Caterpillar to IL, stop it or we leave

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Naeeldar

Senior member
Aug 20, 2001
854
1
81
A tenant of Free Market economies, is that a person does what is best for him. A Doctor, has long ago made the decision that he would like to help people.

Whether he makes any money on saving a persons life, is secondary to a Doctor. His only real interest is saving someones life.

This really isn't much different from any profession. You do the profession because you love it.

It's only Insurance, and Lawyers, and Government, that step in and tell you how you must treat a patient, bill a patient, interact with a patient, when things go wrong.

-John

You are a living a pipe dream. It most certainly does matter to a Doctor that they are paid. And if you doubt that a lot of Doctors are not in the profession for the money you are crazy.

People may do a profession because they love it. but they most certainly expect to be paid and if your smart, paid well.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
Then there is the other side of the coin where corporations pit cities, states, countries against each other in a race to see who can give the biggest tax breaks or incentives.

Then there is the other side where consumers pit corporations against each other in a race to see who can give the best product at the best price with the most incentives.

Are you trying to be cynical, or are you just finally waking up to how the world works? In order for you to have personal freedoms, it means that other people have freedoms too, including the people who run a given corporation.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Caterpillar can haul ass to Israel where they can make their crappy products for fundamentalist headcase settlers to mush Palestinians elsewhere and stop stinking this country up.

caterpillard9bulldozer.jpg

What is this bullshit? Something from some bladerunner futuristic hell?

The machinery of US corporate imperialism, coming soon to a neighborhood near you.
 
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Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,218
2
76
Caterpillar can haul ass to Israel where they can make their crappy products for fundamentalist headcase settlers to mush Palestinians elsewhere and stop stinking this country up.

What is this bullshit? Something from some bladerunner futuristic hell?

The machinery of US corporate imperialism, coming soon to a neighborhood near you.

not bullshit

bulldozer


geez
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
How much do you pay them? How did you arrive at that number?

Same way we arrive at amounts we pay teachers and policemen.
Reasonable amount to attract enough people into medicine.
Accredit more schools to drop barriers to entry.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Same way we arrive at amounts we pay teachers and policemen.
Reasonable amount to attract enough people into medicine.
Accredit more schools to drop barriers to entry.
So you want to decrease the quality of medical care? Or do you think you can keep it the same or even improve it by cutting wages and decreasing the rigor of training?
 

lord_emperor

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2009
1,380
1
0
Caterpillar can haul ass to Israel where they can make their crappy products for fundamentalist headcase settlers to mush Palestinians elsewhere and stop stinking this country up.

caterpillard9bulldozer.jpg

What is this bullshit? Something from some bladerunner futuristic hell?

The machinery of US corporate imperialism, coming soon to a neighborhood near you.

HOLY ****!

I want one...
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
So you want to decrease the quality of medical care? Or do you think you can keep it the same or even improve it by cutting wages and decreasing the rigor of training?

Actually, if you are thinking the supply of doctors is the problem you can easily fix it.

The AMA artificially keeps the flow of doctors low to stifle the supply.

Have every state school in the country add a medical school.

Doctors wages aren't a major part of the problem, though. Administration, insurance, and fraud are.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Actually, if you are thinking the supply of doctors is the problem you can easily fix it.

The AMA artificially keeps the flow of doctors low to stifle the supply.

Have every state school in the country add a medical school.

Doctors wages aren't a major part of the problem, though. Administration, insurance, and fraud are.
Don't bother to address anything I said. Instead, make completely unrelated arguments. That's not even a strawman because even a strawman should be related to my statements in some way.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
So you want to decrease the quality of medical care? Or do you think you can keep it the same or even improve it by cutting wages and decreasing the rigor of training?

