Citing no evidence, Trump claims illegals cost him pop vote

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,890
47,731
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Opinion is opinion and hypersensitive outrage is hypersensitive outrage. Obama stated his opinion without providing any basis in fact many, many times and the left didn't seem to mind then. Double standard is double standard and hypocrisy is hypocrisy.

You're totally right, your post is an excellent example of a double standard. The fact that you're even trying to equate Obama stating his opinion without providing the factual basis with Trump's repeated assertions of things that are demonstrably, provably false, even in the face of explicit pushback to the contrary is just sad.

If you believe Obama repeatedly engaged in this sort of deliberate denial of verifiable reality then by all means post examples. If not, please admit your double standard. My guess is that you will quote things that Obama said that later turned out to be not true and try and act like that's the same thing.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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47,731
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Trump and his team are simply laying groundwork how they are going to handle the media and the truth.

For example: If unemployment hits 10%, they will just have alternate facts that say it's now below 3%. If we enter two consecutive quarters of negative growth, they will say that the economy is growing more than ever. He will continue to discredit the media so he can use the media to his great advantage because they must report his lies, and the Trump supporter's hear the lies and most will believe them to be true. The fact that decent journalists from a media source Trump has labeled "fake news" will say "this is a lie" will actually reinforce the Trumpists' beliefs.

I would agree with this for the most part. I think his goal is to simply sow enough doubt in people's minds that they give up on trying to figure out what's true and what isn't. Then he can basically craft his own narrative with impunity.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,456
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I would agree with this for the most part. I think his goal is to simply sow enough doubt in people's minds that they give up on trying to figure out what's true and what isn't. Then he can basically craft his own narrative with impunity.


I agree.

This has been proven to be a an effective technique in other regimes as well; Putin has absolutely perfected it.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,011
32,968
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What a stupid thing for Trump to say. Even more stupid is why he would discuss the popular vote at all. His obsession with meaningless crap is going to be his downfall if he keeps it up.

It isn't like he was pandering to his base either. This was the congressional leadership
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,543
29,148
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Opinion is opinion and hypersensitive outrage is hypersensitive outrage. Obama stated his opinion without providing any basis in fact many, many times during his administration and the Left didn't seem to mind then. Double standard is double standard and hypocrisy is hypocrisy.

Are you crafting good old country aphorisms while taking a dump on the John again? Oh you....
:hamburger:
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,272
103
106
It isn't like he was pandering to his base either. This was the congressional leadership

I agree, that just makes it even dumber. It's one thing to say stuff hoping to rally the base for some reason, even if with lies. That's pretty much standard for politicians. I can think of no logical reason to keep talking about that bullshit in front of congressional leaders, other than just Trump being obsessed with it.

He won the election, he needs to move on.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,543
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It isn't like he was pandering to his base either. This was the congressional leadership

People are still convinced that this Trump character is "an act" that he crafts for the public. Behind the scenes, he is somehow an expert manager of things. Despite the years of evidence from everyone that has known and worked with him, and events like this where he seems completely incapable of serious, adult discourse, some still want to believe that he is somehow clever or smart.That this is all a crafted plan.

He truly is not. I wonder how long it will take the most fervent deniers to come around? I imagine such acceptance is truly painful for those that are thoroughly invested, emotionally, in the belief that this guy is going to turn it around for them.

I think there is some strategy here, but he's winging it. Why not? He winged his way through life so what is to stop him now?
 
Nov 30, 2006
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You're totally right, your post is an excellent example of a double standard. The fact that you're even trying to equate Obama stating his opinion without providing the factual basis with Trump's repeated assertions of things that are demonstrably, provably false, even in the face of explicit pushback to the contrary is just sad.

