Child support in the era of abortion

[Bird222]

Here's a slight tangent...

What can the mother do if she had multiple partners around the same time and does not know who the father was when she conceived? Assume everyone involved is unmarried/not engaged/not in a domestic partnership. How would she be entitled to child support in that case? Does welfare work in lieu of child support or if she is already on welfare, would that entitle her to more money on top of the welfare? Will she be required/able to petition for child support and, if so, how would she collect child support not knowing who the real father is?

The court would order a DNA test to find the father.

 

[HumblePie]

Meh, the solution to this is simple.

Go Demolition man. Make it illegal to have a child outside of a hospital setting Only through a binding contract and In Vitro could anyone have a child. Then make all restaurants Taco Bell.

 

[cybrsage]

Some of you people need to accept that men and women do not have equal rights when it comes to a child because men and women don't bear equal responsibility when it comes to birthing a child. A woman has to carry the child inside her for 9 months, and the man doesn't, so trying to pretend that they are equal is insane. The woman has more say, and that is just the way it is. We're not talking about dropping by the pet store and picking up a puppy together.

True, but if she wants the repsonsibility and he does not, he should not be forced to take responsibility anyway simply because she wants it.

 

[CitizenKain]

They have to? It's a fucking choice, if she doesn't want the kid, she doesn't have to carry it. They already have all the control in the world, but apparently it's not enough for you libotards - you'd rather she shifted the cost and expenses of her choice on someone else.

You mean put the costs and expenses on the other person responsible for the child.

True, but if she wants the repsonsibility and he does not, he should not be forced to take responsibility anyway simply because she wants it.

Why? Its his child.

Amazing how deadbeat dads are some sort of role model for the rightwing now.

 

[momeNt]

True, but if she wants the repsonsibility and he does not, he should not be forced to take responsibility anyway simply because she wants it.

A man does not have agency over his own body, this includes his life, his liberty, or his property.

I love these abortion threads, real page turners.

 

[Thump553]

These same three arguments have ben made over and over again in the decades since Roe v. Wade. And guess what-not a single state has abolished child support-and it's safe to say they never will.

As far as the man's voice in the childbirth decision-go back and actually read Roe v. Wade, that's throughly discussed there.

 

[Raizinman]

Likewise, men don't have a say-so on abortion. A good friend of mine got a girl pregnant and he wanted the baby and she did not. She aborted it.

As for child support, how many other debts between person to person does the state get involved in and put people in prison. Only child support. There is conflicting statutes that prevent states from getting involved in debt collection. There is a whole section of law for debt collection.

 

[cybrsage]

Why? Its his child.

Yet it magically stops being his if the woman want to abort it.


It is only his child if the woman decides, on a whim, that it is his child and he must pay for it for 18 years. If she suddenly changes her mind, it is no longer his child and he has no say in the matter of its life or death.

A woman gets to ditch responsibility at a whim, a man has no say at all. This is called equality for some reason.

 

[momeNt]

Yet it magically stops being his if the woman want to abort it.
Good call...not.

The argument there is that the abortion is not about the child, it is about the woman's right to her body. It's her body entirely, but her child partly, this is why the man has no say in the abortion, because he has no say over her body, but he must pay for the child because it is partly his.

On the abortion side of things though, what is reasonable compensation that the woman should have to pay the man for aborting a pregnancy that was nurturing a fetus that was partly his? I think we also need "Lost Fatherhood Support".

 

[cybrsage]

The argument there is that the abortion is not about the child, it is about the woman's right to her body. It's her body entirely, but her child partly, this is why the man has no say in the abortion, because he has no say over her body, but he must pay for the child because it is partly his.

On the abortion side of things though, what is reasonable compensation that the woman should have to pay the man for aborting a pregnancy that was nurturing a fetus that was partly his? I think we also need "Lost Fatherhood Support".

Hmmm...now that is a good point. If the man wants the baby but the woman aborts it, he should get just compensation for the relationship he lost - the love he will never have, etc.

That would make it more fair.

 

[Munky]

You mean put the costs and expenses on the other person responsible for the child.

The other person had no say in the decision to keep the kid.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

More fair?

Dude, you might as well give up on this notion of making child-carrying "Fair" unless you've discovered a method to give men a uterus. Biology doesn't care about your notions of sexism.

