Chiropractic Questions

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: eits
really? prove it.

I posted before I saw this.

Are you really that dense? it isn't my job to DISPROVE your quack BS.

You have to prove your case. It isn't my job to disprove anything.

If you are going to try that argument. Prove that a pink unicorn doesn't exist between here and mars in space.

:roll: you're full of crap. you're making shit up and then want to put the burden of proof on me? eat one.

you can't just sit there on your fat ass making up crap like that and try to misinform everyone.

Here you go then, this study is a meta analysis of the best research on chiropractic to date. Take a look at section 6, efficacy. This research clearly demonstrates a total lack of efficacy for any type of ailment beyond neck and back pain, and for those problems no study favors chiropractic over standard treatments. If you have a better study or meta analysis to contribute I will happily read it, but for now as far as I'm concerned this is check mate.

it was done by a medical doctor. find one by a chiropractor that says the same thing.

not checkmate. not even close.

You are a joke. Your statement proves EXACTLY why you are a joke.

It doesn't matter if a medical doctor did the study. It doesn't matter if Joe Blow did the study. All that matters is the methods and controls of the study and that the data is valid.

Attack the study and tell us what is wrong with the data/methods of the study.

You haven't provided any validation for your claims. Once again, show us a scientific peer reviewed study that shows the efficacy of chiropractic care in treating any illness. I would love to see the one that deals with colic or high blood pressure since you named those specifically.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: eits
i was confused because you said something like "why didn't go to school a few more years"... chiropractic school takes longer than med school, that's why i was confused.

it takes longer than 8 years of school plus 2 to 8 years of internship to become a chiropractor?

chiropractic school:
4 academic years bachelor's
5 academic years chiropractic school
1 year of internship in outpatient setting
continued education every couple years to maintain license

med school:
4 academic years bachelor's
4 academic years medicine
avg of 3.5 years for residency
continued education every couple years to maintain license

med school students have to go through so much residency because what they do is save lives. chiropractors don't save lives or deal with tons of chemical coctails and drugs with dosages and whatnot to memorize... medical doctors do. all chiropractors have to deal with is maintaining the knowledge of the human body and what nerves affect what.

Wait a second, I've always read that chiropractic school is only 4 years, I thought.

You must first complete the prerequisite courses to enter chiropractic college. Commonly referred to as the "pre-med" curriculum, it consists of a minimum of 90 credit hours (120 is a bachelors degree at most colleges and most students complete their BS degree before applying to chiropractic college) primarily in science classes. Once you enter chiropractic college you will find that most programs are 14 quarters in length which translates into 3.5-4 years if you manage to go straight through without a break or a misstep.

How long does it take to become a chiropractor?:

Usually seven years, counting undergrad. Four years of college, and three years of Chiropractic college.
Some schools allow the senior year of college to be taken concurrently with the first year of Chiropractic college, thus reducing the time to six years.

Some States require a bachelor's before the Chiropractor school, some don't. I did have one so I was at school 8 years total.
For the other's the pre-reqs take about 2-1/2 years at a JC. The school is challenging, but also interesting and fun, especially when you get to start hands on. We also had full dissection of cadavers, which they do in the US and not in Europe (one of the reasons we get the "Dr." title and they don't).
Source(s):
Chiropractor, 11 years.

It takes four years to obtain a degree in chiropractic medicine. In a typical chiropractic curriculum, the first two years are spent on basic science - gross anatomy, neuroscience, histology, biochemistry, etc. In the third and fourth years, students complete clinical rotations to get supervised hands-on work with patients.

How long does a chiropractor go to school?

After completing the same prerequisites for medical school, chiropractors attend Chiropractic College for four years.

It is a minor issue, but I couldn't let it slide. Your comment about residency for physician interns are sensible, however.

currently, chiropractic schools allow people who haven't completed their bachelor's degree. that's going to change in the next couple years. med school doesn't require a b.s. to get in, either, apparently (something i didn't know until my brother's friend from high school got into vcu med school after only going to undergrad for 2.5 years).

chiropractic school doesn't do semesters... they do trimesters. it maintains the same academic year but shortens the actual amount of time you go to school... 2 semesters in a year, 3 trimesters in a year... get it?

this link might better explain it: http://www.chiromi.com/aboutchiropractic/

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: eits
it was done by a medical doctor. find one by a chiropractor that says the same thing.

not checkmate. not even close.

You are a joke. Your statement proves EXACTLY why you are a joke.

It doesn't matter if a medical doctor did the study. It doesn't matter if Joe Blow did the study. All that matters is the methods and controls of the study and that the data is valid.

Attack the study and tell us what is wrong with the data/methods of the study.

You haven't provided any validation for your claims. Once again, show us a scientific peer reviewed study that shows the efficacy of chiropractic care in treating any illness. I would love to see the one that deals with colic or high blood pressure since you named those specifically.

