Chiropractic Questions

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: DT4K
As I've already pointed out, back pain is the one area where there is real evidence that chiropractic can help.

EDIT:
If chiropractors treat back pain by fixing "misalignment" of the spine, does that mean that primary care practitioners are equally effective at fixing "misalignment" of the spine?

From what I can infer from the few studies I've looked at, some of this pain would resolve itself in a few weeks on its own. That would certainly explain why all these different methods have roughly equal outcomes after a substantial period of time. And, it would explain why the satisfaction level with chiropractic care is higher. However, the patient probably doesn't have the expectation that the pain actually will plague them until the day they die - they want something that's going to make it feel better more quickly. Satisfaction levels were much higher for patients receiving chiropractic care, even in studies where patients were assigned a type of care (rather than choosing the one they preferred.)

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: DT4K

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: DT4K

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: DT4K

Originally posted by: videogames101
Fact: Bones can pinch Nerves
Fact: Aligning those bones relieves the pinch of nerves

Conclusion: Chiropractic care can help many people.

Caveat: Many chiropractors are nutjobs who see modern medicine as evil


(So find a good one)

FACT: Chiropractic is based on the idea that subluxations (misalignments) are the cause of all illness.
FACT: There is no scientific evidence that subluxations even exist.
FACT: There is no scientific evidence that chiropractic is effective for anything other than back pain.

Conclusion: Chiropractors who say they can help you with back pain might be right.
Chiropractors who say they can help you with anything else are probably wrong.
Chiropractors who say your ear infections are caused by misalignment of your spine are absolutely full of crap.

that's a retarded conclusion. you can't say that chiropractors who say they can help you with anything other than back pain are wrong because it isn't true. you could say "may be" wrong, but even then, that would be an incorrect statement, considering how chiropractic care has helped hundreds of thousands of people with various illnesses. just read some of the case studies. look at the research being done on blood pressure and chiropractic.

no one says ear infections are caused by misalignments in the spine. however, the drainage of certain ear infections (ome) can be achieved by chiropractic adjustments so it doesn't progress to aom.

Bullshit.
I'm not surprised that you are trying to defend your scam, but it's still bullshit.
Plenty of chiros suggest that they can prevent ear infections.
And there's no evidence that misalignment is even real and the whole idea of an "adjustment" is complete and total crap. Your spine doesn't need an "adjustment" because it cannot become "misaligned" unless you have an actual injury. And if you have an actual injury, you should probably be seeing a real doctor.

The only ailment, for which there is any actual evidence of benefit from chiropractic is back pain. And that is probably just because the manipulations that are done work in the same way that massage or PT does.

Calling yourself a doctor or a physician is an insult to real doctors.

haha

it's not a scam. it's also not bullshit.
thre is evidence that misalignments are real. you can feel them and you can see the improper coupled motions. for example, say you're trying to wrap a chain around a tree and you fused two or three of those links together. you can still achieve the same goal, but the links adjacent to the fused segments have to compensate by having a greater range of motion between the linkage... the same thing happens in the spine that you can see through measurements on flexion and extension x-rays as well as just feeling to motion in the joints.

you're absolutely wrong about the only evidence for chiropractic care being back pain. i can't blame you, though. you're completely ignorant and refuse to look at any of the research or newer studies that are being done. plus, you don't have a basic understanding of how the body works.

calling medical doctors "real doctors" is an insult to those who can actually treat people with real problems without having to use medications which only treat the symptom of an underlying problem.

now, i appreciate your point of view, but unless you have a question that i can address, you're just threadcrapping and it really isn't getting anyone anywhere.

Your Topic Summary is: "don't like chiropractic? explain why."
I'm explaining why.

I don't like chiropractic for the same reason I don't like Airborne. It's a total scam with no scientific evidence. It's no better than telling people you can cure their cancer by chanting loudly to re-energize their sub-ethereal energy flow.

You are ripping people off by inventing disorders that don't exist and claiming you can cure them.

Biased studies by people with a vested financial interest in continuing the scam are not equal to scientific evidence.

eits,

Provide studies not funded by chiro people showing efficacy of chiropractic care on any illness.

They don't exist. You can claim it is science based, but that doesn't make it so. So the SCIENCE behind it. There are no studies that demonstrate efficacy.

Science is easy. Come up with a hypothesis and test it. If studies confirm your hypothesis then it will be accepted. Chiropractic care cannot met the very simple basis of science.

