Boehner proposes leaving 52 Million Americans without insurance.

[halik]

Want health insurance? Then pay for it. The people have spoken, shut the fuck up communists, we don't want what you're selling. This. Is. America!!!!

/thread

I fucking told you we were coming after people that don't work or pay taxes. We're here. We are taking the country back. Fuck Obama and anybody that believes his agenda.

What if i want insurance and down wanna pay for it? Then I can choose not to get coverage, yet still go to the hospital in case of emergency. Win win for me !

The only way you should be able to go w/o coverage is if you sign a waiver that allows the hospital to dump yo ass back at the curb. Otherwise it's a free rider problem and you're just too dumb to see it.

 

[Red Dawn]

They should work on ammending it, not repealing it. They might get some where if they try to ammend it. Repealing it isn't going to happen.

 

[halik]

Anyone can afford insurance if they have their priorities in line.
A basic plan can be had for ~$100 while a plan with prescription and other benefits can be had for ~$175.

Let see,minimum wage is $7.25. Working 10 hour days at 6 days per week, that is $22,600 per year while health care expenses would be under $2,400.

Those with "pre existing conditions" only make up 3% of the population or roughly 10 million people.

Try again.

Bullshit. My catastrophic-only coverage for 25 yo non smoker was 95/mo with 2000 deductible. That is you need to fork 2k to get treatment. That plan is designed to prevent you going bankrupt if you need emergency surgery.

Incidentally when i first got it it was around 78/mo in '07 (grad school) and climbed to 95/mo in the two years i had it.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I bet that you are grateful for gridlock eh?

 

[soccerballtux]

2019 population growth

Funny, those numbers weren't included in the estimates for the cost of this program.
So you admit they lied about the fact that it's going to cost double what they said it would?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Anyone can afford insurance if they have their priorities in line.
A basic plan can be had for ~$100 while a plan with prescription and other benefits can be had for ~$175.

Let see,minimum wage is $7.25. Working 10 hour days at 6 days per week, that is $22,600 per year while health care expenses would be under $2,400.

Those with "pre existing conditions" only make up 3% of the population or roughly 10 million people.

Try again.

Link for the stats on that pre-existing condition number?

So, ~10% of their salary goes to health care, did you figure in taxes in that 22.6k? Or cost of housing and food, what if they have a child?

Health care costs are skyrocketing. I had open heart surgery in 1995 and the bill was ~250k. Two Hundred and Fifty Thousand Dollars. I did not have insurance, and I wasn't making minimum wage, but above it, however, my income was roughly 21k a year, so that surgery was more than 10 years of income, if I didn't need to eat, have shelter, or any other expenses. Luckily my doctor fought with Medicaid, who denied me, because they didn't deem it as life threatening, (a hole about 1" between my ventricles wasn't life threatening according to their crack medical experts, usually the same level of intellect turning down people at insurance companies) my doctor told them she would hold them legally responsible for my death as it was eminent if I did not have the surgery, magically, it was approved after that.

The lack of concern for fellow humans by some of the internet hardasses is sickening, and spidey's bullshit is just a frog fart in a swamp.

 

[MrX8503]

Exactly , that is why this supposed healthcare bill is a farce by forcing those who don't have insurance to buy it,

what will happen is they will seek out those $100-$175 plans that Patranus talks about, yes I have seen them on alot of wasted fax paper advertisements, and when they try to use them they will find out how worthless they are because their is no way an insurance company can make money on plans with such low fee's considering the continual decline in Americans health along with ever increasing health care costs .

The only ones that will benefit will be the insurance companies while they stamp denied on a claim, if the unlucky person can even get a doctor to accept it.


And Patranus most minimum wage jobs limit your hours because they don't want to pay over time, so $7.25x40x52=$15,080 annually.

I'm pretty sure the healthcare insurance companies are doing fine. There will be cheaper plans, but there will also be more people with plans AKA everyone. This should slow down out of control rising costs.

 

[halik]

Link for the stats on that pre-existing condition number?

So, ~10% of their salary goes to health care, did you figure in taxes in that 22.6k? Or cost of housing and food, what if they have a child?

Health care costs are skyrocketing. I had open heart surgery in 1995 and the bill was ~250k. Two Hundred and Fifty Thousand Dollars. I did not have insurance, and I wasn't making minimum wage, but above it, however, my income was roughly 21k a year, so that surgery was more than 10 years of income, if I didn't need to eat, have shelter, or any other expenses. Luckily my doctor fought with Medicaid, who denied me, because they didn't deem it as life threatening, (a hole about 1" between my ventricles wasn't life threatening according to their crack medical experts, usually the same level of intellect turning down people at insurance companies) my doctor told them she would hold them legally responsible for my death as it was eminent if I did not have the surgery, magically, it was approved after that.

The lack of concern for fellow humans by some of the internet hardasses is sickening, and spidey's bullshit is just a frog fart in a swamp.

If you have a kid on minimum wage, you're a moron/fucked no matter what. Peanut butter abortion time.

 

[MrX8503]

If you have a kid on minimum wage, you're a moron/fucked no matter what. Peanut butter abortion time.

