Can Islam reform?

[lyssword]

Originally posted by: Brovane

But to see it inreligious terms servs no pupose othe than to guarantee that we will fail to find any solution.

The Islamic nations seem to have a hard time seeing beyond religion. The western nations want to see the Muslims acknowledge some basic human rights. For example you can disagree without resulting to violence, you respect others religions, and you do not mutilate a woman?s genitals.
These basic concepts don't seem to be respected by several Islamic ruled nations.

Were are the voices of the moderate muslims?

They mutilate male genitals too @@ Oh wait, so do Americans. But mutilation makes men "cleaner". I'm sure female mutilation also makes them "cleaner" so that must be the reason why they do it. buuurnnn!

 

[Aimster]

Who straps bombs to their chest?
99.9% people of Arab background

Arabs = 12% of Muslim population

With that said

/thread

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Who straps bombs to their chest?
99.9% people of Arab background

Arabs = 12% of Muslim population

With that said

/thread

And the percent of those Arabs who have strapped bombs to themselves would be like what? .000002%

Americans have killed 16% of Canadians who have died in Afghanistan.

OTTAWA (CP) - The death of a Canadian soldier under the fire of two American warplanes in Afghanistan on the weekend conjures memories of a deadly 2002 incident that killed four other Canadians.

But the similarities are only superficial. Pte. Mark Graham was killed and 30 other Canadians were injured when the A-10 Warthog aircraft accidentally strafed a Canadian unit in the middle of a major combat operation.

The four Canadians killed in 2002 died after an American pilot dropped a bomb from 10,000 feet as the Canadians conducted a night firing exercise in a recognized practice zone near Kandahar, called the Tarnak Farm.

Text

Those numbers would make it seem like Americans are at war with Canada too.

 

[LEDominator]

I believe this was locked once before, but it isn't a question of "can" - any religion can change - it is "will"

 

[Brovane]

They mutilate male genitals too @@ Oh wait, so do Americans. But mutilation makes men "cleaner". I'm sure female mutilation also makes them "cleaner" so that must be the reason why they do it. buuurnnn!

I don't consider cutting off part of a woman?s clit and sewing up her vagina in the same level off male circumcision.

GB

 

[Aimster]

female circumsicion has what to do with Islam?

curious..

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Who straps bombs to their chest?
99.9% people of Arab background

Arabs = 12% of Muslim population

With that said

/thread

Bush's ally! Bush's ally! The Saudis can do no wrong. Running a more repressive regime then Sadom's Irag and openly funding terrorists.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: Aimster
female circumsicion has what to do with Islam?

curious..

Nothing really. The practice just seems to fascinate some people.

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: yllus
As I've stated in a couple of threads here and there, the Koran is such a no-nonsense document that adapting it to the times is a difficult task. There is some room to maneuver on various subjects, and none on others (see talk of adultery in the article). There's also a balance to be discussed - we don't consider adultery to be an act that should be punishable by death, but are we right to enforce that view upon another nation? On the other hand, the basic rights laid out by the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights should be considered absolute, no matter what cultural basis you sprung from.

I don't know how do you want to adapt to the times? I see it as a book containing rules and strategy for life that far away from holding inventions on the other hand Islam recommends hard work and Perfection of it.
I suggest that all of you read This document which contains a lot of Questions about Islam and This one which contains Islam and science.

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: LEDominator
I believe this was locked once before, but it isn't a question of "can" - any religion can change - it is "will"

How can a religion change if it is allegedly God's word handed down? Distill the New Testament and you get "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Distill the Koran and you get "Submit unto God and damn those who do not have the sense to do so as well." The latter approach just does not work in modern times.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
Bush's ally! Bush's ally! The Saudis can do no wrong. Running a more repressive regime then Sadom's Irag and openly funding terrorists.

So then you're for the invasion of Saudi Arabia?

