Cops beat up and make fun of a guy.

[Tweak155]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: Proprioceptive
I like the Army's steps... shout, show, shove, SHOOT. No compliance between those steps means suckage for whomever you're dealing with.

Yep. Too many people think they have a choice in the matter.

Originally posted by: Tweak155

Originally posted by: Proprioceptive

Originally posted by: Turin39789
But how do you get from that to writing it up as a closed fist assault on the officers?

Nobody can say whether or not the closed fist assault didn't or did happen because there was plenty of scuffling OFF camera. Simple. We cannot say the officer's are lying because much of the resistance happened OFF CAMERA.

Cops stated it was when they pulled the guy over. Video proved it false. Cops were lying - no question.

Alright, if they were, so be it. Has no bearing on whether or not the use of force was justified.

Yeah I'm not saying they were or weren't or that it didn't happen at all - It just didn't happen when the cops claimed it did so they were therefor lying. And my previous posts have indicated I don't think one way or another yet as to whether or not the cops were justified.

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Yep Cops should be able to tell anybody anything and lie about it no matter how wrong they are. Let alone make fun of them, file a false report, etc... :roll:

Of course they shouldn't. But you sure as fuck don't make that argument on the side of the road.

 

[Proprioceptive]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Proprioceptive
Sorry guys, but these cops were well within their rights to do EXACTLY what they did. EVERY time this guy is told to do something, he refuses... for almost 5 minutes, the cops just deal with this guy and finally just have him sit down. When the cop comes back and tells him to put his hands behind his back, this guy STANDS UP. That is stupid... so stupid it's unbelievable. I have been trained in situations like this, albeit in the military, but if someone does not comply with your orders, does something completely different, and then struggles with me when I try to stop him, he's getting all the force I can muster. This piece of trash deserved every hit he got. You do not resist an officer's orders. If this guy had complied from the beginning, none of this would be an issue at all.

What are you watching? He did not stand up but was pulled up. At 13:57 he was told to put his hands behind his back. You can see his right hand starts to go back and the cop grabs him and pulls him up and slams hiom on the car.

Maybe if you watched it with a open mind and not lets see what I can find to defend ther cops. Heck they even lied and said he hit them with a closed fist. Where is that? Even the DA dropped charges after watching as it did not happen.

Try it sometime.

I did and the DA, police cheif, etc... agree with what I saw as well.

Your turn.

You clearly did not watch the same video I did. This guy started to stand ON HIS OWN. His hand went back to support himself standing up. the DA and chief are politicians trying to keep their jobs because idiots like you don't know any better. You have clearly never been involved with a stituation like this.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: Proprioceptive
I like the Army's steps... shout, show, shove, SHOOT. No compliance between those steps means suckage for whomever you're dealing with.

Yep. Too many people think they have a choice in the matter.

Originally posted by: Tweak155

Originally posted by: Proprioceptive

Originally posted by: Turin39789
But how do you get from that to writing it up as a closed fist assault on the officers?

Nobody can say whether or not the closed fist assault didn't or did happen because there was plenty of scuffling OFF camera. Simple. We cannot say the officer's are lying because much of the resistance happened OFF CAMERA.

Cops stated it was when they pulled the guy over. Video proved it false. Cops were lying - no question.

Alright, if they were, so be it. Has no bearing on whether or not the use of force was justified.

I didn't see the article address whether the force was justified. Obviously the guy was being a dick and giving them a hard time, he obviously doesn't understand how traffic stops work here.

I imagine I'm going to screw up if I get pulled over in Mexico and don't know that I'm supposed to tell the officer that it isn't necessary and slip him a few pesos.


But assaulting an officer is a damn serious charge. Got to assume that has all kinds of ramifications in your life, and will likely fuck up your employment for life. Its supposed to be a serious charge because its a serious offence.

Writing this up like they did was fucked up.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Proprioceptive
Sorry guys, but these cops were well within their rights to do EXACTLY what they did. EVERY time this guy is told to do something, he refuses... for almost 5 minutes, the cops just deal with this guy and finally just have him sit down. When the cop comes back and tells him to put his hands behind his back, this guy STANDS UP. That is stupid... so stupid it's unbelievable. I have been trained in situations like this, albeit in the military, but if someone does not comply with your orders, does something completely different, and then struggles with me when I try to stop him, he's getting all the force I can muster. This piece of trash deserved every hit he got. You do not resist an officer's orders. If this guy had complied from the beginning, none of this would be an issue at all.