Chiropractic care is just like homeopathic remedies. They aren't rooted in any science. It is garbage. You have a vested interest in Chiropractic care.

As for my bias? I am a computer scientist with a minor in mathematics. I love science. I read various scientific journals. I know how to read the relevant studies on all sorts of subjects. All the studies point to Chiropractic care being crap. Just like vaccines do not cause autism. Just like homeopathic remedies don't work.

It is all mysticism trying to convince people it is science. You won't find any real scientists that support any of the above.

Above all else, I hate seeing people hurt by something that has no basis in reality. People are hurt by the anti-vaccine nutjobs. People are HURT by the homeopathic nutjobs and people are HURT by chiropractic assholes.

 

[TecHNooB]

Hold on, so if all this chiropractic stuff is bs, what do they teach them in med school?

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

don't like chiropractic? explain why.

It's mostly your fault, if I had to be honest.

This.

I really didn't think to much about chiropractors until eits came around, which cause me to read into it and turn cold to the matter

eits, my opinion of your career has only gone down because of your actions

has anyone's opinion improved?

 

[cheezy321]

Originally posted by: TecHNooB
Hold on, so if all this chiropractic stuff is bs, what do they teach them in med school?

They dont go to a "med school"

 

[nanette1985]

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Just like vaccines do not cause autism. Just like homeopathic remedies don't work.

Ironically, my autistic son gets enormous anxiety relief from homeopathic remedies. I don't believe in it either, but if it helps, I don't care.

There's still a lot of stuff out that we don't understand.

 

[TecHNooB]

Originally posted by: cheezy321

Originally posted by: TecHNooB
Hold on, so if all this chiropractic stuff is bs, what do they teach them in med school?

They dont go to a "med school"

OH! Oh..

I wonder what a class in chiropractic is like. You can't really expect people to sit still when there's no logical progression in what is being taught? Identify the bone/muscle exams? lol

 

[dullard]

My Mom used a chiropracter for years after I helped injure her back. Ultimately, it did nothing other than teach her ways to relax her back. Thousands of dollars down the drain and the problems are still there.

My fiancee and her family loves chiropracters. They use them for everything. But the next day, $60 later, the problems are always still there with the same intensity.

My friend loves his chiropracter. So much that he drives 6 hours round trip to make it there. Of course, he spends about $300 per trip on vitamins that this chiropracter sells. Vitamins that supposedly cure any ailment. Yet, everytime I talk to my friend, he complains of yet another ailment. Surprizingly neither the chiropracter nor the vitamins are fixing or preventing these ailments.

Now, I realize that I've never gone to a chiropracter. So, I don't have first hand experience. But from what I've seen with others, the end result is that a chiropracter is a good massage, a few hours away from pain, and the rest is quackery. If you expect miracles, they'll sell them to you, but you won't get the miracle. If you expect to feel good for a short while, then by all means, do it. It is probably a bit better for you than seeing a massage therapist (and a bit cheaper).

 

[Jeffg010]

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: DT4K

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: DT4K

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: DT4K

Originally posted by: videogames101
Fact: Bones can pinch Nerves
Fact: Aligning those bones relieves the pinch of nerves

Conclusion: Chiropractic care can help many people.

Caveat: Many chiropractors are nutjobs who see modern medicine as evil


(So find a good one)

FACT: Chiropractic is based on the idea that subluxations (misalignments) are the cause of all illness.
FACT: There is no scientific evidence that subluxations even exist.
FACT: There is no scientific evidence that chiropractic is effective for anything other than back pain.

Conclusion: Chiropractors who say they can help you with back pain might be right.
Chiropractors who say they can help you with anything else are probably wrong.
Chiropractors who say your ear infections are caused by misalignment of your spine are absolutely full of crap.

that's a retarded conclusion. you can't say that chiropractors who say they can help you with anything other than back pain are wrong because it isn't true. you could say "may be" wrong, but even then, that would be an incorrect statement, considering how chiropractic care has helped hundreds of thousands of people with various illnesses. just read some of the case studies. look at the research being done on blood pressure and chiropractic.

no one says ear infections are caused by misalignments in the spine. however, the drainage of certain ear infections (ome) can be achieved by chiropractic adjustments so it doesn't progress to aom.

Bullshit.
I'm not surprised that you are trying to defend your scam, but it's still bullshit.
Plenty of chiros suggest that they can prevent ear infections.
And there's no evidence that misalignment is even real and the whole idea of an "adjustment" is complete and total crap. Your spine doesn't need an "adjustment" because it cannot become "misaligned" unless you have an actual injury. And if you have an actual injury, you should probably be seeing a real doctor.

The only ailment, for which there is any actual evidence of benefit from chiropractic is back pain. And that is probably just because the manipulations that are done work in the same way that massage or PT does.

Calling yourself a doctor or a physician is an insult to real doctors.

haha

it's not a scam. it's also not bullshit.
thre is evidence that misalignments are real. you can feel them and you can see the improper coupled motions. for example, say you're trying to wrap a chain around a tree and you fused two or three of those links together. you can still achieve the same goal, but the links adjacent to the fused segments have to compensate by having a greater range of motion between the linkage... the same thing happens in the spine that you can see through measurements on flexion and extension x-rays as well as just feeling to motion in the joints.

you're absolutely wrong about the only evidence for chiropractic care being back pain. i can't blame you, though. you're completely ignorant and refuse to look at any of the research or newer studies that are being done. plus, you don't have a basic understanding of how the body works.

calling medical doctors "real doctors" is an insult to those who can actually treat people with real problems without having to use medications which only treat the symptom of an underlying problem.

now, i appreciate your point of view, but unless you have a question that i can address, you're just threadcrapping and it really isn't getting anyone anywhere.

Your Topic Summary is: "don't like chiropractic? explain why."
I'm explaining why.

I don't like chiropractic for the same reason I don't like Airborne. It's a total scam with no scientific evidence. It's no better than telling people you can cure their cancer by chanting loudly to re-energize their sub-ethereal energy flow.

You are ripping people off by inventing disorders that don't exist and claiming you can cure them.

Biased studies by people with a vested financial interest in continuing the scam are not equal to scientific evidence.

eits,

Provide studies not funded by chiro people showing efficacy of chiropractic care on any illness.

They don't exist. You can claim it is science based, but that doesn't make it so. So the SCIENCE behind it. There are no studies that demonstrate efficacy.

Science is easy. Come up with a hypothesis and test it. If studies confirm your hypothesis then it will be accepted. Chiropractic care cannot met the very simple basis of science.

Chiropractic care is just like homeopathic remedies. They aren't rooted in any science. It is garbage. You have a vested interest in Chiropractic care.

As for my bias? I am a computer scientist with a minor in mathematics. I love science. I read various scientific journals. I know how to read the relevant studies on all sorts of subjects. All the studies point to Chiropractic care being crap. Just like vaccines do not cause autism. Just like homeopathic remedies don't work.

It is all mysticism trying to convince people it is science. You won't find any real scientists that support any of the above.

Above all else, I hate seeing people hurt by something that has no basis in reality. People are hurt by the anti-vaccine nutjobs. People are HURT by the homeopathic nutjobs and people are HURT by chiropractic assholes.

I won't say Chiropractic care is crap but I won't defend the nut jobs that snap their fingers over you and trying to move your sole. Those types are rare and if I ever ran into one then I would get up and leave. Every profession has their quacks. I think Chiropractic care got a bad rap from influx of these nut jobs in the profession way back in the day but now I think it much more reliable.

What I will defend is the Chiropractors that are no BS and just adjust your back. I had real pain in my lower back that felt like a dagger shredding me. If I tried to get up or down from sitting the shooting pain would bring me to tears. I had a massage to try and help the pain but that did not work. 4 days later I went to the Chiropractor and as soon as she adjusted my back I was pain free. It was the best thing that ever to happen to me.

I seen one when I was 14 and had them fixed a problem I had in my lower back. 20 years went by before I ever seen one again and as the years went by I had lower back pain that was just something I lived with. Then when I had the dagger pain it prompted me to get help. After the adjustments I had my back felt better then ever for the last 20 years of my life. The pressure in my lower back was gone. Believe me it works and I will defend it to any that want to know my opinion on the subject.

Just think about the skeleton and all the bones in your body. Over time they become out of place, off centered, or skewed. If your bones are pushing against the muscles the wrong way how can that not be a bad thing? Sometimes you get one that so out of place that the pain is mind-boggling. Chiropractors are there to fix that and they work from my experience.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: cheezy321
Why do chiropractors call themselves doctors?

because we are.

and that's where you lose the credibility.

