CIA Torture Report Set to Go Nuclear

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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,521
17,029
136
Even my (very liberal) Senator, Mark Udall, was appalled, when he heard they were going to publish this trash.

-John

Lol! I'd call you a liar but in your current mental state it wouldn't be fair.


As I posted earlier:

Timeline
https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/torture-report

Udall on January 6 2014

Udall writes to President Obama, asking that the White House compel the CIA to respond to remaining information requests. He also asks for "a public statement from the White House committing to the fullest possible declassification of the Committee's study in the most expedient and responsible manner possible."


Now take your meds.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Seriously the more I read about this the sicker I get. These people who were enlisted for this sound like people who enlisted for the SS death squads. And this is only the parts they released. I can only imagine what the stuff that is being protected look like.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,521
17,029
136
Seriously the more I read about this the sicker I get. These people who were enlisted for this sound like people who enlisted for the SS death squads. And this is only the parts they released. I can only imagine what the stuff that is being protected look like.

I find the people who created the policy and justified it and who pushed for it's use are more disgusting than those that actually did the torturing (not that that doesn't require one to be messed in the head to actually do this).
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
20
81
USA.

We can you remotely from the sky, and lock you away and torture you if we think you might not like us. It's not like anyone's going to stop us.


So we've got laws about "cruel and unusual punishment" for US citizens. Do we automatically assign the people of other nations all the status and respect that we also show to common mass-production livestock?
"We have standards here in the land of freedom! (Course, we're in Country <redacted>, where we can do whatever we want.) In God We Trust is the motto, and may He guide our unwavering moral compass! Now we're going to give you a demonstration of those wonderful values by chaining you to the ceiling so that you have to shit on yourself."

Good christ....

It starts in the Bush administration, and continues right into the next one. Can't stop the momentum of corruption, not while everyone's working on the truly important issue of trying to rationalize the actions of their political party.




:hmm:
So let's see, if I go overseas specifically to do things that are illegal in the US, I'd be guilty of a crime, right?
Mr. Rizzo's testimony is incongruent with CIA records. After the capture of Abu Zubaydah,
--------
CTC Legal,
prepared a PowerPoint presentation laying out the "pros" and "cons" of six detention options. The pros for detention in Country
-
, where Abu Zubaydah would be rendered, included "[n]o issues of possible U.S. [court] jurisdiction." The cons for a CIA facility in the United States included "[c]an't foreclose ability of U.S. [courts] considering Habeas Corpus petition.
And they're looking to get candidates for interrogation who are good with difficult people and have a solid work history:
Numerous CIA interrogators and other CIA personnel associated with the program had either suspected or documented personal and professional problems that raised questions about their judgment and CIA employment. This group of officers included individuals who, among other issues, had engaged in inappropriate detainee interrogations, had workplace anger management issues, and had reportedly admitted to sexual assault.

Oh but wait I stand at my desk 8 hours a day so how can standing be torture?

Gullible naive people think this is ok.
But those people have to endure constant hell, like breaks, lunch, walking to the bathroom, and going home. The US government will remove the need for bathroom breaks, and they'll provide you with a meal and a place to sleep:
According to an August 26, 2004, cable, after a 47-hour session of standing sleep deprivation, Janat Gul was returned to his cell, allowed to remove his diaper, given a towel and a meal, and permitted to sleep.
But wait, there's more.
In October 2004, the CIA conducted a
------
of the CIA source who had identified Gul as having knowledge of
attack planning for the pre-election threat.
------------
the CIA source admitted to fabricating the information. Gul was subsequently transferred to a foreign government. On
----------------
informed the CIA that Janat Gul had been released.
"Hey, good news, you can go! On your way now!"

Janut Gul was in CIA custody for 920-930 days. (last digit of time in custody was blacked out)




But hey, there were at least some people who had a shred of ethics left somewhere in them.
August 8, 2002: "Today's first session...had a profound effect on all staff members present...it seems the collective opinion that we should not go much further...everyone seems strong for now but if the group has to continue.. .we cannot guarantee how much longer."

• August 8, 2002: "Several on the team profoundly affected...some to the point of tears and choking up."

August 9, 2002: "two, perhaps three [personnel] likely to elect transfer" away from the detention site if the decision is made to continue with the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques.


"Enhanced interrogation."
Throw your bullshit feel-good marketing term in the trash compactor and dive right in after it.
 

berzerker60

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2012
1,233
1
0
Seriously the more I read about this the sicker I get. These people who were enlisted for this sound like people who enlisted for the SS death squads. And this is only the parts they released. I can only imagine what the stuff that is being protected look like.

