Can Islam reform?

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: linkgoron

AND OBVIOUSLY the way to keep people from being deluded, is by a WAVE OF VIOLANCE! YES, smart move.
And it's against Islam to draw the prophet? Since when is Islam the ruling law of the world?

same topic:violence! we have our right to get respect from you or else do not blame us because you can't live without insulting anyone!
lets respect each other's laws. Islam is not ruling the world but we don't want to get insulted every time someone wants to be a STAR!

 

[linkgoron]

Originally posted by: Alaa

Originally posted by: linkgoron
Meh, I'm a Jew, and you can make cartoons about Mosses, or anyone you want for all I care. You won't see me burn flags and buildings because of some cartoons. Seriously, you won't see Christians burn flags and building if you make a cartoon of Jesus or something.
If you really think that kind of response to a cartoon is justified... even if it's not "nice"?

If you accept it then its your decision but my religion does not accept so are you going to respect my religion?

If I were living in any Muslim country, or in a Muslim area, you wouldn't see me running around with cartoons of Mohammad. Yet these weren't . These were in Denmark(I believe) and basically, there was nothing wrong with those cartoons.

Sorry, please tell me where the way of Islam is exactly and also please tell me what exactly is the path of Islam is. Is a cartoon an attack? You can make a public announcment or something, saying that those cartoons are a disgrace or anything like that. Make a counter-cartoon I don't know what. A massive wave of violance is unacceptable.

If what we did is massive then it's because many Muslims are ignorant now and do not know about their religion and that was said many times by Imams

How can you say Islam is a religion of peace, and yet make it sound acceptable when there's worldwide violance because of a freaking cartoon?

It is violence yet it is not coming from religion rules.

Yet religion is the cause.

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: LEDominator
Thats like saying since Capitalism could delude Fascism and Communism it shouldn't be in those countries. Oh wait, those countries DO ban those ideas. My point: Not everyone is Muslim. You want people to hear your religion is "the one." Fine. We heard and disagree. Moving on we make a cartoon stating that we feel the prophet muhommed brought war and violence. What happens, war and violence. Are we noticing a trend yet? Instead of going apeshit over a cartoon and burning things down and yelling death to Israel, Death to merica, Death to Denmark, perhaps it would've been wiser to ask yourself WHY we perceive things the way we do, rather than confirm how most in the west already believe.

As i recall the cartoons we made by 1 person not the West!
If you truly know about Islam you wouldn't cheer up for that guy because it is against Islam and we should respect each other. If the world is built upon insults then it will be a race of who is goin to last longer.the world should be built upon respect and civilized criticism that doesn't lead to violence! We don't want to say our religion is "the one" but to explain what our religion says and that's it-anyway this is not the case nowadays because no one is trying to spread Islam and so there is no jihad nowadays-. We are ready to talk but let us have the chance and don't let your ppl who draw cartoons or our ppl who spread violence to delude you.

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: linkgoron
If I were living in any Muslim country, or in a Muslim area, you wouldn't see me running around with cartoons of Mohammad. Yet these weren't . These were in Denmark(I believe) and basically, there was nothing wrong with those cartoons.

according to my religion this is forbidden and we can not accept Insulting especially when it is about our religion.again, will you respect my beliefs to have a civilized conversation?

Yet religion is the cause.

because many ppl do not know the true religion and they think what they do is right.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Alaa
well that's wut it seems to be!! but it's not like that. Once we heard of them we went angry because to make drawings of our prophet in an improper way is not a good message about Islam and could delude a lot of people plus, it is against Islam to draw the prophet.

That's the lamest explanation ever...
How do you think that explains the months of delay? Are all the muslims retarded?
The only logical explanation is that the clerics kicked into high gear.

lets respect each other's laws. Islam is not ruling the world but we don't want to get insulted every time someone wants to be a STAR!

You're laws don't cross the boundries of your country. Muslims in Europe and the USA should conform to the culture of the country that they are in, or they can go to the Middle East or Indonasia/Malasia, and have all the "freedom" they want there.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Alaa
according to my religion this is forbidden and we can not accept Insulting especially when it is about our religion.again, will you respect my beliefs to have a civilized conversation?

Cannot accept ----> beheadings, bombings, arson
People in the West don't respect such beliefs that grant you the right to murder over cartoons.

because many ppl do not know the true religion and they think what they do is right.

Then why are you preaching in these forums? You should go to the Middle East and advocate a gentler, tamer Islam... Oh, wait... they'd probably just hang you for trying that.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Brovane
Can Islam reform?

To me Muslims are intolerant of anybody else that might have a religious view contrary to there own. However they expect non Muslims to be tolerant of their own religious views.

