CNN Has more sympathy for the rapists.

[skyking]

These big guys totally controlled her, drug her around like a rag doll, fingered her and took pictures and texted them back and forth with all sorts of lewd comments, drug her back into a back room and ejaculated on her.
Then they threatened her via texts, and distributed the pictures around the school via text, videos as well.
Then they got on the stand and lied about all that when it was so easily proven.
So how exactly do you sympathize with them?

 

[Geosurface]

These big guys totally controlled her, drug her around like a rag doll, fingered her and took pictures and texted them back and forth with all sorts of lewd comments, drug her back into a back room and ejaculated on her.
Then they threatened her via texts, and distributed the pictures around the school via text, videos as well.
Then they got on the stand and lied about all that when it was so easily proven.
So how exactly do you sympathize with them?

Well first off I only found out about this case like, yesterday, so all the details of their vile acts during and after the fact are still somewhat new to me.

They sound like real pieces of shit, honestly. And I thought that from the outset. I'll say that again, real pieces of shit.

I don't have a real high opinion of most of humanity though, so...

I sympathize with them in an abstract sense for the same reason and in the same way I sympathize with a 22 year old guy who drives drunk and ends up killing a mini-van with a family in it, and then the rest of his life is utterly ruined as a result.

I don't see any contradiction in viewing that 22 year old drunk driver as a piece of shit, who caused a horrible tragedy... and did something inexcusable that is entirely alien to any behaviors I've ever done... and having sympathy for his lost future.

It is absolutely tragic when someone's future is gone because of stupid choices made while intoxicated...

The thing with the drunk driver who killed people, though, is that I think it's quite clear that tragic loss of his future is necessary to happen. People died. A family lost their lives. There needs to be accountability for that.

In this case? It's not clear to me that society's interests are greatly served by what is happening to these pieces of shit... or that punishing them in any significant way is truly NECESSARY in the same way as the drunk driver.

I would feel differently if they'd engaged in actual sex with her (had actually raped her, which, let's be honest, they simply didn't) - I'd be much more harsh toward them.

But to me, this sounds not that dissimilar from shit they might've done to one of their male friends... fuck with him while he's passed out, do gross things to him, etc.

It's not right, it's not good, they're pieces of shit for doing it... and they should be punished in some way, but at the same time I think our wussified society is making it out to be some sort of atomic explosion of horror when it just isn't at that level, IMO.

 

[glenn1]

Yes, let's mourn for the rapists. What a shame.

Silly white boys. They should have known better that sympathy is only reserved for black cop killers, not suburban teenagers.

 

[skyking]

you're not familiar with the story either. One of the rapists is black.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

It has to do with whether or not justice was done. If the same thing done to a boy would be laughed off how can we say ruining the lives of 2 boys for doing it to a girl is justice?



Of course judging my most of the responses here they can't imagine a boy doing it either.



I think calling inappropriate touching rape is raping the definition of rape.

The intent is to make an emotional appeal. Imagine if instead of headlines calling the boys rapists they were call inappropriate touchers. It just does not have the same ring to it does it?

Give it up, no matter how you try to spin it the boys were wrong and are now being held responsible for their actions.

 

[Geosurface]

the boys were wrong and are now being held responsible for their actions.

Correct.

Is the fashion in which they are being held responsible in proportion with those actions? That's the question.

And, the other question is, does our society have unfair double standards about how it views similar crimes committed depending on the offender's gender? Is our society going too far with demonizing male sexuality?

Btw I am not saying what these pieces of shit did is an appropriate expression of male sexuality. Just in case anyone is dumb enough to read what I just wrote in that way.

 

[glenn1]

you're not familiar with the story either. One of the rapists is black.

Who gives a shit? This entire exercise is about demonizing rapists and dehumanizing them so they cannot be mentioned as having any redeeming features whatsoever. It's of a piece with the efforts to "tell rapists not to rape" and other such bullshit.

 

[TerryMathews]

Well first off I only found out about this case like, yesterday, so all the details of their vile acts during and after the fact are still somewhat new to me.

They sound like real pieces of shit, honestly. And I thought that from the outset. I'll say that again, real pieces of shit.

I don't have a real high opinion of most of humanity though, so...