What are you watching? He did not stand up but was pulled up. At 13:57 he was told to put his hands behind his back. You can see his right hand starts to go back and the cop grabs him and pulls him up and slams hiom on the car.

Maybe if you watched it with a open mind and not lets see what I can find to defend ther cops. Heck they even lied and said he hit them with a closed fist. Where is that? Even the DA dropped charges after watching as it did not happen.

Try it sometime.

I did and the DA, police cheif, etc... agree with what I saw as well.

Your turn.

How would you in this situation control this guy?

They should have never argued with him. The cops antagonized him several times and would try and hold him and let go. When he was removed from the car he should have been cuffed. No talking or threatening about impounding his car and such. They crossed the line when he was sitting on the ground and told him to put his hands behind his back and as his right hand started to go behind his back he was picked up and slammed on the car. Was the guy a idiot as well yes. But he is not trained to do this. This is not his job that has to go through hundreds of hours of training. He also never assulated the cops.

If the cops did as they were trained this would not have happened and their career would not be over now and looking at jail time. Let alone them lying on report.

 

[rivan]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Proprioceptive
Sorry guys, but these cops were well within their rights to do EXACTLY what they did. EVERY time this guy is told to do something, he refuses... for almost 5 minutes, the cops just deal with this guy and finally just have him sit down. When the cop comes back and tells him to put his hands behind his back, this guy STANDS UP. That is stupid... so stupid it's unbelievable. I have been trained in situations like this, albeit in the military, but if someone does not comply with your orders, does something completely different, and then struggles with me when I try to stop him, he's getting all the force I can muster. This piece of trash deserved every hit he got. You do not resist an officer's orders. If this guy had complied from the beginning, none of this would be an issue at all.

What are you watching? He did not stand up but was pulled up. At 13:57 he was told to put his hands behind his back. You can see his right hand starts to go back and the cop grabs him and pulls him up and slams hiom on the car.

Maybe if you watched it with a open mind and not lets see what I can find to defend ther cops. Heck they even lied and said he hit them with a closed fist. Where is that? Even the DA dropped charges after watching as it did not happen.

Try it sometime.

I did and the DA, police cheif, etc... agree with what I saw as well.

Your turn.

How would you in this situation control this guy?

Please? Pretty please? Ok, I'll buy you an ice cream if you get out of the car!

Sprinkles and a cherry on top?

 

[Proprioceptive]

Originally posted by: 40Hands

Originally posted by: Proprioceptive
I like the Army's steps... shout, show, shove, SHOOT. No compliance between those steps means suckage for whomever you're dealing with.

Congrats! Go back to the army, you tool. You're not making any sense here anyways.

Please, I would love to hear why I am a tool. AND how I am not making any sense.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Proprioceptive
Sorry guys, but these cops were well within their rights to do EXACTLY what they did. EVERY time this guy is told to do something, he refuses... for almost 5 minutes, the cops just deal with this guy and finally just have him sit down. When the cop comes back and tells him to put his hands behind his back, this guy STANDS UP. That is stupid... so stupid it's unbelievable. I have been trained in situations like this, albeit in the military, but if someone does not comply with your orders, does something completely different, and then struggles with me when I try to stop him, he's getting all the force I can muster. This piece of trash deserved every hit he got. You do not resist an officer's orders. If this guy had complied from the beginning, none of this would be an issue at all.

What are you watching? He did not stand up but was pulled up. At 13:57 he was told to put his hands behind his back. You can see his right hand starts to go back and the cop grabs him and pulls him up and slams hiom on the car.

Maybe if you watched it with a open mind and not lets see what I can find to defend ther cops. Heck they even lied and said he hit them with a closed fist. Where is that? Even the DA dropped charges after watching as it did not happen.

Try it sometime.

I did and the DA, police cheif, etc... agree with what I saw as well.

Your turn.

How would you in this situation control this guy?

They should have never argued with him. The cops antagonized him several times and would try and hold him and let go. When he was removed from the car he should have been cuffed. No talking or threatening about impounding his car and such. They crossed the line when he was sitting on the ground and told him to put his hands behind his back and as his right hand started to go behind his back he was picked up and slammed on the car. Was the guy a idiot as well yes. But he is not trained to do this. This is not his job that has to go through hundreds of hours of training. He also never assulated the cops.

If the cops did as they were trained this would not have happened and their career would not be over now and looking at jail time. Let alone them lying on report.

Did you watch the full video? When and where did he allow them to handcuff him?
These cops arent going to jail. They will serve some desk duty until internal affairs clears them. This is not brutaility. The guy resisted from the getgo.

That said you still dont explain how you would subdue this guy who resisted from the beginning and they had to drag him out of the car.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
They should have never argued with him. The cops antagonized him several times and would try and hold him and let go. When he was removed from the car he should have been cuffed. No talking or threatening about impounding his car and such. They crossed the line when he was sitting on the ground and told him to put his hands behind his back and as his right hand started to go behind his back he was picked up and slammed on the car. Was the guy a idiot as well yes. But he is not trained to do this. This is not his job that has to go through hundreds of hours of training. He also never assulated the cops.

If the cops did as they were trained this would not have happened and their career would not be over now and looking at jail time. Let alone them lying on report.

...what? Are you truly this dense?

They are on paid administrative leave. What jail time are they facing right now? Enlighten me!

Originally posted by: Turin39789
I didn't see the article address whether the force was justified. Obviously the guy was being a dick and giving them a hard time, he obviously doesn't understand how traffic stops work here.

I imagine I'm going to screw up if I get pulled over in Mexico and don't know that I'm supposed to tell the officer that it isn't necessary and slip him a few pesos.


But assaulting an officer is a damn serious charge. Got to assume that has all kinds of ramifications in your life, and will likely fuck up your employment for life. Its supposed to be a serious charge because its a serious offence.

Writing this up like they did was fucked up.

Read the thread's title..

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Yep Cops should be able to tell anybody anything and lie about it no matter how wrong they are. Let alone make fun of them, file a false report, etc... :roll:

This entire stop was not on camera. Innocent until proven guilty, no? Or do you exempt cops from their Constitutional rights?

 

[Proprioceptive]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Proprioceptive
Sorry guys, but these cops were well within their rights to do EXACTLY what they did. EVERY time this guy is told to do something, he refuses... for almost 5 minutes, the cops just deal with this guy and finally just have him sit down. When the cop comes back and tells him to put his hands behind his back, this guy STANDS UP. That is stupid... so stupid it's unbelievable. I have been trained in situations like this, albeit in the military, but if someone does not comply with your orders, does something completely different, and then struggles with me when I try to stop him, he's getting all the force I can muster. This piece of trash deserved every hit he got. You do not resist an officer's orders. If this guy had complied from the beginning, none of this would be an issue at all.

What are you watching? He did not stand up but was pulled up. At 13:57 he was told to put his hands behind his back. You can see his right hand starts to go back and the cop grabs him and pulls him up and slams hiom on the car.

Maybe if you watched it with a open mind and not lets see what I can find to defend ther cops. Heck they even lied and said he hit them with a closed fist. Where is that? Even the DA dropped charges after watching as it did not happen.

Try it sometime.

I did and the DA, police cheif, etc... agree with what I saw as well.

Your turn.

How would you in this situation control this guy?

They should have never argued with him. The cops antagonized him several times and would try and hold him and let go. When he was removed from the car he should have been cuffed. No talking or threatening about impounding his car and such. They crossed the line when he was sitting on the ground and told him to put his hands behind his back and as his right hand started to go behind his back he was picked up and slammed on the car. Was the guy a idiot as well yes. But he is not trained to do this. This is not his job that has to go through hundreds of hours of training. He also never assulated the cops.

If the cops did as they were trained this would not have happened and their career would not be over now and looking at jail time. Let alone them lying on report.

Again, you didn't watch the video. He stood up on his own, and the copy had his hand on the guys back in case he DID try to stand up... this is how they are trained. THAT is a fact. The guy was thrown against the care when he did something OTHER than what the copy just told him to do... then he resisted more. Watch the video again.

Clearly you have an issue with authority, much like this dirtbag did...

 

[Tweak155]

Originally posted by: Proprioceptive

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Proprioceptive
Sorry guys, but these cops were well within their rights to do EXACTLY what they did. EVERY time this guy is told to do something, he refuses... for almost 5 minutes, the cops just deal with this guy and finally just have him sit down. When the cop comes back and tells him to put his hands behind his back, this guy STANDS UP. That is stupid... so stupid it's unbelievable. I have been trained in situations like this, albeit in the military, but if someone does not comply with your orders, does something completely different, and then struggles with me when I try to stop him, he's getting all the force I can muster. This piece of trash deserved every hit he got. You do not resist an officer's orders. If this guy had complied from the beginning, none of this would be an issue at all.

What are you watching? He did not stand up but was pulled up. At 13:57 he was told to put his hands behind his back. You can see his right hand starts to go back and the cop grabs him and pulls him up and slams hiom on the car.

Maybe if you watched it with a open mind and not lets see what I can find to defend ther cops. Heck they even lied and said he hit them with a closed fist. Where is that? Even the DA dropped charges after watching as it did not happen.

Try it sometime.

I did and the DA, police cheif, etc... agree with what I saw as well.

Your turn.

You clearly did not watch the same video I did. This guy started to stand ON HIS OWN. His hand went back to support himself standing up. the DA and chief are politicians trying to keep their jobs because idiots like you don't know any better. You have clearly never been involved with a stituation like this.

Is the only way you can try to make your point is by insulting people? The video doesn't seem to represent this guy standing up on his own.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: Tweak155
Is the only way you can try to make your point is by insulting people? The video doesn't seem to represent this guy standing up on his own.

It also doesn't represent him complying with any orders.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
They should have never argued with him. The cops antagonized him several times and would try and hold him and let go. When he was removed from the car he should have been cuffed. No talking or threatening about impounding his car and such. They crossed the line when he was sitting on the ground and told him to put his hands behind his back and as his right hand started to go behind his back he was picked up and slammed on the car. Was the guy a idiot as well yes. But he is not trained to do this. This is not his job that has to go through hundreds of hours of training. He also never assulated the cops.

If the cops did as they were trained this would not have happened and their career would not be over now and looking at jail time. Let alone them lying on report.

...what? Are you truly this dense?

They are on paid administrative leave. What jail time are they facing right now? Enlighten me!

Originally posted by: Turin39789
I didn't see the article address whether the force was justified. Obviously the guy was being a dick and giving them a hard time, he obviously doesn't understand how traffic stops work here.

I imagine I'm going to screw up if I get pulled over in Mexico and don't know that I'm supposed to tell the officer that it isn't necessary and slip him a few pesos.


But assaulting an officer is a damn serious charge. Got to assume that has all kinds of ramifications in your life, and will likely fuck up your employment for life. Its supposed to be a serious charge because its a serious offence.

Writing this up like they did was fucked up.

Read the thread's title..

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Yep Cops should be able to tell anybody anything and lie about it no matter how wrong they are. Let alone make fun of them, file a false report, etc... :roll:

This entire stop was not on camera. Innocent until proven guilty, no? Or do you exempt cops from their Constitutional rights?

AGAIN instead of trying to defend the cops no matter what how about reading the WHOLE story...

"The officers have been suspended pending an internal affairs investigation. The state's attorney and the Department of Justice are also looking into this case."

Not leave, but suspended and the Dept of Justice is also now involved.

 

[Proprioceptive]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: Tweak155
Is the only way you can try to make your point is by insulting people? The video doesn't seem to represent this guy standing up on his own.

It also doesn't represent him complying with any orders.

IT sure does show him standing on his own. Man, you guys are seriously blind. watch the damn video and see how he attempts to stand on his own.

 

[Tweak155]

Originally posted by: Proprioceptive
Again, you didn't watch the video. He stood up on his own, and the copy had his hand on the guys back in case he DID try to stand up... this is how they are trained. THAT is a fact. The guy was thrown against the care when he did something OTHER than what the copy just told him to do... then he resisted more. Watch the video again.

This set of statements is ridiculous. I'm not for or against the cops but a few things you need to learn:

1 - What you are trained to do and what you do can be 2 different things. Yes, maybe it was FACT they were trained to do that (which in this case - How do YOU know what this guy was trained to do?) but doesn't mean that is what he was doing.

2 - You don't know why people do things so you can't state it as fact, only opinion. Until we see a statement from the cop (which even at that point could be a lie) as to why he did something, all you have are assumptions.



Personally I don't think it looks like he tried to stand up on his own. It happened too fast to be able to tell.

 

[Tweak155]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: Tweak155
Is the only way you can try to make your point is by insulting people? The video doesn't seem to represent this guy standing up on his own.

It also doesn't represent him complying with any orders.

Yeah I agree. I'm just trying to set facts straight based on what we see. I'm not for or against the cops at this point. I don't know why you think I'm trying to argue a certain way when I'm not.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Much like any other job, don't fuck up and you won't end up on the front page of the news. Your reward for not fucking up is that you get to keep your job and your paycheck.

