Confederate Flag Waving Racist Gets Put To Sleep

[tcsenter]

I live I the south and to be honest from what I see the flag has taken on new meaning, it is not representative (by those who fly it now) of the Confederacy or the civil war, but rather a flag of southern pride. Sounds stupid, and I can see where people would be offended due to its history, but that is what I see that it currently stands for.

At the very least, there is a multi-generation trained-in denial of what happened in the South, and complete insensitivity or disregard for the experiences of blacks, their concerns, or their feelings. NOBODY in the 1940s, or 1950s, or 1960s, or even through much of the 1970s was in doubt about what the message was when that flag was hoisted above capitol buildings and county government offices to officially protest desegregation and the civil rights movement. There were NO whites complaining that the flag was being misused by anyone down there for 50+ years. There was NO controversy. It meant a big "fuck you" to people of color, to desegregation, to having to let them into white schools. Everyone knew what it meant.

 

[JulesMaximus]

But the government automatically is involved when violence ensues and has to defend your right to your constitutionally protected free speech.

relevant part in bold

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/remembering-the-nazis-in_b_188739.html

I'm not saying that it's right and I have no problem with free speech but if you deliberately say things that offend other people you can't act surprised when they ARE offended. And if they lash out at you, you kind of have to admit that you did bring it upon yourself.

At that point it's a matter for law enforcement.

Should he have a right to free speech? Sure, but not everyone may be open to hearing your ideas.

Of course, I'm assuming the guy in the video brought this upon himself. He wasn't there selling confederate girlscout cookies that's for sure. I can't make out a single thing from the audio and other than him looking like a toolbag in front of an angry mob and getting knocked the fuck out I don't know what to make of any of it.

I still don't give a rat's ass about him or whatever he was doing there. :biggrin:

I'm not from the south and I would never own or fly a confederate flag of any kind. If local governments decide not to fly that flag on public buildings I have no problem with it.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I'll assume you're making a sick joke, or perhaps just returned from Mars.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/06/17/charleston-south-carolina-shooting/28902017/

Is that the right link? That's about a church shooting. (obviously pretty terrible) but no idea what that has to do with a historic flag?

In other news hardware stores are so hard to find on mars. Had to look everywhere for a replacement M5 screw for the rover.

 

[feralkid]

Is that the right link? That's about a church shooting. (obviously pretty terrible) but no idea what that has to do with a historic flag?
.

Are you actually serious?

 

[olds]

Here I fixed the problem. Just replace them all with these:

Thanks

 

[CZroe]

Are you actually serious?

Are YOU? He's asking someone to alliterate the link between the two because that doesn't answer his original question at all.

Was he wearing a rebel flag when he shot those people? Was he talking about it? Did he say a single thing about the confederacy? There may have been some development that I missed, but the only thing I've heard linking him to any flags at all is that he had a Facebook photo with two completely different flag designs (Apartheid and something else)non his jacket.

 

[feralkid]

Are YOU? He's asking someone to alliterate the link between the two because that doesn't answer his original question at all.

Was he wearing a rebel flag when he shot those people? Was he talking about it? Did he say a single thing about the confederacy? There may have been some development that I missed, but the only thing I've heard linking him to any flags at all is that he had a Facebook photo with two completely different flag designs (Apartheid and something else)non his jacket.

Sorry, I assumed people actually paid attention to what has transpired over the last weeks.

Never mind.

 

[CZroe]

Sorry, I assumed people actually paid attention to what has transpired over the last weeks.

Never mind.

He specifically asked what the association is with the flag controversy. You specifically failed to establish that link. Now we know who's also not paying attention.

 

[Fingolfin269]

I guess I was saying that "We" (as you said) think someone who has the flag is "probably a racist" because we are told that by outside sources. News, other people, etc. Not that we actually witness someone being racist with it. Again, I am sure people have witnessed such events, but not all. And claiming as much is silly. This can be said for several things. Something gets spammed all over the internet and news, word spreads and all the sudden we think one way when we didn't before.