The meta analysis was performed by a guy on his side of the fence! He's so misguided that he is accusing people in the CAM camp of being biased against CAM!

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev
eits, you claim in the OP this is for chiro questions, but all you're doing is arguing why it's a "real" profession. I asked a legitimate curiosity question and you ignored it =/

i never ignored your question... if i did, it was unintentional. can you restate your question?

As a chiropractor, you no doubt make less than a regular doctor. Why didn't you go to school an extra few years and make ten times as much?

?? i don't get it.

What made you want to be a chiropractor rather than a more common, higher paid doctor?

i was confused because you said something like "why didn't go to school a few more years"... chiropractic school takes longer than med school, that's why i was confused.

after being all about med school for a semester, i realized that they weren't really treating anything other than symptoms and the only way to actually FIX things in the medical world was to be a surgeon. i didn't like the idea of being a surgeon because i was more family oriented and a didn't want to always be on call.

so, i found out about chiropractic and realized that you could actually treat people's problems rather than just symptoms without having to drug people. so, i enrolled in chiropractic school and realized i was learning the same stuff as med school students were learning, just with more of an emphasis on anatomy and physiology and less on pharmacology.

wanting to treat people was never really about the money for me... it was about the happiness i feel whenever i make someone else's life better.

You probalby should have done a little bit more research before settling on that ridiculous statement. It's a shame because your chiro training probably just perpetuated the misconception that MDs just hand out a lot of drugs to mask symptoms rather than cure patients

unless you're a surgeon, medical doctors hardly cure anything other than various infections and parasites and you know it.

most medical doctors you see will write you a script for some medication designed to treat the symptoms of conditions... that's partly due to the public being brainwashed into believing that they actually do need the medications they see ads about on tv and the md wants to make their patients happy, the other part has to do with the little kickbacks md's get from giving out samples and prescribing certain drugs.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: coloumb
Honestly? I just can't see myself relaxing enough to let them do their work [I'd be too afraid something would pop out of place would could cause more serious problems]. I'm the type of person who only sees a doctor if it's absolutely only necessary [I think the last doctor I saw was for a broken wrist injury that happened about 20 years ago].

Granted - they are [probably] experts in their field - but I'd rather not take the chance of them breaking something that doesn't need to be fixed.

and that's your prerogative

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: eits
really? prove it.

I posted before I saw this.

Are you really that dense? it isn't my job to DISPROVE your quack BS.

You have to prove your case. It isn't my job to disprove anything.

If you are going to try that argument. Prove that a pink unicorn doesn't exist between here and mars in space.

:roll: you're full of crap. you're making shit up and then want to put the burden of proof on me? eat one.

you can't just sit there on your fat ass making up crap like that and try to misinform everyone.

Here you go then, this study is a meta analysis of the best research on chiropractic to date. Take a look at section 6, efficacy. This research clearly demonstrates a total lack of efficacy for any type of ailment beyond neck and back pain, and for those problems no study favors chiropractic over standard treatments. If you have a better study or meta analysis to contribute I will happily read it, but for now as far as I'm concerned this is check mate.

it was done by a medical doctor. find one by a chiropractor that says the same thing.

not checkmate. not even close.

You are a joke. Your statement proves EXACTLY why you are a joke.

It doesn't matter if a medical doctor did the study. It doesn't matter if Joe Blow did the study. All that matters is the methods and controls of the study and that the data is valid.

Attack the study and tell us what is wrong with the data/methods of the study.

You haven't provided any validation for your claims. Once again, show us a scientific peer reviewed study that shows the efficacy of chiropractic care in treating any illness. I would love to see the one that deals with colic or high blood pressure since you named those specifically.

already linked them, fatty. go find them.

 

[mattpegher]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: eits
i was confused because you said something like "why didn't go to school a few more years"... chiropractic school takes longer than med school, that's why i was confused.

it takes longer than 8 years of school plus 2 to 8 years of internship to become a chiropractor?

chiropractic school:
4 academic years bachelor's
5 academic years chiropractic school
1 year of internship in outpatient setting
continued education every couple years to maintain license

med school:
4 academic years bachelor's
4 academic years medicine
avg of 3.5 years for residency
continued education every couple years to maintain license

med school students have to go through so much residency because what they do is save lives. chiropractors don't save lives or deal with tons of chemical coctails and drugs with dosages and whatnot to memorize... medical doctors do. all chiropractors have to deal with is maintaining the knowledge of the human body and what nerves affect what.

Wait a second, I've always read that chiropractic school is only 4 years, I thought.

You must first complete the prerequisite courses to enter chiropractic college. Commonly referred to as the "pre-med" curriculum, it consists of a minimum of 90 credit hours (120 is a bachelors degree at most colleges and most students complete their BS degree before applying to chiropractic college) primarily in science classes. Once you enter chiropractic college you will find that most programs are 14 quarters in length which translates into 3.5-4 years if you manage to go straight through without a break or a misstep.