I sympathize with them in an abstract sense for the same reason and in the same way I sympathize with a 22 year old guy who drives drunk and ends up killing a mini-van with a family in it, and then the rest of his life is utterly ruined as a result.

I don't see any contradiction in viewing that 22 year old drunk driver as a piece of shit, who caused a horrible tragedy... and did something inexcusable that is entirely alien to any behaviors I've ever done... and having sympathy for his lost future.

It is absolutely tragic when someone's future is gone because of stupid choices made while intoxicated...

The thing with the drunk driver who killed people, though, is that I think it's quite clear that tragic loss of his future is necessary to happen. People died. A family lost their lives. There needs to be accountability for that.

In this case? It's not clear to me that society's interests are greatly served by what is happening to these pieces of shit... or that punishing them in any significant way is truly NECESSARY in the same way as the drunk driver.

I would feel differently if they'd engaged in actual sex with her (had actually raped her, which, let's be honest, they simply didn't) - I'd be much more harsh toward them.

But to me, this sounds not that dissimilar from shit they might've done to one of their male friends... fuck with him while he's passed out, do gross things to him, etc.

It's not right, it's not good, they're pieces of shit for doing it... and they should be punished in some way, but at the same time I think our wussified society is making it out to be some sort of atomic explosion of horror when it just isn't at that level, IMO.

Geo, the bottom line is you're wrong on this one.

And I do agree with the idea that women manipulating the sex organs of a drunk man should be treated exactly the same - under the equal protection clause of the Constitution.

 

[skyking]

Who gives a shit? This entire exercise is about demonizing rapists and dehumanizing them so they cannot be mentioned as having any redeeming features whatsoever. It's of a piece with the efforts to "tell rapists not to rape" and other such bullshit.

You brought up sympathy for a black cop killer. That's on you.
You mean this thread?
I'm certainly not saying these guys can't reform themselves, but they were caught hands down with tons of evidence and convicted. They have no defense for this crime.

 

[nehalem256]

And I do agree with the idea that women manipulating the sex organs of a drunk man should be treated exactly the same - under the equal protection clause of the Constitution.

And would you call that woman a rapist?

And more important do you think anyone else would?

 

[ch33zw1z]

And? Are you under the impression I'm religious? I'm a life-long, die-hard militant atheist.



Okay, so if "rape is rape" and suddenly Rumpelstiltskin or Mr. Myxlplyx or the Devil or Q from Star Trek or whoever you prefer to envision appears before you and you have to choose between getting your a-hole fingered while you're passed out drunk, or having a train run on you by 12 large prison inmates... I take it you'd be cool with a coin flip?

I'm being deliberately absurd of course, but the point remains: You can't honestly tell me with a straight face that "rape is rape" if the implication of that phrase is that all rapes are equally bad.

I refuse to believe that you believe that.

I never said I believe that. They're not serving hard time, tried as adults, or definitely being labeled sex offenders. I thought you guys were reading the news on this? From what I've read, their behavior while in juvenile detention will dictate the course ahead of them. They still have a chance at a regular adult life. I'd say they're getting off pretty easy considering their behavior. Sure, it may not be the football star they envisioned and had a small chance at, but maybe they won't treat people like this again either.

What they did is rape, defined by law. That will not change not matter what hypothetical you present. That is what is meant when I say "rape is rape".

note: I never thought you were religious, your example made me laugh, that's all.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Correct.

Is the fashion in which they are being held responsible in proportion with those actions? That's the question.

And, the other question is, does our society have unfair double standards about how it views similar crimes committed depending on the offender's gender? Is our society going too far with demonizing male sexuality?

Btw I am not saying what these pieces of shit did is an appropriate expression of male sexuality. Just in case anyone is dumb enough to read what I just wrote in that way.

They were convicted in a court of law by a jury.

You were in the military and you should remember this requirement.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](c) Penetration, however slight, is sufficient to complete either of these offenses.[/FONT]

 

[ch33zw1z]

I don't think effectively ruining a person's life, by making them a registered sex offender, fits the crime of fingering a drunk girl.

Right, they just "fingered a drunk girl".

 

[skyking]

They were convicted in a court of law by a jury.

You were in the military and you should remember this requirement.

Just a point in fact Jowo, but it was juvenile court and no jury, only a judge.

 

[Geosurface]

You were in the military and you should remember this requirement.

Laws, and UCMJ articles can be stupid and wrong.

If I managed to get a law passed in my state which said that punching someone was considered murder, would that make it murder? No, it still wouldn't be murder as per the definition of the word, and as per all common sense.

 

[Texashiker]

Right, they just "fingered a drunk girl".

And? Will that affect her ability to earn a living, affect her ability to get a job, pass a background check,,, or anything else that makes life possible?

Its not like she was beat, raped by the true definition of the word, got knocked up or contracted HIV.

 

[TerryMathews]

And would you call that woman a rapist?

And more important do you think anyone else would?

Why should women have greater protection?

 

[ch33zw1z]

And? Will that affect her ability to earn a living, affect her ability to get a job, pass a background check,,, or anything else that makes life possible?

Its not like she was beat, raped by the true definition of the word, got knocked up or contracted HIV.

Only time will tell.

Right, walk it off honey....you'll be fine.

 

[nehalem256]

Why should women have greater protection?

I never said they should.

I said that in the current society they do.

Imagine if a 16 year old boy said he was raped because some girls had touched his penis while he was drunk.

Would anyone take him seriously? Or would they tell him maybe he shouldn't drink so much?

 

[nehalem256]

Only time will tell.

Right, walk it off honey....you'll be fine.

Honestly I think the girl was probably damaged more by the trial and media circus than by being fingered. I mean she doesn't even remember that.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

And? Will that affect her ability to earn a living, affect her ability to get a job, pass a background check,,, or anything else that makes life possible?

Its not like she was beat, raped by the true definition of the word, got knocked up or contracted HIV.

What occurred meets the definition/requirements of rape per Ohio's laws.

They would have been convicted in Texas as well.

http://www.mytexasdefenselawyer.com/texas-criminal-laws-penalties/sex-offenses/

Sexual Assault

This is the crime we commonly think of when we think of a “rape”. It can occur between two people in a relationship or two strangers. The offense doesn’t always include intercourse and can be charged even when “sexual contact” has been made.

 

[skyking]

Honestly I think the girl was probably damaged more by the trial and media circus than by being fingered. I mean she doesn't even remember that.

What about all the threats and humiliation by these idiots at school, before she pressed charges? These guys started out with no character at a drunk party, but sure as hell did not find any character after they sobered up.

 

[Matt1970]

And? Will that affect her ability to earn a living, affect her ability to get a job, pass a background check,,, or anything else that makes life possible?

Its not like she was beat, raped by the true definition of the word, got knocked up or contracted HIV.

And once again, you have one fucked up way of looking at things. It doesn't matter what part of their body they put inside that girl.

 

[Texashiker]

What occurred meets the definition/requirements of rape per Ohio's laws.

They would have been convicted in Texas as well.

Just because something is legal/illegal, does not make it right/wrong.

In other words, if the boys would have beat the girl, had real sex with her, knocked her up, gave her some kind of disease,, they would be facing the same charges they were convicted of?

And society is ok with that?

They touched her gentiles; its not like the killed her, raped her, dismembered her, then dropped her body parts into a river.

In the grand scheme of things, what the boys did was not "that" bad. Yes they were wrong, but there have been much worse things that have happened to young girls.

The girl is alive, she may be traumatized, but she is alive.

And once again, you have one fucked up way of looking at things. It doesn't matter what part of their body they put inside that girl.

I am trying to look at the situation in multiple ways.

What the boys did was wrong, but should we be so quick to pass judgement?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Just because something is legal/illegal, does not make it right/wrong.

In other words, if the boys would have beat the girl, had real sex with her, knocked her up, gave her some kind of disease,, they would be facing the same charges they were convicted of?

And society is ok with that?

They touched her gentiles; its not like the killed her, raped her, dismembered her, then dropped her body parts into a river.

In the grand scheme of things, what the boys did was not "that" bad. Yes they were wrong, but there have been much worse things that have happened to young girls.

The girl is alive, she may be traumatized, but she is alive.

So you're all good should someone violate your wife or daughter without their consent.