Can Islam reform?

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: lyssword
Islam: we have a right to spread the word of islam to every1. Those who don't allow us to spread the word should be murdered/whatever. Of course the Western ideology of freedom benefits them in this way, as they are allowed to freely "spread the word" in europe/u.s/wherever. On the other hand try to spread the western ideology/any belief in muslim countries, and you will be greatly hated and not given a chance for debate/whatever, they will quickly shut you up (china comes to mind in here where there is a monopoly on ideas, just like in Islam). Double standard (hypocritical), dont you think?

maybe because we have our standards and our way of life!? again you should not be hated for trying to teach us something new. we will agree on everything that doesn't contradict with our Quran and Sunna.

 

[imported_dna]

Here's an interesting question for you -- where do women stand in all of this?
The taliban didn't allow women to do anything, and if I'm not mistaken they don't have much rights in Saudi Arabia either.
If we were to see a "proper" Islamic nation, then what is the position that women will have? Will it be only making babies and taking care of the babies?

 

[lyssword]

How would muslims feel if we said, "People who insult USA/Jews/west in general in their cartoons or otherwise should be executed"? No doubt you would get very angry.. And to be fair, lets say limit executions only to the people inside the United States? You see how ridiculous this sounds?

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Alaa
2-I don't get what you mean by whacked in here please simplify.

Saudis are crazy.

ppl or government?😀

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: dna
Here's an interesting question for you -- where do women stand in all of this?
The taliban didn't allow women to do anything, and if I'm not mistaken they don't have much rights in Saudi Arabia either.
If we were to see a "proper" Islamic nation, then what is the position that women will have? Will it be only making babies and taking care of the babies?

Turkey -?
Indonesia - I believe their president was once a female? (This is the largest Muslim country and it is a democracy)

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: dna
Yep, that's exactly what I thought -- Islamic laws take precendence in Europe and the USA, and override local laws.
Isult the prophet and we're back to head-chopping, ignoring local laws regarding murder.....

Euphemisms like "defend" shouldn't be used to describe such actions.

Sorry, but we don't want to get insulted everyday!

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: lyssword
In what ways Islamic Sharia law is better than communism? Is that a totally unfair comparison?

well, do you want to read more about Islam to compare them?

 

[Aimster]

Islamic Law
..

Is not mentioned in the Quran.

It was all made up after the Quran was written by people who were not "prophets"

 

[lyssword]

Originally posted by: Alaa

Originally posted by: dna
Yep, that's exactly what I thought -- Islamic laws take precendence in Europe and the USA, and override local laws.
Isult the prophet and we're back to head-chopping, ignoring local laws regarding murder.....

Euphemisms like "defend" shouldn't be used to describe such actions.

Sorry, but we don't want to get insulted everyday!

By your logic, Americans don't want to get insulted either. Murder all who hate america! I mean we don't want to get insulted. You speak our language, use our technology and insult us using it? Kill them all!
Sounds almost as stupid.. as what you are saying..

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Turkey -?
Indonesia - I believe their president was once a female? (This is the largest Muslim country and it is a democracy)

Do note that I wrote "proper islamic nation", which according to Alaa does not exist.

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: lyssword
How would muslims feel if we said, "People who insult USA/Jews/west in general in their cartoons or otherwise should be executed"? No doubt you would get very angry.. And to be fair, lets say limit executions only to the people inside the United States? You see how ridiculous this sounds?

I didn't say do not Insult Egypt!! right? I said Islam and that's totally different we can't say that you will get executed for Insulting our countries.We do not Insult neither Christianity nor jews religion -don't remember how to say it in English- .

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Aimster
Turkey -?
Indonesia - I believe their president was once a female? (This is the largest Muslim country and it is a democracy)

Do note that I wrote "proper islamic nation", which according to Alaa does not exist.

my mistake

Alaa,
Define proper Islamic nation please.

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: dna
Here's an interesting question for you -- where do women stand in all of this?
The taliban didn't allow women to do anything, and if I'm not mistaken they don't have much rights in Saudi Arabia either.
If we were to see a "proper" Islamic nation, then what is the position that women will have? Will it be only making babies and taking care of the babies?

I linked before to This document read the Questions about women.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Alaa
ppl or government?😀

Both!

Like I said: $75 billion will get you a long way.

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Aimster
Turkey -?
Indonesia - I believe their president was once a female? (This is the largest Muslim country and it is a democracy)

Do note that I wrote "proper islamic nation", which according to Alaa does not exist.

True! This happened but most of Imams don't agree that women can be presidents. They can hold any place in the Government but not that one.
It would take months to define how a Proper Islamic country should be. Nowadays there is NONE.

 

[Aimster]

Islam is a religion for men. Women are the lesser of the two and are subject to the rules of men.

Islam is good for us men. Bad for the women.

This is a fact. If you wish to debate this then I will love to tell you how Islam is a slave religion for females.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Islam is a religion for men. Women are the lesser of the two and are subject to the rules of men.

Islam is good for us men. Bad for the women.

This is a fact. If you wish to debate this then I will love to tell you how Islam is a slave religion for females.

