Caterpillar to IL, stop it or we leave

[spidey07]

When will democrats fail to realize their polices force business to go elsewhere? If you have a big bully stealing your lunch money, and he keeps demanding more what do you do? Since said bully is protected by law you simply have to find another place to keep him from taking your money.

Now que the communists who think CAT is lucky to exist thanks to the workers. CAT can just say - FU, we're moving. There is a reason why we are the United States. When fucked up states do stupid shit we can go to anther state and the "fucked up state" can suffer the consequences of making "stupid shit" decisions. May the greatness of fuck be upon the former IL Senator.

Look at the failing states, correlate with their leadership. One thing is common - fucking democrats.
http://www.centralillinoisnewscente...ers-React-to-Possible-Cat-Move-118723719.html

In the letter sent March 21, Oberhelman tells Quinn, "we certainly never considered the possibility of Caterpillar relocating, but I have to admit, the policymakers in Springfield seem to make it harder by the day."

Those policymakers from the previous general assembly approved a 66-percent income tax hike, making Illinois one of the most expensive states in the county to do business in.

Oberhelman went on to tell Quinn he's been wined and dined by at least four other states to move Cat there including Texas, Indiana, New Jersey and Wisconsin.

 

[jackace]

Then there is the other side of the coin where corporations pit cities, states, countries against each other in a race to see who can give the biggest tax breaks or incentives.

 

[spidey07]

Then there is the other side of the coin where corporations pit cities, states, countries against each other in a race to see who can give the biggest tax breaks or incentives.

Yes. And that is how free market works. Its beautiful.

 

[Schadenfroh]

I would not operate a manufacturing plant in any state that does not have a right-to-work law, if I could help it.

 

[wuliheron]

That's right, we could all still be working in cotton mills and producing cheap plastic crap like the Chinese if it weren't for those damn democrats constantly insisting making it hard for businesses to stay.

Get real. Like any business states go through boom and bust cycles, two steps forward and only one backwards if they are lucky. The idea is not to attract and keep every business in the world, but the ones that suit your needs at the time. With the changing economy everybody is shuffling to reorganize and that means business themselves are considering moving even if the state they are in happens to make no tax increases whatsoever. No doubt some are even considering moving overseas as we speak but, of course, like any good politician they have to blame someone else for the move rather then admit it has just become possible for them to make more money somewhere else.

 

[jackace]

Yes. And that is how free market works. Its beautiful.

Where does it stop though? That's the problem. The politicians get bought by the corporation who then wants this bought politician to give them an incentive or tax break to move jobs to their city, state, or country. The people who lose are the tax payers of the area.

 

[spidey07]

That's right, we could all still be working in cotton mills and producing cheap plastic crap like the Chinese if it weren't for those damn democrats constantly insisting making it hard for businesses to stay.

Get real. Like any business states go through boom and bust cycles, two steps forward and only one backwards if they are lucky. The idea is not to attract and keep every business in the world, but the ones that suit your needs at the time. With the changing economy everybody is shuffling to reorganize and that means business themselves are considering moving even if the state they are in happens to make no tax increases whatsoever. No doubt some are even considering moving overseas as we speak but, of course, like any good politician they have to blame someone else for the move rather then admit it has just become possible for them to make more money somewhere else.

Thanks for making the point. But we're talking state to state here. My guess is CAT will move to Wisconsin or other business friendly state. When a state forces business to move elsewhere via democrats to another state, that's what you call freedom. When a business is forced to move overseas that's called Obama.

The liberal experiment is OVER.

FBHO.

 

[spidey07]

Where does it stop though? That's the problem. The politicians get bought by the corporation who then wants this bought politician to give them an incentive or tax break to move jobs to their city, state, or country. The people who lose are the tax payers of the area.

So you're trying to say CAT has been bought out by IL legislators? Other states didn't convince them to move, IL FORCED them.

I also remember CAT telling the federal government meant what the healthcare law would do to them and what they needed to do - MOVE to another country.

It's common sense, if the bully (local, state, federal goverment) says give me more, the business will find a way to not keep getting hit in the face.