I don't know what else to tell you. I've lived here almost 40 years and formed my opinion on people who fly that flag well before 'media' was nearly as invasive as it is today. My opinion was formed by personal experience well before something could be spammed by external forces other than real life actual people.

Some of the things happening today are definitely going further than I would want. The Dukes of Hazard car and TV deal are both ridiculous. But none of that changes the fact that if there were some type of rally, "fly your Confederate flag day", wear a shirt day, etc. None of the people I know who say they supposedly support this flag as a symbol of Southern Pride would actually do anything to actively and publicly support it. They know what people would assume about them.

 

[feralkid]

He specifically asked what the association is with the flag controversy. You specifically failed to establish that link. Now we know who's also not paying attention.

What's your problem? Are you my personal troll?

The entire nation has been agonizing over this for the last two weeks.

If you missed it, that's your problem, not mine.

 

[Ichinisan]

What's your problem? Are you my personal troll?

The entire nation has been agonizing over this for the last two weeks.

If you missed it, that's your problem, not mine.

Red Squirrel lives in another nation.

 

[CZroe]

What's your problem? Are you my personal troll?

The entire nation has been agonizing over this for the last two weeks.

If you missed it, that's your problem, not mine.

...and there it is. After joining the bandwagon, you tried to shame someone else for not knowing how it was linked when you just accepted that there was a link and YOU don't even know how or why it's connected. You say I missed it, you say he missed it, and it looks like you are the one who missed that there was no link.

It was a valid question. Why was that seemingly unrelated tragedy by a racist gunman used as a launch pad for renewed protest against an offensive flag? Where is the link other than "he was racist and the flag represents racists?"

 

[pcgeek11]

I think that the rest of the nation should look at the way things have been done here in South Carolina and take some notes. Everyone is quick to label anyone ( white ) from South Carolina as a bigot and a racist. It is obvious that the whites and blacks get along better down here than in most of the country. No towns burned, No riots etc... We all came together as a community and stood together in the face of controversy. Even when outsiders came in a attempted to just stir things up for their own personal benefits.

I think that the evidence speaks for itself. The other states would do well to mind their own business and clean up their own back yards.

 

[Humpy]

I had just assumed that the church shooter kid had a bunch of these confederate flags posted on his facebook page or something and that's what started all this anti-flag stuff. That's not the case?

 

[Ichinisan]

I had just assumed that the church shooter kid had a bunch of these confederate flags posted on his facebook page or something and that's what started all this anti-flag stuff. That's not the case?

I think that's exactly what it was.

 

[CZroe]

I had just assumed that the church shooter kid had a bunch of these confederate flags posted on his facebook page or something and that's what started all this anti-flag stuff. That's not the case?

His Facebook page only had a Apartheid and Rhodesia flags, IIRC. I see reports that he had a "Confederate States" novelty plate on his car featuring multiple Confederate flags. That's all I can find so far.

Edit:
Looks like he set up a manifesto site with a couple. There it is.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I think that the rest of the nation should look at the way things have been done here in South Carolina and take some notes. Everyone is quick to label anyone ( white ) from South Carolina as a bigot and a racist. It is obvious that the whites and blacks get along better down here than in most of the country. No towns burned, No riots etc... We all came together as a community and stood together in the face of controversy. Even when outsiders came in a attempted to just stir things up for their own personal benefits.

I think that the evidence speaks for itself. The other states would do well to mind their own business and clean up their own back yards.

I think you should stop and actually look at yourself. You clearly do not get it. No one is labeling all whites as bigots, and if they are they're dumbass crazy fringe extremists.

And no, you don't have to be a racist to defend the Confederate flag, but you are an idiot who is outright delusional about what that flag stands for if you do. And that's the issue. This shooting (which is a separate but definitely related issue) just brought that issue back to the forefront. The reality is, it's been an issue for 150 years, and it continues to be used by racist pieces of shit, because it is intrinsically linked to racism. But there's people who still to this day keep trying to claim otherwise, and go insane when people explain to them how wrong they are. They still try to claim this even though their forebears that they claim they're celebrating by celebrating that flag, outright said specifically that they turned their back on America in order to be able to keep their subjugation and enslavement of blacks. Actually they didn't just turn their back on America they outright started a war over it.

Also, here's the thing, pretending that racism isn't still an issue is blatantly delusional as well. Things have improved monumentally, although the fact that you try to pretend things are fine when its more that things are much improved from when a group of people used to literally own another race is telling. I'd have to ask how old you are, but then I wouldn't be surprised to find that if you grew up in South Carolina they've probably downplayed quite a lot of their history, so it wouldn't shock me that certain things that took place between 1850 and 1970 might be a little fuzzy for you, or that you might think race relations are fine there.

It's just sad that you talk about people minding their business, when you're defending a state that still claims pride in the Confederacy. South Carolina made it the entire nation's business back in December of 1860. And, lest we forget, South Carolina literally started the Civil War. Simply put, in a group of racists, South Carolina was the worst. That's what you need to understand is there is history involved here, and why that's a big fucking deal.

I think that's exactly what it was.

His Facebook page only had a Apartheid and Rhodesia flags, IIRC. It looks like he had a "Confederate States" novelty plate on his car featuring multiple flags. That's all I can find so far.

Edit:
Looks like he set up a manifesto site with a couple. There it is.

See you added the manifesto. I was like, what the fuck? That's all you can find? Plus multiple people that have interacted with him have said he's gone on crazy rants and said he was going to shoot up a school.

 

[pcgeek11]

I think you should stop and actually look at yourself. You clearly do not get it. No one is labeling all whites as bigots, and if they are they're dumbass crazy fringe extremists.

And no, you don't have to be a racist to defend the Confederate flag, but you are an idiot who is outright delusional about what that flag stands for if you do. And that's the issue. This shooting (which is a separate but definitely related issue) just brought that issue back to the forefront. The reality is, it's been an issue for 150 years, and it continues to be used by racist pieces of shit, because it is intrinsically linked to racism. But there's people who still to this day keep trying to claim otherwise, and go insane when people explain to them how wrong they are. They still try to claim this even though their forebears that they claim they're celebrating by celebrating that flag, outright said specifically that they turned their back on America in order to be able to keep their subjugation and enslavement of blacks. Actually they didn't just turn their back on America they outright started a war over it.

Also, here's the thing, pretending that racism isn't still an issue is blatantly delusional as well. Things have improved monumentally, although the fact that you try to pretend things are fine when its more that things are much improved from when a group of people used to literally own another race is telling. I'd have to ask how old you are, but then I wouldn't be surprised to find that if you grew up in South Carolina they've probably downplayed quite a lot of their history, so it wouldn't shock me that certain things that took place between 1850 and 1970 might be a little fuzzy for you, or that you might think race relations are fine there.

It's just sad that you talk about people minding their business, when you're defending a state that still claims pride in the Confederacy. South Carolina made it the entire nation's business back in December of 1860. And, lest we forget, South Carolina literally started the Civil War. Simply put, in a group of racists, South Carolina was the worst. That's what you need to understand is there is history involved here, and why that's a big fucking deal.

See you added the manifesto. I was like, what the fuck? That's all you can find? Plus multiple people that have interacted with him have said he's gone on crazy rants and said he was going to shoot up a school.

Obviously what I said and the point I was making is way above your head.

 

[SP33Demon]

Also, here's the thing, pretending that racism isn't still an issue is blatantly delusional as well. Things have improved monumentally, although the fact that you try to pretend things are fine when its more that things are much improved from when a group of people used to literally own another race is telling. I'd have to ask how old you are, but then I wouldn't be surprised to find that if you grew up in South Carolina they've probably downplayed quite a lot of their history, so it wouldn't shock me that certain things that took place between 1850 and 1970 might be a little fuzzy for you, or that you might think race relations are fine there.

Racism still exists because it's self voluntary. Self segregation is proof of this, where do people choose to live? With others like them. Even when public policy guides "diversity", studies show it fails miserably and will never work, even when run over a million times in a computer model from an academically acclaimed institution.
http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2013/study-asks-is-a-better-world-possible/

Need further proof? There's no better proof than where people choose where to make one of the biggest investments of their lives (a house). Look at a map of racial "diversity" in the country:
http://www.coopercenter.org/demographics/Racial-Dot-Map

True diversity (i.e. getting people to completely mix geographically) doesn't work and never will. People will always gravitate to others more like them, this has been proven to be human nature and it will need to be accepted as fact rather than theory sooner or later as more and more studies validate it. We are all inherently "racist" to some degree.

 

[highland145]

I had just assumed that the church shooter kid had a bunch of these confederate flags posted on his facebook page or something and that's what started all this anti-flag stuff. That's not the case?

One pic had him in a Gold's Gym shirt. Definitely ban worthy. Most definitely.

 

[edro]

Racism still exists because it's self voluntary. Self segregation is proof of this, where do people choose to live? With others like them. Even when public policy guides "diversity", studies show it fails miserably and will never work, even when run over a million times in a computer model from an academically acclaimed institution.
http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2013/study-asks-is-a-better-world-possible/

Need further proof? There's no better proof than where people choose where to make one of the biggest investments of their lives (a house). Look at a map of racial "diversity" in the country:
http://www.coopercenter.org/demographics/Racial-Dot-Map

True diversity (i.e. getting people to completely mix geographically) doesn't work and never will. People will always gravitate to others more like them, this has been proven to be human nature and it will need to be accepted as fact rather than theory sooner or later as more and more studies validate it. We are all inherently "racist" to some degree.

Stop with all your racist science. (jk)

 

[feralkid]

...and there it is. After joining the bandwagon, you tried to shame someone else for not knowing how it was linked when you just accepted that there was a link and YOU don't even know how or why it's connected. You say I missed it, you say he missed it, and it looks like you are the one who missed that there was no link.

It was a valid question. Why was that seemingly unrelated tragedy by a racist gunman used as a launch pad for renewed protest against an offensive flag? Where is the link other than "he was racist and the flag represents racists?"

Nice job, Matlock.

Except I never said any of that.

Never tried to "Shame" anyone.

Never joined any "bandwagon".

Never took one side or the other on this Dumbass-debate you are so enamored with, so What the Hell would you have had me link?

Find another strawman and sharpen your reading comprehension skills before you start your next internet-pissing contest.

You're barking up the wrong tree.

 

[CZroe]

Nice job, Matlock.

Except I never said any of that.

Never tried to "Shame" anyone.

Never joined any "bandwagon".

What do you call this?

Is that the right link? That's about a church shooting. (obviously pretty terrible) but no idea what that has to do with a historic flag?



In other news hardware stores are so hard to find on mars. Had to look everywhere for a replacement M5 screw for the rover.

Are you actually serious?

Sorry, I assumed people actually paid attention to what has transpired over the last weeks.



Never mind.

You were trying to shame people for not knowing how that article explains the link or for paying attention. It didn't start there either: it started with your "Mars" statement.

Obviously, I could have paid closer attention, but the manifesto was discovered after the Facebook page and neither the initial story you linked to nor the follow-up Facebook story linked the shooter to that specific flag. The link wasn't until his manifesto, by which time I was tired of reading the same rehashed blurbs about the shooting and his Facebook page and only gleaned that he was captured and that there was renewed controversy about the rebel flag. Nearly every article on the flag controversy just pointed back to the shooting with nothing about how it was related, so his question was valid.

It would've been better if you simply never said anything and let someone who actually had the answer answer his question. I could've just lurked and gotten the answer from someone who knew but, thanks to you and people starting to say it was on Facebook when it wasn't, I had to go digging.

 

[Humpy]

One pic had him in a Gold's Gym shirt. Definitely ban worthy. Most definitely.

He is gay and a racist?

 

[monkeydelmagico]

He is gay and a racist?

He needs one of these flags too: