Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,599
- 19
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The report said that most of the useful information was obtained pretty easily, before any of the torture began for the people they got.Yep, I agree. I was just kind of pointing out that this isn't exactly the crazy torture chamber that a lot of the people who rally against torture wish was found. It's stuff that a lot of people have had done to them under non life threatening circumstances, which can turn pretty crappy when done for days and days on end. I mean, I'm really not sure what's worse.. Being kept awake and made to stand while constantly being cold for 2 weeks, or having my ball sack smashed with a rubber mallet, only after all my finger nails were ripped off and both my legs broken in 4 places.
All of that sounds pretty terrible. The question becomes, what line do you walk in order to get legit information out of people you truly think are a threat and torturing people for fun/have no useful information.
No, it's not as bad as some of the things we've done in the past. We're just trying to adapt. It's along the same lines as "Make sure you don't break the skin or leave any bruises" when beating someone.
They went to the trouble of keeping these people overseas to ensure that they wouldn't be subject to US laws concerning torture, or trials, or cruel and unusual punishment.
I don't think that the information they may or may not have should be relevant here. You're then going to the level of saying "Put a price on a human life," or "put a price on your values."
So at what price would you murder a family member? What would have to be at stake for you to put a bullet through the head of someone you love? When does it become acceptable?
Likewise, this situation: When does it become acceptable to torture potentially innocent people? You can try to justify it all you want, but what you still have to contend with is that you've done something horrible because you were scared.
Some of the oldest laws in the US are set up with the idea that a person is innocent unless they are proven to be guilty of a crime beyond any reasonable doubt. The idea is that innocent people should never be punished properly. Along with that, we have rules against cruel and unusual punishment, partly with the idea in mind that we can return these people to society and permit them to again be productive members, and also so that anyone who is falsely imprisoned would not be subjected to torture.
It's something to try to make us at least look or feel like we've progressed as a society.
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