Yeah because there isn't such a thing as poor people with kids. Great solution.

People seem to forget that there are people in this country living under poverty, you don't have to travel to a 3rd world country to see them.

 

[rudder]

Wow. It's like the same talking points from 2 years ago are being rehashed. It's been said a thousand times but if someone without insurance gets really sick they aren't going to pay. Leaving the hospital to raise the rates on you and YOUR insurance. I cant believe you are honestly still towing this little crumb of misinformation.

And government health insurance solves this how? All obamacare does is add another layer of fud creating more of an expense. The ones paying for people without insurance to get care now will be the same ones paying when people have obamacare insurance. Only with insurance they will use a whole hell of a lot more of other people's money.

Just look at the states like Tennessee who have tried to provide healthcare to people who cannot afford it.

Anyway that 52 million figure spouted by the OP came from an analysis in 2009 by Douglas Elmendorf, who is director of the CBO. He was guestimating figures for uninsured people in 2019.

CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf said: "But it is very hard to look out over a very long term and say very accurate things about growth rates. So most health experts that we talk with focus particularly on what is happening over the next 10 or 20 years, still a pretty long time period for projections..." [Hearing on CBO Long-Term Budget Outlook, 7/16/09

In July of that same year he gave a very damaging assessment of obamacare saying there were no price controls. Along with saying obamacare will raise costs of healthcare across the board. Boehners plan focuses on cutting costs of health care without causing taxes to increase. Whereas obamacare focuses on getting everyone insurance along with taxpayers getting a hefty bill for it all.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

And government health insurance solves this how? All obamacare does is add another layer of fud creating more of an expense. The ones paying for people without insurance to get care now will be the same ones paying when people have obamacare insurance. Only with insurance they will use a whole hell of a lot more of other people's money.

Just look at the states like Tennessee who have tried to provide healthcare to people who cannot afford it.

Anyway that 52 million figure spouted by the OP came from an analysis in 2009 by Douglas Elmendorf, who is director of the CBO. He was guestimating figures for uninsured people in 2019.

CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf said: "But it is very hard to look out over a very long term and say very accurate things about growth rates. So most health experts that we talk with focus particularly on what is happening over the next 10 or 20 years, still a pretty long time period for projections..." [Hearing on CBO Long-Term Budget Outlook, 7/16/09

In July of that same year he gave a very damaging assessment of obamacare saying there were no price controls. Along with saying obamacare will raise costs of healthcare across the board. Boehners plan focuses on cutting costs of health care without causing taxes to increase. Whereas obamacare focuses on getting everyone insurance along with taxpayers getting a hefty bill for it all.

2019 eh? Well an authoritarian has no scruples. I haven't time right now to look but how does the rep plan propose to cut costs? My bet is they haven't a clue either. Most people don't and don't want to.

 

[rudder]

Here is some other good readings on the analysis of the same guy who came up with the OP's 52 million uninsured figure:

http://blogs.investors.com/capitalh.../2154-cbo-confirms-obamacare-discourages-work

http://www.avikroy.org/2010/06/cbos-elmendorf-bluntly-rebukes.html

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/10/26/even-cbo-is-skeptical-of-obamacare/

CBO's analysis of ObamaCare predicts that it will reduce the amount of labor being used in the economy by roughly half a percent.

* Elmendorf states that this impact will be small, but in reality the impact is small only in relative terms.
* For instance, a half-percent loss in jobs in the American economy today would translate into about 750,000 additional Americans losing work.


So what says you OP? If he is spot on about the 52 million uninsured figure... he must be spot on about the problems we will face with obamacare.

 

[MrX8503]

A government health insurance helps this by allowing those who can buy affordable insurance to be a part of the healthcare system. More buyers in the system alleviates some of the strain of those who dont pay. People who can't afford it at all, will and always will raise your rates, Obamacare or not.

 

[zsdersw]

Once the talking points shift and the GOP gets around to governing (as opposed to campaigning) I predict that there will be no bill to "repeal Obamacare", now or after the 2012 election. Remember, some individual provisions of Obamacare are highly popular; it would be political suicide for Republicans to do a sea-change repeal.

What's infinitely more likely than repeal is softening/massaging of the individual items in the bill that are most difficult/burdensome for individuals and businesses.

This will not fix health care, either.. but the GOP will be able to say they fixed the Obamacare bill, and everyone will fall for it as the GOP fixing health care once and for all.

 

[halik]

Yeah because there isn't such a thing as poor people with kids. Great solution.

People seem to forget that there are people in this country living under poverty, you don't have to travel to a 3rd world country to see them.

My point is that bringing up the idea of having a kid to prove that insurance is unaffordable is moot point as best. On minimum wage, kids are unaffordable - fixing health insurance won't fix the economics of that.

 

[rudder]

2019 eh? Well an authoritarian has no scruples. I haven't time right now to look but how does the rep plan propose to cut costs? My bet is they haven't a clue either. Most people don't and don't want to.

It proposes to cut costs by allowing people to shop outside their state for insurance. This would encourage states to ease regulations allowing companies to offer more competitive premiums. People in certain states who only had expensive premium options could then buy plans from states where premiums offered were cheaper. This would then increase the number of insured.

