CIA Torture Report Set to Go Nuclear

[Jeff7]

Yep, I agree. I was just kind of pointing out that this isn't exactly the crazy torture chamber that a lot of the people who rally against torture wish was found. It's stuff that a lot of people have had done to them under non life threatening circumstances, which can turn pretty crappy when done for days and days on end. I mean, I'm really not sure what's worse.. Being kept awake and made to stand while constantly being cold for 2 weeks, or having my ball sack smashed with a rubber mallet, only after all my finger nails were ripped off and both my legs broken in 4 places.

All of that sounds pretty terrible. The question becomes, what line do you walk in order to get legit information out of people you truly think are a threat and torturing people for fun/have no useful information.

The report said that most of the useful information was obtained pretty easily, before any of the torture began for the people they got.

No, it's not as bad as some of the things we've done in the past. We're just trying to adapt. It's along the same lines as "Make sure you don't break the skin or leave any bruises" when beating someone.
They went to the trouble of keeping these people overseas to ensure that they wouldn't be subject to US laws concerning torture, or trials, or cruel and unusual punishment.



I don't think that the information they may or may not have should be relevant here. You're then going to the level of saying "Put a price on a human life," or "put a price on your values."
So at what price would you murder a family member? What would have to be at stake for you to put a bullet through the head of someone you love? When does it become acceptable?
Likewise, this situation: When does it become acceptable to torture potentially innocent people? You can try to justify it all you want, but what you still have to contend with is that you've done something horrible because you were scared.


Some of the oldest laws in the US are set up with the idea that a person is innocent unless they are proven to be guilty of a crime beyond any reasonable doubt. The idea is that innocent people should never be punished properly. Along with that, we have rules against cruel and unusual punishment, partly with the idea in mind that we can return these people to society and permit them to again be productive members, and also so that anyone who is falsely imprisoned would not be subjected to torture.
It's something to try to make us at least look or feel like we've progressed as a society.

 

[piasabird]

Terrorist don't need real reasons to attack people. IS is trying to take over other Muslim areas because they aren't the correct brand of Islam! They hate each other as much as they hate westerners. I don't recommend rationalizing terrorism. They kill because they hate.

 

[Jhhnn]

Thank you for proving my point.

The only point you ever had was at the top of your head.

 

[Jhhnn]

Can confirm, I've both been subject to and carried out waterboarding, tazing, ice bathing, inversion and "cliff jumping" as part of fraternity initiation.

Do the Terrarists! get to join the brotherhood when it's over? Did you feel more manly afterwards?

 

[ivwshane]

Well neither are the CIA are they?

Yes, the CIA is supposed to follow US law. The problem is that there isn't proper oversight over the CIA.

 

[ivwshane]

Correct. That's the whole point of the CIA; they operate outside of the US mainly because what they do would be illegal here. Would arming the Crips or Bloods and training them to overthrow the government be legal or accepted here? Hell no. But that's what the CIA does every day in other countries.

The only reason this report is news is because the White House needed to take attention away from Gruber.

Gruber really hit a nerve with you didn't he? It must suck to know that when people are talking about stupid Americans you know they are talking about you.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

This all took place outside the United States and involved non-US citizens. The CIA can do whatever they want in those circumstances, IMO.

Of course they can. They could spirit you away and pay foreign nations to dismember your children in front of you for no reason at all. After all it wouldn't be in this country and they wouldn't be doing the actual cutting. Arent you happy?

 

[Nebor]

Of course they can. They could spirit you away and pay foreign nations to dismember your children in front of you for no reason at all. After all it wouldn't be in this country and they wouldn't be doing the actual cutting. Arent you happy?

I'm pretty happy with their performance. Given their budget, their bang for the buck is outstanding.

 

[ivwshane]

I'm laughing at all of the bush admin officials who created or justified torture who are going on tv now to try and clear their names. Their arguments basically boil down to: 9/11 was scary and we put aside all of our American values and principals and ignored the law and treaties and did what we had to do because, we were scared. I don't know about you but that's a pretty piss poor excuse, then again I'm not some principal ignoring pussy that's scared of other people who aren't like me.