Agreed. That's why I'm so baffled by the amount of people twisting themselves into knots in order to defend the indefensible, or make it about politics. For God's sake, if we can't agree that torturing people is wrong, what can we possibly agree about?
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
20
81
And the officials even try to justify this practice, saying it's saved lives.


We could also save lives if we did live dissections of people. The human brain is still rather poorly understood. Imagine what information we could get if we started poking and prodding around living brains. Whether or not they're willing is irrelevant, just think of all the good it would do! We might figure out Alzheimer's or dementia, or how to mitigate the damage from a stroke. Sure we might have some blood on our hands, and have a few hundred or thousand people with irreparable brain damage, and a few surgeons could break down and kill themselves when they realize the magnitude of the incredibly horrific things they're doing, but you just have to look at the big picture, people!


Maybe we could start with the people who authorized this, and maybe it would help figure out exactly how they thought that this was acceptable.


(Isn't it rather sad that we have to write down rules and history to remind ourselves as a species that torturing people is not a good idea? It's why I don't really use "inhuman" to describe despicable or cruel acts. Torturing others is something that comes so naturally to us that we need written reminders that it's a bad idea.)





#4: The conditions ofconfinement for CIA detainees were harsher than the CIA had
represented to policymakers and others.
Yes, it looks that way.

Lack of heat at the facility likely contributed to the death of a detainee.
This person was in CIA custody for under 20 days.

On November
--
, 2002, Gul Rahman was shackled to the wall of his cell in a short chain position, which required him to sit on the bare concrete. Rahman was wearing a sweatshirt, but was nude from the waist down. On November
--
, 2002, the guards at DETENTION SITE COBALT found Gul Rahman's dead body. Although a CIA employee tried to perform CPR, Gul Rahman remained unresponsive and was declared dead. An autopsy report by the CIA found that the cause of Gul Rahman's death was "undetermined," but that the clinical impression of the medical officer who conducted the autopsy was that the cause of death was hypothermia.'
Less than a month after the death of Gul Rahman from suspected hypothermia, the plans also called for detainees' clothes to be removed in a facility that was described to be 45 degrees Fahrenheit.

Four months later, the officer, who was also the site manager, who ordered that Rahman be chained up received a $2500 cash award for "consistently superior work."
 
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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
33,108
11,287
136
I don't think the agents that tortured should be prosecuted, I think their superiors and those that set the policy should be prosecuted. Starting with Cheney.

So you don't think, say, jihadi John should be punished but the ones higher up that told him to cut off peoples heads?
 

Blanky

Platinum Member
Oct 18, 2014
2,457
12
46
It is really pathetic how few conservatives came out against this.

Shame on you all.
It is, but wake me up when Obama and the other democrats in power push for prison terms for these treasonous scum using the CIA's name to brutalize in the name of the US.
Obama&#8217;s best argument for letting matters rest is the principle against criminalizing politics.
Haha, what a fucking joke. But I knew this would happen. Nobody cares because it didn't happen to them and they lack the spine to stand up for it.

These are people tortured who were convicted of no crime (not that we should be torturing criminals, either). All the proles know are their emotions, though, so they are continually reminded of 911 like Pavlov's dog and so salivate at the notion of potentially getting back at somebody who has some tenuous connection to something about the middle east, which is where 911 was planned. And that's just good enough for them.
 

frowertr

Golden Member
Apr 17, 2010
1,372
41
91
I didn't realize the terrorists were following US law.

Lol!

Sssshh. The liberals in this thread are minutes away from blowing their collective tops from the U.S. keeping detainees 'awake' for extended periods.

Give me a break. Give me the rubber hose. I'll be the first, in a looong line of people, waiting beating the shit out of them to get answers.

Turn the whole fucking area into a glass palace I say with a couple well placed nukes...
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
Remember back in the day all the posters here who experienced worse torture at their collage hazing?
Libs are just a bunch of pussies etc
lol
 
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Blanky

Platinum Member
Oct 18, 2014
2,457
12
46
Give me a break. Give me the rubber hose. I'll be the first, in a looong line of people, waiting beating the shit out of them to get answers.

Turn the whole fucking area into a glass palace I say with a couple well placed nukes...
Awesome! I can one up you. I would personally cut these guys' fingers off and make them eat them for even looking wrong at an American Flag. I've seen so many movies with torture in them I'd be awesome at it, and Aziz would see how truly bad ass I am. Sure he might die, sure he was convicted of no crime, sure torture has been shown to be quite ineffective, but hell I'd to it anyway because if I can save even one American life it's worth me torturing the lot of these sandy bastards. 'Murica!
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,010
66
91
Seriously the more I read about this the sicker I get. These people who were enlisted for this sound like people who enlisted for the SS death squads. And this is only the parts they released. I can only imagine what the stuff that is being protected look like.