What other job will get you on national news for fucking up? It's a pretty short list, is it not?

Depends on how badly you fuck up. Beating someone with a stick and having it caught on camera will probably get you in the news no matter what profession you happen to be in though.

 

[Tweak155]

Originally posted by: Proprioceptive

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: Tweak155
Is the only way you can try to make your point is by insulting people? The video doesn't seem to represent this guy standing up on his own.

It also doesn't represent him complying with any orders.

IT sure does show him standing on his own. Man, you guys are seriously blind. watch the damn video and see how he attempts to stand on his own.

It is too fast to tell. It is at the very minimum debatable. Claiming to ignorance doesn't make it a fact.

 

[Proprioceptive]

I have been involved in too many situations like this... I would have done exactly what he had done the first two times this happened to me, I was elbowed in the face and tripped the second time... the second guy was shot by my commanding officer. He had a knife in his pocket missed by the initial shakedown. I just can't argue anymore with people who cannot understand the situations like this first hand...

 

[KeithTalent]

I don't know it looks like the "victim" was acting like an idiot and not listening to the cops, but at the same time the cops overreacted when the guy was pretty obviously not a threat.

Fail all around.

KT

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Much like any other job, don't fuck up and you won't end up on the front page of the news. Your reward for not fucking up is that you get to keep your job and your paycheck.

What other job will get you on national news for fucking up? It's a pretty short list, is it not?

Depends on how badly you fuck up. Beating someone with a stick and having it caught on camera will probably get you in the news no matter what profession you happen to be in though.

So in other words, it's not like any other job.

Originally posted by: Tweak155

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: Tweak155
Is the only way you can try to make your point is by insulting people? The video doesn't seem to represent this guy standing up on his own.

It also doesn't represent him complying with any orders.

Yeah I agree. I'm just trying to set facts straight based on what we see. I'm not for or against the cops at this point. I don't know why you think I'm trying to argue a certain way when I'm not.

So am I.

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
AGAIN instead of trying to defend the cops no matter what how about reading the WHOLE story...

"The officers have been suspended pending an internal affairs investigation. The state's attorney and the Department of Justice are also looking into this case."

Not leave, but suspended and the Dept of Justice is also now involved.

Looking into != facing jail time. The original article posted in the OP stated paid administrative leave.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: KeithTalent
I don't know it looks like the "victim" was acting like an idiot and not listening to the cops, but at the same time the cops overreacted when the guy was pretty obviously not a threat.

Fail all around.

KT

Nothing is obvious.

 

[Tweak155]

Originally posted by: Proprioceptive
I have been involved in too many situations like this... I would have done exactly what he had done the first two times this happened to me, I was elbowed in the face and tripped the second time... the second guy was shot by my commanding officer. He had a knife in his pocket missed by the initial shakedown. I just can't argue anymore with people who cannot understand the situations like this first hand...

Haha. And every situation that occurs that are exactly like the 2 you just represented. :roll:

You don't know exactly what happened other than what is shown by the video - and it is clear you are just looking to justify the cops when it is debatable. So while you can give arguments to justify the cops, its still a debate whether you like it or not.

 

[40Hands]

Originally posted by: Proprioceptive

Originally posted by: 40Hands

Originally posted by: Proprioceptive
I like the Army's steps... shout, show, shove, SHOOT. No compliance between those steps means suckage for whomever you're dealing with.

Congrats! Go back to the army, you tool. You're not making any sense here anyways.

Please, I would love to hear why I am a tool. AND how I am not making any sense.

Come in here spouting all your military training nonsense. Ignoring the FACT that the officers falsely reported him hitting them. Blindly accepting that what they did was "well within their rights" when it obviously wasn't.

"Second-degree assault charges against 30-year-old Rafael Rodriguez were dropped Friday after prosecutors received a video that contradicted the arresting officer's allegations."

If the punch happened off camera, how did the video contradict what the officers stated? Hmmm? But I suppose you and your military knowledge can decipher the video and officers allegations better then the prosecutors and judge.

Tool.

 

[Proprioceptive]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: KeithTalent
I don't know it looks like the "victim" was acting like an idiot and not listening to the cops, but at the same time the cops overreacted when the guy was pretty obviously not a threat.

Fail all around

KT

Nothing is obvious.

:thumbsup: