-
We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.
Cold Air Intakes
Page 6 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
MercenaryForHire
Lifer
So you're saying you'd rather the former of the two options? 😕
- M4H
You're still not getting it. It does nothing. Think about this logically:
You can only gain in WOT acceleration. How often do you do that? Once, maybe twice a day? Unless it's WOT, you gain nothing, because you can always just open the throttle more.
And at WOT, you're already not too fast. And AT BEST, you will gain an imperceptible amount of HP. Just about every other time, you will be dealing with a loss in low end torque.
The only thing you will really gain is a louder engine, lower resale value, and open yourself up to hydrolock. If you're doing it for sound or to ruin your car quicker, then get a CAI, and put on the douche cap. Believe me, if you have something to gain, and nothing to lose, then I'd be all for it.
And don't get me started on oiled filters.
CAI's have their uses - this isn't one of them.
MercenaryForHire
Lifer
She looks pretty cheap to me.
😀
- M4H
Ilikepiedoyou
Senior member
I would say install one if you are looking for a decrease in daily perfomrance and a decrease in fuel economy
Aikouka
Lifer
I have those pictures that I mentioned earlier, M4H, if you're interested in seeing it 😛
The car itself:
http://www.aikouka.com/DSM/IMAG0016.JPG
Borked stuff:
http://www.aikouka.com/DSM/IMAG0027.JPG - Piston head.. somewhat
http://www.aikouka.com/DSM/IMAG0028.JPG - Piston head + half rod
http://www.aikouka.com/DSM/IMAG0029.JPG - Bent rod
http://www.aikouka.com/DSM/IMAG0030.JPG - One of the few good ones...
http://www.aikouka.com/DSM/IMAG0031.JPG - Bent valve
http://www.aikouka.com/DSM/IMAG0032.JPG - Holy hole
http://www.aikouka.com/DSM/IMAG0033.JPG - Holy hole 2
http://www.aikouka.com/DSM/IMAG0034.JPG - Look closely and you'll see what's wrong...
The car itself:
http://www.aikouka.com/DSM/IMAG0016.JPG
Borked stuff:
http://www.aikouka.com/DSM/IMAG0027.JPG - Piston head.. somewhat
http://www.aikouka.com/DSM/IMAG0028.JPG - Piston head + half rod
http://www.aikouka.com/DSM/IMAG0029.JPG - Bent rod
http://www.aikouka.com/DSM/IMAG0030.JPG - One of the few good ones...
http://www.aikouka.com/DSM/IMAG0031.JPG - Bent valve
http://www.aikouka.com/DSM/IMAG0032.JPG - Holy hole
http://www.aikouka.com/DSM/IMAG0033.JPG - Holy hole 2
http://www.aikouka.com/DSM/IMAG0034.JPG - Look closely and you'll see what's wrong...
DivideBYZero
Lifer
WTF? How do I get called the 'Village Idiot' for pointing out what a stupid idea this was first? All we have seen since is the same advice with technical backup, which I just could not be arsed to provide.
PS: BMW M made my bike... 😉
PS: BMW M made my bike... 😉
thescreensavers
Diamond Member
viods your warranty
Even the filter is a waste of money. Seriously.
The HP gain is even MORE negligible, and cleaning it is a royal pain in the ass. It will take YEARS for you to make up the difference in cost between using paper. If you have never cleaned an oil based filter before, it might sound like nothing, but your car will be undrivable for hours, and it's messy, and easy to screw up. Over oil the filter and you will foul up your MAF.
The only thing you should consider doing is changing your air filter more often, thats it. Want more throttle response? Tighten your throttle cable and attach lead to the soles of your shoes.
Is your car an auto or manual?
exdeath
Lifer
Depends on the car. On a normal passenger car there will probably be no difference.
On a high horsepower car it will make as much as a 30-40 HP difference at the wheels, especially on a blown car with a supercharger or turbo system under higher boost levels which force the engine to 'suck through a straw' on the factory intake.
Two ways an intake "makes" (or rather provides means for producing) more power.
First, it's less restrictive and higher flowing which makes a difference under heavy loads and high RPM only. If the engine air intake needs are not that drastic (non performance oriented engine with a over safe and conservative factory tune) and the original intake is sufficient at all RPMs, there will be no difference.
Second, colder air from outside the engine compartment is denser than the hot under hood air and allows more fuel. But more importantly colder air is less prone to detonation ('pinging') and allows for a more aggressive tune with more timing which creates more power. A true cold air system draws air from outside the engine bay. The ones you see with just a tube and a under hood filter are not CAIs and should not be labeled as such.
Here is mine:
http://jlttruecoldair.com/zencart/index...oduct_info&cPath=1_7_20&products_id=45
Some things you want in a CAI:
1) Draws air from outside the engine bay, from a sealed opening so that no under hood air can enter the filter
2) On mass airflow systems that use a MAF meter, you want as much straight tubing leading to the MAF as you can to get laminar air flow over the sensor. Bends directly in front of the sensor cause turbulence and lead to poor and inaccurate readings and make it impossible to tune properly. On speed-density systems that use a MAP and IAT sensor, it?s not a major concern other than bends cause frictional loss in the flow path.
3) Single piece design with smooth inside walls and constant diameter (ie: mandrel bent/molded). Ridges and mold lines on most factory tubes cause turbulence. Air that circulates in endless circles is not entering the engine and is occupying inlet space that useable air could be flowing through. It also heats up the air via friction. You do need some kind of flexible coupler in the system though, as the engine moves under hard acceleration and the inlet is fixed to the fender well. If the tube is a single piece of metal or plastic, you need some kind of rubber coupler that will flex or something will eventually stress and crack.
4) Ease of filter changing and location. Some of them may relocate filters to impossible locations, etc. Also the location of the filter in the fender well is prone to sucking up water in heavy rain or when driving through shallow water, which will pretty much destroy the engine. Water doesn't compress; the metal in the rods, main bolts, crank, and head bolts will yield first because the water will not compress under any circumstances. This is what is known as hydrolocking and would be the same thing as trying to run 10000 lbs of boost.
Some CAIs like the one I linked change the position of the MAF from the factory position relative to the filter and the throttle body requiring computer and/or MAF sensor recalibration (i.e.: you'll need a new tune to compensate). MAF sensors are so precise which makes them sensitive to changes and very tricky to work with and require custom computer tuning for optimal performance and mileage.
As for filters, larger filters conical filters with surface area on both sides provide more surface area and require less work for the engine to pull air through. But again, if you can hold the throttle open and you don't see or feel the intake tube or filter wanting to collapse or move at all under the vaccuum in that condition, it's probably not going to make much of a difference.
All in all the intake itself doesn't make power, it's just a small piece of a much larger system, which on a engine with other modifications like blower, turbo, large cams, free flowing exhaust, etc. can quickly become a restriction.
On a high horsepower car it will make as much as a 30-40 HP difference at the wheels, especially on a blown car with a supercharger or turbo system under higher boost levels which force the engine to 'suck through a straw' on the factory intake.
Two ways an intake "makes" (or rather provides means for producing) more power.
First, it's less restrictive and higher flowing which makes a difference under heavy loads and high RPM only. If the engine air intake needs are not that drastic (non performance oriented engine with a over safe and conservative factory tune) and the original intake is sufficient at all RPMs, there will be no difference.
Second, colder air from outside the engine compartment is denser than the hot under hood air and allows more fuel. But more importantly colder air is less prone to detonation ('pinging') and allows for a more aggressive tune with more timing which creates more power. A true cold air system draws air from outside the engine bay. The ones you see with just a tube and a under hood filter are not CAIs and should not be labeled as such.
Here is mine:
http://jlttruecoldair.com/zencart/index...oduct_info&cPath=1_7_20&products_id=45
Some things you want in a CAI:
1) Draws air from outside the engine bay, from a sealed opening so that no under hood air can enter the filter
2) On mass airflow systems that use a MAF meter, you want as much straight tubing leading to the MAF as you can to get laminar air flow over the sensor. Bends directly in front of the sensor cause turbulence and lead to poor and inaccurate readings and make it impossible to tune properly. On speed-density systems that use a MAP and IAT sensor, it?s not a major concern other than bends cause frictional loss in the flow path.
3) Single piece design with smooth inside walls and constant diameter (ie: mandrel bent/molded). Ridges and mold lines on most factory tubes cause turbulence. Air that circulates in endless circles is not entering the engine and is occupying inlet space that useable air could be flowing through. It also heats up the air via friction. You do need some kind of flexible coupler in the system though, as the engine moves under hard acceleration and the inlet is fixed to the fender well. If the tube is a single piece of metal or plastic, you need some kind of rubber coupler that will flex or something will eventually stress and crack.
4) Ease of filter changing and location. Some of them may relocate filters to impossible locations, etc. Also the location of the filter in the fender well is prone to sucking up water in heavy rain or when driving through shallow water, which will pretty much destroy the engine. Water doesn't compress; the metal in the rods, main bolts, crank, and head bolts will yield first because the water will not compress under any circumstances. This is what is known as hydrolocking and would be the same thing as trying to run 10000 lbs of boost.
Some CAIs like the one I linked change the position of the MAF from the factory position relative to the filter and the throttle body requiring computer and/or MAF sensor recalibration (i.e.: you'll need a new tune to compensate). MAF sensors are so precise which makes them sensitive to changes and very tricky to work with and require custom computer tuning for optimal performance and mileage.
As for filters, larger filters conical filters with surface area on both sides provide more surface area and require less work for the engine to pull air through. But again, if you can hold the throttle open and you don't see or feel the intake tube or filter wanting to collapse or move at all under the vaccuum in that condition, it's probably not going to make much of a difference.
All in all the intake itself doesn't make power, it's just a small piece of a much larger system, which on a engine with other modifications like blower, turbo, large cams, free flowing exhaust, etc. can quickly become a restriction.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 24K
-
-
