Christian Folk.. Sup With This?

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matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
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Weren't the slaves that are alluded to in the Bible people who sold themselves into slavery?

I always thought the bible didn't condone slavery:

"Exodus 21:16: He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death."
 
wuliheron

wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
matt0611 said:
Weren't the slaves that are alluded to in the Bible people who sold themselves into slavery?

I always thought the bible didn't condone slavery:

"Exodus 21:16: He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death."
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That's kidnapping, not slavery. You don't kidnap slaves, you capture them, and they aren't people, they're subhuman savages. According to the old testament the Jews are the chosen people and everyone else is a subhuman savage.
 
glenn1

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
MrEgo said:
I don't think it's irrational at all to think that these explanations are way over the top. If this was a court of law, your case would get thrown out immediately. I know this isn't a court of law, and it's all based on faith. Fine. I can understand if the answers to my questions occasionally depends on your interpretation, but every single thing in question has some far-fetched version of what it's supposed to mean.

I see what you're saying. I see your explanations of the questions I have. I just think that if these explanations require you to come up with an interpretation that bends the words so much, then you have to seriously start wondering why that is. Don't you ever wonder why these interpretations are rarely what your initial reaction is after you read it? I only listed 3 verses from the Bible, but I could probably go on and on with verses that just make me say "wtf!?"

I didn't start this thread by asking rhetorical questions, but it did confirm what I suspected. I suspected there was no simple answer for why the Bible says what it says, other than it is what is. Now, I guess I shouldn't rely on an internet forum to reinforce my beliefs, but I figured someone would have chipped in by now with an answer that many of us would read and think "yeah, that DOES make sense."
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That's fine, then don't believe, it doesn't harm those who do one whit. You must have a lot of free time on your hands to be asking so many questions about something you don't believe in.
 
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MrEgo

Senior member
Jan 17, 2003
874
0
76
glenn1 said:
That's fine, then don't believe, it doesn't harm those who do one whit. You must have a lot of free time on your hands to be asking so many questions about something you don't believe in.
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I've probably taken a total of 10 minutes to type out my replies to this thread.. but I don't really see how my free time relates to anything we're discussing. I'm not out drinking tonight, I'm finishing up a project for one of my online classes. Where are we going with this exactly?

You sound a little defensive. Maybe I'm mistaken. I don't think I'm being hard headed about this. I just don't think a valid argument has been made in favor of the Bible. I know it's not your job to convince someone who probably already has his mind made up, so it's no skin off your back, but I really don't think my preconceived notions are getting in the way of making sense out of your explanations.
 
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Zebo

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Some good philosophy in the bible just stay away from old testament and Timothy 1&2 and you'll function in todays society without going to prison. Koran I'd stay 50% away from too. Take the good dump the insane ravings of lunatics.
 
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wuliheron

wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
Zebo said:
Some good philosophy in the bible just stay away from old testament and Timothy 1&2 and you'll function in todays society without going to prison. Koran I'd stay 50% away from too. Take the good dump the insane ravings of lunatics.
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Or, just amass a shit load of money and then you can push whatever agenda you want! Its worked for all kinds of people from Martin Luther, Jim Baker, and Pat Robinson to Osama Bin Laden.
 
shira

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
glenn1 said:
I'm not a Bible literalist, but I don't think that one needs to be to answer this. Short answer is that Jesus has made some of the Old Testament laws unnecessary - if you're obeying Christ's guidance to "love others as you love yourself" that would sorta exclude you from beating your slave to death. Or if you prefer a more legalistic rationale, as per Romans 10:4....

For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God.
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So I take it that all of the biblical passages that Christians cite to justify their homophobia are null and void for the same reason.

Edit: And if not, does that mean that the Christian claim that "morality comes from God" reduces to "morality comes from whichever parts of the bible Christians choose to follow?"
 
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wuliheron

wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
shira said:
So I take it that all of the biblical passages that Christians cite to justify their homophobia are null and void for the same reason.

Edit: And if not, does that mean that the Christian claim that "morality comes from God" reduces to "morality comes from whichever parts of the bible Christians choose to follow?"
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That's just silly. Of course morality comes from God and he makes sure to give the power to enforce morality to the wealthy and powerful. That's why the Gnostics became extinct and the liberal Christians are always complaining because God just doesn't favor them with wealthy and powerful people! God is obviously on our side or we wouldn't rule the world.
 
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matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
shira said:
So I take it that all of the biblical passages that Christians cite to justify their homophobia are null and void for the same reason.

