Cold Air Intakes

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2
Randay asked if CAI's are useless with intercoolers, and they pretty much are, so I said Yes Randay, they are useless. And you go all about saying NO, and said how CAI's are useless, which is exactly what I said. Way to go.

They're not useless, but there's definitely better bang-for-buck upgrades.

Also, note the bolded parts of ZV's parent post in relation to yours immediately following.

ZV: "Now, will that give a significant difference? No because on a high power engine the 3-5 hp that a CAI can add (best case) will be something like a 1-2% increase, which won't even be enough to feel ... you'd be better served by simply getting more airflow to the intercooler"
Conclusion - CAI on FI isn't really worth it, because the IC does a better job of cooling.

R2: "If you have an intercooler don't bother getting a CAI, the intercooler will do the job well enough. Adding a CAI will result in practically no improvement. Zemmervolt, your formula looks good on paper, but the Y variable would be too little to even make a difference if the X variable is a hefty number."
Conclusion - CAI on FI isn't really worth it, because the IC does a better job of cooling.

You said the same damn thing he did.

- M4H

Yeah but I said YES to Randays question and ZV said NO.

classic short answer "yes," long answer "no, but" situation, and this guy just can't shut up.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: OS

i'm just getting warmed up yo

screw the car, i'm taking the girl

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2
Since they're pretty cheap and and actually increase the HP somewhat I'm thinking about putting in a cold air intake in my chrysler.

The question is, can I use the factory air intake tube and just buy a coupler and filter, or do I have to get a new intake tube as well? Thanks a whole bunch!

what car, OP?

1997 Chrysler Cirrus LXi

Completely ignoring the fact that this is not a performance car, I will answer by saying that there is no reason to buy an aftermarket CAI, as it already has one from the factory. Look at the air filter box, where does the inlet hose on the bottom draw air from?

...

:Q

The whole point of a CAI is to lose the factory filter box and get a cone filter. Sorry to break it to you, but my car doesn't come with a factory CAI.

Trust me, it does. Almost all cars made in the past 15 years have factory cold air intakes. The air inlet draws from a hole in the fender (or behind the headlight), with a reservoir to prevent hydrolock and a silencer for the induction noise. If they're inefficient compared to aftermarket intakes, it's because of smaller diameter hoses or twists and bends in the hoses, and not because of air temperature at the inlet.

Panel filter versus cone filter? What's the difference in area between the 2? I bet it's little to nothing at all. Tell ya what, take that panel filter and roll it into a cone...

 

[Ragnarok2]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2
Since they're pretty cheap and and actually increase the HP somewhat I'm thinking about putting in a cold air intake in my chrysler.

The question is, can I use the factory air intake tube and just buy a coupler and filter, or do I have to get a new intake tube as well? Thanks a whole bunch!

what car, OP?

1997 Chrysler Cirrus LXi

Completely ignoring the fact that this is not a performance car, I will answer by saying that there is no reason to buy an aftermarket CAI, as it already has one from the factory. Look at the air filter box, where does the inlet hose on the bottom draw air from?

...

:Q

The whole point of a CAI is to lose the factory filter box and get a cone filter. Sorry to break it to you, but my car doesn't come with a factory CAI.

Trust me, it does. Almost all cars made in the past 15 years have factory cold air intakes. The air inlet draws from a hole in the fender (or behind the headlight), with a reservoir to prevent hydrolock and a silencer for the induction noise. If they're inefficient compared to aftermarket intakes, it's because of smaller diameter hoses or twists and bends in the hoses, and not because of air temperature at the inlet.

Panel filter versus cone filter? What's the difference in area between the 2? I bet it's little to nothing at all. Tell ya what, take that panel filter and roll it into a cone...

It might draw air from farther down, but I still wouldn't consider it a cold air intake completely. The factory tubes apparently suck, the filter box with paper filters is restrictive. If I got better tubing and a K&N filter for the filter box, then I could call it a CAI.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2
The whole point of a CAI is to lose the factory filter box and get a cone filter. Sorry to break it to you, but my car doesn't come with a factory CAI.

