Cold Air Intakes

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: joshsquall
I'll be adding a CAI to my 06 Mustang GT sometime soon, along with a custom tune. Most people are reporting 10-20 HP and a much better throttle response. Most of that is the tune, I'm sure, but the CAI probably adds 3-5 HP when replacing a somewhat restrictive airbox.

And you have a high performance V8 engine. He has an economy four banger.

Actually, he's got a 2.5L Chrysler V6.

Point remains though. An intake will benefit the engine if the intake is the restricting factor.

- M4H

 

[Ragnarok2]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2
Also, just to clarify, I'm not talking about Short Ram Intakes which suck in hot air and are extremely noisy, Im talking about Cold Air Intakes, which suck in, duh, cold air and aren't near as noisy. Theres quite a difference.

Eh, I just hope you realize that they just help you isolate the air filter from the rest of the engine compartment to help reduce the temperature increase from the ambient heat given off by the engine. Some are simplistic and literally are no more than a "heat shield." Some place your air filter in a different spot, which usually ends up being lower on the car... typically near a spot where you'd find a factory intercooler on a car (the small ones, not the full ICs).

I agree with the other guy, I would not use the stock piping with these. Unless the car is designed for performance (which Chrysler cars... not so much), there's a very high chance that the stock piping (pretty much all of it) is restrictive.

Oh and my old "Chrysler" 4-banger had 200HP . Albeit it was a DSM, which was half Chrysler at the time my car was made, so it counts, damnit. My current Chrysler only has about 145 though, and it's most definitely not nearly as fast or responsive as the other car.

What Chrysler did you have and which one do you have now?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
Colder air compresses better, which means it provides less resistance to the push of the piston, which means that there's less energy being wasted on that compression stroke.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....

Wow, that's one of the funniest things I've heard in a long, long time. And I've heard some whoppers from people who think they know about cars.

Colder air is denser. This makes it slightly more difficult to compress (not enough to make any real-world difference at all though).

The power increase from colder air is due to the increased density. Because the air is denser, it contains more oxygen per given unit volume. More oxygen allows the engine to burn more fuel, which creates more power. This is one of the reasons that cars typically get poorer mileage in the winter. The colder, denser air causes the FI system to compensate for the extra oxygen by injecting more fuel.

Whoever told you that "colder air compresses better" should be banned from even touching a car as they obviously have no clue.

ZV

 

[thehstrybean]

Get the whole kit. K&N is good, but there are others. I'm going to put one on my Jeep Cherokee....

 

[Ragnarok2]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: joshsquall
I'll be adding a CAI to my 06 Mustang GT sometime soon, along with a custom tune. Most people are reporting 10-20 HP and a much better throttle response. Most of that is the tune, I'm sure, but the CAI probably adds 3-5 HP when replacing a somewhat restrictive airbox.

And you have a high performance V8 engine. He has an economy four banger.

Actually, V-6.

 

[Ragnarok2]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: joshsquall
I'll be adding a CAI to my 06 Mustang GT sometime soon, along with a custom tune. Most people are reporting 10-20 HP and a much better throttle response. Most of that is the tune, I'm sure, but the CAI probably adds 3-5 HP when replacing a somewhat restrictive airbox.

And you have a high performance V8 engine. He has an economy four banger.

Actually, he's got a 2.5L Chrysler V6.

Point remains though. An intake will benefit the engine if the intake is the restricting factor.

- M4H

Yeah my factory intake kinda blows. I have a crappy paper filter in there, and instead of buying a $60 K&N Filter I think I'll just get a cold air intake for the same money.

 

[Ragnarok2]

Originally posted by: thehstrybean
Get the whole kit. K&N is good, but there are others. I'm going to put one on my Jeep Cherokee....

Yeah K&N and AEM are both amazing, but crazy expensive. I think I'll look around the local AutoZone and PepBoys for a cheaper filter.

My friend that I was talking about, installed a cold air into his Dodge Neon(the regular not srt-4), which is a 4 banger by the way if you wanna call it that, and his cold air has helped him out by 5 HP, not to mention better response and MPG.(yes hes been on the dyno)

So I dont see why all the negativity from most of you people.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2
What Chrysler did you have and which one do you have now?

I'm going to guess Talon TSI for the former, then when he put a leash on his crank and took it for a nice long walk, he got a 2.4L mid-size, like a Sebring.

Not meant to insult anyone, just taking random guesses for my own amusement.

- M4H

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Aikouka
Colder air compresses better, which means it provides less resistance to the push of the piston, which means that there's less energy being wasted on that compression stroke.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....

Wow, that's one of the funniest things I've heard in a long, long time. And I've heard some whoppers from people who think they know about cars.

Colder air is denser. This makes it slightly more difficult to compress (not enough to make any real-world difference at all though).

The power increase from colder air is due to the increased density. Because the air is denser, it contains more oxygen per given unit volume. More oxygen allows the engine to burn more fuel, which creates more power. This is one of the reasons that cars typically get poorer mileage in the winter. The colder, denser air causes the FI system to compensate for the extra oxygen by injecting more fuel.

Whoever told you that "colder air compresses better" should be banned from even touching a car as they obviously have no clue.

ZV

I'd love to see you watch Fast and the Furious while amped up on some sort of rant-inducing substance, then just write down everything I could between fits of laughter.

- M4H

 

[thehstrybean]

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2

Originally posted by: thehstrybean
Get the whole kit. K&N is good, but there are others. I'm going to put one on my Jeep Cherokee....

Yeah K&N and AEM are both amazing, but crazy expensive. I think I'll look around the local AutoZone and PepBoys for a cheaper filter.