Another thing mentioned was capping medical liability cases. Here the CBO predicted that it would reduce the federal deficit by $54 billion by 2019.

The plan still needs major work. Nothing in that bill does anything to reduce runaway medicare costs for example. The upside to this plan is that there are no federal mandates to buy insurance and no new taxes.

but obamacare was pushed down our throats... so here we are. Once people get something for free... it is very hard to take away. obamacare will be very hard to repeal. The voters like that insurance companies now have to take everyone one without preconditions and cover little billy until he is 26... although it will make my premiums skyrocket. That two years of democratic party rule cause a lot of problems.

 

[PeshakJang]

Why is it that we pay more for health insurance, but yet we don't have the best healthcare coverage? We pay more, but get less, sounds like a bad deal.

Because for many years, we have subsidized the health care of just about every other country in the world through our R&D and technological advancements. If a drug company isn't allowed to make a profit in most of Europe, they need to make a profit in the US to cover their development expenses. We have the most advanced technology in the world in terms of health care. Countries with socialized systems prohibit companies that develop and build these systems from making enough money to be profitable, so costs have been continually shifted to US payers.

As already pointed out, costs are going up because people are living more and more unhealthy lifestyles over time, while demanding the most advanced technology and latest drugs to keep them alive longer. Too many people want to think that it is a fixed-cost system, where there is no change in supply or demand, when in reality demand continues to increase faster than supply. The more we try to artificially lower prices and continue to ignore the underlying societal health issues, the longer the problem will fester.

 

[PeshakJang]

Luckily my doctor fought with Medicaid, who denied me, because they didn't deem it as life threatening

..

The lack of concern for fellow humans by some of the internet hardasses is sickening,

That actually sounds like lack of concern from the government-run health care system that so many people want to give more control.

I'm glad you are ok, but in your opinion, what was open-heart surgery worth? What should it cost? Where did that $250,000 go?

 

[PeshakJang]

Have you guys forgotten the 85 cents rule that kicks in in 2013?

No matter what they charge you you get 85 cents back from every dollar not spent on your health care. The company keeps 15 percent profit and get 13 cents more than what it takes to administer social security....

How is that not saving me money?

Are you serious? I thought the *whole* point of the HC bill was to get more people on the system, so there were more payers to spread the costs upon? How would that lower costs if the insurers are forced to give back 85% of unused premiums? That would completely negate the premise of insurance to begin with.

I would hope that it actually says 85 percent of *total* unspent dollars... not individual premiums. That would make more sense. If a company had $10,000,000 in collected premiums at the end of a year, it would return $850,000 to members... that would make more sense, albeit still pretty stupid.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Everyone knows that preventative measures is cheaper and more effective in saving lives. I change my car oil when it needs to be changed, not when my car engine seizes.

then don't complain that a regular checkup costs $250 and bloodwork costs $1000.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

The 85/15 rule is that insurance companies must spend 85% of their premium revenue in insurance payouts, capping the amount they can use for everything else at 15%. If they took in $100M one year, and spent $80M on payouts that year, They would keep $15M, and refund $5M to their customers. The idea is to keep premiums in line with actual costs.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

That actually sounds like lack of concern from the government-run health care system that so many people want to give more control.

I'm glad you are ok, but in your opinion, what was open-heart surgery worth? What should it cost? Where did that $250,000 go?

Thank you, and I wasn't saying it wasn't worth 250k, I was stating how much it cost 15 years ago, who knows what it costs today? And it wouldn't be government run health care, it'd be insurance companies, if I remember right, and I wouldn't be shunned for having a pre-existing condition.

The inept folks who rubber stamp 'yes' or 'no' are in the insurance offices as well. If healthcare was universal in 1995, my trouble getting help to pay for this would have been a non-issue, correct?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I wonder when people will start to educate themselves so they will understand what health care is? Looks like never.

 

[Thump553]

AEtna just released their quarterly results yesterday-they paid 82% of premium revenue on medical payouts. Last year they had an extraordinarily large payout rate-84%. Since then they have raised premiums very substantially.

As a so-called liberal I'd like to call the right wing blowhards to their bluff. I propose to eliminate the payroll tax deduction for health insurance so that if your employer wants to offer you health insurance, you and they have to pay the full cost-the true capitalistic solution. Then see how many of you whine and cry.

BYW, I'm self employed and buy our own health coverage. Two people, excellent health, no preexisting conditions, cost is just over $500 per month-for a plan with a $15,000 deductible. And I send hours shopping and comparing insurers at least once a year. The vast number of Americans-including probably 99.9% of the right wing blowhards-have absolutely no idea what health insurance and health costs actually are, they look at their deductibles from their company provided plan plus the pittance the company requires them to pay in.

 

[SearchMaster]

Yup you get a rebate check at the end of the year..... This provision to me is the biggest reason that douchebag that just got elected in FLA for governor spent a small fortune creating the patients bill of rights scream campaign of that wonderful summer....


Can anyone tell me this provision is bad?

You don't understand how insurance pools work, do you?