Developed countries get same or better results at roughly half the cost.
And yes, it can be improved by decreasing the average training for a practitioner by having a mix of degrees and triaging patients to the appropriate level of expertise needed for the seriousness of their condition. Just like you don't need every engineer to be a PhD, you shouldn't need a doctorate to give out Z-packs and aspirins.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Developed countries get same or better results at roughly half the cost.
And yes, it can be improved by decreasing the average training for a practitioner by having a mix of degrees and triaging patients to the appropriate level of expertise needed for the seriousness of their condition. Just like you don't need every engineer to be a PhD, you shouldn't need a doctorate to give out Z-packs and aspirins.
How do you define "results?" Patient satisfaction? Average lifespan? Cost:lifespan ratio? The US has been #1 in patient satisfaction in every study I've ever seen (admittedly, I haven't seen one for a while). The others are obviously more complex than a simple attribution to the healthcare delivery system in a given nation, as genetic, environmental, and cultural factors all play very large roles.

There are already nurses and PAs which have less educational requirement than an MD but can write some prescriptions and do things with patients. They are legally barred from doing a lot of things they are perfectly capable of doing, and a physician is often required to do mundane tasks simply because of liability issues. Again, the problem is not in the delivery system but in the government interference with that system. The same thing goes for costs as I have already mentioned: some government personage sets a price for a procedure and that's the price for that procedure. Insurers base their compensation on the prices set by government for Medicare reimbursement.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
About half the posters in this thread need to read "wealth of nations" by god father of capitalism himself adam smith. The perverted "wealth of a few men" you advocate is isa one way ticket to the third world.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
About half the posters in this thread need to read "wealth of nations" by god father of capitalism himself adam smith. The perverted "wealth of a few men" you advocate is isa one way ticket to the third world.
I haven't seen anyone mention that at all. This thread is about a state raising taxes by a ridiculous amount and a company telling them to piss off, then moving.
 

spacelord

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 2002
2,127
0
71
They did move at least one of their lines down to Texas from Illinois. Cost them a butt-load of money to move it.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
Race to the bottom.

I say slap about 400% tarriffs on everything coming in because things like 40 wk weeks, retirements, Saturday BBQs and softball games, clean environment, safe workplaces etc are cost of doing business in USA. Basic economics. If you're so stupid you want none of that go for it. I'll see you with the rest of third world squalor begging to eek out an existence for your labors.

You're truly paid what you are worth in a democracy. Guess american don't think they are worth much -Cue moonbeam self-hate.

No need.

Trade among first-world nations is close enough to being trade between equals that you can ignore any need for protectionism.

So free trade between USA, Japan, Canada, the EU, etc makes perfect sense.

There's no particular need for import protections, because there's no capital in under-developed nations to fund domestic industrial manufacturing.

So: place a massive 'import tarriff' on the profits of foreign investment, but leave trade in goods free. Problem solved.
 

Eos

Diamond Member
Jun 14, 2000
3,463
17
81
Last I checked, Texas has an extremely valid issue with Amazon. As do a bunch of other states where Amazon deceptively skirts sales taxes by way of shell companies.

Amazon has a physical business presence in Texas. They have a distribution center in the Metroplex, that is owned by a shell company fully owned by them. If Texas ever filed a claim in court, Amazon would go down hard.

amzn distribution centers: Phoenix and Goodyear, AZ; New Castle, DE; Whitestown and Plainfield, IN; Coffeyville, KS; Campbellsville, Hebron (near Cincinnati), Lexington and Louisville, KY; Fernley and North Las Vegas, NV; Nashua, NH; Carlisle, Hazleton, Allentown, Lewisberry, PA; Chattanooga, TN; Sterling, VA; and Bellevue, WA.

No TX listed there.
 

gingermeggs

Golden Member
Dec 22, 2008
1,157
0
71
When will democrats fail to realize their polices force business to go elsewhere? If you have a big bully stealing your lunch money, and he keeps demanding more what do you do? Since said bully is protected by law you simply have to find another place to keep him from taking your money.

Now que the communists who think CAT is lucky to exist thanks to the workers. CAT can just say - FU, we're moving. There is a reason why we are the United States. When fucked up states do stupid shit we can go to anther state and the "fucked up state" can suffer the consequences of making "stupid shit" decisions. May the greatness of fuck be upon the former IL Senator.