How long does it take to become a chiropractor?:

Usually seven years, counting undergrad. Four years of college, and three years of Chiropractic college.
Some schools allow the senior year of college to be taken concurrently with the first year of Chiropractic college, thus reducing the time to six years.

Some States require a bachelor's before the Chiropractor school, some don't. I did have one so I was at school 8 years total.
For the other's the pre-reqs take about 2-1/2 years at a JC. The school is challenging, but also interesting and fun, especially when you get to start hands on. We also had full dissection of cadavers, which they do in the US and not in Europe (one of the reasons we get the "Dr." title and they don't).
Source(s):
Chiropractor, 11 years.

It takes four years to obtain a degree in chiropractic medicine. In a typical chiropractic curriculum, the first two years are spent on basic science - gross anatomy, neuroscience, histology, biochemistry, etc. In the third and fourth years, students complete clinical rotations to get supervised hands-on work with patients.

How long does a chiropractor go to school?

After completing the same prerequisites for medical school, chiropractors attend Chiropractic College for four years.

It is a minor issue, but I couldn't let it slide. Your comment about residency for physician interns are sensible, however.

currently, chiropractic schools allow people who haven't completed their bachelor's degree. that's going to change in the next couple years. med school doesn't require a b.s. to get in, either, apparently (something i didn't know until my brother's friend from high school got into vcu med school after only going to undergrad for 2.5 years).

chiropractic school doesn't do semesters... they do trimesters. it maintains the same academic year but shortens the actual amount of time you go to school... 2 semesters in a year, 3 trimesters in a year... get it?

this link might better explain it: http://www.chiromi.com/aboutchiropractic/

Some colleges do offer a 6 year program where you spend two years focused undergraduate then enter med school. All other programs require a Bachelors degree to enter.

Most medical schools do not allow for any vacation between years, I think I got 3 weeks between freshman and sophmore year, then after the second year in classes you go right into the clinical rotations until graduation, no breaks.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev
eits, you claim in the OP this is for chiro questions, but all you're doing is arguing why it's a "real" profession. I asked a legitimate curiosity question and you ignored it =/

i never ignored your question... if i did, it was unintentional. can you restate your question?

As a chiropractor, you no doubt make less than a regular doctor. Why didn't you go to school an extra few years and make ten times as much?

?? i don't get it.

What made you want to be a chiropractor rather than a more common, higher paid doctor?

i was confused because you said something like "why didn't go to school a few more years"... chiropractic school takes longer than med school, that's why i was confused.

after being all about med school for a semester, i realized that they weren't really treating anything other than symptoms and the only way to actually FIX things in the medical world was to be a surgeon. i didn't like the idea of being a surgeon because i was more family oriented and a didn't want to always be on call.

so, i found out about chiropractic and realized that you could actually treat people's problems rather than just symptoms without having to drug people. so, i enrolled in chiropractic school and realized i was learning the same stuff as med school students were learning, just with more of an emphasis on anatomy and physiology and less on pharmacology.

wanting to treat people was never really about the money for me... it was about the happiness i feel whenever i make someone else's life better.

You probalby should have done a little bit more research before settling on that ridiculous statement. It's a shame because your chiro training probably just perpetuated the misconception that MDs just hand out a lot of drugs to mask symptoms rather than cure patients

unless you're a surgeon, medical doctors hardly cure anything other than various infections and parasites and you know it.

most medical doctors you see will write you a script for some medication designed to treat the symptoms of conditions... that's partly due to the public being brainwashed into believing that they actually do need the medications they see ads about on tv and the md wants to make their patients happy, the other part has to do with the little kickbacks md's get from giving out samples and prescribing certain drugs.

Lol what are you talking about. Every medical field other than diagnostics cures disease.

Oncology: I'm sure you've heard of it...
Cardio: Statins lower cholesterol---> prevents heart disease. Interventional cards can open a embolic coronary--> cures your "heart attack".
GI: Colonoscopy-->Find polyp, kill polyp, prevent cancer.

There are plenty of diseases that are incurable but are well managed by modern medicine. You guys have the luxury of cherry picking the cases you want and giving us the incurable cases, then turn around and say we dont cure anyone. Quite hypocritical.

 

[mattpegher]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev
eits, you claim in the OP this is for chiro questions, but all you're doing is arguing why it's a "real" profession. I asked a legitimate curiosity question and you ignored it =/

i never ignored your question... if i did, it was unintentional. can you restate your question?

As a chiropractor, you no doubt make less than a regular doctor. Why didn't you go to school an extra few years and make ten times as much?

?? i don't get it.

