Blu-Ray versus HD-DVD (old)

[dwell]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
But my freeway only goes 40mph, so it is irrelevent to me. Additionally, even if my freeway *could* go 55, does that mean I want to go 55? Some people see additional benefit in going 55, but some do not. However, you're attempting to say that *everybody* should buy a car that can go 55 just because you say so, screw whether they see value in going 55 or not, screw whether buying a car going 40 rather than 55 is cheaper. You're attempting to pigeonhole *everybody* into going 55mph because you simply thing they should.

No, I am saying a device which plays back media in 1080p format should at least support 1080p. 1080i is fine for a cheap DVD upscaler, as the original content is in 480p. Every single HD-DVD on the market is in 1080p, so every single HD-DVD player should support HD-DVD.

That's great, I don't play games, and I have an ipod with a direct connector to my receiver, so I don't need anything else. Yet again, you attempt to pigeonhole everybody.

Did I ask you do buy a PS3?

My "rep", sorry, but my "rep" will survive me being wrong. It won't be 93k, but it won't outsell the Wii and I am sure it'll barely get above 360 numbers.

So say it's selling over 200k next time, instead of being a comment removed and throwing out the irrelevant 96k figure as if it's current.

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1) No personally attacking members.

-Schadenfroh

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
But my freeway only goes 40mph, so it is irrelevent to me. Additionally, even if my freeway *could* go 55, does that mean I want to go 55? Some people see additional benefit in going 55, but some do not. However, you're attempting to say that *everybody* should buy a car that can go 55 just because you say so, screw whether they see value in going 55 or not, screw whether buying a car going 40 rather than 55 is cheaper. You're attempting to pigeonhole *everybody* into going 55mph because you simply thing they should.

No, I am saying a device which plays back media in 1080p format should at least support 1080p. 1080i is fine for a cheap DVD upscaler, as the original content is in 480p. Every single HD-DVD on the market is in 1080p, so every single HD-DVD player should support HD-DVD.

That's great, I don't play games, and I have an ipod with a direct connector to my receiver, so I don't need anything else. Yet again, you attempt to pigeonhole everybody.

Did I ask you do buy a PS3?

My "rep", sorry, but my "rep" will survive me being wrong. It won't be 93k, but it won't outsell the Wii and I am sure it'll barely get above 360 numbers.

So say it's selling over 200k next time, instead of being a slimy little worm and throwing out the irrelevant 96k figure as if it's current.

The last number I saw was 96k, not 200k. When the July NDP numbers come out later this week we will see. I wasn't beign a slimy little worm BTW, but thanks for the name calling.

Who cares if the media plays 1080p? Does it matter to me if I have a 1080i set? Not one damn bit. Additionally, all the data in 1080i is the same as 1080p.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Chris
So say it's selling over 200k next time, instead of being a slimy little worm and throwing out the irrelevant 96k figure as if it's current.

Quoted for the forum and senior moderators to see. Attack the post, not the poster, Chris. Personal attacks will result in your posting privileges being suspended.

 

[Slammy1]

I don't care who wins, so long as PC drives become reasonable (sub $100) soon. I know I can get an A2 and tear the drive out, but I don't want to spend $500 for a drive that will be less than 1/2 that next year.

 

[montypythizzle]

I wish HDCP would go away

 

[Reckoner]

The HD player segment is so insignificant at this point, that this "war" will drag out for years. If anything, Universal's CEO sounded steadfast regarding HD-DVD support, and doesn't sound like a guy planning on going neutral anytime soon.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
The HD player segment is so insignificant at this point, that this "war" will drag out for years. If anything, Universal's CEO sounded steadfast regarding HD-DVD support, and doesn't sound like a guy planning on going neutral anytime soon.

Interview with Universal's CEO

based on this, he basically admits it just a matter of time before blu ray wins and realizes that Universal alone is keeping HD DVD alive...

"Even if, for the sake of argument, you go along with Universal's belief that the format war is driving prices down more quickly, Kornblau admits that there is only a limited window of time for which this situation can be interpreted as beneficial for consumers, retailers, and studios. He says that window will start to close when players drop to a price of $200 and consumers start making their choice, which is what will guide Universal's ultimate course."

 

[dwell]

He pretty much admits that Microsoft has been moneyhatting Universal to act as a monkey wrench in the Blu-Ray agenda. There's only so long this strategy will work. Toshiba is the only company making cheap players and they are reportedly selling at a loss to get there. With the cost of Blu-Ray parts dropping, all of the third-party Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players will drop around the same time. In the mean time the PS3 keeps the cheap HD-DVD players at bay.

