CIA Torture Report Set to Go Nuclear

[rudeguy]

The history of the organizations? Seal Team Six (later renamed DEVGRU around like 1987) and Delta Force were created specifically for anti terrorism and specializing in small areas (boats, compounds, buildings, etc).

It has to do with your post and anti Obama rhetoric in that there is literally only two possibilities of who would be responsible for the Bin Laden raid. Obama releasing this information to the public has so little do with anything and anyone familiar with US military operations and history would already know. The only information Obama gave light to was that it was a sanctioned military operation and not something done by the CIA and one of their teams (which are far more secretive).

Answer the first question dumbass

 

[IronWing]

Should we start listing all the things Obama "wasn't aware of"?

Its a lot longer than Contra.

Go for it. Start with treason. That's where Reagan went with Iran-Contra.

 

[Fern]

I'm 100% in favor of this. To me this is like the leaks that Snowden did related to the NSA's warrantless spying.
-snip-

It's nothing like it.

The so-called torture was known to exist. It's been discontinued.

Domestic spying was not known until Snowden. It's still going on.

If the torture report revealed an unknown program that was ongoing I'd agree. But, AFAIK, it's not.

Fern

 

[Fern]

Hey, if you want to be part of the pro-war-crime-coverup camp that's your business. At least you own it!

It's not a cover up if it's not released to the entire world.

If the Senate (or Congress) has been able to investigate it, it has not been covered up.

Fern

 

[ivwshane]

The report should be released for all to see and we should suffer the consequences of doing such illegal acts. Maybe then Americans will wake the fuck up and stop electing idiots like bush, Cheney and all the people under their administration.


Lol! At the bush apologist in this thread though. They have zero morals or principals.

 

[fskimospy]

It's nothing like it.

The so-called torture was known to exist. It's been discontinued.

Domestic spying was not known until Snowden. It's still going on.

If the torture report revealed an unknown program that was ongoing I'd agree. But, AFAIK, it's not.

Fern

So you're saying if the government did a bunch of illegal stuff in the past but you're pretty sure they've stopped doing it then we should just pretend it never happened?

Domestic spying was most certainly known before Snowden, btw.

There are no free passes on war crimes. Torture is a war crime. If we engaged in that we all should demand to know who did it, who authorized it, and what they did. Frankly, in addition I think people like John Yoo who enabled it should at a minimum be disbarred, but possibly prosecuted as well.

 

[fskimospy]

It's not a cover up if it's not released to the entire world.

If the Senate (or Congress) has been able to investigate it, it has not been covered up.

Fern

So if two branches of government cover something up together, then it's suddenly not a cover-up.

That seems like a pretty ridiculous standard.

 

[etrigan420]

It's nothing like it.

The so-called torture was known to exist. It's been discontinued.

Domestic spying was not known until Snowden. It's still going on.

If the torture report revealed an unknown program that was ongoing I'd agree. But, AFAIK, it's not.

Fern

It's not a cover up if it's not released to the entire world.

If the Senate (or Congress) has been able to investigate it, it has not been covered up.

Fern

Congress knew about domestic spying long before Snowden...

Care to twist your logic further?

 

[cabri]

Bullshit. This reprot should be as much about the conduct of Bush's Iraq adventure as about the hunt for Al Quaeda. The country was not in a panic. Bush and his cronies entered into a war of convenience, a war crime, and then authorized additional war crimes in the execution of that war. If we are to ever again become a nation of laws, Bush and his goons need to face trial. And for that to happen, the truth needs to come out.

The country was in a panic - the air transportation system was shut down, military on high alert.

Politicians approved the Patriot Act based on feedback from the people.
Iraq was a war of convenience and payback.

If you feel that Afghanistan was a war of convenience, why?
Should AQ been allowed to operate freely without consequences? We saw how much of a dent Clinton's actions made.

If you want to go after Bush & co, also go after the people that authorized Bush's actions, including the American public.

Then you can also go after Obama for also approving actions both before and after his presidency.

 

[Fern]

Congress knew about domestic spying long before Snowden...

Care to twist your logic further?

Congress knew?

According to them they didn't.

Fern

 

[IronWing]

The country was in a panic - the air transportation system was shut down, military on high alert.

Politicians approved the Patriot Act based on feedback from the people.
Iraq was a war of convenience and payback.

If you feel that Afghanistan was a war of convenience, why?
Should AQ been allowed to operate freely without consequences? We saw how much of a dent Clinton's actions made.

If you want to go after Bush & co, also go after the people that authorized Bush's actions, including the American public.

Then you can also go after Obama for also approving actions both before and after his presidency.

Fair enough. Until we are prepared to prosecute our own war criminals we will have little standing to prosecute others.

Air space was shut down for two days. When did the torture take place? Oh, that's right, we don't know because the politicians are too craven to look in the box. I can agree that politicians were in a panic to look tough in the days following 9/11, a panic exploited by Bush to get the (illegal) powers he wanted; Bush's version of the Reichstag fire.

 

[smackababy]

Answer the first question dumbass

How do I know? I read the pamphlet for the Seals? Is this a real question? Read the history of the organizations and see what they were created, and still used, for. The operations might have expanded somewhat, but they are still the two military counter terrorism teams.

 

[fskimospy]

Congress knew?

According to them they didn't.

Fern

What exact part of his disclosures are you saying Congress didn't know about? There were some aspects that appeared to be new information to them, but relevant members on the intelligence committees were most certainly aware of the NSA's warrantless surveillance programs before his leaks.

