Canon, Nikon, Fuju Rumors....Well, more than rumors, I'd say.

[soydios]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Canon really got caught with their pants down if they're replacing the 40D already.

I think that the 40D is a fine camera at its price point. But ISO12800 from a 15MP APS-C sensor is, uh, doubtful. A 1DmkIV wouldn't surprise me, since Canon got blindsided by the D3 and now needs a sports camera that can properly track a moving target and can hit five-digit ISOs. But maybe next spring.

Canon would have to be unbelievably stupid to not release a successor to the 5D within the month. Heck, everyone's been expecting one for the past year. Same thing with Nikon and a D90, though nobody can complain about the D3, D300, or D700.

 

[Deadtrees]

Originally posted by: soydios

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Canon really got caught with their pants down if they're replacing the 40D already.

I think that the 40D is a fine camera at its price point. But ISO12800 from a 15MP APS-C sensor is, uh, doubtful. A 1DmkIV wouldn't surprise me, since Canon got blindsided by the D3 and now needs a sports camera that can properly track a moving target and can hit five-digit ISOs. But maybe next spring.

Canon would have to be unbelievably stupid to not release a successor to the 5D within the month. Heck, everyone's been expecting one for the past year. Same thing with Nikon and a D90, though nobody can complain about the D3, D300, or D700.

Yeah,,,ISO 12800 sounds too high for a 15mp cropped sensor camera.

Tracking moving target....Canon is still better but marginally. Nikon was always behind Canon's more than 10 years old AI-Servo technology(only on 1d lines, two and three digit cameras' AI-Servo is far worse than 1d lines) but this time, they really caught up. Even worse, Canon got a bad reputation because of the early failure on 1d mk3n.

 

[soydios]

So, Nikon announcements are looking like a D90, D3H or D3s, an 18-xxx VR kit lens, and some other unknown lenses.

Canon had better announce a 5DmkII. A 1DmkIIIn to fix the AF problems would be nice, or a 1DmkIV to match or beat the rest of the D3's features and specs.

 

[Jawo]

I would love to see a 5DmkII for $2500...plus there's been so much hype about it over the past year. It will be interesting to see if Canon decides to keep their market position, or if Nikon will slowly creep in....then start seeing Nikon ads at sporting events?

 

[jpeyton]

Nikon will probably announce:

D90
18-105mm VR
AF-S 50mm f/1.4 & AF-S 85mm f/1.4
D3s (D3 + buffer + dust buster)

The D3x seems like a Photokina announcement; about a month away, and it probably won't hit the market until next year.

 

[ElFenix]

if there is a C50D coming out shortly to more strongly compete against the ND300's feature set, i wonder if canon will keep the 40D on the market to limit the price of the ND90?

 

[jpeyton]

Apparently pulled from Canon's Chinese website:

50D
Sensor: 1.6x crop CMOS
Proc: DIGIV IV
MP: 15.1MP
LCD: 3" VGA LCD
VF: 95% viewfinder .97 magnification
AF: 9 point af
ISO: 100-3200 (Expansion to 6400 & 12800)
FPS: 6.3/3fps
Buffer: 16 RAW - 60 JPG - 10 RAW+JPG
Feature: Dust Reduction
Feature: Auto Brightness Processing
Feature: Microadjustment
Feature: Face Recognition AF
Feature: Auto CA correction
Feature: HDMI Output

So, finally, a worthy competitor to the D300.

Things the 50D has that the D300 already had: HDMI, auto CA correction, microadjustment, auto brightness processing (active D-lighting), 3" VGA LCD.

Things the 50D has that the D300 doesn't have: +3MP, ISO 12800 (D300 goes to 6400), face recognition.

Things that are roughly the same from the 40D: 95% viewfinder, 9 point autofocus, FPS.

Things the D300 has that the 50D doesn't have: 51 point autofocus, 100% viewfinder, AF tracking based on color ("3D-tracking").

 

[ivan2]

wow so the 12800 ISO is real, that's a surprise. Things I will look into most will be how well the face recognition work when there's only 9 focus points. Auto CA is a god send, and I remember reading there is AF adjusting as well.

 

[GoingUp]

I still love my 40D, but want to pick up a full frame camera....

I'd also love the 24-70mm L, but wish they would put one out with IS

 

[soydios]

It's a shame that Auto Chromatic Aberration Correction only is applied to JPEGs, since I shoot almost exclusively in RAW and post-process in Adobe Lightroom, not the camera manufacturer's software.

