Citing no evidence, Trump claims illegals cost him pop vote

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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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I would agree with this for the most part. I think his goal is to simply sow enough doubt in people's minds that they give up on trying to figure out what's true and what isn't. Then he can basically craft his own narrative with impunity.

Post-truth, Baby!
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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Sean Spicer just said that Trump believes there was massive voter fraud based on "evidence" and "studies" that he has. He declined to specify what "evidence" the president has to back that up.

The evidence is that the faithful believed in it before he said it. I'm sure he's studied that sort of thing.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,027
2,595
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Sean Spicer just said that Trump believes there was massive voter fraud based on "evidence" and "studies" that he has. He declined to specify what "evidence" the president has to back that up.
It really boggles the mind. Its one thing if they are forcibly lying about stuff that is actually happening. Its sad that they are lying about stuff no one is talking about.

Honestly I think its all supposed to be a big distraction game. "hey look at the sparkly thing over here on the right whilst I screw your mom on the left side of the screen". There really is no other plausible explanation. And Sean Spicer... how can he go home and look his children in the face? I just don't understand.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,504
7,731
136
So..Trump has again repeated the allegation that millions of illegal alien votes cost him the popular vote.

If our elections include many millions of illegal votes, that's a serious problem. Nobody should stand for having anywhere from 2 percent to, who knows, 10 percent of the votes in a presidential election being illegally cast. That goes to the core of the integrity of our elections.

So why hasn't President Trump called for a massive FBI investigation to get to the bottom of this? We need to get to the bottom of where these illegal vote's came from, if these votes are at risk of being transferred to terrorists, if these votes are being delivered by drones flying over our major cities, and so on. We have to connect the dots before a smoking ballot becomes a mushroom cloud.

So why is President Trump just doing nothing about this threat, except tweeting? The time for politician talk is over, the time for action is now.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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It really boggles the mind. Its one thing if they are forcibly lying about stuff that is actually happening. Its sad that they are lying about stuff no one is talking about.

Honestly I think its all supposed to be a big distraction game. "hey look at the sparkly thing over here on the right whilst I screw your mom on the left side of the screen". There really is no other plausible explanation. And Sean Spicer... how can he go home and look his children in the face? I just don't understand.

They're creating a back drop for more "strict voter ID" laws to suppress imaginary voter fraud. It's a gift to NC Repubs & others like them.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,527
10,408
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Recently, California decided to allow illegals driver's licenses. Frankly, I'd rather have them licensed and insured, so I'm fine with that. Following that, the DMV began offering the option to register to vote, at the time you get your driver's license. This is one that raised some suspicions, because there was speculation that nobody was concerned with catching who was legal and who was illegal, when it came to registering. I'm not even going to pretend to know whether there are systems in place to catch this, or not. I'd rather believe there are systems.

I remember reading some opinion pieces, where some felt checking and enforcing would require exorbitant time and resources, so would be very difficult to catch those who registered illegally. However, an illegal's license is designated "AB-60", which is only considered valid ID for driving, nothing else. Yet, suspicions run high, but without any factual data to back them up.

So, yeah, Trump suspects, but he may be right, or he may be wrong. Other states have more lax voter registrations rules. Is it possible that some illegals voted? Probably some have, but how is it quantified?

Finally, whether or not it happened, I don't see what difference it makes to him. He won the presidency.
I guess, maybe, his ego won't let that rest, because he's all about winning.
It's controlled by requiring birth certificates. When I applied for a drivers license in about 2000, what I thought was my legal birth certificate (hospital birth record) was not. I had to get a new one from the city I was born in before I could get my California Drivers license.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,264
48,470
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Recently, California decided to allow illegals driver's licenses. Frankly, I'd rather have them licensed and insured, so I'm fine with that. Following that, the DMV began offering the option to register to vote, at the time you get your driver's license. This is one that raised some suspicions, because there was speculation that nobody was concerned with catching who was legal and who was illegal, when it came to registering. I'm not even going to pretend to know whether there are systems in place to catch this, or not. I'd rather believe there are systems.

I remember reading some opinion pieces, where some felt checking and enforcing would require exorbitant time and resources, so would be very difficult to catch those who registered illegally. However, an illegal's license is designated "AB-60", which is only considered valid ID for driving, nothing else. Yet, suspicions run high, but without any factual data to back them up.

So, yeah, Trump suspects, but he may be right, or he may be wrong. Other states have more lax voter registrations rules. Is it possible that some illegals voted? Probably some have, but how is it quantified?

Finally, whether or not it happened, I don't see what difference it makes to him. He won the presidency.
I guess, maybe, his ego won't let that rest, because he's all about winning.


The procedures in place to prevent people with AB-60 licenses from registering to vote is an automated process that is far less error prone than the manual one that preceded it. It's a process that makes it less likely for an illegal immigrant to successfully register, not more.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,504
7,731
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If Trump truly believes that there were millions of votes cast illegally, then he should admit that the outcome is illegitimate and he should step down until a thorough investigation sorts this all out.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,264
48,470
136
So..Trump has again repeated the allegation that millions of illegal alien votes cost him the popular vote.

If our elections include many millions of illegal votes, that's a serious problem. Nobody should stand for having anywhere from 2 percent to, who knows, 10 percent of the votes in a presidential election being illegally cast. That goes to the core of the integrity of our elections.

So why hasn't President Trump called for a massive FBI investigation to get to the bottom of this? We need to get to the bottom of where these illegal vote's came from, if these votes are at risk of being transferred to terrorists, if these votes are being delivered by drones flying over our major cities, and so on. We have to connect the dots before a smoking ballot becomes a mushroom cloud.

So why is President Trump just doing nothing about this threat, except tweeting? The time for politician talk is over, the time for action is now.

Way more importantly, if millions of cases of voter fraud happened in an election that was decided by 107,000 votes between several swing states it's fairly likely he didn't win at all. There's no particular reason to believe those imaginary fraudulent votes would be for Clinton, they could very well have been for him. It sounds like if we take Trump at his word then any presidential actions he takes should be put on hold so that an independent investigation can take place. We could very well have a president who won the election due to massive fraud!

I thought he had a 'very good brain' because his uncle taught at MIT or something. Sure doesn't seem like it.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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I'm still waiting for you to provide exact quotes. Then we can delve into this. Whenever you're ready.
Specifically, which one(s) of the numerous Obama statements I cited were not shown to be "demonstrably and provably false". Whenever you're ready.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
Something just came to me, if Trump is right and he claimed as many as five million on the high side is true, he may not have won the election. Lots of illegals in Florida, Texas,Arizona, etc.

That, or it's a dog whistle to the governors to enact more voter ID laws.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
66
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If Trump truly believes that there were millions of votes cast illegally, then he should admit that the outcome is illegitimate and he should step down until a thorough investigation sorts this all out.

As one of the reporters at today's press conference said, this allegation, if true, would be the greatest scandal in the history of the American electoral system. The idea that the President would throw around this kind of claim without a scintilla of evidence to support it (and despite the broad consensus of everyone who has seriously looked into the issue that it isn't true) is really remarkable. The fact that he's doing it solely due to the brittleness of his ego is scary. This is what we get for electing a floridly mentally ill man President. May God help us all.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,264
48,470
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Specifically, which one(s) of the numerous Obama statements I cited were not shown to be demonstrably and provably false. Whenever you're ready.

I made a very simple request which was for you to provide the exact words of the statements you were claiming to be false so that we could operate from a shared understanding of what was said instead of your attempts to dishonestly spin things like you usually do. This is not a difficult or unreasonable request and it says a lot that you're desperately trying to avoid doing it.

Once you provide the quotes we'll go back to what I originally said and see how they measure up! It will be a fun journey of discovery for us both.
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,534
5,051
136
Interesting comments from Ryan and Graham:

Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) told reporters at the Capitol on Tuesday that he's seen "no evidence" of voter fraud.

And Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), who was critical of Trump during the campaign, urged the president to stop making the claims.

"... I am begging the president, share with us the information you have about this or please stop saying it," Graham said.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...illions-voted-illegally/ar-AAmbCOL?li=BBnb7Kz


I find Graham's comment funny, considering getting Trump to quit lying is like trying to get a dog to quit eating turds. Isn't gonna happen.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Specifically, which one(s) of the numerous Obama statements I cited were not shown to be "demonstrably and provably false". Whenever you're ready.

When you have to resort to "They're just as Bad!" it means you already lost the argument.

Trump attacks the validity of our electoral system even after he won & attacks the integrity of thousands of people all across the country who've worked diligently & honestly to assure its integrity.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,504
7,731
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Way more importantly, if millions of cases of voter fraud happened in an election that was decided by 107,000 votes between several swing states it's fairly likely he didn't win at all. There's no particular reason to believe those imaginary fraudulent votes would be for Clinton, they could very well have been for him. It sounds like if we take Trump at his word then any presidential actions he takes should be put on hold so that an independent investigation can take place. We could very well have a president who won the election due to massive fraud!

I thought he had a 'very good brain' because his uncle taught at MIT or something. Sure doesn't seem like it.

Lol...So, what have we got, here? A roving caravan of buses stuffed with conspirators, driving from location to location? With mobile forgery labs? How many different polling places could they broach on any given day?

Even if the time spent voting was ten minutes from arrival to departure, you still have drive the buses to the next place. Oh, and not be noticed. There are any number of places where a busload of brown people arriving at the polling place would draw attention. Even suspicion! And three busloads? Five? Fifty?

If any political group had the money, the power and the skills to put together and execute such a conspiracy, we shouldn't bother to think in terms of thwarting it, we should simply begin negotiations towards our surrender. We need investigations NOW Mr. Trump!
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,265
126
There's no particular reason to believe those imaginary fraudulent votes would be for Clinton, they could very well have been for him.

I think that Martians voting for him first is more likely than illegals. Of course we don't know... They may be among us! EEEK!
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,264
48,470
136
As one of the reporters at today's press conference said, this allegation, if true, would be the greatest scandal in the history of the American electoral system. The idea that the President would throw around this kind of claim without a scintilla of evidence to support it (and despite the broad consensus of everyone who has seriously looked into the issue that it isn't true) is really remarkable. The fact that he's doing it solely due to the brittleness of his ego is scary. This is what we get for electing a floridly mentally ill man President. May God help us all.

It is remarkable that we have elected someone who seems to be showing clear signs of mental illness from the get-go. I mean look at this fucking quote from the Post, where apparently a large number of members of his administration are already leaking information about him:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...3c4b4fb5a63_story.html?utm_term=.2aa62741d6a1

Trump has been resentful, even furious, at what he views as the media’s failure to reflect the magnitude of his achievements, and he feels demoralized that the public’s perception of his presidency so far does not necessarily align with his own sense of accomplishment.

The most powerful man in the world is sitting in the White House, seething with resentment that the media isn't glorifying him enough and is depressed because the rest of the world doesn't love him enough. When you combine this with quotes from other, also leaked stories about him saying that he doesn't have a sufficient attention span and keeps trying to watch TV but then becomes enraged about it when people on TV say mean things about him... I mean jesus christ. Apparently (no joke) his aides are trying to find ways to prevent him from watching TV because he loses his temper when he does.

I totally feel you. God help us all.
 

Lash444

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2002
1,708
63
91
Alternative fact equivalency

Just because Obama told some lies, doesn't mean that absolves Trump when he frequently does so.
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,607
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So I guess the illegitimacy of the voting process in the country due to rampant voter fraud is the official position of the U.S. Government from here on out. Has anyone told these people what they now represent?
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
I made a very simple request which was for you to provide the exact words of the statements you were claiming to be false so that we could operate from a shared understanding of what was said instead of your attempts to dishonestly spin things like you usually do. This is not a difficult or unreasonable request and it says a lot that you're desperately trying to avoid doing it.

Once you provide the quotes we'll go back to what I originally said and see how they measure up! It will be a fun journey of discovery for us both.
I'm letting you pick which of his statements I cited that you feel can be easily explained away as NOT "demonstrably and provably false". I simply don't have the time to go into all the details of every example I cited. Pick one or two and we'll go from there.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,264
48,470
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I'm letting you pick which of his statements I cited that you feel can be easily explained away as NOT "demonstrably and provably false". I simply don't have the time to go into all the details of every example I cited. Pick one or two and we'll go from there.

They're your examples, you pick the ones you consider to be strongest.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,652
29,315
146
As one of the reporters at today's press conference said, this allegation, if true, would be the greatest scandal in the history of the American electoral system. The idea that the President would throw around this kind of claim without a scintilla of evidence to support it (and despite the broad consensus of everyone who has seriously looked into the issue that it isn't true) is really remarkable. The fact that he's doing it solely due to the brittleness of his ego is scary. This is what we get for electing a floridly mentally ill man President. May God help us all.

It really is quite interesting how he insists that the election was a fraud. Well, at least that is the single talking point that he hasn't flipped on! You would think he had lost.

Maybe he did lose?

I wonder if he understands that he is essentially calling his presidency illegitimate by claiming that the election was a fraud. Interesting times!
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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Gotta love it. Imagine being Prez & not asking for inauguration attendance estimates before pulling numbers out of your ass & then getting all twisted when called on your bullshit. Imagine millions of blind loyal followers defending you. Imagine questioning the validity of your own election as a successful pander point to your base.

Poor Donald! So persecuted! The media conspires against him just like they did for Hillary! They're just as bad!

The path to obfuscation & denial won't get any easier for those currently in thrall.