I wonder who will buy the shit they are selling?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm laughing at all of the bush admin officials who created or justified torture who are going on tv now to try and clear their names. Their arguments basically boil down to: 9/11 was scary and we put aside all of our American values and principals and ignored the law and treaties and did what we had to do because, we were scared. I don't know about you but that's a pretty piss poor excuse, then again I'm not some principal ignoring pussy that's scared of other people who aren't like me.

I wonder who will buy the shit they are selling?

I'm not buying anything sold by anyone who was responsible, misrepresented or attempted to bury any of this. Nope. I don't want to hear any complaints about any party or politician if they support any of it. Nope.

 

[tweaker2]

There goes another precious chunk of history that Bush and Cheney won't be able to rewrite to their liking. Well, except in the neocon fantasy world they're living in.

They have their very own accounting of history over there.

 

[inachu]

All of Dick Cheney predictions were proven as false and yet he says he would do the same thing in a minute all over again.

 

[Nebor]

All of Dick Cheney predictions were proven as false and yet he says he would do the same thing in a minute all over again.

It's called having conviction and being resolute. He's not a flip-flopping democrat. When he makes a decision, he sticks to it.

 

[CitizenKain]

It's called having conviction and being resolute. He's not a flip-flopping democrat. When he makes a decision, he sticks to it.

No, its called being a ignorant piece of shit. He's also a liar, so I can see why someone like you worships him.
Little Nebor, head REMF on anandtech.

 

[Nebor]

No, its called being a ignorant piece of shit. He's also a liar, so I can see why someone like you worships him.
Little Nebor, head REMF on anandtech.

Thrice deployed combat arms officer. Try again chief.

 

[davmat787]

I'm laughing at all of the bush admin officials who created or justified torture who are going on tv now to try and clear their names. Their arguments basically boil down to: 9/11 was scary and we put aside all of our American values and principals and ignored the law and treaties and did what we had to do because, we were scared. I don't know about you but that's a pretty piss poor excuse, then again I'm not some principal ignoring pussy that's scared of other people who aren't like me.

I wonder who will buy the shit they are selling?

 

[Bowfinger]

All of Dick Cheney predictions were proven as false and yet he says he would do the same thing in a minute all over again.

Not exactly. One prediction was right on the money...literally. Cheney predicted starting a phony war would be immensely profitable for him and his buddies, and he was right. That's the prediction that really mattered to them.

 

[ivwshane]

It's called having conviction and being resolute. He's not a flip-flopping democrat. When he makes a decision, he sticks to it.

Yep! And he sure as shit won't be changing his mind no matter what the facts are!

 

[Jhhnn]

It's called having conviction and being resolute. He's not a flip-flopping democrat. When he makes a decision, he sticks to it.

You mean "I never said that" Dick Cheney, right?

Your defense of the man reminds me of the admirational comment about Rick Perry- "It takes Balls to execute an innocent man!"

Funny how it's all about "values" until it's time to examine your own, huh?

 

[fskimospy]

It's called having conviction and being resolute. He's not a flip-flopping democrat. When he makes a decision, he sticks to it.

Sticking to a position after you've found out it's wrong is more often called "being stupid".

 

[moonbogg]

LOL

 

[pcgeek11]

In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA's overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk.

Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said.

"The briefer was specifically asked if the methods were tough enough," said a U.S. official who witnessed the exchange.

They are all guilty and knew about it before the fact. Damn bunch of hypocrites.

 

[Nebor]

Sticking to a position after you've found out it's wrong is more often called "being stupid".

Obviously not many of you remember Colbert's work at the 2006 white house correspondents dinner.

The greatest thing about this man is he's steady. You know where he stands. He believes the same thing Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened Tuesday. Events can change; this man's beliefs never will.

 

[Victorian Gray]

You mean "I never said that" Dick Cheney, right?

Your defense of the man reminds me of the admirational comment about Rick Perry- "It takes Balls to execute an innocent man!"

Funny how it's all about "values" until it's time to examine your own, huh?

Given your own inability to acknowledge the culpability of the present administration as regards issues like rendition and extrajudicial assassination (including American citizens) that's more than a touch, um, damn, what's that word again?

 

[Angry Irishman]

This is the liberals version of Benghazi controversy.