Wrong. The point of a CAI is to relocate the air intake to a position where it pulls in air from outside the engine compartment (typically a fender area or somewhere in the front bumper bodywork).

In almost all modern cars, the intake point for the factory air filter is already situated in a cool location that is away from engine heat as much as is possible. The difference is that factory intakes typially have addition restrictions due to resonance concerns that aftermarket products simply ignore.

You're simply using the marketing terms from aftermarket companies that call any filter conversion kit a CAI and neglecting the fact that the factory intake is already pulling in air from outside the engine compartment.

ZV

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Have you decided on a '96 yet?

- M4H

I'm thinking something ugly and cheap to keep my girlfriend from wanting to drive it.

ZV

Turbo Volvo

Ill sell you mine

I've already got one
Well, it's a 90, not a 96, but it does me just fine.

 

[OS]

link

get that and run it no filter

:thumbsup:

 

[Ragnarok2]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2
The whole point of a CAI is to lose the factory filter box and get a cone filter. Sorry to break it to you, but my car doesn't come with a factory CAI.

Wrong. The point of a CAI is to relocate the air intake to a position where it pulls in air from outside the engine compartment (typically a fender area or somewhere in the front bumper bodywork).

In almost all modern cars, the intake point for the factory air filter is already situated in a cool location that is away from engine heat as much as is possible. The difference is that factory intakes typially have addition restrictions due to resonance concerns that aftermarket products simply ignore.

You're simply using the marketing terms from aftermarket companies that call any filter conversion kit a CAI and neglecting the fact that the factory intake is already pulling in air from outside the engine compartment.

ZV

So you're saying that I should keep my plastic factory intake tubes and filter box with a paper filter over aluminum tubes and K&N cone filter?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
My fault for not being clear, but your fault for acting like an ass.

Deal with it Shirley. If you post something stupid, you're going to get your ass handed to you. Welcome to life, here's your helmet, go cry somewhere else.

Originally posted by: Aikouka
You forgot a variable in yer equation there... air temperature being increased by turbocharger compression as you don't find too many intercoolers on cars that don't have forced compression systems.

That variable cancels out. Compression increases temperature by z degrees, total temp would then be "intake temp + z - x - y". As z would be a constant, it's irrelevant to the consideration of the system.

ZV

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD with a JDM low-mileage evo3 4G63T installed (by me).

:thumbsup: for the DIY install. Shame about the glazed clutch though.

I don't have a Sebring though, I have a 2002 Stratus SE and yes, it is a 2.4L .

Stratus = Sebring.

- M4H

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2
The whole point of a CAI is to lose the factory filter box and get a cone filter. Sorry to break it to you, but my car doesn't come with a factory CAI.

Wrong. The point of a CAI is to relocate the air intake to a position where it pulls in air from outside the engine compartment (typically a fender area or somewhere in the front bumper bodywork).

In almost all modern cars, the intake point for the factory air filter is already situated in a cool location that is away from engine heat as much as is possible. The difference is that factory intakes typially have addition restrictions due to resonance concerns that aftermarket products simply ignore.

You're simply using the marketing terms from aftermarket companies that call any filter conversion kit a CAI and neglecting the fact that the factory intake is already pulling in air from outside the engine compartment.

ZV

So you're saying that I should keep my plastic factory intake tubes and filter box with a paper filter over aluminum tubes and K&N cone filter?

depends on what color the plastic is, if its purple, then yes, if green, then no.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: Vic
Trust me, it does. Almost all cars made in the past 15 years have factory cold air intakes. The air inlet draws from a hole in the fender (or behind the headlight), with a reservoir to prevent hydrolock and a silencer for the induction noise. If they're inefficient compared to aftermarket intakes, it's because of smaller diameter hoses or twists and bends in the hoses, and not because of air temperature at the inlet.

Panel filter versus cone filter? What's the difference in area between the 2? I bet it's little to nothing at all. Tell ya what, take that panel filter and roll it into a cone...

Yup, I learned this one from being a car noob. I owned a 1987 Mustang GT and wanted to do some work to it, including possibly installing a cold air intake. How fast were the Mustang experts to point at that the car basically already had one, and that I would be wasting my money. They also recommended some sort of do-it-yourself (15 minutes) work to get it to work just as well as an aftermarket intake (like you mentioned above with smaller diameter hoses).

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: OS

i'm just getting warmed up yo

screw the car, i'm taking the girl

I'd rather screw the girl and take the car, but whatever floats your boat.

- M4H

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Aikouka
1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD with a JDM low-mileage evo3 4G63T installed (by me).

:thumbsup: for the DIY install. Shame about the glazed clutch though.

I don't have a Sebring though, I have a 2002 Stratus SE and yes, it is a 2.4L .

Stratus = Sebring.

- M4H

Yeah, the Talon was a really nice car . Very very fun to drive, especially since it was my first manual experience. You should've seen what the original owner of the car did to it, though... I'm really not surprised the clutch glazed over. See, I didn't just buy a JDM engine for shits and giggles, I had to replace the engine. I had problems finding a good replacement, so that's why I went with a JDM, but what the original owner did... :Q. I have no idea how he did it, but he ended up shooting a rod through the engine block and completely mangling another one of the pistons. What I'm surprised is... that he only bent one valve.

Also, I know that the Stratus is the same as the Sebring . Except Sebrings are usually a bit ritzier on the inside, but mechanically the same. I was just being more specific on what type of car I have.

EDIT: I have pics from the destroyed engine if you want to see .

 

[Ragnarok2]

I understand that a CAI won't make my Chrysler sedan gain lots of HP, but hey, it still does something, and it does look nice under the hood, which increases the resell value even if by a little. They're pretty cheap nowadays anyway, so why not get one eh? Isn't it a better idea to just get a CAI rather than go and buy a $20 paper filter for the factory intake?

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: OS

i'm just getting warmed up yo

screw the car, i'm taking the girl

I'd rather screw the girl and take the car, but whatever floats your boat.

- M4H

Well, I've already got plenty of cars... so how about I just let you take the car and I handle the rest?

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2
I understand that a CAI won't make my Chrysler sedan gain lots of HP, but hey, it still does something, and it does look nice under the hood, which increases the resell value even if by a little. They're pretty cheap nowadays anyway, so why not get one eh? Isn't it a better idea to just get a CAI rather than go and buy a $20 paper filter for the factory intake?

AFAIK, aftermarket mods like that do the opposite to resale value.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2
So you're saying that I should keep my plastic factory intake tubes and filter box with a paper filter over aluminum tubes and K&N cone filter?

Given that the performance increase is incredibly unlikely to result in any measureable performance gains (remember that 5 hp is still less than the margin of error for most chassis dynometers) and that the stock filter will offer superior filtration (and therefore superior protection) while being easier to change out and less hassle (have you ever refreshed a K&N type filter, the instructions say to let it sit for 30 minutes to an hour after applying the new oil before driving the car and you spend a good 20 minutes washing the bloody thing and waiting for it to dry before you can oil it) I would recommend staying stock. I also don't buy the "you save money in the long run" because the amount of time to recoup the difference is quite long. A paper air filter is a 30,000 mile, $15 item. In 120,000 miles you'll have spent $60 on air filters, which is about the price of a cheap K&N style kit. Of course, that doesn't take into account the time it takes to refresh the K&N filter once a year. The ease of replacing a factory paper filter is just too much more convenient in my mind.

I've tried oiled-gauze filters and they are, IMO, more trouble than they are worth for a car that isn't going to see a racetrack. If you're going to be autocrossing and going to track days, then go for it, every last bit helps when you're competing for hundredths of a second. On the street, it doesn't work out that way.

EDIT: This will take the resale value DOWN, not up. If you plan to sell the car, keep all the original tubing and put the factory pieces back on before you sell it. Aftermarket mods are always a gamble. You never know what kind of crazy stuff the owner did and I've always stayed away from cars with them unless there was some hefty documentation and a full mechanic's validation.

ZV

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
AFAIK, aftermarket mods like that do the opposite to resale value.

I actually think it does pretty much nothing, unless it's a significant amount of aftermarket work done by a reputable 3rd party. Then you may see an increase in worth, but that's still only to the right person.