How are Radical Religious Americans any different now?

We invade Countries because we feel like it and kill innocents in the name of what?

 

[imported_dna]

Since I brought up the hypocrisy in regards to the cartoons, allow me to bring up another issue of hypocrasy, and that's about Koran desecration.

There's some very interesting stuff here:

While Islamist fanatics and ignorant Westerners sow panic over the alleged desecration of a Koran at Guantanamo Bay, no one mentions a startling fact: When it comes to destruction of the Koran, there's no question who the world champion is--the government of Saudi Arabia.

The Saudi state religion is the primitive and austere Wahhabi version of Islam, which defines many traditional Islamic practices as idolatrous. Notably, the state bans the importation of Korans published elsewhere. When foreign pilgrims arrive at the Saudi border by the millions for the annual journey to Mecca, what happens to the non-Saudi Korans they are carrying? The border guards confiscate them, to be shredded, pulped, or burned. Beautiful bindings and fine paper are viewed as a particular provocation--all are destroyed. (This on top of the spiritual vandalism the Saudis perpetrate, by inserting anti-Jewish and anti-Christian squibs into the Korans they publish in foreign languages, as Stephen Schwartz documented in our issue of September 27, 2004.)

Yep, there is furor in the Muslim world over this. :roll:

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
How are Radical Religious Americans any different now?

We invade Countries because we feel like it and kill innocents in the name of what?

Huh? Just because Bush relies on the religious vote, and plays the religious type (god knows how religious he really is), doesn't mean that Iraq was invaded in the name of Christianity.

Even though I'll agree that Iraq affair has been misguided, you have no argument there: attempting to link religion with the Iraq Invasion.

Furthermore, innocents were being killed in Iraq before Saddam was taken down, and are being killed now by secterian violence. Don't try to pin it on the US army -- civilian deaths by its activity are insignificant compared to what Sadam did, or what the secterian violence is exacting.

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: dna

That's the lamest explanation ever...
How do you think that explains the months of delay? Are all the muslims retarded?
The only logical explanation is that the clerics kicked into high gear.

They didn't reach us that quick, do you expect me to read the danish newspapers?!!

You're laws don't cross the boundries of your country. Muslims in Europe and the USA should conform to the culture of the country that they are in, or they can go to the Middle East or Indonasia/Malasia, and have all the "freedom" they want there.

they cross because the world is different now and whatever you do, can reach anyone in the world. I am not talking about our sharia laws but only those Anti-Islam laws are worldwide in order to be able to defend our religion and that is our right.
I did not say that Muslims should not obey to your rules as this is not related to the Muslims living outside Islamic lands. It's related to Islam itself.

Cannot accept ----> beheadings, bombings, arson
People in the West don't respect such beliefs that grant you the right to murder over cartoons.

well, insults always result in fights and that's what happened! got it? It's still not an Islamic rule to bomb other for insulting Islam this is just what you see and shouldn't be taken as a rule.

Then why are you preaching in these forums? You should go to the Middle East and advocate a gentler, tamer Islam... Oh, wait... they'd probably just hang you for trying that.

there are better ppl doin the job here. I always give advice when I can.


To add: I never heard of this Saudi Arabia problem!! most of my family traveled to Saudi!! moreover we use their Quran!! which is simply the same as ours! Interesting?

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Alaa
They didn't reach us that quick, do you expect me to read the danish newspapers?!!

Why do you presist with that lame excuse?
They were printed in Egypt in October 2005, as noted in Sandmonkey's entry.

To add: I never heard of this Saudi Arabia problem!! most of my family traveled to Saudi!! moreover we use their Quran!! which is simply the same as ours! Interesting?

Dunno, I guess they wouldn't have a reason to destroy their own Koran, which you just said you use. How about you try with a different Koran?
It's hard to find more info when searching in English, but could probably be easier in Arabic.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Alaa
they cross because the world is different now and whatever you do, can reach anyone in the world. I am not talking about our sharia laws but only those Anti-Islam laws are worldwide in order to be able to defend our religion and that is our right.

Give examples and elaborate...

I did not say that Muslims should not obey to your rules as this is not related to the Muslims living outside Islamic lands. It's related to Islam itself.

You just contradicted yourself. :thumbsup:

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: dna
Why do you presist with that lame excuse?
They were printed in Egypt in October 2005, as noted in Sandmonkey's entry.

I assure you that these news did not spread quickly maybe because not many read that newspaper that showed them first!!?

Dunno, I guess they wouldn't have a reason to destroy their own Koran, which you just said you use. How about you try with a different Koran?
It's hard to find more info when searching in English, but could probably be easier in Arabic.