 

[Jeffg010]

Originally posted by: dullard
My Mom used a chiropracter for years after I helped injure her back. Ultimately, it did nothing other than teach her ways to relax her back. Thousands of dollars down the drain and the problems are still there.

My fiancee and her family loves chiropracters. They use them for everything. But the next day, $60 later, the problems are always still there with the same intensity.

My friend loves his chiropracter. So much that he drives 6 hours round trip to make it there. Of course, he spends about $300 per trip on vitamins that this chiropracter sells. Vitamins that supposedly cure any ailment. Yet, everytime I talk to my friend, he complains of yet another ailment. Surprizingly neither the chiropracter nor the vitamins are fixing or preventing these ailments.

Now, I realize that I've never gone to a chiropracter. So, I don't have first hand experience. But from what I've seen with others, the end result is that a chiropracter is a good massage, a few hours away from pain, and the rest is quackery. If you expect miracles, they'll sell them to you, but you won't get the miracle. If you expect to feel good for a short while, then by all means, do it. It is probably a bit better for you than seeing a massage therapist (and a bit cheaper).

Well from reading your post not once did you mention the adjustments that they do. I call them cracks because it sounds like when your knuckles crack. They twist you in some wired ways that pops your bones, spine or hips in place. I would not trust what your describing and would end up leaving if that was happening to me. All I look for is adjust my back to make it feel better that is all.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Beev
eits, you claim in the OP this is for chiro questions, but all you're doing is arguing why it's a "real" profession. I asked a legitimate curiosity question and you ignored it =/

i never ignored your question... if i did, it was unintentional. can you restate your question?

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: DT4K

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: DT4K

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: DT4K

Originally posted by: videogames101
Fact: Bones can pinch Nerves
Fact: Aligning those bones relieves the pinch of nerves

Conclusion: Chiropractic care can help many people.

Caveat: Many chiropractors are nutjobs who see modern medicine as evil


(So find a good one)

FACT: Chiropractic is based on the idea that subluxations (misalignments) are the cause of all illness.
FACT: There is no scientific evidence that subluxations even exist.
FACT: There is no scientific evidence that chiropractic is effective for anything other than back pain.

Conclusion: Chiropractors who say they can help you with back pain might be right.
Chiropractors who say they can help you with anything else are probably wrong.
Chiropractors who say your ear infections are caused by misalignment of your spine are absolutely full of crap.

that's a retarded conclusion. you can't say that chiropractors who say they can help you with anything other than back pain are wrong because it isn't true. you could say "may be" wrong, but even then, that would be an incorrect statement, considering how chiropractic care has helped hundreds of thousands of people with various illnesses. just read some of the case studies. look at the research being done on blood pressure and chiropractic.

no one says ear infections are caused by misalignments in the spine. however, the drainage of certain ear infections (ome) can be achieved by chiropractic adjustments so it doesn't progress to aom.

Bullshit.
I'm not surprised that you are trying to defend your scam, but it's still bullshit.
Plenty of chiros suggest that they can prevent ear infections.
And there's no evidence that misalignment is even real and the whole idea of an "adjustment" is complete and total crap. Your spine doesn't need an "adjustment" because it cannot become "misaligned" unless you have an actual injury. And if you have an actual injury, you should probably be seeing a real doctor.

The only ailment, for which there is any actual evidence of benefit from chiropractic is back pain. And that is probably just because the manipulations that are done work in the same way that massage or PT does.

Calling yourself a doctor or a physician is an insult to real doctors.

haha

it's not a scam. it's also not bullshit.
thre is evidence that misalignments are real. you can feel them and you can see the improper coupled motions. for example, say you're trying to wrap a chain around a tree and you fused two or three of those links together. you can still achieve the same goal, but the links adjacent to the fused segments have to compensate by having a greater range of motion between the linkage... the same thing happens in the spine that you can see through measurements on flexion and extension x-rays as well as just feeling to motion in the joints.

you're absolutely wrong about the only evidence for chiropractic care being back pain. i can't blame you, though. you're completely ignorant and refuse to look at any of the research or newer studies that are being done. plus, you don't have a basic understanding of how the body works.

calling medical doctors "real doctors" is an insult to those who can actually treat people with real problems without having to use medications which only treat the symptom of an underlying problem.

now, i appreciate your point of view, but unless you have a question that i can address, you're just threadcrapping and it really isn't getting anyone anywhere.