EDIT: ZV, everyone knows you install a K&N for the +5HP K&N sticker you get .

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Aikouka
1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD with a JDM low-mileage evo3 4G63T installed (by me).

:thumbsup: for the DIY install. Shame about the glazed clutch though.

I don't have a Sebring though, I have a 2002 Stratus SE and yes, it is a 2.4L .

Stratus = Sebring.

- M4H

Yeah, the Talon was a really nice car . Very very fun to drive, especially since it was my first manual experience. You should've seen what the original owner of the car did to it, though... I'm really not surprised the clutch glazed over. See, I didn't just buy a JDM engine for shits and giggles, I had to replace the engine. I had problems finding a good replacement, so that's why I went with a JDM, but what the original owner did... :Q. I have no idea how he did it, but he ended up shooting a rod through the engine block and completely mangling another one of the pistons. What I'm surprised is... that he only bent one valve.

Also, I know that the Stratus is the same as the Sebring . Except Sebrings are usually a bit ritzier on the inside, but mechanically the same. I was just being more specific on what type of car I have.

EDIT: I have pics from the destroyed engine if you want to see .

"Windowing." :laugh: Probably just dialed up the boost and didn't install any supporting mods.

- M4H

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: OS

i'm just getting warmed up yo

screw the car, i'm taking the girl

I'd rather screw the girl and take the car, but whatever floats your boat.

- M4H

Well, I've already got plenty of cars... so how about I just let you take the car and I handle the rest?

Long as I can borrow the use of the back seat for an hour.

...

Actually, let's make it front and back, and two hours.

...

Gimme three, I want to test the spoiler.

...

Why don't we make it an overnighter?

- M4H

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: OS

i'm just getting warmed up yo

screw the car, i'm taking the girl

I'd rather screw the girl and take the car, but whatever floats your boat.

- M4H

 

[randay]

I think ill reinstall my stock filter now. I need my gas mileage back!

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
"Windowing." :laugh: Probably just dialed up the boost and didn't install any supporting mods.

- M4H

Oh god, I have no idea.. I saw no evidence of any boost tuning, so I still have no idea what happened.

Oh and one of the other problems is a natural issue with the car... at higher speeds, the car has an issue with its water-to-water oil cooling system. The oil filter has an issue seating on the cooler and it causes small gaps which causes drops in the oil pressure from the "squirting." The only known remedy for this was to replace the entire oil cooling system, but luckily, my engine did actually come with the proper oil filter housing with the air cooling hook-ups. I just don't have one of the mini-coolers or the metal hoses.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2
So you're saying that I should keep my plastic factory intake tubes and filter box with a paper filter over aluminum tubes and K&N cone filter?

Given that the performance increase is incredibly unlikely to result in any measureable performance gains (remember that 5 hp is still less than the margin of error for most chassis dynometers) and that the stock filter will offer superior filtration (and therefore superior protection) while being easier to change out and less hassle (have you ever refreshed a K&N type filter, the instructions say to let it sit for 30 minutes to an hour after applying the new oil before driving the car and you spend a good 20 minutes washing the bloody thing and waiting for it to dry before you can oil it) I would recommend staying stock. I also don't buy the "you save money in the long run" because the amount of time to recoup the difference is quite long. A paper air filter is a 30,000 mile, $15 item. In 120,000 miles you'll have spent $60 on air filters, which is about the price of a cheap K&N style kit. Of course, that doesn't take into account the time it takes to refresh the K&N filter once a year. The ease of replacing a factory paper filter is just too much more convenient in my mind.

I've tried oiled-gauze filters and they are, IMO, more trouble than they are worth for a car that isn't going to see a racetrack. If you're going to be autocrossing and going to track days, then go for it, every last bit helps when you're competing for hundredths of a second. On the street, it doesn't work out that way.

EDIT: This will take the resale value DOWN, not up. If you plan to sell the car, keep all the original tubing and put the factory pieces back on before you sell it. Aftermarket mods are always a gamble. You never know what kind of crazy stuff the owner did and I've always stayed away from cars with them unless there was some hefty documentation and a full mechanic's validation.

ZV

AEM dryflow

:thumbsup: