"Cleopatra should be played by a Black Woman"

[MJinZ]

Halle Berry is white.*

*i still hate how being 50% anything not white makes you not white.

She looks brownish to me.

 

[squirrel dog]

Black people are so last week ! Lets go with something else !!

 

[waggy]

Black people are so last week ! Lets go with something else !!

Chinese women should do it!

 

[Amused]

:\

Now that pic on the left is a load of shit and "afrocentric" wishful thinking.

Gee, let's look at a bust from 40BC, shall we?

The woman was Greek. Not a single sub-Saharan feature. Not one.

 

[angminas]

Listen very closely:

Cleopatra was NOT black in any way, shape or form. She was Greek and Semitic.

Egyptians were NOT black, they were Semitic. They had, within their culture, a MINORITY of sub Saharan blacks during the later dynasties, but the main populace was light skinned.

Royalty was NEVER "tanned." It was considered low brow and only the workers were tanned. Royalty and later, upper classes throughout the ages did everything they could to stay out of the sun. It's not a debate at all: The royal families, ESPECIALLY the Greek Ptolemies, would have had pale complexions.

Portraying Cleopatra as black would be like casting Rasa Parks or Mohammad Ali with a white person. "Better fit" my ass. Essence calling for a black woman to play Cleopatra is akin to a whites only mag calling for a white man to play Ali. Both are racist, period.

The argument in Essence is just plain ignorant and you supporting it only shows your racism.

You're perfectly right, up until you start talking about racism. Ignorance and racism often go hand in hand, but not always, and they're not the same thing. Hastily lumping things together for the sake of convenience or pride is actually one of the foundations of racism. Racism is not found in words or actions; it's found in the intentions behind the words or actions.

Don't be so quick to sling the R-word around. It's a powerful word, and it should be used responsibly.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Kleopatra-VII.-Altes-Museum-Berlin1.jpg/452px-Kleopatra-VII.-Altes-Museum-Berlin1.jpg

The woman was Greek. Not a single sub-Saharan feature. Not one.

Her hair seems a bit nappy-headed. :hmm:

 

[classy]

Listen very closely:

Cleopatra was NOT black in any way, shape or form. She was Greek and Semitic.

Egyptians were NOT black, they were Semitic. They had, within their culture, a MINORITY of sub Saharan blacks during the later dynasties, but the main populace was light skinned.

Royalty was NEVER "tanned." It was considered low brow and only the workers were tanned. Royalty and later, upper classes throughout the ages did everything they could to stay out of the sun. It's not a debate at all: The royal families, ESPECIALLY the Greek Ptolemies, would have had pale complexions.

Portraying Cleopatra as black would be like casting Rasa Parks or Mohammad Ali with a white person. "Better fit" my ass. Essence calling for a black woman to play Cleopatra is akin to a whites only mag calling for a white man to play Ali. Both are racist, period.

The argument in Essence is just plain ignorant and you supporting it only shows your racism.

Listen very closely:

I have seen you post for over a decade and you have always been and always will be anti-african american. There is nothing in your nature that appears to be worth a damn, especially your opinion of anything that has to with a person or persons who are black.

 

[SKORPI0]

Looks like they've already made a movie in the 70's.

 

[Perknose]

Calm down, OP. I love how you and other primitive right-wing simpletons like Amused never fail to get bent out of shape at poor people and black people over the littlest things, like some blacks claiming Cleopatra was black.

Have you ever been in Egypt? I have.

It's the second most populous AFRICAN nation!

And, there are plenty of people in Egypt who have the thick lips and broad nose that many of us associate with dem negroes, while their skin is deep olive -- not "boogey man black" but not anywhere near "caucasian white", either.

I know, I've been there, I've seen and interacted with them.

Think Ryan Howard with a skin peel or whatever.

(Ryan's the one on the left.)

So, was Cleopatra black?

Despite what you, Amused, Shakespeare, Ebony or anyone else thinks, no one really knows with any absolute certainty how black or not Cleopatra was.

Here's one non-hysterical stab at trying, though:

Here's where the scholars seem to agree: Cleopatra was the last in a line of Ptolemies--Macedonian Greeks--who ruled Egypt from the death of Alexander the Great in 305 B.C. until Antony's defeat in the battle of Actium in 31 B.C. The Ptolemies, as was the custom, were an incestuous, intermarrying breed (they were concerned about preserving the royal bloodline). But they took their pleasure with the courtiers and concubines who filled their palaces. Many of the children born of these assignations were bestowed a place in the royal lineage despite their dubious--and unspoken--parentage.

Many believe that Cleopatra's father was the product of such a union--his mother may have been a concubine from Nubia or Alexandria. Lending credence to this theory is the fact that Cleopatra's bond to the people of Egypt seemed greater than those of her Ptolemic ancestors, who aligned themselves culturally and linguistically with Greece. "Far more than her predecessors, [Cleopatra] made an effort to learn Egyptian and was very savvy about presenting herself as Egyptian to the people that she ruled," says Molly Levine, a professor of Egyptology in the classics department at Howard University.

So it seems that Cleopatra may have had a true Egyptian (as opposed to Macedonian-Greek) grandmother. Does that make her "Black?" It is a question the organizers of the Field Museum's exhibit wanted to tackle head-on.

"It is a question that is nearly impossible to answer," says Ben Bronson, the museum's [Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago] curator of Asian archeology and ethnology. "What we've tried to do is narrow down the range of possibilities for her ancestry. And when you do that, you see that there is a perfectly good chance that Cleopatra was an African Egyptian. Was she 100 percent African, meaning was her skin dark? Probably not. The Romans, who wrote extensively about her, probably would have noted that. But it is quite possible--given the comings and goings of people in the Ptolemic court--that she was a mixed-race Egyptian."

You guys with your primtive, simplistic, essentially ignorant black and white (pun intended) answers expose yourselves as being just as retarded as the people you so eagerly wish to mock.

Listen very closely:
Cleopatra was NOT black in any way, shape or form.

 

[Amused]

Perk, learn some history before spouting off like an ignorant twit, okay?

The people of Egypt today are NOT of the same blood as those of 5000-2000 years ago. That blood was virtually wiped out in the Arab Islamic expansion and post Roman Provence period. That you would compare modern day Egyptians (a mix of mainly of Arab, Nubian and Persian) with ancient Egyptians only shows your abject ignorance of history.

While SOME may have to REACH to make her black by claiming a grandparent was a Nubian, the bust I posted a picture of (made of her DURING HER LIFETIME) speaks for itself. She was clearly Greek with Greek features and the MAJORITY of Egyptians throughout antiquity were Semitic with white features and olive skin. So even though the Ptolemies regularly had concubines, Chances are those concubines were Semitic.

Now, if the truth makes me a "right winger" so be it. (Actually, I'm about as far from right wing as one can get) Sorry... but re-writing history is intolerable to me. Though it seems to be the norm for people like you.

There are plenty of things for blacks to be proud of. But claiming Egyptian culture and history as one of their own is just plain ignorance.

 

[Perknose]

Now, if the truth makes me a "right winger" so be it. (Actually, I'm about as far from right wing as one can get) Sorry... but re-writing history is intolerable to me. Though it seems to be the norm for people like you.

Excuse me? Show us all ONE LINK where I have "re-written history", you red-faced blowhard.

Let's try to stick to the facts:

That bust is merely thought to be of Cleopatra, that's all:

http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/leadersaf/ss/CleopatraPix_9.htm

This photo shows a bust of a woman thought to be Cleopatra that is in the Altes Museum in Berlin, Germany.

Ben Bronson, the long time Curator of Asian Archaeology and Ehnology at the Field Museum of Natural History and now it's Director, whom I already quoted, has his strong doubts, but YOU, the angry, ideologically driven simpleton, YOU KNOW BETTER.

"It is a question that is nearly impossible to answer," says Ben Bronson, the museum's [Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago] curator of Asian archeology and ethnology. "What we've tried to do is narrow down the range of possibilities for her ancestry. And when you do that, you see that there is a perfectly good chance that Cleopatra was an African Egyptian. Was she 100 percent African, meaning was her skin dark? Probably not. The Romans, who wrote extensively about her, probably would have noted that. But it is quite possible--given the comings and goings of people in the Ptolemic court--that she was a mixed-race Egyptian."

Here, scroll down and you can listen to this scholar on The Utility and Persistence of Paper.

Or do you think you ALSO know more about that than he does as well?

 

[shortylickens]

People really care about this shit?

Oh hi!
You must be new here. Welcome to America.

 

[Amused]

Excuse me? Show us all ONE LINK where I have "re-written history", you red-faced blowhard.

Let's try to stick to the facts:

That bust is merely thought to be of Cleopatra, that's all:

http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/leadersaf/ss/CleopatraPix_9.htm

Ben Bronson, the long time Curator of Asian Archaeology and Ehnology at the Field Museum of Natural History and now it's Director, whom I already quoted, has his strong doubts, but YOU, the angry, ideologically driven simpleton, YOU KNOW BETTER.

Here, scroll down and you can listen to this scholar on The Utility and Persistence of Paper.

Or do you think you ALSO know more about that than he does as well?

No, I think you're confused. North Africans of the time were SEMETIC. That means olive skinned with mainly white features. When he says "African" he does not mean black.

This is a drawing of a fresco on the tomb of Seti I:

From left to right: Libyan, Nubian, Asiatic, Egyptians.

Ancient Egyptians were NOT black, Perk. They were Semetic: Olive skinned with white features. That you continue to argue this is just silly.

Cleopatra was Greek and Semetic. The evidence is overwhelming. Only an afrocentric history revisionist would try to paint her as black.

 

[HeXen]

so everyone is supposed to be highly educated about world history to watch a dam movie about Cleopatra? Wrongful portrayal is everywhere you look. You must be new here, welcome to America

 

[KeithTalent]

I'd rather they just make Spiderman black.

KT

 

[Amused]

Listen very closely:

I have seen you post for over a decade and you have always been and always will be anti-african american. There is nothing in your nature that appears to be worth a damn, especially your opinion of anything that has to with a person or persons who are black.

I challenge you to post here a link to ANY post I have made that is "anti-African American."

And since Cleopatra was anything BUT black, your point is moot.

Sorry, Classy, but just because I'm not an apologist for bad behavior and self destructive cultures does NOT make me racist. I judge actions, not the color of one's skin.

I will just as readily criticize white trash as I will "gangsta" culture. I will just as readily denounce the KKK as I will afro-centric culture and rewriting of history.

 

[DangerAardvark]

I can't believe people are trying to recruit dead historical figures into their pathetic tribes of black and white. It's Chapelle Show's racial draft sketch come to life. It's just a matter of time before Asians claim the Wu-Tang clan.

 

[MJinZ]

I can't believe people are trying to recruit dead historical figures into their pathetic tribes of black and white. It's Chapelle Show's racial draft sketch come to life. It's just a matter of time before Asians claim the Wu-Tang clan.

I don't think Asians need to claim a black rap group based on a Kungfu movie named after a mountain range and province that is still called Wu Tang.

 

[MJinZ]

I challenge you to post here a link to ANY post I have made that is "anti-African American."

And since Cleopatra was anything BUT black, your point is moot.

Sorry, Classy, but just because I'm not an apologist for bad behavior and self destructive cultures does NOT make me racist. I judge actions, not the color of one's skin.

I will just as readily criticize white trash as I will "gangsta" culture. I will just as readily denounce the KKK as I will afro-centric culture and rewriting of history.

I disagree. Clearly you are a racist or you would not care about Cleopatra being black or white.

 

[shortylickens]

I disagree. Clearly you are a racist or you would not care about Cleopatra being black or white.

That is one of the dumbest dozen things I have ever heard on ATOT.
But its also the norm in P&N. Funny how that works.

 

[Amused]

I disagree. Clearly you are a racist or you would not care about Cleopatra being black or white.

Would I be a racist if I were opposed to Martin Luther King or any other great leader who happened to be black being portrayed by a white person?

No.

I oppose history revisionism. And if you read all my posts in this thread, you'd see that.

 

[txrandom]

Wait, so the African in African Egyptian means black?

 

[Amused]

Wait, so the African in African Egyptian means black?

Perk thinks it does. LOL

 

[ScottSwing]

I'd rather they just make Spiderman black.

KT

They made Kojak black.

 

[ScottSwing]

I know several Egyptians and they look much more black than white.