Weinstein is reportedly jumping ship at the end of the year, I think it's only a matter of time before GE (Universal's parent company) and shareholders put an end to this nonsense and force Universal to go multi-format.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
The HD player segment is so insignificant at this point, that this "war" will drag out for years. If anything, Universal's CEO sounded steadfast regarding HD-DVD support, and doesn't sound like a guy planning on going neutral anytime soon.

Interview with Universal's CEO

based on this, he basically admits it just a matter of time before blu ray wins and realizes that Universal alone is keeping HD DVD alive...

"Even if, for the sake of argument, you go along with Universal's belief that the format war is driving prices down more quickly, Kornblau admits that there is only a limited window of time for which this situation can be interpreted as beneficial for consumers, retailers, and studios. He says that window will start to close when players drop to a price of $200 and consumers start making their choice, which is what will guide Universal's ultimate course."

Huh? Look a little beyond your bold to the next sentence. This is what I have been saying for the longest time. The first player to hit the sub 200 market will drive the volume from consumers. Consumers will determine who wins this war, not a ceo.

How you got he admits it is only a matter of time till Blu Ray wins out of that is a testament to what the fanboi glasses can do.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
The HD player segment is so insignificant at this point, that this "war" will drag out for years. If anything, Universal's CEO sounded steadfast regarding HD-DVD support, and doesn't sound like a guy planning on going neutral anytime soon.

I was reading an article in one of the papers regarding the upcomming format wars and adoption of HD media. Even the proponents of both formats are only expecting HD content, be it Blu Ray or HD-DVD will hold ~46% of the market by 2012. That is 5 years, in 5 years who the hell knows what is going to happen. In 5 years it could very well be people dont even use DVDs for movies anymore and get it all via the net or on demand programming.

This whole war is like the war between consoles. Unsatisfying and redundent.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Huh? Look a little beyond your bold to the next sentence. This is what I have been saying for the longest time. The first player to hit the sub 200 market will drive the volume from consumers. Consumers will determine who wins this war, not a ceo.

How you got he admits it is only a matter of time till Blu Ray wins out of that is a testament to what the fanboi glasses can do.

From the article:

With Universal the only holdout in sticking with HD DVD exclusively, Kornblau reluctantly concedes that HD DVD's position is just fragile enough that if Universal decided to release in Blu-ray now, it would have a serious, if not life-threatening impact on the future of HD DVD

Here he admits that HD DVD is already in a precarious position...

Even if, for the sake of argument, you go along with Universal's belief that the format war is driving prices down more quickly, Kornblau admits that there is only a limited window of time for which this situation can be interpreted as beneficial for consumers, retailers, and studios. He says that window will start to close when players drop to a price of $200 and consumers start making their choice, which is what will guide Universal's ultimate course.

The consumers have been making their choice...Blu ray hardware and software sales both heavily favor blu ray...come Christmas time, the HD DVD exclusive lineup doesn't have a chance against blu ray's avalance of blockbuster hits...HD DVD has no answer for the sales volumes of these exclusives (any sales of Bourne 3 will be negated by the sheer volume of blu ray buyers)...Comedies never do as well as action flicks, so Knocked Up, Evan Almighty and Chuck/Larry won't make a dent in the numbers...

What is HD DVD going to do make consumers buy HD DVD? The majority of consumers are going to want those blu ray exclusives. There is nothing HD DVD can do about that...If they want Spiderman, Pirates, Cars, Ratitiouille, etc, they sure as heck won't be buying HD DVD...rumours are swirling that we should see some Fox releases within 2 weeks...again, HD DVD has no answer for the Fox catalog (Aliens, Die Hard, Predator, Robocop, etc, etc) will just add to slaughter while Universal has been pumping out sub quality catalog releases in the past two months...

So basically, Ken's question about choice is pretty much answered already since HD DVD has no tricks up it sleeve to change the tide...GE, Universal's parent company, has already hinted about neutrality...

So unless you can pony up a realistic scenario where HD DVD can even win one week of sales against blu ray (which they have not done ALL YEAR long - even in weeks where blu ray has no new releases, blu ray still won by a large margin), please let us know what hope they have to win this battle...

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: Genx87
Huh? Look a little beyond your bold to the next sentence. This is what I have been saying for the longest time. The first player to hit the sub 200 market will drive the volume from consumers. Consumers will determine who wins this war, not a ceo.

How you got he admits it is only a matter of time till Blu Ray wins out of that is a testament to what the fanboi glasses can do.

From the article:

With Universal the only holdout in sticking with HD DVD exclusively, Kornblau reluctantly concedes that HD DVD's position is just fragile enough that if Universal decided to release in Blu-ray now, it would have a serious, if not life-threatening impact on the future of HD DVD

Here he admits that HD DVD is already in a precarious position...

