Caterpillar to IL, stop it or we leave

[Acanthus]

since they are going to do nothing for me with the extra? yeah.

we already have high fees, way higher than any of the surrounding states(WI, IND, MO) dont know about kentucky or IOWA but there isnt much in either.....

its not all about taxes, its about fees and cost of doing business with the state, and that already costs ALOT in IL.


but have fun in chicago, when your rent on a 700sf studio is more than my mortgage + property taxes

I guess if you cant wait to move to that shithole, your views are already compromised. I moved my wife out of the chicago burbs and she thought it was the end of the world, for about 6 months....now she loves it outside of the city and south of I-80

I wont live down town. That's silly.

 

[Zargon]

Quite a bit, it seems, but they don't know what Europe is? This is EU nations?

Anyway, high speed railway is cheaper, faster, better, and once built... there it IS!

US economy is like a fortune teller using soap bubbles instead of a crystal ball, everyone want to sell her cheap soap but in the long run, both her and everyone who used her services would be better off if the fast solution was disregarded and the lasting crystal ball was bought originally.

So no one want to invest in any long term project in the US, it'd pay off over time, especially since gas prices will eventually start to hurt A LOT, but if you can't see beyond the inch, you'll never be able to walk a mile.

it *might*

our regular rail system is an utter failure, high speed has a chance in a few places maybe. I would use it a few times year maybe, if I was on a line, to visit family in chicago, thats about it.

If they can't do it on the east coast and make some $$$, then it wont work anywhere in the US, thats for sure, its about the most dense and has godawful weather in the winter that can make cars completely useless.

I live in BFE compared to there, so its not funneling my way anytime soon.


the other issue is its seen as a business, not an infrastructure product like roads.

 

[Zargon]

I wont live down town. That's silly.

so you meant the burbs, not chicago then

my in laws moved from an OK suburb out of their 400K 1700 sf townhome to go downtown.

everything around there costs too much ^_^


That wouldnt even bother me THAT much if the local politicians didnt spend all their time trying to screw you out of your rights and monitor you 24/7.

 

[werepossum]

It is also one of best places to live. I can't wait to graduate and move to Chicago.

Would you call 9.5% taxes oppressive? Really?

Combined state and federal corporate tax in Illinois is now 41.2%. Sound oppressive now? If not, Chicago is waiting for you. I'd hold off on buying that house near* the Caterpillar plant though, 'cause prices could be dropping soon.

*Near being defined here as in/near any town or city with a significant Caterpillar presence.

 

[Acanthus]

Combined state and federal corporate tax in Illinois is now 41.2%. Sound oppressive now? If not, Chicago is waiting for you. I'd hold off on buying that house near* the Caterpillar plant though, 'cause prices could be dropping soon.

*Near being defined here as in/near any town or city with a significant Caterpillar presence.

No corporation pays full federal tax.

Look at the dailytech story on GE. LOL.

 

[werepossum]

No corporation pays full federal tax.

Look at the dailytech story on GE. LOL.

Which explains why our government is run by lobbyists. Politicians set up very high corporate tax rates; corporations set up funds to buy politicians. While this leads to very wealthy politicians, it also sets up institutionalized corruption.

Corporations pass along taxes in either higher product prices, or lower dividends/lower stock value to stockholders. There should be NO corporate taxes and VERY strict examination of what are legitimate expenses and what should be taxed as compensation to officers and employees.

 

[Fern]

Quite a bit, it seems, but they don't know what Europe is? This is EU nations?

Anyway, high speed railway is cheaper, faster, better, and once built... there it IS!
-snip-

I lived in Europe and used the trains/buses/metro (or 'tube' for you) often. The high speed trains less so. Those they had often didn't go where I needed. But when they do, it sure is nice.

But lately I've been wonder why those in Europe use them. I mean for what purpose?

For business purposes?

For holiday?

To visit relatives?

Who is using them, (foreign) tourists or Europeans?

I know in Japan many workers use them to commute.

Looking over that list of reasons to use it, I see it only being beneficial in very limited circumstances.

Trying to search for these answers, I came across the below. It doesn't look like they are as successful as advertised, even in Europe with a well developed 'feeder' network of traditonal trains etc.