 

[thraashman]

Should we start listing all the things Obama "wasn't aware of"?

Its a lot longer than Contra.

Yes because things like the IRS giving extra scrutiny to partisan groups is so much like COMMITTING FUCKING TREASON BY SELLING WEAPONS TO IRAN AND FUNNELING THAT MONEY TO ILLEGAL CONTRAS IN CENTRAL AMERICA!

You do realize that probably no President in history has done anything even close to as impeachable and executable as Iran Contra. It was fucking treason and Reagan absolutely should have been impeached, tried in court, and if (when) found guilty, executed.

 

[rudeguy]

Yes because things like the IRS giving extra scrutiny to partisan groups is so much like COMMITTING FUCKING TREASON BY SELLING WEAPONS TO IRAN AND FUNNELING THAT MONEY TO ILLEGAL CONTRAS IN CENTRAL AMERICA!

You do realize that probably no President in history has done anything even close to as impeachable and executable as Iran Contra. It was fucking treason and Reagan absolutely should have been impeached, tried in court, and if (when) found guilty, executed.

You seem very angry about something that happened so long ago.

But I get it. Obama's tyranny is OK because you hate Reagan. American lives lost because of Obama's tyranny are just because you hate Reagan.

 

[rudeguy]

How do I know? I read the pamphlet for the Seals? Is this a real question? Read the history of the organizations and see what they were created, and still used, for. The operations might have expanded somewhat, but they are still the two military counter terrorism teams.

Can you please just answer the question?

 

[IronWing]

You seem very angry about something that happened so long ago.

In the absence of justice, the ghosts won't sleep.

 

[First]

Can you please just answer the question?

Damn you're slow.

 

[Fern]

What exact part of his disclosures are you saying Congress didn't know about? There were some aspects that appeared to be new information to them, but relevant members on the intelligence committees were most certainly aware of the NSA's warrantless surveillance programs before his leaks.

As to your last remark, I don't think we can know that.

Mostly I was thinking about Sensenbrenner's remarks. He was the primary author of the Patriot act.

Looks like Wyden has expressed doubts that the Senate Intel Committee knows everything.

And it looks like the Senate Intel Committee recently began an investigation to ensure that they are informed.

Here's an article by a retired intel officer. TIFWIW: http://fortunascorner.com/2014/10/10/snowdens-revenge-congress-scouring-every-u-s-spy-program/

Here's another. I'm not familiar with this site either: http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/11/03/384676/congress-unaware-of-scope-of-nsa-spying/

Fern

 

[kage69]

You know the people who don't want it released would probably be climbing over each other to release it had it been done by the Obama administration.

Given what we saw way too many times with that GOP goatfuck known as Benghazi, regrettably yes, I think you are 100% correct there.

Party before country, it's the grand ol way.

 

[fskimospy]

As to your last remark, I don't think we can know that.

Mostly I was thinking about Sensenbrenner's remarks. He was the primary author of the Patriot act.

Looks like Wyden has expressed doubts that the Senate Intel Committee knows everything.

And it looks like the Senate Intel Committee recently began an investigation to ensure that they are informed.

Here's an article by a retired intel officer. TIFWIW: http://fortunascorner.com/2014/10/10/snowdens-revenge-congress-scouring-every-u-s-spy-program/

Here's another. I'm not familiar with this site either: http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/11/03/384676/congress-unaware-of-scope-of-nsa-spying/

Fern

It certainly seems possible that the intelligence committees may not have the full story. Doesn't change the fact that they were aware of the programs before. At least they certainly gave no indication that they were not aware and have defended the legality of them.

 

[Nebor]

This should never be released. It's Top Secret for a reason. By definition: "containing or being information whose unauthorized disclosure could result in exceptionally grave danger to the nation."

Whether it contains anything particularly heinous or not, imams across the middle east will spin it to rile their illiterate followers into rioting.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

This is a good thing...amazing how people want to cover up crimes we commit as a country.

I guess you all are OK with government censorship? Only release .gov approved propaganda?

 

[Jhhnn]

High horse and clean hands.

20/20 hindsight
The country was in a panic, including the political leaders (both sides) along with some of the world.
Information was needed to understand the scope of the threat and attempt to neutralize it.

As we have seen, the opponents have no compulsion toward the war crimes; but they are not held accountable for such.

Oh, please. As usual, cooler heads prevailed, and there were some very cool heads in the Bush Admin & among their political allies. They realized that it was the greatest political windfall since Pearl Harbor.

They promoted panic, exploited it quite ruthlessly against all enemies, foreign and domestic. They were highly successful in doing so, something all too many people would like to forget.

The report grants the principals in the Admin plausible deniability & fills in the details wrt torture. Anybody who believes that believes it because they want to. It flies in the face of other compelling evidence-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_Memos

There's no way that Yoo was allowed to create such policy. He was told to aid in implementing it. He did.

It's a small thing compared to the carnage in the invasion of Iraq. Like Gitmo, it's also an artifact of their utterly unscrupulous ways in nearly all things.

 

[cabri]

This is a good thing...amazing how people want to cover up crimes we commit as a country.

I guess you all are OK with government censorship? Only release .gov approved propaganda?

Weigh against the potential for lives to be lost based on disclosure.
How well redacted will the document be - putting anything in the hands of Congress i(in general) will ensure that it gets leaked for political gain.