Your Topic Summary is: "don't like chiropractic? explain why."
I'm explaining why.

I don't like chiropractic for the same reason I don't like Airborne. It's a total scam with no scientific evidence. It's no better than telling people you can cure their cancer by chanting loudly to re-energize their sub-ethereal energy flow.

You are ripping people off by inventing disorders that don't exist and claiming you can cure them.

Biased studies by people with a vested financial interest in continuing the scam are not equal to scientific evidence.

um... you know i'm NOT in the pharmaceutical business, right?

reread what you just wrote... you just stated everything wrong with what pharmaceutical companies do on a daily basis.

 

[Beev]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev
eits, you claim in the OP this is for chiro questions, but all you're doing is arguing why it's a "real" profession. I asked a legitimate curiosity question and you ignored it =/

i never ignored your question... if i did, it was unintentional. can you restate your question?

As a chiropractor, you no doubt make less than a regular doctor. Why didn't you go to school an extra few years and make ten times as much?

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Jeffg010
Well from reading your post not once did you mention the adjustments that they do. I call them cracks because it sounds like when your knuckles crack. They twist you in some wired ways that pops your bones, spine or hips in place. I would not trust what your describing and would end up leaving if that was happening to me. All I look for is adjust my back to make it feel better that is all.

Honestly, I don't know what adjustments are being done. Their customers are happy, and I guess that is sufficient. It just that there seems to be a disconnect between what the customers want (fix to their problems) and what they are happy getting (very short-term relief from the problems). But, they keep going back, I'm not going to stop them. But the lack of true solutions prevents me from ever wanting to go.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: lokiju
Why should I let a chiropractor give me an x-ray when he/she is not certified to do so?

My parents are friends with a chiropractor (retired now) who was legit. He didn't try and pass himself off as a doctor, he didn't do bullshit x-rays, he didn't do bullshit "you're soul is out of whack" or any nonsense like that.

He just adjusted you and sent you on your way.

I've been to two others since he retired for back pain, the first guy did the x-ray, which I wasn't thrilled about, just because he was wearing a white coat doesn't make him qualified to take x-rays, x-ray techs have to go to 2 years of school, pass a test and be certified to do them, why shouldn't he? But beyond that first visit x-ray he seemed decent, didn't recommend bullshit treatments to fix my "energy" or something.

Then a few years later I was in an accident and living in a different state. I did physical therapy for years with questionable results so my Dr.'s decided to have me try a Chiropractor. They sent me to a place they sent most of their other patients to and this guy was a fucking hack. He puts me on some table that gives under it in different areas and moves all over the place. He jumps into my back with all his weight and knee behind it to crack my lower back, and then proceeds to nearly rip my head off cracking my neck. I hurt for weeks after going to him that 1 time more than I ever did beforehand.

He was certified, he was what insurance covered, he was what doctors recommended and he was a hack.

Since that experience I'll never again go to one, it's not worth the risk of injury to find a good one IMO.

Dr's are supposed to make you better or at least feel better and so should chiropractors.

discomfort after your first adjustment is not uncommon, because you're breaking up capsular adhesions and they're trying to reattach themselves. it's kinda like a dusty counter top... you dust the counter top one time and it looks clean right after you do it, but a little bit later, it's dusty again because some of the dust you removed settled right back onto it.

your parents friend should have explained that to you. sometimes, depending on the individual, you feel a little sore before you get better. you just chickened out.

 

[Wag]

I went for a year. All I saw were people coming in who were desperate and in terrible pain (including me) being taken advantage of. I can see chiros treating animals because they can't actually say they are feeling any better/worse, just as long people are willing to pay for it they'll keep taking your money.

All I felt was ripped off. Good for short-term relief, that's about it. Not worth shelling out big bucks for, and certainly no improvements over long-term treatment. Yeah, I can see people saying, "Well, you were seeing one who wasn't a good one, you should have found a better one". The guy I was sent to was supposedly a well known chiro, referred to by a MD in Tufts here in Boston.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: DT4K
As I've already pointed out, back pain is the one area where there is real evidence that chiropractic can help.

EDIT:
If chiropractors treat back pain by fixing "misalignment" of the spine, does that mean that primary care practitioners are equally effective at fixing "misalignment" of the spine?

From what I can infer from the few studies I've looked at, some of this pain would resolve itself in a few weeks on its own. That would certainly explain why all these different methods have roughly equal outcomes after a substantial period of time. And, it would explain why the satisfaction level with chiropractic care is higher. However, the patient probably doesn't have the expectation that the pain actually will plague them until the day they die - they want something that's going to make it feel better more quickly. Satisfaction levels were much higher for patients receiving chiropractic care, even in studies where patients were assigned a type of care (rather than choosing the one they preferred.)

that's definitely not true.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: DT4K

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: DT4K

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: DT4K

Originally posted by: videogames101
Fact: Bones can pinch Nerves
Fact: Aligning those bones relieves the pinch of nerves

Conclusion: Chiropractic care can help many people.

Caveat: Many chiropractors are nutjobs who see modern medicine as evil


(So find a good one)

FACT: Chiropractic is based on the idea that subluxations (misalignments) are the cause of all illness.
FACT: There is no scientific evidence that subluxations even exist.
FACT: There is no scientific evidence that chiropractic is effective for anything other than back pain.

Conclusion: Chiropractors who say they can help you with back pain might be right.
Chiropractors who say they can help you with anything else are probably wrong.
Chiropractors who say your ear infections are caused by misalignment of your spine are absolutely full of crap.

that's a retarded conclusion. you can't say that chiropractors who say they can help you with anything other than back pain are wrong because it isn't true. you could say "may be" wrong, but even then, that would be an incorrect statement, considering how chiropractic care has helped hundreds of thousands of people with various illnesses. just read some of the case studies. look at the research being done on blood pressure and chiropractic.

no one says ear infections are caused by misalignments in the spine. however, the drainage of certain ear infections (ome) can be achieved by chiropractic adjustments so it doesn't progress to aom.

Bullshit.
I'm not surprised that you are trying to defend your scam, but it's still bullshit.
Plenty of chiros suggest that they can prevent ear infections.
And there's no evidence that misalignment is even real and the whole idea of an "adjustment" is complete and total crap. Your spine doesn't need an "adjustment" because it cannot become "misaligned" unless you have an actual injury. And if you have an actual injury, you should probably be seeing a real doctor.

The only ailment, for which there is any actual evidence of benefit from chiropractic is back pain. And that is probably just because the manipulations that are done work in the same way that massage or PT does.

Calling yourself a doctor or a physician is an insult to real doctors.

haha

it's not a scam. it's also not bullshit.
thre is evidence that misalignments are real. you can feel them and you can see the improper coupled motions. for example, say you're trying to wrap a chain around a tree and you fused two or three of those links together. you can still achieve the same goal, but the links adjacent to the fused segments have to compensate by having a greater range of motion between the linkage... the same thing happens in the spine that you can see through measurements on flexion and extension x-rays as well as just feeling to motion in the joints.

you're absolutely wrong about the only evidence for chiropractic care being back pain. i can't blame you, though. you're completely ignorant and refuse to look at any of the research or newer studies that are being done. plus, you don't have a basic understanding of how the body works.

calling medical doctors "real doctors" is an insult to those who can actually treat people with real problems without having to use medications which only treat the symptom of an underlying problem.

now, i appreciate your point of view, but unless you have a question that i can address, you're just threadcrapping and it really isn't getting anyone anywhere.

Your Topic Summary is: "don't like chiropractic? explain why."
I'm explaining why.

I don't like chiropractic for the same reason I don't like Airborne. It's a total scam with no scientific evidence. It's no better than telling people you can cure their cancer by chanting loudly to re-energize their sub-ethereal energy flow.

You are ripping people off by inventing disorders that don't exist and claiming you can cure them.

Biased studies by people with a vested financial interest in continuing the scam are not equal to scientific evidence.

eits,

Provide studies not funded by chiro people showing efficacy of chiropractic care on any illness.

They don't exist. You can claim it is science based, but that doesn't make it so. So the SCIENCE behind it. There are no studies that demonstrate efficacy.

Science is easy. Come up with a hypothesis and test it. If studies confirm your hypothesis then it will be accepted. Chiropractic care cannot met the very simple basis of science.

Chiropractic care is just like homeopathic remedies. They aren't rooted in any science. It is garbage. You have a vested interest in Chiropractic care.