Nor are high-speed rail lines particularly environmentally friendly. Planners have predicted that a proposed line in Florida would use more energy and emit more of some pollutants than all of the cars it would take off the road. California planners forecast that high-speed rail would reduce pollutionand greenhouse gas emissions by a mere 0.7 to 1.5 percent—but only if ridership reached the high end of projected levels. Lower ridership would nullify energy savings and pollution reductions.

These assessments are confirmed by the actual experience of high-speed rail lines in Japan and Europe. Since Japan introduced high-speed bullet trains, passenger rail has lost more than half its market share to the automobile. Since Italy, France, and other European countries opened their high-speed rail lines, rail's market share in Europe has dwindled from 8.2 to 5.8 percent of travel. If high-speed rail doesn't work in Japan and Europe, how can it work in the United States?

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9753

I also wonder if the time for trains has passed, at least as regards use for business purposes. We can collaborate and/or hold conferences over the internet etc.

Perhaps we should be looking at new technologies that are much more flexible and less expensive to fullfill the transporation role of trains. Trains are hundreds of years old, might be time to move on to something newer and better.

Fern

 

[Acanthus]

I lived in Europe and used the trains/buses/metro (or 'tube' for you) often. The high speed trains less so. Those they had often didn't go where I needed. But when they do, it sure is nice.

But lately I've been wonder why those in Europe use them. I mean for what purpose?

For business purposes?

For holiday?

To visit relatives?

Who is using them, (foreign) tourists or Europeans?

I know in Japan many workers use them to commute.

Looking over that list of reasons to use it, I see it only being beneficial in very limited circumstances.

Trying to search for these answers, I came across the below. It doesn't look like they are as successful as advertised, even in Europe with a well developed 'feeder' network of traditonal trains etc.



http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9753

I also wonder if the time for trains has passed, at least as regards use for business purposes. We can collaborate and/or hold conferences over the internet etc.

Perhaps we should be looking at new technologies that are much more flexible and less expensive to fullfill the transporation role of trains. Trains are hundreds of years old, might be time to move on to something newer and better.

Fern

Cato is a republican economics think tank. Just a heads up that they are extremely one-sided with their analysis.

 

[classy]

Then there is the other side of the coin where corporations pit cities, states, countries against each other in a race to see who can give the biggest tax breaks or incentives.

And sadly even then most of them don't pay any taxes. But leave it to the sheep like spidey to keep repeating the stupid talking points.

 

[HeXen]

oh, so that's why one of caterpillars contractors built a factory in my area

 

[CycloWizard]

Health insurance? Oil companies?

What happens when you decide you're no longer going to buy the product of health insurers and oil companies because the price is simply too high?

 

[nonlnear]

What happens when you decide you're no longer going to buy the product of health insurers and oil companies because the price is simply too high?

Are you asserting that you should have a choice about buying health insurance? You wicked fascist racist.

 

[Naeeldar]

What do you mean "coming along in Russia"? They are all over Eastern Europe and most of Russia too.

Well if you don't mean the third generation, that is not used much anywhere yet.

You do realise that that last part of your post now applies to you?

Yes son, that is the way the internet works, don't cry.

Wow you are full of fail today. Tiger's blood not helping?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_Europe#Russia

There are only a few high speed rails Operational in Russia. They are particular use for imports... not even designed for domestic travel.

Guess what the US has a few high speed rails as well. One of them is on the east coast and runs from DC and up north. I live in the Philadelphia suburbs and the damn thing is still too expensive to be worthwhile.

Again high speed rails works with population density. We just don't have it in the US. Even the New York pub tranist system operations at a loss each year. That should tell you something.

 

[JS80]

Cato is a republican economics think tank. Just a heads up that they are extremely correct with their analysis.

FTFY

 

[Acanthus]

FTFY

Actually a lot of their ideas are smashed to pieces by economists.

I wouldn't take an institute with a large endowment from the GOP very seriously.

Just as i wouldn't take a DNC funded think tank seriously on the other side.

 

[Steeplerot]

I lived in Europe and used the trains/buses/metro (or 'tube' for you) often. The high speed trains less so. Those they had often didn't go where I needed. But when they do, it sure is nice.