FBHO

 

[CycloWizard]

What new services will the state offer? Surely a 66% increase in tax must be accompanied by some increased benefit... right? Indiana or Wisconsin will be happy to have the business, and I think both have realized that raising taxes doesn't necessarily raise revenue.

 

[rudeguy]

Thanks for making the point. But we're talking state to state here. My guess is CAT will move to Wisconsin or other business friendly state. When a state forces business to move elsewhere via democrats to another state, that's what you call freedom. When a business is forced to move overseas that's called Obama.

The liberal experiment is OVER.

FBHO.

They already make CAT footwear here in MI and our government loves to give tax breaks to new companies. We have a strong workforce waiting for a place to punch in.

I wouldn't be surprised if MI would be in the running if CAT ever gets serious.

 

[rudeguy]

What new services will the state offer? Surely a 66% increase in tax must be accompanied by some increased benefit... right? Indiana or Wisconsin will be happy to have the business, and I think both have realized that raising taxes doesn't necessarily raise revenue.

what?

No. Increased taxes do not mean increased benefits.

 

[Vette73]

Yea they should go to Texas, the republicans sure showed amazon the love there.

 

[ShawnD1]

Where does it stop though? That's the problem. The politicians get bought by the corporation who then wants this bought politician to give them an incentive or tax break to move jobs to their city, state, or country. The people who lose are the tax payers of the area.

Not really. The way it works is you run low corporate taxes so the head honchos in Tokyo or Mexico or whatever decide that your state is where they will put their US manufacturing plant. This creates jobs. The workers who now have jobs pay income tax.
Moving a factory around or saying you'll build in Idaho instead of Washington is as easy as some asshole signing a piece of paper. It's important to cater to these people because they are the ones creating jobs.

You'll notice that "shit hole" countries like Germany have ridiculously high personal income taxes. Now you know why. Build the plant, allow the plant to be profitable and do well, then the workers pay the bulk of the taxes. It sure beats the hell out of being unemployed for months or years at a time.

 

[CycloWizard]

what?

No. Increased taxes do not mean increased benefits.

That was my point. What other industry can arbitrarily raise rates by 66% overnight and offer nothing in return?

 

[wayliff]

When will democrats fail to realize their polices force business to go elsewhere? If you have a big bully stealing your lunch money, and he keeps demanding more what do you do? Since said bully is protected by law you simply have to find another place to keep him from taking your money.

Now que the communists who think CAT is lucky to exist thanks to the workers. CAT can just say - FU, we're moving. There is a reason why we are the United States. When fucked up states do stupid shit we can go to anther state and the "fucked up state" can suffer the consequences of making "stupid shit" decisions. May the greatness of fuck be upon the former IL Senator.

Look at the failing states, correlate with their leadership. One thing is common - fucking democrats.
http://www.centralillinoisnewscente...ers-React-to-Possible-Cat-Move-118723719.html

are the democrats the only one making things worse? or is your republican team the only one making the right choices?
Feel free to grill both of them...

wait - i think i know the response...no need to elaborate.

 

[jackace]

So you're trying to say CAT has been bought out by IL legislators? Other states didn't convince them to move, IL FORCED them.

I also remember CAT telling the federal government meant what the healthcare law would do to them and what they needed to do - MOVE to another country.

It's common sense, if the bully (local, state, federal goverment) says give me more, the business will find a way to not keep getting hit in the face.

FBHO

That's not what I said at all. I was speaking in more general terms and based on what I have seen in my own state.

My question to you is where does this downward spiral stop?

 

[wuliheron]

Thanks for making the point. But we're talking state to state here. My guess is CAT will move to Wisconsin or other business friendly state. When a state forces business to move elsewhere via democrats to another state, that's what you call freedom. When a business is forced to move overseas that's called Obama.

The liberal experiment is OVER.

FBHO.

Liberal and conservative are just words that also change with the times. We are not a "democracy" of a minority of white male land owners anymore and Obama had nothing to do with that change either.

