CIA Torture Report Set to Go Nuclear

[GarfieldtheCat]

Weigh against the potential for lives to be lost based on disclosure.
How well redacted will the document be - putting anything in the hands of Congress i(in general) will ensure that it gets leaked for political gain.

I think the whole world knows that the US broke the law and tortured people after 9/11. At least we will get the facts, or at least some of the facts.

The worst part? No one will see any punishment for it. That would stop future governments from doing it. As it is, everyone sees that they can get away with it. That's the worst part.

 

[cabri]

I think the whole world knows that the US broke the law and tortured people after 9/11. At least we will get the facts, or at least some of the facts.

The worst part? No one will see any punishment for it. That would stop future governments from doing it. As it is, everyone sees that they can get away with it. That's the worst part.

And the same thing has happened in every conflict; when at war, rules get bent.

If you choose to go after one, go after all.
On ALL sides

 

[Nebor]

I think the whole world knows that the US broke the law and tortured people after 9/11. At least we will get the facts, or at least some of the facts.

The worst part? No one will see any punishment for it. That would stop future governments from doing it. As it is, everyone sees that they can get away with it. That's the worst part.

I don't understand how anyone can be so naive. We've been interring civilians and torturing the enemy since the revolutionary war and through today. Punishing a bag-man won't end the practice.

 

[IronWing]

I don't understand how anyone can be so naive. We've been interring civilians and torturing the enemy since the revolutionary war and through today. Punishing a bag-man won't end the practice.

Hanging a former President might send a sufficiently strong message.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

I don't understand how anyone can be so naive. We've been interring civilians and torturing the enemy since the revolutionary war and through today. Punishing a bag-man won't end the practice.

Punishing those that gave the orders (yeah, you are we kidding?) would send a strong message. It'll never happen.

Look Abu Ghraib...bunch of lowly MP's were hung out to dry and no senior people got charged.

 

[fskimospy]

This should never be released. It's Top Secret for a reason. By definition: "containing or being information whose unauthorized disclosure could result in exceptionally grave danger to the nation."

Whether it contains anything particularly heinous or not, imams across the middle east will spin it to rile their illiterate followers into rioting.

Two things:

1. This would not be an unauthorized disclosure.

2. It's not classified. It is a declassified executive summary. Guess that settles that, huh.

I find it funny that people think that the problem isn't torturing people, it's letting people know that we tortured them. Guess what, they already know. If getting people riled up is the issue, maybe we should stop illegally torturing people.

Also, as someone who handled an enormous amount of classified material I found it frequently hilarious what merited top secret and secret classification. The system is so insanely abused.

 

[WelshBloke]

Whether it contains anything particularly heinous or not, imams across the middle east will spin it to rile their illiterate followers into rioting.

Well its not like they are preaching love and flowers about the West anyway. They probably have a better idea of what's going on than the average Western civilian.

 

[Jhhnn]

I don't understand how anyone can be so naive. We've been interring civilians and torturing the enemy since the revolutionary war and through today. Punishing a bag-man won't end the practice.

And the only reason it's not rampant at home & abroad is because people of conscience stand against it, then and now.

It's one thing for desperate men in desperate situations to resort to desperate means, entirely another to endorse it from a remote perspective, which is exactly what was done under the Bush Admin. Their only desperation was in getting re-elected to further the goals of the Lootocracy.

 

[Genx87]

I'm honestly surprised we are going to publish our dirty secrets. Maybe there is hope for this country. But sadly I imagine the avg citizen will complain this hurts Murrica. And who cares because we only tortured Muslims.

If we are putting marine teams on alert. I suspect it will be very bad.

 

[HTFOff]

How much of an ill informed boob must you be to think this information is new? It's nothing more than a parting shot by a career nutcase with an agenda who thinks she is above being spied upon, and is about to loose her position on the senate intelligence committee.

Also, if you think water boarding is "like totally zomfg tot's mcgoats like the worst atrocity like ever, like" - where do you rank being blown in to a thousand meat chunks via hellfire?

Because that's happened to plenty of innocents all in the name of fighting terror.

Just wondering, guys.

 

[Nebor]

Hanging a former President might send a sufficiently strong message.

Good idea. It worked great in Iraq. There are definitely no more secret police, religious persecution, torture prisons or systemic corruption after we hung Saddam.

 

[Nebor]

Two things:

1. This would not be an unauthorized disclosure.

2. It's not classified. It is a declassified executive summary. Guess that settles that, huh.

I find it funny that people think that the problem isn't torturing people, it's letting people know that we tortured them. Guess what, they already know. If getting people riled up is the issue, maybe we should stop illegally torturing people.

Also, as someone who handled an enormous amount of classified material I found it frequently hilarious what merited top secret and secret classification. The system is so insanely abused.

Everything operational is classified now in an effort to stymie FOIA requests. Tons of non-operational stuff too.

I'd rather deal with people getting riled up than live in a world where we don't torture bad guys.

 

[Bitek]

Weigh against the potential for lives to be lost based on disclosure.
How well redacted will the document be - putting anything in the hands of Congress i(in general) will ensure that it gets leaked for political gain.

Well its not like they are preaching love and flowers about the West anyway. They probably have a better idea of what's going on than the average Western civilian.

Seriously. More than anything this report will validate what everyone knows, Bush and co were kidnapping and torturing whomever they felt they needed to. I'm sure the ME will be shocked

People who are afraid of overly extended govt power and imperial presidencies should want accountability for their acts. Knowing the truth is the lowest hurdle for this.

 

[Jhhnn]

Everything operational is classified now in an effort to stymie FOIA requests. Tons of non-operational stuff too.

I'd rather deal with people getting riled up than live in a world where we don't torture bad guys.

And you figure out who the bad guys are by torturing them, right?

Well, at least when they ship 'em to you on the other side of the world- in shackles, orange jumpsuits & bags over their heads. Hundreds of 'em, with Terrorist label attached.

Or maybe it never was about intelligence gathering at all but rather pandering to fear & bloodlust at home with a big show of being Tough On Terror!

It apparently worked a helluva lot better for that than for anything else.

 

[Victorian Gray]

And you figure out who the bad guys are by torturing them, right?

Well, at least when they ship 'em to you on the other side of the world- in shackles, orange jumpsuits & bags over their heads. Hundreds of 'em, with Terrorist label attached.

Or maybe it never was about intelligence gathering at all but rather pandering to fear & bloodlust at home with a big show of being Tough On Terror!

It apparently worked a helluva lot better for that than for anything else.

Neither party has clean hands. Obama certainly never stopped the practice of 'extraordinary renditions', for example, and expanded extrajudicial assassinations.

 

[Blanky]

The problem is a lot of America still thinks torture is okay because. And yet others will be so stupid as to say "Well, it's water under the bridge."

Ultimately, this is America. If you expect a scandal to core out a bunch of high level fucks who probably deserve to be in prison, you're in the wrong country.

 

[fskimospy]

Everything operational is classified now in an effort to stymie FOIA requests. Tons of non-operational stuff too.

I'd rather deal with people getting riled up than live in a world where we don't torture bad guys.

Sounds like sad times for you then. things like this will likely lead to future US leadership being more reluctant to torture people.

I think if we were really smart we would go after the lawyers. Ruin the careers and disbar the people who made the legal opinions that authorized it and you suddenly have trouble finding lawyers to write those opinions. Without legal cover and the threat of going to jail, you suddenly have fewer people in the field willing to do it.

That's the way to go about it, attack the foundation. Sometimes security services get carried away and they need to be slapped back into their place, you know?

 

[z1ggy]

Team americcaaaaaa... ..... ... Fuck yeahhh!!!!

 

[jhbball]

You seem very angry about something that happened so long ago.

But I get it. Obama's tyranny is OK because you hate Reagan. American lives lost because of Obama's tyranny are just because you hate Reagan.

Speaking of dumb fucks. It's rudeguy!

 

[inachu]

Oh but wait I stand at my desk 8 hours a day so how can standing be torture?

Gullible naive people think this is ok.

 

[rudeguy]

Speaking of dumb fucks. It's rudeguy!

/me waives hi!


I love threads like this.

"Ohh...they are going to ROAST Bush!"

Report says Bush has clean hands.

"Reagan committed treason!!! Dig him up and burn him at the stake!!!!"

 

[rudder]

What other way should she handle it?

And to be clear, you're arguing the Church Committee was a bad thing?

We are not arguing anything about the Church Committee other than the result of the release of that report degraded the CIA's intelligence gathering ability.

Now we have Diane Feinstein, who signed off on enhanced interrogation techniques, preparing to release a 499 page report (written by democratic staffers) based on a 6,000 page report completed in 2012. And we have a White House on one side who says the support the release of this document yet publicly is warning Americans overseas (in particular members of the diplomatic corps) that there will be backlash from this release.

If it were up to me, I would handle this internally and not make this a political statement. Drag the former heads of the CIA, Attorney generals, etc. into congress and have them answer to these charges. Did the CIA go too far beyond what was authorized? If so, prosecution could be warranted. Do we need to release a propaganda tool to the public in order for this to happen? I say no.

 

[fskimospy]

We are not arguing anything about the Church Committee other than the result of the release of that report degraded the CIA's intelligence gathering ability.

Any restrictions on the intelligence community whatsoever degrades their intelligence gathering ability. That's not really meaningful without knowing the tradeoff.

Now we have Diane Feinstein, who signed off on enhanced interrogation techniques, preparing to release a 499 page report (written by democratic staffers) based on a 6,000 page report completed in 2012. And we have a White House on one side who says the support the release of this document yet publicly is warning Americans overseas (in particular members of the diplomatic corps) that there will be backlash from this release.

I don't find this argument compelling at all. Where were these people worrying about the backlash when we were actually doing the torturing? Nowhere. They were supporting it then, as now.

I find it funny that these people are simultaneously arguing that what the CIA did was the right thing, the legal thing, and something they should be commended for, while simultaneously arguing that if people learn what they did the international condemnation and revulsion will be so extreme that it will lead to riots and death. If what they did was so good and necessary, why the worry?

If it were up to me, I would handle this internally and not make this a political statement. Drag the former heads of the CIA, Attorney generals, etc. into congress and have them answer to these charges. Did the CIA go too far beyond what was authorized? If so, prosecution could be warranted. Do we need to release a propaganda tool to the public in order for this to happen? I say no.

I think its extremely valuable to let Americans know what was done by our services in their name. The biggest reason is that I hope they recoil in horror from it, thus making it harder to do in the future. If it is 'handled internally' there will be few to zero consequences, which would basically equate to a green light to do this again.

 

[lozina]

I'm surprised they would do this, but I am also very glad.

To me transparency in our gov is extremely important, and it's just too damned opaque these days. How can a government be for the people when the people don't know what the fuck it's doing?

 

[Guurn]

It just seems to me that this together will the NSA spying stuff is proof that we have our priorities in the wrong order. It should be 1. Live up to our values 2. Keep us safe.
It is awkward to hear people us the Nuremberg defense in relation to this.