ISO12800 on a 15-megapixel 1.6x-crop sensor? Wow. I have my doubts, but I'll reserve judgment until I see some sample shots.
Face Recognition AF might be only in Live View, because 60-ish pixels on the metering sensor probably isn't sufficient for that. Nikon, with a 1005-pixel metering sensor, didn't officially label their Scene Recognition System and 3D Color AF Tracking with "Face Detection" even though that might be included in some form.

The D300 is just a different class of camera than the 40D, obviously.

So, when are these announcements expected? This coming week, I hope?

 

[Deadtrees]

Originally posted by: ivan2
wow so the 12800 ISO is real, that's a surprise. Things I will look into most will be how well the face recognition work when there's only 9 focus points. Auto CA is a god send, and I remember reading there is AF adjusting as well.

ISO

Yeah, 12800 is a suprise considering how Canon has been conservative about that. The actual(hardware) ISO still starts from 100 but ends in 3200 unlike before. It's possible that Canon finally stopped 'underclocking' gain control value of the sensor. If not, I guess it's the new digic 4 doing the trick. Even so, ISO 100-3200(6400,12800) on a 15mp/1.6 crop sensor is really high. If it's Canon that I know of, I don't think they would just throw in megapixels while sacrificing high ISO image quality (Read: Sony A350).

digic 4

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's the first time that a new digic was used on a mid-range camera. This really is something new, isn't it? What would be the motivation of this? To make 6.3 fps possible on 15mp? Does anyone know what's the limitation of digic3 regarding this matter?

face recognition
Exactly, I wonder how it'd work right when there're only 9 AF points.

EDIT: I really wished OLED rumor was true. It turns out it's not and I'm a bit disappointed. I know, VGA LCD is as good as it gets now but if it was OLED, it would've been just soooooooooo nice.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Apparently pulled from Canon's Chinese website:

<snip>

So, finally, a worthy competitor to the D300.

Things the 50D has that the D300 already had: HDMI, auto CA correction, microadjustment, auto brightness processing (active D-lighting), 3" VGA LCD.

Things the 50D has that the D300 doesn't have: +3MP, ISO 12800 (D300 goes to 6400), face recognition.

Things that are roughly the same from the 40D: 95% viewfinder, 9 point autofocus, FPS.

Things the D300 has that the 50D doesn't have: 51 point autofocus, 100% viewfinder, AF tracking based on color ("3D-tracking").

the 40D (and presumably the 50D) also has HTP which gives an additional stop of highlight room with no apparent image quality degradation.

why DPreview tests certain cameras with sensors that have ISO 200 native at ISO 200, but they don't turn on HTP to compare the DR, i don't know.

 

[Deadtrees]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Apparently pulled from Canon's Chinese website:

<snip>

So, finally, a worthy competitor to the D300.

Things the 50D has that the D300 already had: HDMI, auto CA correction, microadjustment, auto brightness processing (active D-lighting), 3" VGA LCD.

Things the 50D has that the D300 doesn't have: +3MP, ISO 12800 (D300 goes to 6400), face recognition.

Things that are roughly the same from the 40D: 95% viewfinder, 9 point autofocus, FPS.

Things the D300 has that the 50D doesn't have: 51 point autofocus, 100% viewfinder, AF tracking based on color ("3D-tracking").

the 40D (and presumably the 50D) also has HTP which gives an additional stop of highlight room with no apparent image quality degradation.

why DPreview tests certain cameras with sensors that have ISO 200 native at ISO 200, but they don't turn on HTP to compare the DR, i don't know.

I second that. I think it's because DPreview doesn't want to put up with all those options and the differences it makes. Think about how Pentax *istDS got a terrible review when it came down to DR/Gradiation/Noise due it it using 'Bright Mode' as the standard. If they reviewed it using 'Neutral Mode', the review had been quite different.
Nowadays, as most of cameras provide more imaging control options, this issue has become more complicated.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

I second that. I think it's because DPreview doesn't want to put up with all those options and the differences it makes. Think about how Pentax *istDS got a terrible review when it came down to DR/Gradiation/Noise due it it using 'Bright Mode' as the standard. If they reviewed it using 'Neutral Mode', the review had been quite different.
Nowadays, as most of cameras provide more imaging control options, this issue has become more complicated.

they did it with the k10d as well. default jpeg processing mode on the k10d is not the same as on the k100d, so the test resulted in tons of rumors, but not much substance, about the k10d's horrible jpegs. all you had to do was set a different profile and you'd get different, 'better' results.


another weird little hitch is that they investigated all the different filter options for the olympus E-510, and have done all subsequent tests using the one that gave the best IQ.


there are a ton of little niggles with any dpreview test that i would change were i running things. the camera's noise levels are tested using whatever the default jpeg processing setting is. wtf is that?

 

[Deadtrees]

50D sample pictures.

http://www.canon.icp.dog-cr.jp...mages/sample_50d-1.jpg
http://www.canon.icp.dog-cr.jp...mages/sample_50d-4.jpg
http://www.canon.icp.dog-cr.jp...mages/sample_50d-3.jpg
http://www.canon.icp.dog-cr.jp...mages/sample_50d-2.jpg


Not that I care about sample pictures released by Camera manufacture...

 

[jpeyton]

You would think that if they wanted to generate buzz, an ISO 3200 or ISO 6400 shot would have been included.

 

[magomago]

images are password protected....

 

[jpeyton]

You guys ready for the D300-lite?

Video recording
12,3 Mpx.
ISO 200-3.200 plus Lo1 (100) and Hi 1 (6.400)
3" 900.000 dots LCD
11 AF points
Live-View, AF contrast, Face detection
Matrix sensor for metering 420 pixels RGB
Powerful speaker (for video in review mode)

AF-S DX 18-105 mm f/3,5-5,6G ED VR
15 elements/11 groups
1 aspherical
1 ED
1 Hybrid Asph.
Minimum focus: 0,45 m
Diaph. blades: 7

http://images.quickblogcast.co...Nikon_D90(6)_final.jpg
http://images.quickblogcast.co...ikon_D90_(5)_final.jpg
http://images.quickblogcast.co...ikon_D90_(4)_final.jpg
http://images.quickblogcast.co...ikon_D90_(3)_final.jpg
http://images.quickblogcast.co...ikon_D90_(2)_final.jpg
http://images.quickblogcast.co...ikon_D90_(1)_final.jpg

 

[ElFenix]

canon is claiming that the C50D has a 1 to 1.5 stop high ISO noise advantage over the C40D despite the 50% increase in pixels, due to various sensor improvements. that's FF (i hate that term) noise territory.

edit: or maybe that's 1 to 1.5 stops when resized?

other highlights not covered elsewhere

new fluorite anti-dust coating on the sensor filter
corner shading control (part of digic iv)
new high iso NR settings (part of digic iv)
1/2 and 1/4 resolution sRAW
triple coating on the LCD to minimize smudging and scratching



i have to wonder if, with the increase in pixels, the refresh rate on the screen remains as high as it did on the C40D (that is, 2x faster refresh rate than the ND300). that made it very suitable for live view, despite the 'low' resolution.



canon's 18-200 is not USM. that's pretty inexcusable. yes, the micro-motor is a lot better than it used to be, but it's pretty ridiculous for $700. i bet it doesn't even come with a hood.

 

[soydios]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
new fluorite anti-dust coating on the sensor filter

There comes a point that camera makers need to realize that dust WILL get on the sensor, so they need to make it easier to clean, or seal off the entire mirror box with a pane of glass in front of the mirror.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: soydios

Originally posted by: ElFenix
new fluorite anti-dust coating on the sensor filter

There comes a point that camera makers need to realize that dust WILL get on the sensor, so they need to make it easier to clean, or seal off the entire mirror box with a pane of glass in front of the mirror.

The 50D incorporates Canon's Integrated Cleaning System in front of the sensor, but with a new anti-stick fluorine coating on the frontmost filter surface that's meant to better prevent slightly moist debris from clinging on, or for it to be more readily shaken off during a cleaning cycle.

you never actually touch the sensor. there is always a filter in front of it. the dust is on that filter, not the sensor itself.




edit: thanks to target.com for releasing D90 pictures. wonder when it'll ship?

 

[soydios]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: soydios

Originally posted by: ElFenix
new fluorite anti-dust coating on the sensor filter

There comes a point that camera makers need to realize that dust WILL get on the sensor, so they need to make it easier to clean, or seal off the entire mirror box with a pane of glass in front of the mirror.

you never actually touch the sensor. there is always a filter in front of it. the dust is on that filter, not the sensor itself.

That's the problem: the part that you're going to be actually cleaning now has some advanced fluorite coating on it, which might not play nice with wet cleanings or adhesives like Dust-Aid.

 

[Deadtrees]

Originally posted by: soydios

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: soydios

Originally posted by: ElFenix
new fluorite anti-dust coating on the sensor filter

There comes a point that camera makers need to realize that dust WILL get on the sensor, so they need to make it easier to clean, or seal off the entire mirror box with a pane of glass in front of the mirror.

you never actually touch the sensor. there is always a filter in front of it. the dust is on that filter, not the sensor itself.

That's the problem: the part that you're going to be actually cleaning now has some advanced fluorite coating on it, which might not play nice with wet cleanings or adhesives like Dust-Aid.

They always had some kind of coating on them. Coating on the filter is nothing new, what's new is that they're using more and different coating methods.
You can still use those safe cleaning products you mentioned.

 

[soydios]

Does anyone know how durable (or not?) a fluorite coating is? Because most coatings on low-pass filters thus far have been metal oxides, which are very durable.

 

[jpeyton]

Nikon D90 specs:

12.3-megapixel CMOS sensor: This Nikon D90 camera body features a DX-format CMOS image sensor that provides the highest level of performance. Its integrated A/D converter enables selection between 12-bit and 14-bit conversions. The sensor design supports the broad light sensitivity range of ISO 200 to ISO 3200, and features refined high-ISO noise reduction.

3.0" LCD monitor: A high-resolution, super-density, 920,000-dot LCD monitor makes critical image review possible. This monitor also allows ultra-wide, 170-degree viewing in all directions.

Live view: You?ll also have a live preview of your subject, giving you point-and-shoot feel with the quality of a DSLR.

11-area AF: The sensor module offers an 11-area AF that ensures consistently fast and precise focus lock under varying shooting conditions. The wide area AF system gives greater compositional freedom when shooting sports and action.

4.5fps continuous shooting: Capture fast action and fleeting expressions. The D90 can shoot up to 4.5 frames per second.

Scene Recognition System: This system recognizes subject and scene conditions prior to capturing the shot. Enjoy improved subject tracking and subject identification for rapid and accurate focus area selection. Highlight analysis optimizes auto exposure by providing more accurate control. Light source inference studies both subject and pattern to achieve optimal white balance.

HD movie mode: Capture your surroundings in cinematic quality. The D90 features the D-Movie mode, which shoots HD movie with sound at 24fps.

D-Lighting enhancement: This technology compensates for underexposed images or insufficient flash by automatically adding light and detail to selected shots where needed, without affecting properly exposed areas.

In-camera editing menu: The in-camera editing features include Nikon D-lighting (that adds light and detail to selected shots only where needed), red-eye correction, image trimming, image overlay, monochrome black and white, sepia and cyanotype along with skylight, warm tone and custom color filter effects.

Lens included: You'll be ready to go in no time with the included 5.8x AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR lens.

Fusing 12.3-megapixel image quality inherited from the award-winning D300 with groundbreaking features, including Live View and a cinematic-quality 24-fps D-Movie Mode, the Nikon D90 exceeds the demands of passionate photographers. Outfit includes the 5.8x, AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED lens with VR image stabilization and legendary NIKKOR optical quality.

ENGINEERED FOR ARTISTRY. UNLEASH YOUR POTENTIAL.

? 12.3-effective megapixel DX-format CMOS imaging sensor
? 5.8x AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR lens included
? D-Movie Mode ? Cinematic 24fps HD with sound
? One-button Live View
? Continuous shooting as fast as 4.5 frames per second
? 12.3-effective megapixel DX-format CMOS imaging sensor
? 5.8x AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR lens included
? Continuous shooting as fast as 4.5 frames-per-second
? D-Movie Mode ? Cinematic 24fps HD with sound
? Low noise ISO sensitivity from 200 to 3200
? 3-inch super-density 920,000-dot color LCD monitor
? Built-in image sensor cleaning
? 11-point AF system with Face Priority
? One-button Live View
? Nikon 3D Color Matrix Metering II with Scene Recognition System
? Comprehensive exposure control
? Auto Active D-lighting
? Shutter precision and durability
? In-Camera Image Editing
? GPS geo-tagging