 

[Jhhnn]

What new services will the state offer? Surely a 66% increase in tax must be accompanied by some increased benefit... right? Indiana or Wisconsin will be happy to have the business, and I think both have realized that raising taxes doesn't necessarily raise revenue.

I dunno- sometimes when the price has been too low for too long for the benefits afforded. Gypsy businesses exploit that, demand concessions that are really unsustainable for the localities where they go. Sure, it looks good going in, and those locales put up a lot of money to improve infrastructure to accommodate their new pals, who move on to the next sucker or demand more concessions when when their host figures it out. At the extreme end, it's extortion and looting, externalizing expenses that should be internalized. Looters need to move on, after all, to find new victims, and the country is dotted with empty big box Walmarts, for example, who moved to the next town or the next county when they got a better deal...

It's not like Illinois is making it more expensive for Cat to be there, anyway, just more expensive for the employees, particularly the management, who live in Illinois.

 

[rudder]

Then there is the other side of the coin where corporations pit cities, states, countries against each other in a race to see who can give the biggest tax breaks or incentives.

That is how Tennessee became home to Nissan's HQ and a new VW plant. The thought process is the jobs produced will create tax revenue when people with these new jobs spend money. Likely it will take the state 20-30 years to break even.

 

[jackace]

That is how Tennessee became home to Nissan's HQ and a new VW plant. The thought process is the jobs produced will create tax revenue when people with these new jobs spend money. Likely it will take the state 20-30 years to break even.

What happens when another state under cuts Tennessee before they even reach a break even point, and jobs start leaving the area?

 

[feralkid]

What other industry can arbitrarily raise rates by 66% overnight and offer nothing in return?

Telecoms.

Agri-business.

Insurance.

 

[_GTech]

What we are hearing here is only the beginning of a string of changes coming down the line, when many states, especially where they have low populations, start to make adjustments to their programs & taxes because Federal Budget Cuts to State Supplies of Money, it's going to be interesting what notions, solutions, & laws they come up with...

I guess we will all see soon enough just how financially educated our leaders are, and if they run off all the businesses by raising taxes further, well, that's definitely not going to help anyone, including the state, surely...

I'm sure it's going to be costly to move a huge company somewhere else, especially overseas, but if it brings cheaper wages for the company that can help alleviate some of the cost, I'm sure the new area will receive them in open arms none the less!

It's just sad that some states cannot come up with creative solutions to their problems... Of course we seen in Wisconsin they are handling it all significantly differently!

 

[CycloWizard]

I dunno- sometimes when the price has been too low for too long for the benefits afforded. Gypsy businesses exploit that, demand concessions that are really unsustainable for the localities where they go. Sure, it looks good going in, and those locales put up a lot of money to improve infrastructure to accommodate their new pals, who move on to the next sucker or demand more concessions when when their host figures it out. At the extreme end, it's extortion and looting, externalizing expenses that should be internalized. Looters need to move on, after all, to find new victims, and the country is dotted with empty big box Walmarts, for example, who moved to the next town or the next county when they got a better deal...

It's not like Illinois is making it more expensive for Cat to be there, anyway, just more expensive for the employees, particularly the management, who live in Illinois.

You would think that governments everywhere would figure out that they should quit offering ridiculous packages for these companies. It's always easy to know which decision a business will make, as they have a very clear objective: making money. If you hurt their bottom line and they have a better alternative, they will leave. I'm not sure how that makes them equivalent to gypsies, but I guess in your mind business is inherently evil - on the same level as professional thieves who will throw their own child at you simply to steal your wallet.

 

[Jhhnn]

CycloWizard- I used the term "gypsy" in relation to companies' willingness to change locales, and no other. I could have said transient or highly mobile or some others as descriptive. I intended no other meaning.

That is how Tennessee became home to Nissan's HQ and a new VW plant. The thought process is the jobs produced will create tax revenue when people with these new jobs spend money. Likely it will take the state 20-30 years to break even.

What happens when Nissan or VW move to greener pastures in 10 years?

 

[nonlnear]

Yes. And that is how free market works. Its beautiful.

Free market, you keep on using that term. I do not think it means what you think it means.