What made you want to be a chiropractor rather than a more common, higher paid doctor?

i was confused because you said something like "why didn't go to school a few more years"... chiropractic school takes longer than med school, that's why i was confused.

after being all about med school for a semester, i realized that they weren't really treating anything other than symptoms and the only way to actually FIX things in the medical world was to be a surgeon. i didn't like the idea of being a surgeon because i was more family oriented and a didn't want to always be on call.

so, i found out about chiropractic and realized that you could actually treat people's problems rather than just symptoms without having to drug people. so, i enrolled in chiropractic school and realized i was learning the same stuff as med school students were learning, just with more of an emphasis on anatomy and physiology and less on pharmacology.

wanting to treat people was never really about the money for me... it was about the happiness i feel whenever i make someone else's life better.

You probalby should have done a little bit more research before settling on that ridiculous statement. It's a shame because your chiro training probably just perpetuated the misconception that MDs just hand out a lot of drugs to mask symptoms rather than cure patients

unless you're a surgeon, medical doctors hardly cure anything other than various infections and parasites and you know it.

most medical doctors you see will write you a script for some medication designed to treat the symptoms of conditions... that's partly due to the public being brainwashed into believing that they actually do need the medications they see ads about on tv and the md wants to make their patients happy, the other part has to do with the little kickbacks md's get from giving out samples and prescribing certain drugs.

Eits, I think you forget who one of your best supporters in this debate is. I have to take offense at your statement above. There is no need to attack nonsurgical medicine, to argue your position. Like all facets of medicine and science, chiropractic medicine will be able to support some of its theories and evolve to incorporate more data as time goes by.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

I see you're going to address points made by others but you've given up on me. Please show credible studies or meta analyses that show efficacy in treating anything other than back and neck pain.

 

[ja1484]

Because it has very little research base behind its claims. Lack of evidence. Plain and simple.

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
I see you're going to address points made by others but you've given up on me. Please show credible studies or meta analyses that show efficacy in treating anything other than back and neck pain.

This.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: eits
it was done by a medical doctor. find one by a chiropractor that says the same thing.

not checkmate. not even close.

You are a joke. Your statement proves EXACTLY why you are a joke.

It doesn't matter if a medical doctor did the study. It doesn't matter if Joe Blow did the study. All that matters is the methods and controls of the study and that the data is valid.

Attack the study and tell us what is wrong with the data/methods of the study.

You haven't provided any validation for your claims. Once again, show us a scientific peer reviewed study that shows the efficacy of chiropractic care in treating any illness. I would love to see the one that deals with colic or high blood pressure since you named those specifically.

The meta analysis was performed by a guy on his side of the fence! He's so misguided that he is accusing people in the CAM camp of being biased against CAM!

no, i'm saying that there's bias in everything. i didn't read the study (i didn't have time to) and i didn't look up the author.

i'm skimming over parts of it and i can already tell you this is a crappy lit review. it makes claims that are not completely supported by a few of the studies it reviewed and draws its conclusions based on what the author thought was important and what wasn't... just by looking at some footnotes, i can see that some of info must have been taken out of context.

do i think this article is rubbish? no. it raises a few important issues that chiropractors need to take notice of and do more research on. do i think it's a valid lit review? to an extent. do i think it's biased? absolutely. am i biased? absolutely.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.g...bmed&pubmedid=11599329
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11VN2sGMdbI
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu...tPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: mattpegher

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: eits
i was confused because you said something like "why didn't go to school a few more years"... chiropractic school takes longer than med school, that's why i was confused.

it takes longer than 8 years of school plus 2 to 8 years of internship to become a chiropractor?

chiropractic school:
4 academic years bachelor's
5 academic years chiropractic school
1 year of internship in outpatient setting
continued education every couple years to maintain license

med school:
4 academic years bachelor's
4 academic years medicine
avg of 3.5 years for residency
continued education every couple years to maintain license

med school students have to go through so much residency because what they do is save lives. chiropractors don't save lives or deal with tons of chemical coctails and drugs with dosages and whatnot to memorize... medical doctors do. all chiropractors have to deal with is maintaining the knowledge of the human body and what nerves affect what.

Wait a second, I've always read that chiropractic school is only 4 years, I thought.

You must first complete the prerequisite courses to enter chiropractic college. Commonly referred to as the "pre-med" curriculum, it consists of a minimum of 90 credit hours (120 is a bachelors degree at most colleges and most students complete their BS degree before applying to chiropractic college) primarily in science classes. Once you enter chiropractic college you will find that most programs are 14 quarters in length which translates into 3.5-4 years if you manage to go straight through without a break or a misstep.

How long does it take to become a chiropractor?:

Usually seven years, counting undergrad. Four years of college, and three years of Chiropractic college.
Some schools allow the senior year of college to be taken concurrently with the first year of Chiropractic college, thus reducing the time to six years.

