CIA Torture Report Set to Go Nuclear

[rudder]

Liberal Logic....

Bad! Mean Republicans! The world must know!!!! We must release the report today (even though it has been completed for two years).

Drone strike? Where did Kim Kardashian buy a house?

 

[marincounty]

Conservative logic, drone strike bad-it killed three civilians along with a couple of terrorists.
Invade Iraq and kill hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, justified with false intelligence and let's not have any investigations.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Why should I answer? What does the question have to do with the topic of this thread, anyway? Should I condemn the killing of Bin Laden along with the drone war, which I've already done?

It's a simple question with a simple answer. Do you condemn his continuation and expansion of extrajudicial assassination?

On reflection I have a 2nd, related, question. Do you condemn the continuation of extraordinary rendition policies under the present administration? (This is more directly related to the release of the report.)

 

[Zorkorist]

We've already determined this isn't about Obama (or Bush.)

It's about Torture, and that the Government of the United States of America is complicit in torture, and practices torture.

What the discussion should now be about, to protect our agents in combat, and citizens of the world, is how to prosecute those that committed torture in our name.

-John

 

[fskimospy]

It is really pathetic how few conservatives came out against this.

Shame on you all.

 

[marincounty]

We've already determined this isn't about Obama (or Bush.)

It's about Torture, and that the Government of the United States of America is complicit in torture, and practices torture.

What the discussion should now be about, to protect our agents in combat, and citizens of the world, is how to prosecute those that committed torture in our name.

-John

This is the proper response of any true American. Anyone who doesn't even want to know what happened is a failure of an American.

 

[IGBT]

It is really pathetic how few conservatives came out against this.

Shame on you all.

...typical liberal selective indignation.

 

[berzerker60]

Liberal Logic....

Bad! Mean Republicans! The world must know!!!! We must release the report today (even though it has been completed for two years).

Drone strike? Where did Kim Kardashian buy a house?

Consider, just for a moment, that America torturing hundreds of people, including some the CIA itself admits were taken on false information and were not guilty of anything, for no meaningful purpose, is not a "liberal vs. conservative" issue. This isn't a sport, where you're cheering for Red Team against those darned Blue Team fans. Blue Team doing something bad too doesn't mean we're back to an even score in Red vs. Blue, it means America is truly fucked. Two wrongs don't make less of a violation of human rights.

Yes, Obama's drone program (which he adopted but definitely accelerated and is responsible for) is a serious issue worth discussing. Personally I think it's awful. If you seriously think a Republican president would NOT have pursued that policy, then fine, that's a perfectly good reason to think voting for a Republican president would be better. Either way it's irrelevant to this issue. Putting your fingers in your ear and yelling "NO AMERICA #1 CAN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG" doesn't actually make anything better.

Denial is a coward's game. Man up and accept that America did horrible things, in this case under a Republican president. That probably mean you should vote for candidates - Republican or Democrat - who aren't in favor of doing even more awful things.

 

[Jmman]

The only thing here that qualifies as torture are those pictures of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. Guy has more back hair than a grizzly bear........

 

[bshole]

Obama will NOT prosecute....

The release of the Senate Intelligence Committee report on torture under the Bush administration has revived calls for the Obama administration to prosecute those responsible for violating the law. Critics argue correctly that if torturers are not punished, then torture could happen again. But Obama has acted rightly by refusing to authorize prosecutions. He acted rightly because prosecutions would have failed to secure convictions; and he acted rightly as a matter of principle. Criminal punishment of a partisan opponent who engages in illegal behavior for policy rather than personal reasons can pose a risk to democracy.



The committee report makes plain that CIA agents who tortured detainees, and higher government officials who authorized torture (up to President Bush), violated the law. A federal statute bans torture. Other laws make it illegal for anyone, including officials, to use physical violence against people in order to extract information from them. The United States is also a party to an international treaty, the Convention Against Torture, which bans torture and requires governments to refer torturers to prosecutors.