And lets be blunt here - men do not carry that child in their bodies for 9 months, nor do they put their life on the line during that pregnancy and child birth. A man's desire to keep a child does not come with those risks attached. It is not an equivalent to a woman's desire to keep a child.


Both partners have a very very clear way to decide not to have a child. Don't have sex. Women get an extra option, grim as it may be, but they also get lots more risk. No man has ever died during childbirth.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

It is not an equivalent to a woman's desire to keep a child.

lack of equivalency doesn't mean total lack of value.

 

[cybrsage]

Both partners have a very very clear way to decide not to have a child. Don't have sex. Women get an extra option, grim as it may be, but they also get lots more risk. No man has ever died during childbirth.

Better watch out, you are use an anti-abortion reasoning as your reason for saying men have no rights.

 

[CallMeJoe]

...Amazing how deadbeat dads are some sort of role model for the rightwing now.

Are you talking about Tea Party hero Congressman Joe Walsh?

 

[Jhhnn]

Are you talking about Tea Party hero Congressman Joe Walsh?

He even got a pro-family award from the right wing front group, Family Research Council.

Way to go, Joe! Taking responsibility for your own actions!

 

[AnubisZero]

So what if the mother eventually gives the kid to the father to be the legal guardian and he does not make enough income. Is the mother obligated to pay child support?

The court would order a DNA test to find the father.

Are there instances when the father(s) in question can evade DNA testing? Assume one or more of the potential fathers have all moved to different states and the mother doesn't remember their last names but maybe saved a phone number which has been changed. Would the court typically go through all that investigation to track them down? And thanks for the response.

 

[Blackjack200]

Are there instances when the father(s) in question can evade DNA testing? Assume one or more of the potential fathers have all moved to different states and the mother doesn't remember their last names and lost all contact info on them. Would the court typically go through all that investigation to track them down? And thanks for the response.

I'm not 100% sure on this but I believe the judge can order a DNA test. If the man does not submit, the judge can hold him in contempt and put out a warrant for his arrest.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

It would seem that compelling a DNA test would be compelling someone to testify against themselves.

 

[CitizenKain]

The other person had no say in the decision to keep the kid.

Well, maybe they should invent a way for men to become pregnant then. The whole crux of is that people like you want consequence free sex, but only on your terms. Since you regard women as property, this really confuses you when it turns out that things don't work that way.

 

[Lithium381]

What is the legality of a pre-nup in this situation? Before performing the 'act' both parties agree to their future responsibilities. I think i saw a skit about this some 6 years ago as a spoof, but contracts should be made, leaving no possibility of mis-understandings.

 

[Munky]

Well, maybe they should invent a way for men to become pregnant then. The whole crux of is that people like you want consequence free sex, but only on your terms. Since you regard women as property, this really confuses you when it turns out that things don't work that way.

I got a better idea. Maybe you should invent a way for women to take responsibility for their own actions, and get a job instead of being a deadbeat mom, leaching off some guy.

 

[CitizenKain]

I got a better idea. Maybe you should invent a way for women to take responsibility for their own actions, and get a job instead of being a deadbeat mom, leaching off some guy.

You mean the guy who fathered the child. Says a lot about you that think being a deadbeat is a good thing, must have been the way you were raised.

 

[Munky]

You mean the guy who fathered the child. Says a lot about you that think being a deadbeat is a good thing, must have been the way you were raised.

No, I meant the mom. Funny how you try to offload the responsibility on the dad, when he had absolutely no legal right to decide whether to keep the kid or not.

 

[Darwin333]

You mean put the costs and expenses on the other person responsible for the child.

I think he means equally sharing the option to be responsible for a child before that child is born.

Why? Its his child.

Amazing how deadbeat dads are some sort of role model for the rightwing now.

[/quote]

While I am neither a rightwinger nor a deadbeat dad (both my daughters live with me and what I pay for my oldests travel ball alone in a months time is more than most people pay in child support), I agree with his comment.

If a woman can make the choice, with zero input from the father, to forgo her responsibilities as a parent a man should have the same choice in the same time frame. He gives up any and all rights to the child and in return is not liable for any of the costs. Just like the woman can remove her responsibilities by either aborting the child or giving it up for adoption.

Its actually the same argument. Its "his" body so why should the law be able to force him to use "his body" (especially someone who works in the field) to support a child yet a woman is allowed to choose because it is "her body"?