Some States require a bachelor's before the Chiropractor school, some don't. I did have one so I was at school 8 years total.
For the other's the pre-reqs take about 2-1/2 years at a JC. The school is challenging, but also interesting and fun, especially when you get to start hands on. We also had full dissection of cadavers, which they do in the US and not in Europe (one of the reasons we get the "Dr." title and they don't).
Source(s):
Chiropractor, 11 years.

It takes four years to obtain a degree in chiropractic medicine. In a typical chiropractic curriculum, the first two years are spent on basic science - gross anatomy, neuroscience, histology, biochemistry, etc. In the third and fourth years, students complete clinical rotations to get supervised hands-on work with patients.

How long does a chiropractor go to school?

After completing the same prerequisites for medical school, chiropractors attend Chiropractic College for four years.

It is a minor issue, but I couldn't let it slide. Your comment about residency for physician interns are sensible, however.

currently, chiropractic schools allow people who haven't completed their bachelor's degree. that's going to change in the next couple years. med school doesn't require a b.s. to get in, either, apparently (something i didn't know until my brother's friend from high school got into vcu med school after only going to undergrad for 2.5 years).

chiropractic school doesn't do semesters... they do trimesters. it maintains the same academic year but shortens the actual amount of time you go to school... 2 semesters in a year, 3 trimesters in a year... get it?

this link might better explain it: http://www.chiromi.com/aboutchiropractic/

Some colleges do offer a 6 year program where you spend two years focused undergraduate then enter med school. All other programs require a Bachelors degree to enter.

Most medical schools do not allow for any vacation between years, I think I got 3 weeks between freshman and sophmore year, then after the second year in classes you go right into the clinical rotations until graduation, no breaks.

that didn't happen for a few of my friends who went through med school. they had about two months break between semesters. but, yeah clinicals were similar for us too... no breaks.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev
eits, you claim in the OP this is for chiro questions, but all you're doing is arguing why it's a "real" profession. I asked a legitimate curiosity question and you ignored it =/

i never ignored your question... if i did, it was unintentional. can you restate your question?

As a chiropractor, you no doubt make less than a regular doctor. Why didn't you go to school an extra few years and make ten times as much?

?? i don't get it.

What made you want to be a chiropractor rather than a more common, higher paid doctor?

i was confused because you said something like "why didn't go to school a few more years"... chiropractic school takes longer than med school, that's why i was confused.

after being all about med school for a semester, i realized that they weren't really treating anything other than symptoms and the only way to actually FIX things in the medical world was to be a surgeon. i didn't like the idea of being a surgeon because i was more family oriented and a didn't want to always be on call.

so, i found out about chiropractic and realized that you could actually treat people's problems rather than just symptoms without having to drug people. so, i enrolled in chiropractic school and realized i was learning the same stuff as med school students were learning, just with more of an emphasis on anatomy and physiology and less on pharmacology.

wanting to treat people was never really about the money for me... it was about the happiness i feel whenever i make someone else's life better.

You probalby should have done a little bit more research before settling on that ridiculous statement. It's a shame because your chiro training probably just perpetuated the misconception that MDs just hand out a lot of drugs to mask symptoms rather than cure patients

unless you're a surgeon, medical doctors hardly cure anything other than various infections and parasites and you know it.

most medical doctors you see will write you a script for some medication designed to treat the symptoms of conditions... that's partly due to the public being brainwashed into believing that they actually do need the medications they see ads about on tv and the md wants to make their patients happy, the other part has to do with the little kickbacks md's get from giving out samples and prescribing certain drugs.

Lol what are you talking about. Every medical field other than diagnostics cures disease.

Oncology: I'm sure you've heard of it...
Cardio: Statins lower cholesterol---> prevents heart disease. Interventional cards can open a embolic coronary--> cures your "heart attack".
GI: Colonoscopy-->Find polyp, kill polyp, prevent cancer.

There are plenty of diseases that are incurable but are well managed by modern medicine. You guys have the luxury of cherry picking the cases you want and giving us the incurable cases, then turn around and say we dont cure anyone. Quite hypocritical.

name a few diseases and cures for me.

 

[MrMatt]

Well long before I knew there was debate about chiropractic I worked for a company that handled disability insurance claims. I just handled one of the steps in the process. Of all the claims that came across my desk (100s per week), about 35-40% of them seemed to be from chiropracters. I don't mean patients who said that their chiropracter said they should be on disability or were permanently disabled. I mean claims from chiropracters saying they needed to go on disability, and out of that 35-40% about 90% of them said they needed to be on permanent disability. I brought this up with a manager asking if we just had a lot of clients who were chiropracters. She said that no, but that chiropracters were largely quacks.


Since then I've seen both sides of the argument. Part of me thinks its psychosomatic, but it's hard to argue with someone who says they haven't been able to do thing XYZ for months/years until a series of chiro visits.