My friend that I was talking about, installed a cold air into his Dodge Neon(the regular not srt-4), which is a 4 banger by the way if you wanna call it that, and his cold air has helped him out by 5 HP, not to mention better response and MPG.(yes hes been on the dyno)

So I dont see why all the negativity from most of you people.

I find that for my car, AEM is by far the best, but they're hard to find at a good price. I'll probably go K&N. Also, I have a friend who has a Jeep Wrangler with an I6, and he said that a new filter helped him at higher RPMs and has increased his MPG. Depends on how much more performance you want, really. I'm gonna go with a new filter, but add a snorkel later.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2

Originally posted by: thehstrybean
Get the whole kit. K&N is good, but there are others. I'm going to put one on my Jeep Cherokee....

Yeah K&N and AEM are both amazing, but crazy expensive. I think I'll look around the local AutoZone and PepBoys for a cheaper filter.

My friend that I was talking about, installed a cold air into his Dodge Neon(the regular not srt-4), which is a 4 banger by the way if you wanna call it that, and his cold air has helped him out by 5 HP, not to mention better response and MPG.(yes hes been on the dyno)

So I dont see why all the negativity from most of you people.

I put a CAI in a neon too, and the only thing it really did was make it louder. The high end gain was near imperceptible, but the low end loss def was. I went WOT in the rain once, and my CEL blinked...good thing it wasnt total hydrolock.

I also put in an exhaust - same deal...it was just louder.

The only mod that actually had some benefit was a UDP.

5whp is nearly imperceptible. You want more performance, you have a few realistic choices.

1)Step harder on the gas pedal. Unless you go WOT all the time, this will work well.
2)Take out your subs. The reduced weight will give you as much if not more performance than the CAI.
3)Turbocharge
4)New car

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2
I have a crappy paper filter in there

Paper filters provide vastly superior filtration to K&N or other oiled-gauze filters. You can have filtration or you can have flow. I can guarantee that you will have more dirt and dust sucked into your engine with a K&N filter than you will with the stock paper filter.

ZV

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2
So I dont see why all the negativity from most of you people.

Because 5hp will not provide any measureble increase in acceleration. You need approximately a 15% increase in power to have a measureable impact on the car's actual acceleration times.

ZV

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: BD2003
1)Step harder on the gas pedal. Unless you go WOT all the time, this will work well.
2)Take out your subs. The reduced weight will give you as much if not more performance than the CAI.
3)Turbocharge
4)New car
5)NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWZZZZZZZZZZ

:laugh:

- M4H

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
I'd love to see you watch Fast and the Furious while amped up on some sort of rant-inducing substance

My friends will tell you that I really don't need any extra help to get me into rant mode. And today I'm feeling especially annoyed (for non-forums reasons), so if this thread continues, there will certainly be some more examples.

ZV

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

The power increase from colder air is due to the increased density.

ZV

well, that and heat engines are more efficient with a colder intake temperature

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
I'd love to see you watch Fast and the Furious while amped up on some sort of rant-inducing substance

My friends will tell you that I really don't need any extra help to get me into rant mode. And today I'm feeling especially annoyed (for non-forums reasons), so if this thread continues, there will certainly be some more examples.

ZV

/unfolds a second lawnchair

Have you decided on a '96 yet?

- M4H

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

/unfolds a second lawnchair

Have you decided on a '96 yet?

- M4H

i'm going with M3 sedan. part sensible sedan, all sports car.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Have you decided on a '96 yet?

- M4H

I'm thinking something ugly and cheap to keep my girlfriend from wanting to drive it.

ZV

 

[randay]

cold air intakes are useless if you have a turbo car with an intercooler right?

 

[Ragnarok2]

Originally posted by: randay
cold air intakes are useless if you have a turbo car with an intercooler right?

Yes

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2

Originally posted by: randay
cold air intakes are useless if you have a turbo car with an intercooler right?

Yes

No.

The intercooler drops the incoming temperature by x degrees. If you reduce the intake temperature by y, it combines with the intercooler's temperature drop to give a total drop of x+y degrees.

Now, will that give a significant difference? No because on a high power engine the 3-5 hp that a CAI can add (best case) will be something like a 1-2% increase, which won't even be enough to feel.

So it's "useless" from a standpoint of getting meaningful performance increase (you'd be better served by simply getting more airflow to the intercooler) but it still provides the same benefit as it does with a naturally aspirated engine.

ZV

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Have you decided on a '96 yet?

- M4H

I'm thinking something ugly and cheap to keep my girlfriend from wanting to drive it.

ZV

How about a Five-point-Slow to get some symmetry?

- M4H

 

[randay]

Are cone filters generally less restrictive then (stock)box filters? If so, would the increased airflow improve throttle response or turbo spooling(lag) on a turbo car?

 

[Ragnarok2]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2

Originally posted by: randay
cold air intakes are useless if you have a turbo car with an intercooler right?

Yes

No.

The intercooler drops the incoming temperature by x degrees. If you reduce the intake temperature by y, it combines with the intercooler's temperature drop to give a total drop of x+y degrees.

Now, will that give a significant difference? No because on a high power engine the 3-5 hp that a CAI can add (best case) will be something like a 1-2% increase, which won't even be enough to feel.

So it's "useless" from a standpoint of getting meaningful performance increase (you'd be better served by simply getting more airflow to the intercooler) but it still provides the same benefit as it does with a naturally aspirated engine.

ZV

If you have an intercooler don't bother getting a CAI, the intercooler will do the job well enough. Adding a CAI will result in practically no improvement.

Zemmervolt, your formula looks good on paper, but the Y variable would be too little to even make a difference if the X variable is a hefty number.