Even if, for the sake of argument, you go along with Universal's belief that the format war is driving prices down more quickly, Kornblau admits that there is only a limited window of time for which this situation can be interpreted as beneficial for consumers, retailers, and studios. He says that window will start to close when players drop to a price of $200 and consumers start making their choice, which is what will guide Universal's ultimate course.

The consumers have been making their choice...Blu ray hardware and software sales both heavily favor blu ray...come Christmas time, the HD DVD exclusive lineup doesn't have a chance against blu ray's avalance of blockbuster hits...HD DVD has no answer for the sales volumes of these exclusives (any sales of Bourne 3 will be negated by the sheer volume of blu ray buyers)...Comedies never do as well as action flicks, so Knocked Up, Evan Almighty and Chuck/Larry won't make a dent in the numbers...

What is HD DVD going to do make consumers buy HD DVD? The majority of consumers are going to want those blu ray exclusives. There is nothing HD DVD can do about that...If they want Spiderman, Pirates, Cars, Ratitiouille, etc, they sure as heck won't be buying HD DVD...rumours are swirling that we should see some Fox releases within 2 weeks...again, HD DVD has no answer for the Fox catalog (Aliens, Die Hard, Predator, Robocop, etc, etc) will just add to slaughter while Universal has been pumping out sub quality catalog releases in the past two months...

So basically, Ken's question about choice is pretty much answered already since HD DVD has no tricks up it sleeve to change the tide...GE, Universal's parent company, has already hinted about neutrality...

So unless you can pony up a realistic scenario where HD DVD can even win one week of sales against blu ray (which they have not done ALL YEAR long - even in weeks where blu ray has no new releases, blu ray still won by a large margin), please let us know what hope they have to win this battle...

What is causing HD-DVD stand alones to outsell their Bluray counterparts now? Price price price.

Avg joe consumer doesnt follow which movie house produces on which format. They go to the store, look for the phrase high definition and look for the cheapest part they can buy.

The realistic scenario you crave is down the line and I have said this many many many times which you fail to grasp. Eventually one of the players will hit a price point that causes its sales to take off. If for instance HD-DVD stand alones started selling at 180 bucks and then outsold their Blu Ray counterparts 4:1. How long do you think it will take for HD-DVD players shear volume in the channel of stand alone players to overtake Blu Ray in movie sales?

You thinking this is going to happen next week is silly. This is months away at the earliest.
It can happen if HD-DVD players hit that spot before the legs are pulled from it. I dont think you are going to see the legs pulled from that format within the next 6-12 months however. Too many companies are committing to players and they wouldnt do that if they didnt think there would be at least one studio selling HD-DVD movies.

Toshiba sure, but others, they dont want to invest in R&D and manufacturing lines for a format they know is about to to be completely pulled.

And for the record I can give two shats about either. I am hoping for a 3rd option of downloadable movies and on-demand programming. Storing your movies on a plastic medium has outlived its usefullness IMO.

Apple should open an iMovie store and sell away.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: Genx87

What is causing HD-DVD stand alones to outsell their Bluray counterparts now? Price price price.

blu ray stand alones sales are catching up quickly and retailers are noticing...

Text

Originally posted by: Genx87
Avg joe consumer doesnt follow which movie house produces on which format. They go to the store, look for the phrase high definition and look for the cheapest part they can buy.

When they find out they can't get Spiderman or Pirates, they won't be happy campers...when they find out they can't get any Disney, Fox, Sony (which owns MGM Studios and Columbia Pictures) or Lionsgate movies on HD DVD, I would imagine they would get down right pissed...

Originally posted by: Genx87
The realistic scenario you crave is down the line and I have said this many many many times which you fail to grasp. Eventually one of the players will hit a price point that causes its sales to take off. If for instance HD-DVD stand alones started selling at 180 bucks and then outsold their Blu Ray counterparts 4:1. How long do you think it will take for HD-DVD players shear volume in the channel of stand alone players to overtake Blu Ray in movie sales?

The fact of the matter is that studio content matters...it is not just price, but value...what good is an HD DVD player that is exclusively backed by only ONE major studio??? this is why blu ray has been winning all year even though HD DVD has cheaper standalone prices...it will make a difference when people go to buy high definition players this Christmas...

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: Genx87
What is causing HD-DVD stand alones to outsell their Bluray counterparts now? Price price price.

Avg joe consumer doesnt follow which movie house produces on which format. They go to the store, look for the phrase high definition and look for the cheapest part they can buy.