If you believe Obama repeatedly engaged in this sort of deliberate denial of verifiable reality then by all means post examples. If not, please admit your double standard. My guess is that you will quote things that Obama said that later turned out to be not true and try and act like that's the same thing.
And it's not also demonstrably and provably false when Obama claimed that it is easier for teens to buy a Glock than get a book, said his position hasn’t changed on using executive authority to address immigration issues, said most young Americans are not covered by health insurance, said we have doubled the distance our cars will go on a gallon of gas, said "Fast and Furious" began under the Bush administration, said the only time government employment has gone down during a recession has been under him, said for the first time since 1990, American manufacturers are creating new jobs, said as President the US has doubled our exports, said he didn't raise taxes, said he's excluded lobbyists from policymaking jobs, and said that if you like your health care plan, you can keep it? This is a mere fraction of the numerous statements Obama made that were in denial of verifiable reality.

My guess is that you'll spin and rationalize these numerous examples as something that's somehow significantly less egregious...at least in your mind. lol
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,890
47,731
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And it's not also demonstrably and provably false when Obama claimed that it is easier for teens to buy a Glock than get a book, said his position hasn’t changed on using executive authority to address immigration issues, said most young Americans are not covered by health insurance, said we have doubled the distance our cars will go on a gallon of gas, said "Fast and Furious" began under the Bush administration, said the only time government employment has gone down during a recession has been under him, said for the first time since 1990, American manufacturers are creating new jobs, said as President the US has doubled our exports, said he didn't raise taxes, said he's excluded lobbyists from policymaking jobs, and said that if you like your health care plan, you can keep it? This is a mere fraction of the numerous statements Obama made that were in denial of verifiable reality.

My guess is that you'll spin and rationalize these numerous examples as something that's somehow significantly less egregious...at least in your mind. lol

Lol, link to specific statements, not your desperate attempts at spin on his statements.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,685
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Obama did lie in office, I wouldn't deny that. There is a difference between the nature of Obama's (and every other presidents') lies, and the lies that Trump are telling.

When other politicians lie, it is usually to try to spin something in their favor, when the lie or falsehood is uncovered, they will generally admit it and adjust their talking point. This administration is very different. These lies are designed to undermine the press. https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-01-23/why-trump-s-staff-is-lying

This is extremely pernicious and dangerous. It is a deliberate effort to destroy the ability of the American people to participate in a democracy. I don't expect you to recognize any of this as you are far too invested in your views, just like most Americans that these lies are targeting.
 

vampirefo

Member
Nov 30, 2014
127
3
46
Opinion is opinion and hypersensitive outrage is hypersensitive outrage. Obama stated his opinion without providing any basis in fact many, many times during his administration and the Left didn't seem to mind then. Double standard is double standard and hypocrisy is hypocrisy.
Exactly, Obama was useless and the left knew it so they never questioned him.

Obama lied so much his following couldn't tell when he was lying or really lying, his following simply never questioned or listened to a thing he said.

They follow every word Trump says, simply cause he is a leader and true leadership makes people listen.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,890
47,731
136
Obama did lie in office, I wouldn't deny that. There is a difference between the nature of Obama's (and every other presidents') lies, and the lies that Trump are telling.

When other politicians lie, it is usually to try to spin something in their favor, when the lie or falsehood is uncovered, they will generally admit it and adjust their talking point. This administration is very different. These lies are designed to undermine the press. https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-01-23/why-trump-s-staff-is-lying

This is extremely pernicious and dangerous. It is a deliberate effort to destroy the ability of the American people to participate in a democracy. I don't expect you to recognize any of this as you are far too invested in your views, just like most Americans that these lies are targeting.

Exactly, no sane person would ever claim that Obama never lied in office but that's not what this thread is about. I'm unaware of any statement he ever made that was on this level of plainly denying the facts being shoved in his face and stubbornly insisting the opposite. People who are trying to reframe this as 'all presidents lie' are trying to dodge how different this is.

