.massacre.html#1.2

^^^ Huge site that has more detail on that event than you could ever want to know.

 

[Modelworks]

They just did an interview with the police and when asked if they had informants inside the compound, they replied"We had someone we were talking with", and they wouldn't expand on that.

I think they probably had one or two people on the inside long before this raid on the compound. Thats more typical to something like the government would do.
Find an agent that fits the profile for the group and then work him into it over time to really find out whats going on.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
They just did an interview with the police and when asked if they had informants inside the compound, they replied"We had someone we were talking with", and they wouldn't expand on that.

I think they probably had one or two people on the inside long before this raid on the compound. Thats more typical to something like the government would do.
Find an agent that fits the profile for the group and then work him into it over time to really find out whats going on.

That's a lot more sensible than what went down in Waco. I think they've learned from some of their mistakes.

Grandstanding and going in guns blazing is a terrible way of getting things done the right way. As far as I can tell, this FLDS Raid is a top-tier operation so far. Kudos to the Feds for doing it right. Reno, the ATF, and the rest sure showed us the exact WRONG way to do it in '93.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Out of hundreds of families being corralled by swat teams and police officiers with shotguns..

Do you have any idea why the Texas police might consider showing up with SWAT teams or are you really, truly, ignorant?

Ruby Ridge - US Marshals attempted to apprehend Weaver after he refused to show up in court. Confrontation ensued - Weaver and both his sons were shot while 1 US Marshal lost his life.

Waco / Branch Dividian - ATF officers attempted to arrest Branch Dividian members for possessing illegal weapons. Four ATF officers died in the initial confrontation, as well as six civilians. The siege that began lasted for 51 days and ultimately resulted in 76 civilian deaths.

Those are the two big recent events in LE history and they do not want to repeat them. "Their initial use of force was probably in an effort to avoid another standoff or confrontation where people's lives could be put at risk.

The Waco situation was a massive clusterfuck. They had taps and info enough to know that Koresh regularly went to town, they could have easily picked him up, detained him, and peacefully obtained cooperation from that standing. Without Koresh as an angry firebrand inside the compound, the morale wouldn't have been there to put up such resistance.

The really sad/stupid part, is that the Branch Davidians owned no illegal weapons.

All these guns, gun parts, powders, inert grenades, and other equipment were lawfully purchased and may be legally owned. None per se established probable cause that Koresh had violated or was about to violate federal law. As has been noted, the seemingly large amounts are not illegal either according to the Firearms Owners' Protection Act of 1986 and the Supreme Court decision United States vs. Anders, nor are they unusual for someone dealing in weapons or holding them as an investment."

http://www.firearmsandliberty....waco.massacre.html#1.2

^^^ Huge site that has more detail on that event than you could ever want to know.

I'm not trying to defend what the ATF did at Waco, I'm just trying to point out that the reason for the heavy force was probably directly related to the outcome at Waco and the desire to not repeat the same mistakes again.

Again, I agree that the situation was fucked up, but it still happened and influences the judgment of LE today.

 

[Arkaign]

^^^ Agreed, and I understand that you're speaking of the fact that the Waco debacle (and others), have led to a re-evaluation and new directives to be used in situations like these.

With Waco, it was plainly obvious that they wanted to make a big macho tough-guy show, and had no intentions of doing it quietly and safely.

With this FLDS, a small team didn't try to kick in doors/windows, while dressed in black storm-trooper gear, and brandishing full-auto weapons at them. They merely showed up in force, and obtained peaceful cooperation.

As a matter of fact, I think the absolute last thing you'd ever want to do, is to stage a small raid on a compound full of heavily armed, paranoid/delusional religious zealots. It's probably just a bad idea.

 

[waggy]

I have no problem with Polygamy. IF they are all consenting adults.

Forcing children to merry 50 yr old men is just sick and twisted. Such a sad story

 

[piasabird]

So if they can not identify or find the person that called in and made the complaint would the courts rule that the warrant is invalid and throw out all evidence found? I could see this happening. I could also see some serious charges if the church-based or Spiritual marriage was illegal according to the state. Accordingly all the men should have to go to jail for every extra wife that they have for about 10 years each or however long the normal length of a polygamy conviction would call for. Then you have hundreds of people on welfare. Seems like there should be some other remedy to this situation. They could allow all the women to run the compound and just supply them with food and some social workers. Make it like an orphanage or something.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: piasabird
So if they can not identify or find the person that called in and made the complaint would the courts rule that the warrant is invalid and throw out all evidence found?

Not a snowball's chance in Hell.