As far as I know there is only one version that's true and being agreed by all Islamic countries so how can I get another version?

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Alaa
I assure you that these news did not spread quickly maybe because not many read that newspaper that showed them first!!?

You're kidding me, right? An issue of such gravity took four months to propagate?
This stuff should've been all over the Middle East in October -- like wildfire.

As far as I know there is only one version that's true and being agreed by all Islamic countries so how can I get another version?

Listen, I'm inclined to believe that Saudis are whacked; you also said that.
Other than that, you can do some googling yourself, or wait until I learn Arabic.

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: dna

Give examples and elaborate...

You just contradicted yourself. :thumbsup:

Simply we will defend our religion if anyone is insulting or offending it wherever he lives!
I do not know where is the contradiction as I stated that Muslims outside are not related to the subject as we are talking about Islam and Muslims overall not specific here.

 

[imported_dna]

First you said it crosses borders, and then you talked about muslim-lands.

Other than that, you still haven't explained what you mean by "defend", although I'm pretty sure that's a euphemism.

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: dna

1-You're kidding me, right? An issue of such gravity took four months to propagate?
This stuff should've been all over the Middle East in October -- like wildfire.

2-Listen, I'm inclined to believe that Saudis are whacked; you also said that.
Other than that, you can do some googling yourself, orn wait until I learn Arabic.

1-I hold no responsibility for this!! ask the ppl who knew before me.
2-I don't get what you mean by whacked in here please simplify.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
How are Radical Religious Americans any different now?

We invade Countries because we feel like it and kill innocents in the name of what?

Huh? Just because Bush relies on the religious vote, and plays the religious type (god knows how religious he really is), doesn't mean that Iraq was invaded in the name of Christianity.

Even though I'll agree that Iraq affair has been misguided, you have no argument there: attempting to link religion with the Iraq Invasion.

Furthermore, innocents were being killed in Iraq before Saddam was taken down, and are being killed now by secterian violence. Don't try to pin it on the US army -- civilian deaths by its activity are insignificant compared to what Sadam did, or what the secterian violence is exacting.

Bahahahaha you're hysterical. Lot's of new faces in P&N

Insignificant eh?

I suppose the thousands of U.S. and other "Allie" soldiers lives for a phoney war are insignificant too or the trillions of U.S. Taxpayer dollars.

 

[lyssword]

Islam: we have a right to spread the word of islam to every1. Those who don't allow us to spread the word should be murdered/whatever. Of course the Western ideology of freedom benefits them in this way, as they are allowed to freely "spread the word" in europe/u.s/wherever. On the other hand try to spread the western ideology/any belief in muslim countries, and you will be greatly hated and not given a chance for debate/whatever, they will quickly shut you up (china comes to mind in here where there is a monopoly on ideas, just like in Islam). Double standard (hypocritical), dont you think?

 

[Rainsford]

Since none of you anti-Islam folks seem to have read my post, I'll try a shorter one that hopefully won't overload your brains.

I see a lot of complaining, most of it justified, about individual Muslims or groups of Muslims...I see no effort being made to link these individuals to a persistant problem with the entire religion or the members of the religion NOT doing bad things. Yet, with a few exceptions, every single one of you makes the jump from "some Muslims do bad things" to "all Muslims are bad and Islam has some fundamental issues". Perhaps I'm missing the key piece of the puzzle, so if you can explain it to me, go for it and I'll jump on the religious hatred bandwagon right behind you.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I suppose the thousands of U.S. and other "Allie" soldiers lives for a phoney war are insignificant too or the trillions of U.S. Taxpayer dollars.

If it was too difficult for you to understand, then I'll repeat it again: I was talking about civilian deaths in Iraq due to US Army activity.

By the way, good job on ignoring the rest of the text, and do us a favor and cut down on your "signature" -- it occupies more space than your reply.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Alaa
2-I don't get what you mean by whacked in here please simplify.

Saudis are crazy.

 

[lyssword]

In what ways Islamic Sharia law is better than communism? Is that a totally unfair comparison?

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: dna
First you said it crosses borders, and then you talked about muslim-lands.

Other than that, you still haven't explained what you mean by "defend", although I'm pretty sure that's a euphemism.

I don't know to explain this better!! laws crosses the borders thats not related to Muslims who cross the borders! If someone Insulted the prophet and insisted on this even after we talked to him to say sorry then he should be executed but that is not definite. I will ask about this if you want to know.

 

[imported_dna]

Yep, that's exactly what I thought -- Islamic laws take precendence in Europe and the USA, and override local laws.
Isult the prophet and we're back to head-chopping, ignoring local laws regarding murder.....

Euphemisms like "defend" shouldn't be used to describe such actions.