I remember when DSF kept complaining that Obama was thin skinned and childish, which by itself is hilarious given his almost legendary even keel in the face of unrelenting attacks. Now he's defending Trump. Guess he didn't really mind that after all, haha.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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Lol, link to specific statements, not your desperate attempts at spin on his statements.
So you're now saying that I'm desperately spinning his statements when they are obviously false? Or are you saying that I'm somehow taking these statements out of context and they aren't actually false?
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,685
126
I remember when DSF kept complaining that Obama was thin skinned and childish, which by itself is hilarious given his almost legendary even keel in the face of unrelenting attacks. Now he's defending Trump. Guess he didn't really mind that after all, haha.

The hypocrisy of the people that criticized Obama is appalling. Everything he was accused of doing - lying, dividing the nation, lacking experience, etc. Trump is ten times worse.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,890
47,731
136
So you're now saying that I'm desperately spinning his statements when they are obviously false? Or are you saying that I'm somehow taking these statements out of context and they aren't actually false?

What I'm saying is that just as I predicted you are trying to conflate very different things. It's not like I didn't know you were going to try this, it's why I said it before you even had a chance to respond.

Let's go through these together. Link actual statements Obama made over his entire presidency and we will compare them to just the things Trump has said in four days. This will be fun!
 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
3,070
2,118
136
Exactly, Obama was useless and the left knew it so they never questioned him.

Obama lied so much his following couldn't tell when he was lying or really lying, his following simply never questioned or listened to a thing he said.

They follow every word Trump says, simply cause he is a leader and true leadership makes people listen.

dont let facts get in your way of a good rant

http://static.images.publisher.attn.com/sites/default/files/blog_who_lies_more.jpg
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,543
29,148
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The hypocrisy of the people that criticized Obama is appalling. Everything he was accused of doing - lying, dividing the nation, lacking experience, etc. Trump is ten times worse.

It's not dividing the nation when you feel that your team is the one with their boots on the necks of the other. Feeling of division only comes from the self-defined "losers."

This is especially interesting because Trump supporters represent, possibly, the smallest political minority to ever have power in this country (which, as we know from all of history--is an extremely dangerous catalyst for civil unrest and a necessary step towards totalitarianism).
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,890
47,731
136
The hypocrisy of the people that criticized Obama is appalling. Everything he was accused of doing - lying, dividing the nation, lacking experience, etc. Trump is ten times worse.

It really has laid bare just how dishonest those attacks were. They never cared if the president was childish, honest, divisive, etc, they cared that he was a Democrat.

Similarly it's been amusing and sad to see a party that thought a worldwide financial crisis was preferable to raising the debt ceiling under a Democrat suddenly decide that some more debt and deficit spending was just what the doctor ordered.

I guess it would surprise me that so few conservatives seem fazed by this blatant hypocrisy but my guess is they only consume conservative media where this is not mentioned or is hand waved away.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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What I'm saying is that just as I predicted you are trying to conflate very different things. It's not like I didn't know you were going to try this, it's why I said it before you even had a chance to respond.

Let's go through these together. Link actual statements Obama made over his entire presidency and we will compare them to just the things Trump has said in four days. This will be fun!
Exactly what am I conflating...please be specific.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,011
32,968
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Sean Spicer just said that Trump believes there was massive voter fraud based on "evidence" and "studies" that he has. He declined to specify what "evidence" the president has to back that up.
 

Mxylplyx

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2007
4,197
101
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Exactly what am I conflating...please be specific.

More reading comprehension. He was pretty specific about what he was referring to, though we both know that you are just avoiding providing the specific examples like requested, because there is no comparison between these 2 administrations. Obama, nor any administration in my lifetime, not once had his press secretary stand in front of the press and tell an obvious, comfirmible, bold faced lie that was obvious to everyone, including the press secretary himself, the moment he said it. That is a trait of authoritarians and dictators. The next step wannabe dictators take is trying to actively muzzle the press, i.e. Trump suggesting broadening libel laws to intimidate the press into silence.