So how could Obama spare the torturers? As we have just learned from the debate about immigration, the president enjoys broad prosecutorial discretion. Just as he can decide not to prosecute foreigners who violate our immigration laws, he can decide not to prosecute Americans who violate our torture laws.



So the question is why Obama decided to spare the torturers. When prosecutors—or their bosses—make such a judgment, their chief concern is usually how to use their limited resources in the most effective way. Prosecutors do not bring cases unless they think they will win. Otherwise, they waste resources that could be used to prosecute other criminals.

Obama’s best argument for letting matters rest is the principle against criminalizing politics.



The committee report is full of damning evidence that shows extensive and brutal torture, even beyond the limits prescribed by government lawyers, and which apparently did not yield valuable information. Despite these findings, it is unlikely that prosecutors would be able to convict anyone of a crime. Some more recent history is helpful here. As we saw with the police shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson and the chokehold death of Eric Garner in New York, the law gives a great deal of protection to police officers who are accused of abusing their power. The principle applies to CIA agents as well.



Of course, there are differences in the cases. More deference will be given to a police officer who must deal with a potentially violent criminal suspect on the street than to an agent who beats up a bound suspect in custody. But there are cross-cutting considerations. The torture detailed in the committee report took place abroad, sometimes in military zones, involving people who were thought to be hardened militants rather than ordinary criminals.



Moreover, the CIA agents were told by government lawyers that the law permitted them to use waterboarding and other coercive techniques. And they were acting in the arena of national security, under conditions of great uncertainty about the extent of their powers. The Obama administration has used a legal doctrine called the state secrecy privilege to prevent victims of torture from using evidence of torture in civil actions against government officials. If secrecy concerns driven by national security justify constraints on civil actions, then they justify constraints on criminal actions as well.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._t_prosecute_cia_and_bush_administration.html

 

[Zorkorist]

Sick.

It was his administration that published the report.

It's like he is giving a green light to torture people.

-John

 

[ivwshane]

I don't think the agents that tortured should be prosecuted, I think their superiors and those that set the policy should be prosecuted. Starting with Cheney.



If the tables were turned you can bet your ass the republicans would have been calling for people's heads.

Sadly, the democrat meme of being political pussies is true

 

[Zorkorist]

They should all be prosecuted, iwshane.

Jesus, we're talking torture here.

If you speed, 10 over the speed limit, you should be prosecuted.

-John

 

[ivwshane]

They should all be prosecuted, iwshane.

Jesus, we're talking torture here.

If you speed, 10 over the speed limit, you should be prosecuted.

-John

Yes but just like in the military, ground level CIA agents simply just do what their told or face discipline for insubordination.

 

[rudder]

Consider, just for a moment, that America torturing hundreds of people, including some the CIA itself admits were taken on false information and were not guilty of anything, for no meaningful purpose, is not a "liberal vs. conservative" issue. This isn't a sport, where you're cheering for Red Team against those darned Blue Team fans. Blue Team doing something bad too doesn't mean we're back to an even score in Red vs. Blue, it means America is truly fucked. Two wrongs don't make less of a violation of human rights.

Yes, Obama's drone program (which he adopted but definitely accelerated and is responsible for) is a serious issue worth discussing. Personally I think it's awful. If you seriously think a Republican president would NOT have pursued that policy, then fine, that's a perfectly good reason to think voting for a Republican president would be better. Either way it's irrelevant to this issue. Putting your fingers in your ear and yelling "NO AMERICA #1 CAN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG" doesn't actually make anything better.

Denial is a coward's game. Man up and accept that America did horrible things, in this case under a Republican president. That probably mean you should vote for candidates - Republican or Democrat - who aren't in favor of doing even more awful things.

Are you in complete denial about the fact that Diane Feinstein politicized this whole report? Look at the timing of the release.. you do realize this report was completed in December 2012? Of course no political points could be gained by making the move then.