Originally posted by: Alaa

Originally posted by: yllus
As I've stated in a couple of threads here and there, the Koran is such a no-nonsense document that adapting it to the times is a difficult task. There is some room to maneuver on various subjects, and none on others (see talk of adultery in the article). There's also a balance to be discussed - we don't consider adultery to be an act that should be punishable by death, but are we right to enforce that view upon another nation? On the other hand, the basic rights laid out by the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights should be considered absolute, no matter what cultural basis you sprung from.

I don't know how do you want to adapt to the times? I see it as a book containing rules and strategy for life that far away from holding inventions on the other hand Islam recommends hard work and Perfection of it.

I suggest that all of you read This document which contains a lot of Questions about Islam and This one which contains Islam and science.

How? Treatment of homosexuality as tolerable both in and outside of Islam. The forced redistribution of wealth under Sharia. The continued practice of segregation of the sexes. I could go on listing specifics, but I don't have access to the materials that I would source while I'm at work.

By the way, page 95 of that first document regarding Salman Rushie is some of the most ignorant doublespeak I've ever had to read.

 

[Chiller2]

Originally posted by: flavio

I was taught back when I was a Catholic that anybody that wasn't Catholic was going straight to hell. Good thing I gave up that BS.

Yes but Muslims are taught not only that they are going to hell but that it is your duty to Allah to send them there. Kinda of a big differance there.
And also if you were Muslim and "gave up that BS"you would be sentenced to death. Pretty sure that didn't happen to you with the Catholic Church.

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: Chiller2

Originally posted by: flavio

I was taught back when I was a Catholic that anybody that wasn't Catholic was going straight to hell. Good thing I gave up that BS.

Yes but Muslims are taught not only that they are going to hell but that it is your duty to Allah to send them there. Kinda of a big differance there.
And also if you were Muslim and "gave up that BS"you would be sentenced to death. Pretty sure that didn't happen to you with the Catholic Church.

where exactly is the back-up for your statement? we attack whoever attacks us and our religion.

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: yllus
How? Treatment of homosexuality as tolerable both in and outside of Islam. The forced redistribution of wealth under Sharia. The continued practice of segregation of the sexes. I could go on listing specifics, but I don't have access to the materials that I would source while I'm at work.

-homosexuality is totally against Islam and whoever wants it can live anywhere else!
-Zakah is one of the most important things in Islam and only 2.5% of your money (you must at least have 1000$ or maybe a different value)every year to help the poor so what's with that?
-segregation is a must when sex is forbidden because if we do the opposite then forbidding sex is just stupid.

By the way, page 95 of that first document regarding Salman Rushie is some of the most ignorant doublespeak I've ever had to read.

Doesn't seem like this to me!

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Alaa

Originally posted by: Chiller2

Originally posted by: flavio

I was taught back when I was a Catholic that anybody that wasn't Catholic was going straight to hell. Good thing I gave up that BS.

Yes but Muslims are taught not only that they are going to hell but that it is your duty to Allah to send them there. Kinda of a big differance there.
And also if you were Muslim and "gave up that BS"you would be sentenced to death. Pretty sure that didn't happen to you with the Catholic Church.

where exactly is the back-up for your statement? we attack whoever attacks us and our religion.

Ah, but there is the rub. Many Muslims feel that violence against those to say anything bad about Islam or make fun of it (even in non Islamic countries) is justified. Europe knows first hand about this particular problem.

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: K1052
Ah, but there is the rub. Many Muslims feel that violence against those to say anything bad about Islam or make fun of it (even in non Islamic countries) is justified. Europe knows first hand about this particular problem.

I wouldn't call them Many!

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Alaa

Originally posted by: K1052
Ah, but there is the rub. Many Muslims feel that violence against those to say anything bad about Islam or make fun of it (even in non Islamic countries) is justified. Europe knows first hand about this particular problem.

I wouldn't call them Many!

Someone else who is feeling less lazy can dig up the polls of Muslims living in europe over that whole newspaper Mohammed cartoon thing. More than 30% though that violence as a reaction was justified, a similar percentage ended up supporting the London tube bombings. There was also a great deal of backlash against foreign symbols in Muslim contries, like the burning of the Danish embassy in Syria among others.