As for my bias? I am a computer scientist with a minor in mathematics. I love science. I read various scientific journals. I know how to read the relevant studies on all sorts of subjects. All the studies point to Chiropractic care being crap. Just like vaccines do not cause autism. Just like homeopathic remedies don't work.

It is all mysticism trying to convince people it is science. You won't find any real scientists that support any of the above.

Above all else, I hate seeing people hurt by something that has no basis in reality. People are hurt by the anti-vaccine nutjobs. People are HURT by the homeopathic nutjobs and people are HURT by chiropractic assholes.

really? prove it.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: princess ida

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Just like vaccines do not cause autism. Just like homeopathic remedies don't work.

Ironically, my autistic son gets enormous anxiety relief from homeopathic remedies. I don't believe in it either, but if it helps, I don't care.

There's still a lot of stuff out that we don't understand.

autism isn't caused by vaccines. it's primarily linked to the age of the parents when the baby was conceived.

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: princess ida

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Just like vaccines do not cause autism. Just like homeopathic remedies don't work.

Ironically, my autistic son gets enormous anxiety relief from homeopathic remedies. I don't believe in it either, but if it helps, I don't care.

There's still a lot of stuff out that we don't understand.

Once again placebo effect.

There have been TONS of studies on homeopathic remedies. None show any improvement over placebo.

It has nothing to do with stuff we don't understand. We know how to perform studies. If homeopathic remedies actually worked in studies then we would have the situation of not knowing how to explain it.

That isn't the case. They don't work and it is easy to explain.

Anyone notice how Eits ignores all posts asking for peer reviewed scientific studies that conclusively show the efficacy of chiropractic care?

He either ignores it or posts conspiracy theories about lack of funding. His conspiracy theories are easy to debunk.....

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: dullard
My Mom used a chiropracter for years after I helped injure her back. Ultimately, it did nothing other than teach her ways to relax her back. Thousands of dollars down the drain and the problems are still there.

My fiancee and her family loves chiropracters. They use them for everything. But the next day, $60 later, the problems are always still there with the same intensity.

My friend loves his chiropracter. So much that he drives 6 hours round trip to make it there. Of course, he spends about $300 per trip on vitamins that this chiropracter sells. Vitamins that supposedly cure any ailment. Yet, everytime I talk to my friend, he complains of yet another ailment. Surprizingly neither the chiropracter nor the vitamins are fixing or preventing these ailments.

Now, I realize that I've never gone to a chiropracter. So, I don't have first hand experience. But from what I've seen with others, the end result is that a chiropracter is a good massage, a few hours away from pain, and the rest is quackery. If you expect miracles, they'll sell them to you, but you won't get the miracle. If you expect to feel good for a short while, then by all means, do it. It is probably a bit better for you than seeing a massage therapist (and a bit cheaper).

shitty chiropractors will be the ones who have people who have to keep coming back all the time. 70% is their fault (not addressing wtf is bringing the patient in all the time and fixing the problem correctly), 30% is the patient's fault (continuing to do what they were doing that landed them in the chiropractic office to begin with as well as not giving up on a treatment plan that isn't helping).

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Beev

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev
eits, you claim in the OP this is for chiro questions, but all you're doing is arguing why it's a "real" profession. I asked a legitimate curiosity question and you ignored it =/

i never ignored your question... if i did, it was unintentional. can you restate your question?

As a chiropractor, you no doubt make less than a regular doctor. Why didn't you go to school an extra few years and make ten times as much?

?? i don't get it.

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: DT4K

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: DT4K

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: DT4K

Originally posted by: videogames101
Fact: Bones can pinch Nerves
Fact: Aligning those bones relieves the pinch of nerves

Conclusion: Chiropractic care can help many people.

Caveat: Many chiropractors are nutjobs who see modern medicine as evil


(So find a good one)

FACT: Chiropractic is based on the idea that subluxations (misalignments) are the cause of all illness.
FACT: There is no scientific evidence that subluxations even exist.
FACT: There is no scientific evidence that chiropractic is effective for anything other than back pain.