Feinstein was one of the shits who authorized the CIA to use enhanced interrogation techniques. Now, did the CIA exceed those authorizations? Perhaps... but could the senate intelligence committee not have handled this issue behind closed doors versus releasing this inflammatory brief while the middle east is burning?

You were a tad bit off in your analysis (well way off actually). I am genuinely concerned about the lack of oversight and accountability that occured during the whole period. Any time any part of the government acts with impunity is not a good thing.

obama especially should not be polticizing this while being responsible for way more deaths of innocent children than waterboarded terrorists.

 

[Pens1566]

Are you in complete denial about the fact that Diane Feinstein politicized this whole report? Look at the timing of the release.. you do realize this report was completed in December 2012? Of course no political points could be gained by making the move then.

Feinstein was one of the shits who authorized the CIA to use enhanced interrogation techniques. Now, did the CIA exceed those authorizations? Perhaps... but could the senate intelligence committee not have handled this issue behind closed doors versus releasing this inflammatory brief while the middle east is burning?

You were a tad bit off in your analysis (well way off actually). I am genuinely concerned about the lack of oversight and accountability that occured during the whole period. Any time any part of the government acts with impunity is not a good thing.

obama especially should not be polticizing this while being responsible for way more deaths of innocent children than waterboarded terrorists.

If it were purely about scoring political points, it would have been released either over the summer to impact the midterms or held until convention season '16.

 

[ivwshane]

Lol! Exactly what political points are being won here, after the 2014 elections, a month before repubs take over the house?

You are a delusional hack, a clueless one at that. Here's the real reason it has taken awhile:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6290944


Timeline
https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/torture-report

Are you in complete denial about the fact that Diane Feinstein politicized this whole report? Look at the timing of the release.. you do realize this report was completed in December 2012? Of course no political points could be gained by making the move then.


Feinstein was one of the shits who authorized the CIA to use enhanced interrogation techniques. Now, did the CIA exceed those authorizations? Perhaps... but could the senate intelligence committee not have handled this issue behind closed doors versus releasing this inflammatory brief while the middle east is burning?

You were a tad bit off in your analysis (well way off actually). I am genuinely concerned about the lack of oversight and accountability that occured during the whole period. Any time any part of the government acts with impunity is not a good thing.

obama especially should not be polticizing this while being responsible for way more deaths of innocent children than waterboarded terrorists.

 

[Zorkorist]

It's about revenge, and hatred of America. It jeopardizes many lives.

This is what Diane Feinstein, and Obama are about, however.

Hatred of America.

-John

 

[Pens1566]

It's about revenge, and hatred of America. It jeopardizes many lives.

This is what Diane Feinstein, and Obama are about, however.

Hatred of America.

-John

Take your meds sparky.

 

[ivwshane]

It's about revenge, and hatred of America. It jeopardizes many lives.

This is what Diane Feinstein, and Obama are about, however.

Hatred of America.

-John

Uh ok. I'm guessing your meds just wore off, you were being quite rational up until this point.

 

[Zorkorist]

I'm still very rational.

-John

 

[ivwshane]

I'm still very rational.

-John

You just stated that the president of the United States and a long standing senator hate America. You are anything but rational.

 

[Zorkorist]

You asked what was to gain, and I told you.

Both Obama and Diane Feinstein will not face another election. Both have nothing to fear from the electorate.

Therefore they go on this hate campaign against America, and publish all her dirty secrets.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

Even my (very liberal) Senator, Mark Udall, was appalled, when he heard they were going to publish this trash.

-John

 

[Genx87]

I don't think the agents that tortured should be prosecuted, I think their superiors and those that set the policy should be prosecuted. Starting with Cheney.



If the tables were turned you can bet your ass the republicans would have been calling for people's heads.

Sadly, the democrat meme of being political pussies is true

Fuck that. They should also be prosecuted. No Nuremberg defense allowed.