So I really don't know. Maybe because the science is relatively new it allows a disproportionate number of quacks in. Doesn't mean everyone who does it is fake.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: eits
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.g...bmed&pubmedid=11599329
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11VN2sGMdbI
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu...tPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Are you kidding me?! This keeps getting better and better. The first pubmed article you linked above shows the number of stroke resulting from chiropractic adjustments, and says NOTHING about the efficacy of chiropractic. If you're patting yourself on the back because stroke resulting from your profession are relatively low then that's just sad. The second article is a meta analysis of referrals to chiropractors, homeopaths and acupuncturists from medical doctors and again says absolutely NOTHING about efficacy. Are you even trying anymore?

Edit - please trim your quotes eits.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: mattpegher

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev
eits, you claim in the OP this is for chiro questions, but all you're doing is arguing why it's a "real" profession. I asked a legitimate curiosity question and you ignored it =/

i never ignored your question... if i did, it was unintentional. can you restate your question?

As a chiropractor, you no doubt make less than a regular doctor. Why didn't you go to school an extra few years and make ten times as much?

?? i don't get it.

What made you want to be a chiropractor rather than a more common, higher paid doctor?

i was confused because you said something like "why didn't go to school a few more years"... chiropractic school takes longer than med school, that's why i was confused.

after being all about med school for a semester, i realized that they weren't really treating anything other than symptoms and the only way to actually FIX things in the medical world was to be a surgeon. i didn't like the idea of being a surgeon because i was more family oriented and a didn't want to always be on call.

so, i found out about chiropractic and realized that you could actually treat people's problems rather than just symptoms without having to drug people. so, i enrolled in chiropractic school and realized i was learning the same stuff as med school students were learning, just with more of an emphasis on anatomy and physiology and less on pharmacology.

wanting to treat people was never really about the money for me... it was about the happiness i feel whenever i make someone else's life better.

You probalby should have done a little bit more research before settling on that ridiculous statement. It's a shame because your chiro training probably just perpetuated the misconception that MDs just hand out a lot of drugs to mask symptoms rather than cure patients

unless you're a surgeon, medical doctors hardly cure anything other than various infections and parasites and you know it.

most medical doctors you see will write you a script for some medication designed to treat the symptoms of conditions... that's partly due to the public being brainwashed into believing that they actually do need the medications they see ads about on tv and the md wants to make their patients happy, the other part has to do with the little kickbacks md's get from giving out samples and prescribing certain drugs.

Eits, I think you forget who one of your best supporters in this debate is. I have to take offense at your statement above. There is no need to attack nonsurgical medicine, to argue your position. Like all facets of medicine and science, chiropractic medicine will be able to support some of its theories and evolve to incorporate more data as time goes by.

i'm not attacking... i'm just making a broad generalization that, for the most part, prescriptions are not cures... they're medicines designed to treat symptoms of problems rather than the problem.

it's completely understandable why, too... with so many people with ailments who complain about symptoms, it's easier to treat the symptom to make them feel better and send them on their way. that's why people come to doctors anyways... to feel better. most people aren't concerned about what's really wrong with them, just how to make the pain/whatever go away.

it was what turned me off of med school and made me more interested in chiropractic.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev
eits, you claim in the OP this is for chiro questions, but all you're doing is arguing why it's a "real" profession. I asked a legitimate curiosity question and you ignored it =/

i never ignored your question... if i did, it was unintentional. can you restate your question?

As a chiropractor, you no doubt make less than a regular doctor. Why didn't you go to school an extra few years and make ten times as much?

?? i don't get it.

What made you want to be a chiropractor rather than a more common, higher paid doctor?

i was confused because you said something like "why didn't go to school a few more years"... chiropractic school takes longer than med school, that's why i was confused.

after being all about med school for a semester, i realized that they weren't really treating anything other than symptoms and the only way to actually FIX things in the medical world was to be a surgeon. i didn't like the idea of being a surgeon because i was more family oriented and a didn't want to always be on call.

so, i found out about chiropractic and realized that you could actually treat people's problems rather than just symptoms without having to drug people. so, i enrolled in chiropractic school and realized i was learning the same stuff as med school students were learning, just with more of an emphasis on anatomy and physiology and less on pharmacology.

wanting to treat people was never really about the money for me... it was about the happiness i feel whenever i make someone else's life better.

You probalby should have done a little bit more research before settling on that ridiculous statement. It's a shame because your chiro training probably just perpetuated the misconception that MDs just hand out a lot of drugs to mask symptoms rather than cure patients

unless you're a surgeon, medical doctors hardly cure anything other than various infections and parasites and you know it.

most medical doctors you see will write you a script for some medication designed to treat the symptoms of conditions... that's partly due to the public being brainwashed into believing that they actually do need the medications they see ads about on tv and the md wants to make their patients happy, the other part has to do with the little kickbacks md's get from giving out samples and prescribing certain drugs.

Lol what are you talking about. Every medical field other than diagnostics cures disease.