Conclusion: Chiropractors who say they can help you with back pain might be right.
Chiropractors who say they can help you with anything else are probably wrong.
Chiropractors who say your ear infections are caused by misalignment of your spine are absolutely full of crap.

that's a retarded conclusion. you can't say that chiropractors who say they can help you with anything other than back pain are wrong because it isn't true. you could say "may be" wrong, but even then, that would be an incorrect statement, considering how chiropractic care has helped hundreds of thousands of people with various illnesses. just read some of the case studies. look at the research being done on blood pressure and chiropractic.

no one says ear infections are caused by misalignments in the spine. however, the drainage of certain ear infections (ome) can be achieved by chiropractic adjustments so it doesn't progress to aom.

Bullshit.
I'm not surprised that you are trying to defend your scam, but it's still bullshit.
Plenty of chiros suggest that they can prevent ear infections.
And there's no evidence that misalignment is even real and the whole idea of an "adjustment" is complete and total crap. Your spine doesn't need an "adjustment" because it cannot become "misaligned" unless you have an actual injury. And if you have an actual injury, you should probably be seeing a real doctor.

The only ailment, for which there is any actual evidence of benefit from chiropractic is back pain. And that is probably just because the manipulations that are done work in the same way that massage or PT does.

Calling yourself a doctor or a physician is an insult to real doctors.

haha

it's not a scam. it's also not bullshit.
thre is evidence that misalignments are real. you can feel them and you can see the improper coupled motions. for example, say you're trying to wrap a chain around a tree and you fused two or three of those links together. you can still achieve the same goal, but the links adjacent to the fused segments have to compensate by having a greater range of motion between the linkage... the same thing happens in the spine that you can see through measurements on flexion and extension x-rays as well as just feeling to motion in the joints.

you're absolutely wrong about the only evidence for chiropractic care being back pain. i can't blame you, though. you're completely ignorant and refuse to look at any of the research or newer studies that are being done. plus, you don't have a basic understanding of how the body works.

calling medical doctors "real doctors" is an insult to those who can actually treat people with real problems without having to use medications which only treat the symptom of an underlying problem.

now, i appreciate your point of view, but unless you have a question that i can address, you're just threadcrapping and it really isn't getting anyone anywhere.

Your Topic Summary is: "don't like chiropractic? explain why."
I'm explaining why.

I don't like chiropractic for the same reason I don't like Airborne. It's a total scam with no scientific evidence. It's no better than telling people you can cure their cancer by chanting loudly to re-energize their sub-ethereal energy flow.

You are ripping people off by inventing disorders that don't exist and claiming you can cure them.

Biased studies by people with a vested financial interest in continuing the scam are not equal to scientific evidence.

eits,

Provide studies not funded by chiro people showing efficacy of chiropractic care on any illness.

They don't exist. You can claim it is science based, but that doesn't make it so. So the SCIENCE behind it. There are no studies that demonstrate efficacy.

Science is easy. Come up with a hypothesis and test it. If studies confirm your hypothesis then it will be accepted. Chiropractic care cannot met the very simple basis of science.

Chiropractic care is just like homeopathic remedies. They aren't rooted in any science. It is garbage. You have a vested interest in Chiropractic care.

As for my bias? I am a computer scientist with a minor in mathematics. I love science. I read various scientific journals. I know how to read the relevant studies on all sorts of subjects. All the studies point to Chiropractic care being crap. Just like vaccines do not cause autism. Just like homeopathic remedies don't work.

It is all mysticism trying to convince people it is science. You won't find any real scientists that support any of the above.

Above all else, I hate seeing people hurt by something that has no basis in reality. People are hurt by the anti-vaccine nutjobs. People are HURT by the homeopathic nutjobs and people are HURT by chiropractic assholes.

really? prove it.

I posted before I saw this.

Are you really that dense? it isn't my job to DISPROVE your quack BS.

You have to prove your case. It isn't my job to disprove anything.

If you are going to try that argument. Prove that a pink unicorn doesn't exist between here and mars in space.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Wag
I went for a year. All I saw were people coming in who were desperate and in terrible pain (including me) being taken advantage of. I can see chiros treating animals because they can't actually say they are feeling any better/worse, just as long people are willing to pay for it they'll keep taking your money.

All I felt was ripped off. Good for short-term relief, that's about it. Not worth shelling out big bucks for, and certainly no improvements over long-term treatment. Yeah, I can see people saying, "Well, you were seeing one who wasn't a good one, you should have found a better one". The guy I was sent to was supposedly a well known chiro, referred to by a MD in Tufts here in Boston.

subjective findings when it comes to pain are practically useless... you look for objective findings (increased range of motion, decreased limping, moving around faster, etc.).