Christian Folk.. Sup With This?

[rudeguy]

I see what you're saying. Times do change. However, if a religion is going to base their teachings off of a book that supports slavery, I'm not ok with that religion. If "God" thinks that slavery is ok, then I'm not cool with God. If God didn't think it was ok, then that book is not the word of God.

So then you aren't looking for insight, you are just trolling?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

So then you aren't looking for insight, you are just trolling?

He obviously doesn't care about understanding...he just wants to validate his beliefs.

 

[sandorski]

So then you aren't looking for insight, you are just trolling?

No, he's right. Obviously the alleged "god" didn't give a shit about Slavery, but Homosexuality was offensive. Our Morals are superior to this fictional beings Morals. To look up to it, is to actually look down.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

No, he's right. Obviously the alleged "god" didn't give a shit about Slavery, but Homosexuality was offensive. Our Morals are superior to this fictional beings Morals. To look up to it, is to actually look down.

That's odd...if God didn't give a shit about slavery why did Polycarp and Ignatius free their slaves, why did Christians give fugitive slaves asylum, why did Christians regularly collect money and go to the slave markets to buy slaves and set them free immediately afterwards, why did Constantine give bishops the authority to free slaves and forbid separation of families, and why did Cyprian condemn slavery as incompatible with Christianity and say:

"You, man of a day, expect from your slave obedience. Is he less a man than you? By birth he is your equal. He is endowed with the same organs, with the same reasoning soul, called to the same hopes, subject to the same laws of life in this and in the world to come. You subject him to your dominion. If he, as a man, disregard or forget your claim, what miseries you heap upon him. Impious master, pitiless despot! You spare neither blows nor whips, nor privations; you chastise him with hunger and thirst, you load him with chains, you incarcerate him within black walls; miserable man! While you thus maintain your despotism over a man, you are not willing to recognize the Master and Lord of all men."
​

Consider this...perhaps you don't have a clue about what God gives a shit about...or really care for that matter.

 

[ericlp]

If a person was learned enough to read/write back then, they were very unlikely to be an idiot. Uncivilized? A relative term. Perhaps uncivilized compared to most modern countries, but a civilization a thousand years from now (and likely a lot sooner) would probably consider us barbaric. Think Star Trek.

Take it seriously, I see no reason not to. But take it literally? Now that requires idiocy.

Actually ya know I have actually read the bible and does have some good sides and quotes to it. I can see back in the day when it made more sense.

Example... I can't quote the entire text to a T and too lazy to look it up, but when they say that god put resources on the planet for man to consume. Well that's fine in dandy when there just a million or so people on this earth. But now that there is ls billions of people that statement "TODAY" is laughable.

I'd say 3/4's of the book can not be taken seriously. Tho, that's just my take. Sad part is once you swallow the hook, Believe in cool aid you gotta take the WHOLE medicine good with the bad. I mean hey, you don't want to go to hell right? As in order to believe in the bible you gotta believe in Hell and Satin too! I prefer not to believe in such negativity so... Thankfully I woke up years ago. As if you had no negative side of religion then who the hell would you blame all the negative shit going on? Gotta have the ying and the yang or the system doesn't work.

 

[sandorski]

That's odd...if God didn't give a shit about slavery why did Polycarp and Ignatius free their slaves, why did Christians give fugitive slaves asylum, why did Christians regularly collect money and go to the slave markets to buy slaves and set them free immediately afterwards, why did Constantine gives bishops the authority to free slaves and forbid separation of families, and why did Cyprian condemn slavery as incompatible with Christianity and say:

"You, man of a day, expect from your slave obedience. Is he less a man than you? By birth he is your equal. He is endowed with the same organs, with the same reasoning soul, called to the same hopes, subject to the same laws of life in this and in the world to come. You subject him to your dominion. If he, as a man, disregard or forget your claim, what miseries you heap upon him. Impious master, pitiless despot! You spare neither blows nor whips, nor privations; you chastise him with hunger and thirst, you load him with chains, you incarcerate him within black walls; miserable man! While you thus maintain your despotism over a man, you are not willing to recognize the Master and Lord of all men."
​

Consider this...perhaps you don't have a clue about what God gives a shit about...or really care for that matter.

Uh, they were not "God". Srsly dude, supposedly "God" gave Israel a Moral Code, yet somehow forgot to mention "Slavery is bad, mmmk?". It wasn't until much later that some people started saying that. God was all, "Whatever". I think it's plain as day, but go ahead and be the apologist of what should be obvious.

 

[sandorski]

Actually ya know I have actually read the bible and does have some good sides and quotes to it. I can see back in the day when it made more sense.

Example... I can't quote the entire text to a T and too lazy to look it up, but when they say that god put resources on the planet for man to consume. Well that's fine in dandy when there just a million or so people on this earth. But now that there is ls billions of people that statement "TODAY" is laughable.

I'd say 3/4's of the book can not be taken seriously. Tho, that's just my take. Sad part is once you swallow the hook, Believe in cool aid you gotta take the WHOLE medicine good with the bad. I mean hey, you don't want to go to hell right? As in order to believe in the bible you gotta believe in Hell and Satin too! I prefer not to believe in such negativity so... Thankfully I woke up years ago. As if you had no negative side of religion then who the hell would you blame all the negative shit going on? Gotta have the ying and the yang or the system doesn't work.

..but not Cotton and Satin, that's an abomination.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Short answer is that Jesus has made some of the Old Testament laws unnecessary

And then that got replaced by a cartoon.

The idea that Friendship is Magic. Perhaps the only force for good greater than Miku.

 

[glenn1]

No, he's right. Obviously the alleged "god" didn't give a shit about Slavery, but Homosexuality was offensive. Our Morals are superior to this fictional beings Morals. To look up to it, is to actually look down.

As you are probably well aware, bias and religious positions against homosexuality are pretty common throughout history and in almost all cultures (see link below). And as with slavery, this was not considered unusual back I the day. As someone already referred to Ephesians, the point wasn't to justify slavery but to highlight the worth and dignity of even a slave to receive God's grace. This idea was just as radical in the day to those hearing it as the idea that gays are fully God's children and loved by him is to some people today who would call themselves christians. However, christianity seems to enjoy a good ability to grow in love over time to include those formerly shunned. I look forward to the time when all denominations fully accept gays instead of treating them as excluding them as "unclean" (like the lepers of Jesus's time) or objects of pity at best. As I stated earlier, the heart of christianity is loving others, which means that one cannot claim to be a christian while bashing gays at the same time. Just because christians as people sometimes do not live up to the ideals they claim to profess that does not make one bit of difference to the truth about God or religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_homosexuality

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Uh, they were not "God"..

Huh? What an odd comment. Of course they weren't God...their actions were influenced by God and New Testament revelation.

Srsly dude, supposedly "God" gave Israel a Moral Code, yet somehow forgot to mention "Slavery is bad, mmmk?". It wasn't until much later that some people started saying that. God was all, "Whatever". I think it's plain as day, but go ahead and be the apologist of what should be obvious.

Seriously...if you really want to know something about the subject, you should take some classes or read some books that will help you understand. Ignorance is one thing...but willful ignorance is quite another....this should be obvious.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Do people who believe in Zeus shape public policy where you live?

Does it matter? if you want to shape public policy get off your fat ass and do so.....

 

[JEDIYoda]

That doesn't help. That just means they can beat their slave to death on the first day and be fine.

No it means your responding just like the village idiot would instead of reading what was said!!

Somebody with a smart ass remark on a subject such as this just shows the world they have no clue.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Uh, they were not "God". Srsly dude, supposedly "God" gave Israel a Moral Code, yet somehow forgot to mention "Slavery is bad, mmmk?". It wasn't until much later that some people started saying that. God was all, "Whatever". I think it's plain as day, but go ahead and be the apologist of what should be obvious.

<-- another person trying to validate something their willful ignorance!!

 

[dainthomas]

..but not Cotton and Satin, that's an abomination.