Look at the failing states, correlate with their leadership. One thing is common - fucking democrats.
http://www.centralillinoisnewscente...ers-React-to-Possible-Cat-Move-118723719.html


You could reply back to that "Fuck you!" with Komatsu!!!!!
http://www.komatsuamerica.com/

A Kommy! lol
 

Trianon

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2000
1,789
0
71
www.conkurent.com
Pat Quinn is such a dolt... not even funny...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-0507-motorola-incentives-20110506,0,3405625.story

Gov. Pat Quinn put up more than $100 million in financial incentives to persuade smartphone company Motorola Mobility to keep its corporate headquarters in Libertyville — the largest package he has offered a company to date and a signal of how badly the state wants to hold on to high-tech jobs.

To persuade the maker of mobile devices and cable TV set-top boxes to stay, rather than move to California or Texas, state lawmakers sweetened terms of its tax-credit incentive program as it has for automakers, including Mitsubishi, and truck- and engine-manufacturers, including Navistar International Corp.

Navistar landed a $64.7 million package last year to keep its headquarters in Illinois, the second-largest deal during Quinn's tenure.

The deal, announced Friday, breaks down to about $34,750 for each of the 3,000 jobs Motorola Mobility has agreed to retain, considerably more than the $15,000 to $20,000 per job that is more typical when the state awards tax credits to keep or attract businesses.

"We don't want folks to leave," Quinn said. "We want them to stay and grow with great companies like Motorola."
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Pat Quinn is such a dolt... not even funny...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-0507-motorola-incentives-20110506,0,3405625.story
Quote:
Gov. Pat Quinn put up more than $100 million in financial incentives to persuade smartphone company Motorola Mobility to keep its corporate headquarters in Libertyville — the largest package he has offered a company to date and a signal of how badly the state wants to hold on to high-tech jobs.

To persuade the maker of mobile devices and cable TV set-top boxes to stay, rather than move to California or Texas, state lawmakers sweetened terms of its tax-credit incentive program as it has for automakers, including Mitsubishi, and truck- and engine-manufacturers, including Navistar International Corp.

Navistar landed a $64.7 million package last year to keep its headquarters in Illinois, the second-largest deal during Quinn's tenure.

The deal, announced Friday, breaks down to about $34,750 for each of the 3,000 jobs Motorola Mobility has agreed to retain, considerably more than the $15,000 to $20,000 per job that is more typical when the state awards tax credits to keep or attract businesses.

"We don't want folks to leave," Quinn said. "We want them to stay and grow with great companies like Motorola."

Now every company wants the same $100 million deal

Sears wants money or they will leave Hoffman Estates which is next to Motorola

5-9-11

http://www.suntimes.com/5273521-537/sears-considers-moving-out-of-hoffman-estates.html

Sears considers moving out of Hoffman Estates


Sears Holdings Corp.’s confirmation Monday that it is considering leaving Illinois could push the fiscally crippled state to dole out incentives to another major company.


In 1989, Sears leveraged the possibility of moving to North Carolina to earn tax breaks that led it to leave Sears Tower (now Willis Tower) in the Loop for its Hoffman Estates campus, said Hoffman Estates Mayor William McLeod.


This time, rivals include Georgia, New Jersey, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas, sources said.
The threat looms large: Sears, a 125-year-old mail-order pioneer and retail institution, is the Chicago area’s fourth-largest publicly traded company by revenue ($43.3 billion in fiscal 2010). The parent of Sears and Kmart employs 280,000 in North America, including 6,200 at its 200-acre Prairie Stone campus.


Sears is Hoffman Estates’ largest employer, with more than twice the work force of the next-largest employer, and creates 9,000 ancillary jobs throughout the suburbs, McLeod said.


The news follows Illinois’ $7 million tax credit to keep U.S. Cellular Corp., a $19 million tax break to Continental Tire, $65 million in tax breaks to keep Navistar and $100 million in tax incentives to retain Motorola Mobility’s Libertyville headquarters.



Gov. Quinn also scrambled to assure Caterpillar that Illinois is a business-friendly state.
 
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spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
So let me get this straight. The governor massively raises taxes because they spend too much money, that forces business to want to leave, and in order to convince them to stay and put up with the high taxes the state has to spend even more money or offer tax breaks?

Talk about a downward spiral.