But lately I've been wonder why those in Europe use them. I mean for what purpose?

For business purposes?

For holiday?

To visit relatives?

Who is using them, (foreign) tourists or Europeans?

I know in Japan many workers use them to commute.

Looking over that list of reasons to use it, I see it only being beneficial in very limited circumstances.

Trying to search for these answers, I came across the below. It doesn't look like they are as successful as advertised, even in Europe with a well developed 'feeder' network of traditonal trains etc.



http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9753

I also wonder if the time for trains has passed, at least as regards use for business purposes. We can collaborate and/or hold conferences over the internet etc.

Perhaps we should be looking at new technologies that are much more flexible and less expensive to fullfill the transporation role of trains. Trains are hundreds of years old, might be time to move on to something newer and better.

Fern

Charles G. Koch co-founded the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank based in *snip*

Calling it corporate propaganda is being kind. Bullshit partisan economics is more like it.

If you guys are actually reading/buying that shit I hate to tell ya, but you've been played.

 

[Steeplerot]

You are just pissed because Reagan toppled your Soviet Union.

Reagan couldn't topple his shoelaces in 91 much less topple "my" USSR. Get a clue. :hmm:

 

[Zebo]

Race to the bottom.

I say slap about 400% tarriffs on everything coming in because things like 40 wk weeks, retirements, Saturday BBQs and softball games, clean environment, safe workplaces etc are cost of doing business in USA. Basic economics. If you're so stupid you want none of that go for it. I'll see you with the rest of third world squalor begging to eek out an existence for your labors.

You're truly paid what you are worth in a democracy. Guess american don't think they are worth much -Cue moonbeam self-hate.

 

[Zebo]

BTW - What's up with the dick slurping? you think CAT is the only ones who can design and build a earthmover? It's pretty trivial, any middle management or engineer can do it (they do it), and labor builds it, what they have is politicians ear with massive profit to sell y'all out.

 

[Zargon]

BTW - What's up with the dick slurping? you think CAT is the only ones who can design and build a earthmover? It's pretty trivial, any middle management or engineer can do it (they do it), and labor builds it, what they have is politicians ear with massive profit to sell y'all out.

if CAT moves its likely no one is going to move in and fill the vacumn.

 

[CycloWizard]

Are you asserting that you should have a choice about buying health insurance? You wicked fascist racist.

I'm surprised I wasn't locked up by BP when my wife bought a Prius. I'm still waiting for the oil companies to send black helicopters...

 

[CycloWizard]

Race to the bottom.

I say slap about 400% tarriffs on everything coming in because things like 40 wk weeks, retirements, Saturday BBQs and softball games, clean environment, safe workplaces etc are cost of doing business in USA. Basic economics. If you're so stupid you want none of that go for it. I'll see you with the rest of third world squalor begging to eek out an existence for your labors.

You're truly paid what you are worth in a democracy. Guess american don't think they are worth much -Cue moonbeam self-hate.

Then the price of goods will skyrocket at a time when people have less and less money to spend on them.

 

[Acanthus]

Then the price of goods will skyrocket at a time when people have less and less money to spend on them.

Except that the incentive for domestic production would create jobs locally and improve the economic situation of the United States over the long term.

In the short term budget shortfalls would be closed by revenue from tarriffs, thus preventing severe goverment layoffs.

From a jobs perspective the US stands to benefit fantastically from protectionist policies against 3rd world labor.

The only relevant claim against it i have seen, is that it will likely destabilize things in China, India, and Sub-Saharan Africa where we are employing our slaves.

 

[ShawnD1]

Except that the incentive for domestic production would create jobs locally and improve the economic situation of the United States over the long term.

In the short term budget shortfalls would be closed by revenue from tarriffs, thus preventing severe goverment layoffs.

That's how the rest of the world works. Japan, German, Norway, Netherlands, Canada, South Korea all have positive trade balances by encouraging domestic production. Goods in those countries are very expensive because everything is either made in country or it has high taxes on it because it's an import.

 

[1prophet]

I agree completely. Too bad a majority of the country thinks science is subjective and the rapture is coming anyways so why bother...

You can thank Hollywood and television for the way the intellectual and scientist is portrayed in America more than any ignorant religious group.