 

[straightalker]

Originally posted by: Alaa

Originally posted by: K1052
Ah, but there is the rub. Many Muslims feel that violence against those to say anything bad about Islam or make fun of it (even in non Islamic countries) is justified. Europe knows first hand about this particular problem.

I wouldn't call them Many!

Tell us non-Muslims Alaa, what made you choose that Avatar? The snarling hate filled enraged green demon head?

Was it to improve the image of Islam as a peaceful religion?

 

[Chiller2]

Originally posted by: Alaa

Originally posted by: Chiller2

Originally posted by: flavio

I was taught back when I was a Catholic that anybody that wasn't Catholic was going straight to hell. Good thing I gave up that BS.

Yes but Muslims are taught not only that they are going to hell but that it is your duty to Allah to send them there. Kinda of a big differance there.
And also if you were Muslim and "gave up that BS"you would be sentenced to death. Pretty sure that didn't happen to you with the Catholic Church.

where exactly is the back-up for your statement? we attack whoever attacks us and our religion.

Here. And also what gives you the right to attack me if I don't believe in your religion. No other relegion has that right.
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/060428a.aspx

http://jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/010729.php

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: straightalker

Originally posted by: Alaa

Originally posted by: K1052
Ah, but there is the rub. Many Muslims feel that violence against those to say anything bad about Islam or make fun of it (even in non Islamic countries) is justified. Europe knows first hand about this particular problem.

I wouldn't call them Many!

Tell us non-Muslims Alaa, what made you choose that Avatar? The snarling hate filled enraged green demon head?

Was it to improve the image of Islam as a peaceful religion?

this is for the green camp nvidia, not related to politics!!

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: Chiller2
Here. And also what gives you the right to attack me if I don't believe in your religion. No other relegion has that right.
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/060428a.aspx

http://jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/010729.php

My religion gives me the right to attack you IF YOU attack me. got it? I should add that Jihad is a way for Muslims to spread Islam IF others stay in the way of Islam.
I couldn't find anything from INSIDE Islam that tells me to attack non-Muslims for nothing!!

 

[lyssword]

Originally posted by: Alaa

Originally posted by: Chiller2
Here. And also what gives you the right to attack me if I don't believe in your religion. No other relegion has that right.
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/060428a.aspx

http://jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/010729.php

My religion gives me the right to attack you IF YOU attack me. got it? I should add that Jihad is a way for Muslims to spread Islam IF others stay in the way of Islam.
I couldn't find anything from INSIDE Islam that tells me to attack non-Muslims for nothing!!

Well if they are atheists/other religion then they need to be sent to hell, right? I mean they are in the way trying to influence the pure perfect islamic peoples with stuff that isn't islamic (wow can you believe that some people don't believe in Islam? we must send them to hell allah told so)

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: lyssword
Well if they are atheists/other religion then they need to be sent to hell, right? I mean they are in the way trying to influence the pure perfect islamic peoples with stuff that isn't islamic (wow can you believe that some people don't believe in Islam? we must send them to hell allah told so)

Some ppl do not only stop at Not believing in Islam but expand to the point that they attack Islam asend Muslims which results in the problems.

 

[lyssword]

Then it will be a circle of non-stop violence, because believe it or not, some (if not most) "non-muslims" believe it is THEY who are being attacked by muslims. And they will fight back too. Can you see what I'm getting at?

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Alaa

Originally posted by: lyssword
Well if they are atheists/other religion then they need to be sent to hell, right? I mean they are in the way trying to influence the pure perfect islamic peoples with stuff that isn't islamic (wow can you believe that some people don't believe in Islam? we must send them to hell allah told so)

Some ppl do not only stop at Not believing in Islam but expand to the point that they attack Islam asend Muslims which results in the problems.

Another justification, like what I posted above.

If criticising Islam and standing in the way of its expansion makes the western world a target, then so be it. Whatever it takes not fall under the boot heel of Islamic law I am for.