Yeah this. What they released is essentially the same crap that like 99% of all fraternity pledging is like. Yes if done long enough it's pretty brutal, but aside from water boarding, must of that stuff is harmless done short term.

One of the things they listed they do is put them on a tarp and basically douse them in cold water on and off again, while not being allowed to sleep, etc. When I pledged, I stood in a cold ass basement for 24hrs straight, with no sleep, all while being covered in ice cold water on and off again about every hour. I pissed myself to keep warm.

I guess though in a way this type of torture is worse than say, cutting their ears off or something. It messes with you mentally and effects your whole body. That's probably why they opt for stuff like this over traditional torture. I guess the exception would be waterboarding, which seems pretty bad.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,569
3,762
126
Obama will NOT prosecute....

Goddamn it why the hell not? Just like fucking wall street all over again. Don't do terrible things and ruin lives because if you do we will wag our finger disapprovingly at you....
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,862
33,918
136
One of the things they listed they do is put them on a tarp and basically douse them in cold water on and off again, while not being allowed to sleep, etc. When I pledged, I stood in a cold ass basement for 24hrs straight, with no sleep, all while being covered in ice cold water on and off again about every hour. I pissed myself to keep warm.
And you signed up for this, why?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
Goddamn it why the hell not? Just like fucking wall street all over again. Don't do terrible things and ruin lives because if you do we will wag our finger disapprovingly at you....

Obama is a supporter of much which has been done. He may or may not be supportive of torture- he says he's not- but then he's for closing Gitmo and people who are for that go "yay" without thinking of something very important. Gitmo is subject to US law. By moving captives to Uruguay and similar countries what happens is completely beyond court control. Absolutely anything could be done by the host nations at our bidding and if (not saying that automatically will happen) wholesale dismemberment were to occur you could never know. It's a step down in terms of accountability and oversight other than by those who control the agenda to begin with. BUT BUT BOOSH!!!

There's little difference that we can know about except for the window dressing.

cue the apologists.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,964
55,355
136
Obama is a supporter of much which has been done. He may or may not be supportive of torture- he says he's not- but then he's for closing Gitmo and people who are for that go "yay" without thinking of something very important. Gitmo is subject to US law. By moving captives to Uruguay and similar countries what happens is completely beyond court control. Absolutely anything could be done by the host nations at our bidding and if (not saying that automatically will happen) wholesale dismemberment were to occur you could never know. It's a step down in terms of accountability and oversight other than by those who control the agenda to begin with. BUT BUT BOOSH!!!

There's little difference that we can know about except for the window dressing.

cue the apologists.

That doesn't make much sense. Obama tried to close gitmo in a better way and was stopped.

Obama has a horrible record on civil liberties but gitmo is not part of it. If you're going to criticize the guy it's important to be sure to criticize him on things he deserves it for.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
Does palehorse still post here? He was actually involved in "interrogating the enemy"
I wonder if anything has changed with him.
How about you JediYoda? Did you have any experience with this in all your years with US mil intel or Mossad?
 

Raizinman

Platinum Member
Sep 7, 2007
2,355
75
91
meettomy.site
What would the US do if some foreign nation did these type of torture techniques on American? Can you blame any foreign country for wanting to retaliate?
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,010
66
91
And you signed up for this, why?

1) I didn't know that would happen. No..They come right out on day one and tell you, "oh by the way, before you can finally get in, we lock you in the basement covered in cold water for a day."

2) I went to an engineering college, aka about 5 hot girls on the entire campus who got brain washed into thinking they were Goddesses. Being in a fraternity was one of the only ways to consistently meet girls from the state school down the road.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
That doesn't make much sense. Obama tried to close gitmo in a better way and was stopped.

Obama has a horrible record on civil liberties but gitmo is not part of it. If you're going to criticize the guy it's important to be sure to criticize him on things he deserves it for.

I think it's fantastic that there are nations who are willing to take them as refugees. Good for them. What happens to the rest? What about the very concept of extraordinary rendition? Yes an EO says that US laws must be followed, but if that is the case when why remove them to places where actual US jurisdiction does not apply? Has Obama done nothing to make things better? No, not at all. That which we are allowed to know about has improved. I haven't much confidence in how what we can know is being given out. The report on the CIA was something that the administration attempted to redact to death. The reforms of the NSA haven't happened.

Color me suspicious, but for reasons of past and present experience.