You, sir, win the thread. :thumbsup:

 

[DominionSeraph]

Somebody with a smart ass remark on a subject such as this just shows the world they have no clue.

Haven't talked to many of the "Saved," have you?
They're pretty fucking nuts.

 

[MrEgo]

So then you aren't looking for insight, you are just trolling?

Not trolling. Are these not legitimate questions? These are verses from the Old and New Testament. These are not things that I made up or things that I'm taking out of context.

I was seeing if someone had an answer that made sense, but nobody really does. I read these verses and wonder if the faults of the Bible really ARE that obvious, and as it turns out, they probably are.

 

[brandonb]

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Mark 10:25

Not sure of what the confusion is?

Read the surrounding passage. A man walks up to Jesus and asks : "What can I do to enter heaven?" Jesus responds, telling the man to sell everything he has and give it to the poor, as it does not matter what we have on earth, as what we have later is what is important. The man walks away scoffing at the idea.

A Catholic Priest said to me, that we are on a scale (I've said this a few dozen times on this forum already), between selfishness and loving (that is the opposite of selfishness.) A man who hordes wealth is selfish, and is not part of Gods loving image. The only way to enter heaven is to be loving. Jesus is saying as he does throughout his gospel the same type of message over and over. It does not matter what we have on earth, it's what we have in heaven is what matters. Trying to get a rich man to give up his wealth is next to impossible, as if what they have on earth is all that matters.

It's a good point. Who cares if you have a million dollars in the bank when you die? What good will it be when we are dead? Instead give it up, give it to those in need, and be a less selfish person, as that will matter way more in the end.

 

[jonks]

Not sure of what the confusion is?

Read the surrounding passage. A man walks up to Jesus and asks : "What can I do to enter heaven?" Jesus responds, telling the man to sell everything he has and give it to the poor, as it does not matter what we have on earth, as what we have later is what is important. The man walks away scoffing at the idea.

A Catholic Priest said to me, that we are on a scale (I've said this a few dozen times on this forum already), between selfishness and loving (that is the opposite of selfishness.) A man who hordes wealth is selfish, and is not part of Gods loving image. The only way to enter heaven is to be loving. Jesus is saying as he does throughout his gospel the same type of message over and over. It does not matter what we have on earth, it's what we have in heaven is what matters. Trying to get a rich man to give up his wealth is next to impossible, as if what they have on earth is all that matters.

It's a good point. Who cares if you have a million dollars in the bank when you die? What good will it be when we are dead? Instead give it up, give it to those in need, and be a less selfish person, as that will matter way more in the end.

The pope has awesome shoes and a house of gold.

 

[MrEgo]

Not sure of what the confusion is?

Read the surrounding passage. A man walks up to Jesus and asks : "What can I do to enter heaven?" Jesus responds, telling the man to sell everything he has and give it to the poor, as it does not matter what we have on earth, as what we have later is what is important. The man walks away scoffing at the idea.

A Catholic Priest said to me, that we are on a scale (I've said this a few dozen times on this forum already), between selfishness and loving (that is the opposite of selfishness.) A man who hordes wealth is selfish, and is not part of Gods loving image. The only way to enter heaven is to be loving. Jesus is saying as he does throughout his gospel the same type of message over and over. It does not matter what we have on earth, it's what we have in heaven is what matters. Trying to get a rich man to give up his wealth is next to impossible, as if what they have on earth is all that matters.

It's a good point. Who cares if you have a million dollars in the bank when you die? What good will it be when we are dead? Instead give it up, give it to those in need, and be a less selfish person, as that will matter way more in the end.

You posted a custom-built computer in your signature, but what have you done for starving families in Africa? You are rich by their standards. There are so many loopholes in that argument.

I guess I just don't understand how so many people are so accepting of these complex explanations EVERY single time. Occam's razor never seems to apply when it comes to the Bible... ever. It's always a case of A) the logical answer or B) the Biblical answer... and B is ALWAYS 1000x longer than A.