Edit: And if not, does that mean that the Christian claim that "morality comes from God" reduces to "morality comes from whichever parts of the bible Christians choose to follow?"
Click to expand...

Homosexuality was also spoken against in the NT iirc. So no, don't think so.
 
S

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,002
126
Infohawk said:
My understanding is that Christians see the Old Testament as background. Jesus came to Earth to and changed the game in the New Testament. So pointing out bad stuff in the Old Testament doesn't really accomplish anything.

As for the second quote it's mostly protestants that bend over backwards to make this mean something else. I think it's pretty clear Jesus was a hippie.
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But aren't the Old Testament teachings still God's laws? God seems like kind of a dick when you read the Old Testament.
 
MagnusTheBrewer

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,122
1,594
126
SlowSpyder said:
But aren't the Old Testament teachings still God's laws? God seems like kind of a dick when you read the Old Testament.
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There's this concept called the Trinity. God the father, son and, holy spirit. Each is a different facet of God. God (the father) did not want to give the Israelites a set of laws because he knew humans were incapable of following them. People have always and will always seek to bargain with God. The gift of free will comes with a huge penalty, having to accept the evil that is inherent in our nature. We strive to follow Gods word, not in the hopes of influencing God but, because we wish to be better than we are.
 
sandorski

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,783
6,341
126
MagnusTheBrewer said:
There's this concept called the Trinity. God the father, son and, holy spirit. Each is a different facet of God. God (the father) did not want to give the Israelites a set of laws because he knew humans were incapable of following them. People have always and will always seek to bargain with God. The gift of free will comes with a huge penalty, having to accept the evil that is inherent in our nature. We strive to follow Gods word, not in the hopes of influencing God but, because we wish to be better than we are.
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Where does this shit come from? Certainly not the Bible.
 
wuliheron

wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
Infohawk said:
From what I've heard from Christians, God changed his deal with humans in the New Testament.
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Exactly, he introduced a kinder-gentler covenant which Christians have been killing each other and everybody else over ever since.
 
Elfear

Elfear

Diamond Member
May 30, 2004
7,165
824
126
MrEgo said:
I don't think it's irrational at all to think that these explanations are way over the top. If this was a court of law, your case would get thrown out immediately. I know this isn't a court of law, and it's all based on faith. Fine. I can understand if the answers to my questions occasionally depends on your interpretation, but every single thing in question has some far-fetched version of what it's supposed to mean.

I see what you're saying. I see your explanations of the questions I have. I just think that if these explanations require you to come up with an interpretation that bends the words so much, then you have to seriously start wondering why that is. Don't you ever wonder why these interpretations are rarely what your initial reaction is after you read it? I only listed 3 verses from the Bible, but I could probably go on and on with verses that just make me say "wtf!?"

I didn't start this thread by asking rhetorical questions, but it did confirm what I suspected. I suspected there was no simple answer for why the Bible says what it says, other than it is what is. Now, I guess I shouldn't rely on an internet forum to reinforce my beliefs, but I figured someone would have chipped in by now with an answer that many of us would read and think "yeah, that DOES make sense."
Click to expand...

Could it be that the latest portions of the Bible were written 2000yrs ago? Do you think society, culture, everyday life, etc. could have changed in two millenia?

Aspects of society people took for granted so long ago are foreign to people today. There has to be some context when explaining passages from a book written in that era. Maybe that's why the explanations can be somewhat long-winded. I suspect it will be the same 2000yrs from now when people are trying to grasp why "The Office" is funny or what the heck "pig in a poke" means.
 
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brandonb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2006
3,731
2
0
MrEgo said:
You posted a custom-built computer in your signature, but what have you done for starving families in Africa? You are rich by their standards. There are so many loopholes in that argument.

I guess I just don't understand how so many people are so accepting of these complex explanations EVERY single time. Occam's razor never seems to apply when it comes to the Bible... ever. It's always a case of A) the logical answer or B) the Biblical answer... and B is ALWAYS 1000x longer than A.

I know I'm referring to just the Bible in this thread, but I also don't come in contact with enough Muslims or Buddhists to really hear what they have to say.
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Mr. Ego,

What I have done for Africa is not important. If I gave all my money to Africa, or kept all of it for myself has no bearing to this discussion. Also since you are asking the question, it sounds like you haven't even grasp the point I made.

This isn't about me, it's about the question you asked in your OP... Separating a rich man from his money is hard... What we have on earth means nothing.
 
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Matt1970

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Wow, you guys are finding contardictions in stuff written by a bunch of different people over 2000 years ago. Facinating.
 
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