Okay, I dispute your position that Islam is a slave religion for females. Show me your facts.

 

[lyssword]

Originally posted by: Alaa

Originally posted by: lyssword
How would muslims feel if we said, "People who insult USA/Jews/west in general in their cartoons or otherwise should be executed"? No doubt you would get very angry.. And to be fair, lets say limit executions only to the people inside the United States? You see how ridiculous this sounds?

I didn't say do not Insult Egypt!! right? I said Islam and that's totally different we can't say that you will get executed for Insulting our countries.We do not Insult neither Christianity nor jews religion -don't remember how to say it in English- .

Ok my bad. I didn't put it into right context. Lets say i am a "A guy from Iceland, who believes in {Noodle Soup} god.Lets imagine 96% of Icelandians also share my belief. Now, (using same logic as Muslims use) not only I have the right to give harsh penalties/murder to those who insult {Noodle Soup} entity in Iceland, but also I believe that if {Noodle Soup} god is insulted in ANY country, we have the right to murder them too, because {Noodle Soup} entity has specifically told us to destroy those who insult {Noodle Soup}.
Is that better?
And of course, {Noodle Soup} believers are like the most peaceful people out there, very peaceful and respectful in all other cases except if you don't let us spread the wonderful message of {Noodle Soup} god.

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Islam is a religion for men. Women are the lesser of the two and are subject to the rules of men.

Islam is good for us men. Bad for the women.

This is a fact. If you wish to debate this then I will love to tell you how Islam is a slave religion for females.

feel lovely to say what you want but read the document first. Women are not slaves at all and that far from truth.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Aimster
Islam is a religion for men. Women are the lesser of the two and are subject to the rules of men.

Islam is good for us men. Bad for the women.

This is a fact. If you wish to debate this then I will love to tell you how Islam is a slave religion for females.

Okay, I dispute your position that Islam is a slave religion for females. Show me your facts.

Here is one ....

Women cannot divorce their husbands without the husband's approval.

If the husband refuses to grant approval.. the woman must go before an Islamic court.

Men however can divorce their wives without approval or Islamic court.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Aimster
Islam is a religion for men. Women are the lesser of the two and are subject to the rules of men.

Islam is good for us men. Bad for the women.

This is a fact. If you wish to debate this then I will love to tell you how Islam is a slave religion for females.

Okay, I dispute your position that Islam is a slave religion for females. Show me your facts.

Here is one ....

Women cannot divorce their husbands without the husband's approval.

If the husband refuses to grant approval.. the woman must go before an Islamic court.

Men however can divorce their wives without approval or Islamic court.

Show me the lines in the Koran that state that?

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Alaa
I linked before to This document read the Questions about women.

SIgh.....

The document is all nice and good (from the several pages I went over, from pg. 78), but implementation is something different, and I would guess that even this document is an interperation of the Koran and associated writings, while other interpertations argue for the stricter rules regarding women witnessed in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, and (I believe) Kuwait.

You see, this is the problem with incorporating religion into the state -- there will always be someone to claim authority. Your salvation isn't in a true "proper" muslim nation, but quite the oppisite, a nation where Islam play almost no role in the affairs of the state.

Separation of church and state. Period.

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: lyssword

Ok my bad. I didn't put it into right context. Lets say i am a "A guy from Iceland, who believes in {Noodle Soup} god.Lets imagine 96% of Icelandians also share my belief. Now, (using same logic as Muslims use) not only I have the right to give harsh penalties/murder to those who insult {Noodle Soup} entity in Iceland, but also I believe that if {Noodle Soup} god is insulted in ANY country, we have the right to murder them too, because {Noodle Soup} entity has specifically told us to destroy those who insult {Noodle Soup}.
Is that better?
And of course, {Noodle Soup} believers are like the most peaceful people out there, very peaceful and respectful in all other cases except if you don't let us spread the wonderful message of {Noodle Soup} god.

Islam is not {Noodle Soup}! now you went from ppl to religion which proves my point that anyone should feel free to Insult countries but not religions and we wouldn't even Insult the Noodle Soup god😀

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Aimster
Islam is a religion for men. Women are the lesser of the two and are subject to the rules of men.

Islam is good for us men. Bad for the women.

This is a fact. If you wish to debate this then I will love to tell you how Islam is a slave religion for females.

Okay, I dispute your position that Islam is a slave religion for females. Show me your facts.

Here is one ....

Women cannot divorce their husbands without the husband's approval.

If the husband refuses to grant approval.. the woman must go before an Islamic court.

Men however can divorce their wives without approval or Islamic court.

Show me the lines in the Koran that state that?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=women+divorcing+husband+islam

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Aimster
Islam is a religion for men. Women are the lesser of the two and are subject to the rules of men.

Islam is good for us men. Bad for the women.

This is a fact. If you wish to debate this then I will love to tell you how Islam is a slave religion for females.

Okay, I dispute your position that Islam is a slave religion for females. Show me your facts.

Here is one ....

Women cannot divorce their husbands without the husband's approval.

If the husband refuses to grant approval.. the woman must go before an Islamic court.

Men however can divorce their wives without approval or Islamic court.

did you read the document?