I know I'm referring to just the Bible in this thread, but I also don't come in contact with enough Muslims or Buddhists to really hear what they have to say.

 

[glenn1]

You posted a custom-built computer in your signature, but what have you done for starving families in Africa? You are rich by their standards. There are so many loopholes in that argument.

I guess I just don't understand how so many people are so accepting of these complex explanations EVERY single time. Occam's razor never seems to apply when it comes to the Bible... ever. It's always a case of A) the logical answer or B) the Biblical answer... and B is ALWAYS 1000x longer than A.

I know I'm referring to just the Bible in this thread, but I also don't come in contact with enough Muslims or Buddhists to really hear what they have to say.

You don't understand because you're not even trying to. If you want to scoff at religion that's fine, if you want to ask serious questions of serious religious folks that's fine. If you want to just waste the time of some very patient religious folks attempting to give you a well-thought out answer and then basically ignore what they have to say because you've already closed your mind on the subject, then you really should find a better hobby.

 

[Steeplerot]

serious religious folks

This is lolworthy, is it like being a REALLY big trekkie?

 

[sandorski]

As you are probably well aware, bias and religious positions against homosexuality are pretty common throughout history and in almost all cultures (see link below). And as with slavery, this was not considered unusual back I the day. As someone already referred to Ephesians, the point wasn't to justify slavery but to highlight the worth and dignity of even a slave to receive God's grace. This idea was just as radical in the day to those hearing it as the idea that gays are fully God's children and loved by him is to some people today who would call themselves christians. However, christianity seems to enjoy a good ability to grow in love over time to include those formerly shunned. I look forward to the time when all denominations fully accept gays instead of treating them as excluding them as "unclean" (like the lepers of Jesus's time) or objects of pity at best. As I stated earlier, the heart of christianity is loving others, which means that one cannot claim to be a christian while bashing gays at the same time. Just because christians as people sometimes do not live up to the ideals they claim to profess that does not make one bit of difference to the truth about God or religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_homosexuality

It is entirely Moot as to what was common back in the day. The alleged God is supposedly all Knowing and was handing out instructions to Its' people, yet completely ignored the Immorality of Slavery? Come on.

 

[sandorski]

Huh? What an odd comment. Of course they weren't God...their actions were influenced by God and New Testament revelation.


Seriously...if you really want to know something about the subject, you should take some classes or read some books that will help you understand. Ignorance is one thing...but willful ignorance is quite another....this should be obvious.

How could they have been "influenced by God" when that alleged god said absolutely nothing against Slavery? I'm the one with willful ignorance? I don't think so.

 

[MrEgo]

You don't understand because you're not even trying to. If you want to scoff at religion that's fine, if you want to ask serious questions of serious religious folks that's fine. If you want to just waste the time of some very patient religious folks attempting to give you a well-thought out answer and then basically ignore what they have to say because you've already closed your mind on the subject, then you really should find a better hobby.

I don't think it's irrational at all to think that these explanations are way over the top. If this was a court of law, your case would get thrown out immediately. I know this isn't a court of law, and it's all based on faith. Fine. I can understand if the answers to my questions occasionally depends on your interpretation, but every single thing in question has some far-fetched version of what it's supposed to mean.

I see what you're saying. I see your explanations of the questions I have. I just think that if these explanations require you to come up with an interpretation that bends the words so much, then you have to seriously start wondering why that is. Don't you ever wonder why these interpretations are rarely what your initial reaction is after you read it? I only listed 3 verses from the Bible, but I could probably go on and on with verses that just make me say "wtf!?"

I didn't start this thread by asking rhetorical questions, but it did confirm what I suspected. I suspected there was no simple answer for why the Bible says what it says, other than it is what is. Now, I guess I shouldn't rely on an internet forum to reinforce my beliefs, but I figured someone would have chipped in by now with an answer that many of us would read and think "yeah, that DOES make sense."

 

[OutHouse]

This isn't history or allegory... these are prescriptive excerpts.

do you have some perverse need to continually post in topics that you have absolutely no fricken clue about? congrats on reinforcing your ignorance for us.