Oncology: I'm sure you've heard of it...
Cardio: Statins lower cholesterol---> prevents heart disease. Interventional cards can open a embolic coronary--> cures your "heart attack".
GI: Colonoscopy-->Find polyp, kill polyp, prevent cancer.

There are plenty of diseases that are incurable but are well managed by modern medicine. You guys have the luxury of cherry picking the cases you want and giving us the incurable cases, then turn around and say we dont cure anyone. Quite hypocritical.

name a few diseases and cures for me.

Onc: Prolactinoma --> give bromocriptine
Cardio: PDA --> give indomethacin
GI: Rectal polyp --> endoscopic removal (which gastroenterologists can do, not surgeons)

So, what chiro treatments would you prescribe for those?

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: mattpegher

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev
eits, you claim in the OP this is for chiro questions, but all you're doing is arguing why it's a "real" profession. I asked a legitimate curiosity question and you ignored it =/

i never ignored your question... if i did, it was unintentional. can you restate your question?

As a chiropractor, you no doubt make less than a regular doctor. Why didn't you go to school an extra few years and make ten times as much?

?? i don't get it.

What made you want to be a chiropractor rather than a more common, higher paid doctor?

i was confused because you said something like "why didn't go to school a few more years"... chiropractic school takes longer than med school, that's why i was confused.

after being all about med school for a semester, i realized that they weren't really treating anything other than symptoms and the only way to actually FIX things in the medical world was to be a surgeon. i didn't like the idea of being a surgeon because i was more family oriented and a didn't want to always be on call.

so, i found out about chiropractic and realized that you could actually treat people's problems rather than just symptoms without having to drug people. so, i enrolled in chiropractic school and realized i was learning the same stuff as med school students were learning, just with more of an emphasis on anatomy and physiology and less on pharmacology.

wanting to treat people was never really about the money for me... it was about the happiness i feel whenever i make someone else's life better.

You probalby should have done a little bit more research before settling on that ridiculous statement. It's a shame because your chiro training probably just perpetuated the misconception that MDs just hand out a lot of drugs to mask symptoms rather than cure patients

unless you're a surgeon, medical doctors hardly cure anything other than various infections and parasites and you know it.

most medical doctors you see will write you a script for some medication designed to treat the symptoms of conditions... that's partly due to the public being brainwashed into believing that they actually do need the medications they see ads about on tv and the md wants to make their patients happy, the other part has to do with the little kickbacks md's get from giving out samples and prescribing certain drugs.

Eits, I think you forget who one of your best supporters in this debate is. I have to take offense at your statement above. There is no need to attack nonsurgical medicine, to argue your position. Like all facets of medicine and science, chiropractic medicine will be able to support some of its theories and evolve to incorporate more data as time goes by.

i'm not attacking... i'm just making a broad generalization that, for the most part, prescriptions are not cures... they're medicines designed to treat symptoms of problems rather than the problem.

it's completely understandable why, too... with so many people with ailments who complain about symptoms, it's easier to treat the symptom to make them feel better and send them on their way. that's why people come to doctors anyways... to feel better. most people aren't concerned about what's really wrong with them, just how to make the pain/whatever go away.

it was what turned me off of med school and made me more interested in chiropractic.

What you dont understand is that if there WAS a cure for those diseases, drugs would be made for that. The only reason MDs are only treating the symptom for some diseases is because we dont have cures so the next option is to control symptoms and wait and see what happens

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: ja1484
Because it has very little research base behind its claims. Lack of evidence. Plain and simple.

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
I see you're going to address points made by others but you've given up on me. Please show credible studies or meta analyses that show efficacy in treating anything other than back and neck pain.

This.

http://www.dynamicchiropractic.com/mpacms/dc/crr/

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: MrMatt
Well long before I knew there was debate about chiropractic I worked for a company that handled disability insurance claims. I just handled one of the steps in the process. Of all the claims that came across my desk (100s per week), about 35-40% of them seemed to be from chiropracters. I don't mean patients who said that their chiropracter said they should be on disability or were permanently disabled. I mean claims from chiropracters saying they needed to go on disability, and out of that 35-40% about 90% of them said they needed to be on permanent disability. I brought this up with a manager asking if we just had a lot of clients who were chiropracters. She said that no, but that chiropracters were largely quacks.


Since then I've seen both sides of the argument. Part of me thinks its psychosomatic, but it's hard to argue with someone who says they haven't been able to do thing XYZ for months/years until a series of chiro visits.

So I really don't know. Maybe because the science is relatively new it allows a disproportionate number of quacks in. Doesn't mean everyone who does it is fake.

excellent post

 

[ja1484]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: ja1484
Because it has very little research base behind its claims. Lack of evidence. Plain and simple.

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
I see you're going to address points made by others but you've given up on me. Please show credible studies or meta analyses that show efficacy in treating anything other than back and neck pain.

This.

http://www.dynamicchiropractic.com/mpacms/dc/crr/

I am aware there are many medium to low quality studies regarding the efficacy of chiropratic, and very few meta-analyses and systematic reviews.

That was kind of the point.

Edit: Upon further investigation, it's also kind of annoying that that site tries to take techniques used by many disciplines (manual therapy, for example) and pass them off "chiropractic techniques".

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Beev
eits, you claim in the OP this is for chiro questions, but all you're doing is arguing why it's a "real" profession. I asked a legitimate curiosity question and you ignored it =/

i never ignored your question... if i did, it was unintentional. can you restate your question?

As a chiropractor, you no doubt make less than a regular doctor. Why didn't you go to school an extra few years and make ten times as much?

?? i don't get it.

What made you want to be a chiropractor rather than a more common, higher paid doctor?

i was confused because you said something like "why didn't go to school a few more years"... chiropractic school takes longer than med school, that's why i was confused.

after being all about med school for a semester, i realized that they weren't really treating anything other than symptoms and the only way to actually FIX things in the medical world was to be a surgeon. i didn't like the idea of being a surgeon because i was more family oriented and a didn't want to always be on call.

so, i found out about chiropractic and realized that you could actually treat people's problems rather than just symptoms without having to drug people. so, i enrolled in chiropractic school and realized i was learning the same stuff as med school students were learning, just with more of an emphasis on anatomy and physiology and less on pharmacology.

wanting to treat people was never really about the money for me... it was about the happiness i feel whenever i make someone else's life better.

You probalby should have done a little bit more research before settling on that ridiculous statement. It's a shame because your chiro training probably just perpetuated the misconception that MDs just hand out a lot of drugs to mask symptoms rather than cure patients

unless you're a surgeon, medical doctors hardly cure anything other than various infections and parasites and you know it.

most medical doctors you see will write you a script for some medication designed to treat the symptoms of conditions... that's partly due to the public being brainwashed into believing that they actually do need the medications they see ads about on tv and the md wants to make their patients happy, the other part has to do with the little kickbacks md's get from giving out samples and prescribing certain drugs.

Lol what are you talking about. Every medical field other than diagnostics cures disease.

Oncology: I'm sure you've heard of it...
Cardio: Statins lower cholesterol---> prevents heart disease. Interventional cards can open a embolic coronary--> cures your "heart attack".
GI: Colonoscopy-->Find polyp, kill polyp, prevent cancer.

There are plenty of diseases that are incurable but are well managed by modern medicine. You guys have the luxury of cherry picking the cases you want and giving us the incurable cases, then turn around and say we dont cure anyone. Quite hypocritical.

name a few diseases and cures for me.

Onc: Prolactinoma --> give bromocriptine
Cardio: PDA --> give indomethacin
GI: Rectal polyp --> endoscopic removal (which gastroenterologists can do, not surgeons)

So, what chiro treatments would you prescribe for those?

those drugs didn't cure the problem... if you stop giving the drug, the symptoms still occur... therefore, not cured (except for the endoscopic removal of rectal polyps, which is an invasive procedure)

none of those are chiropractic issues, so i'd refer them to the appropriate practitioner (oncologist, cardiologist, gi).

again, since apparently i haven't said it enough for it to sink in yet, chiropractors don't cure anything! they try and address the problem that causes the symptoms. that doesn't mean they're "cured"... after a while, the problem could reoccur, thereby causing the symptoms again (kinda like a patient of mine who had 8/10 pain from neurogenic claudication from scs. i treated him about 4 weeks and he felt like new again and didn't come back to keep things in check... he called me finally a few months ago complaining that the pain came back again (about 2 months after the last time i saw him)... i treated him again and the pain went away after like 3 visits. he started coming in once a month for an adjustment to make sure it doesn't come back. so far, it hasn't.).

did my adjustments cure him? no... it simply removed the problem, thereby stopping the symptoms, without using medications. it lasted for two months or so and then it came back.

 

[TecHNooB]

Poor eits, defending chiropractic against the legions of ATOT. Go cure some spinal related pains and illnesses and prove us all wrong!

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: eits
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.g...bmed&pubmedid=11599329
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11VN2sGMdbI
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu...tPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Are you kidding me?! This keeps getting better and better. The first pubmed article you linked above shows the number of stroke resulting from chiropractic adjustments, and says NOTHING about the efficacy of chiropractic. If you're patting yourself on the back because stroke resulting from your profession are relatively low then that's just sad. The second article is a meta analysis of referrals to chiropractors, homeopaths and acupuncturists from medical doctors and again says absolutely NOTHING about efficacy. Are you even trying anymore?

Edit - please trim your quotes eits.

i'm not taking time to read through a bunch of studies right now... i'm trying to take care of a household.

i posted links that i thought you'd find interesting. i wasn't trying to answer anyone's questions by posting those links.