The realistic scenario you crave is down the line and I have said this many many many times which you fail to grasp. Eventually one of the players will hit a price point that causes its sales to take off. If for instance HD-DVD stand alones started selling at 180 bucks and then outsold their Blu Ray counterparts 4:1. How long do you think it will take for HD-DVD players shear volume in the channel of stand alone players to overtake Blu Ray in movie sales?

You thinking this is going to happen next week is silly. This is months away at the earliest.
It can happen if HD-DVD players hit that spot before the legs are pulled from it. I dont think you are going to see the legs pulled from that format within the next 6-12 months however. Too many companies are committing to players and they wouldnt do that if they didnt think there would be at least one studio selling HD-DVD movies.

Toshiba sure, but others, they dont want to invest in R&D and manufacturing lines for a format they know is about to to be completely pulled.

And for the record I can give two shats about either. I am hoping for a 3rd option of downloadable movies and on-demand programming. Storing your movies on a plastic medium has outlived its usefullness IMO.

Apple should open an iMovie store and sell away.

In one sense, you're giving the consumer too much credit. In another sense, you're not giving the consumer enough credit.

I believe that Sony, Fox, & Disney together are big enough to dictate the industry, along with Warner's help. I don't find Blu-ray an offensive product, so I don't get all worked up over it. There's no guarantee that these studios will ever release on HD DVD. My one player purchase and 20 movies have persuaded exactly zero studios to rethink their release strategies. Individual consumers do not have that kind of power.

On the other hand, you're assuming that consumers in mass walk into stores and do no research on their purchases, except to look at the price tag. Even people who don't understand the products, they do know enough to ask people who would know. I don't believe for a second that there is any magical price point that will open the flood gates of player purchases, while a format war of two nearly identical products continues on. Consumers do what research they can before purchasing.

 

[tatteredpotato]

Just got my 360 add on for 154 + shipping. Couldn't be happier sitting here watching Planet Earth from Netflix.

 

[Genx87]

blu ray stand alones sales are catching up quickly and retailers are noticing...

Link doesnt work for me.

When they find out they can't get Spiderman or Pirates, they won't be happy campers...when they find out they can't get any Disney, Fox, Sony (which owns MGM Studios and Columbia Pictures) or Lionsgate movies on HD DVD, I would imagine they would get down right pissed...

Right and who do you think they will be pissed at? The player or the movie studio house? They own the player so expect complaints to be filed with the movie studio house.

The fact of the matter is that studio content matters...it is not just price, but value...what good is an HD DVD player that is exclusively backed by only ONE major studio??? this is why blu ray has been winning all year even though HD DVD has cheaper standalone prices...it will make a difference when people go to buy high definition players this Christmas...

Like I said, I doubt avg joe even follows this and thus wouldnt know until after the fact. Blu Ray has been winning thanks to the PS3 allowing the format to have a several million unit head start, not because of content.

 

[montypythizzle]

Not another HD-DVD fan, can you clearly see that this is a Blu-Ray only thread, clearly the more enticing format.

 

[mlm]

Originally posted by: Genx87

blu ray stand alones sales are catching up quickly and retailers are noticing...

Link doesnt work for me.

Try it again. There's no problem with the link over here.

 

[herkulease]

I figure this is the best thread to ask questions. I have neither, though I'm thinking ever so slightly about getting a ps3 just for blu-ray and maybe games down the line. that 400 deal is really tempting me. I know I'm gonna hear it for a week. Plus I can always just borrow my friend's before hand to be sure. anyhow questions...

1. when are movies prices are gonna be coming down? the suggested price of 90 bucks for spiderman hd trilogy is down right ridiculous. 50 bucks for just spidey 3 is crazy.

I know stores typically sell less than thatbut its usually X% off the suggested price.

2. with these HD releases, and the vast amount of disc space, I assume most movies will include real extras? I don't want to see some the crap I've seen released lately on DVD. for example Dead Man's chest. single disc version and 2 disc version. the single disc version was just the 1st disc of the 2 disc version.

3. What's a good site that shows what's coming soon? Including what's included in terms of extras for movies. Content matters to me. Especially TV series. I want to cut down on shelf space.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: herkulease
I figure this is the best thread to ask questions. I have neither, though I'm thinking ever so slightly about getting a ps3 just for blu-ray and maybe games down the line. that 400 deal is really tempting me. I know I'm gonna hear it for a week. Plus I can always just borrow my friend's before hand to be sure. anyhow questions...

1. when are movies prices are gonna be coming down? the suggested price of 90 bucks for spiderman hd trilogy is down right ridiculous. 50 bucks for just spidey 3 is crazy.

I know stores typically sell less than thatbut its usually X% off the suggested price.

2. with these HD releases, and the vast amount of disc space, I assume most movies will include real extras? I don't want to see some the crap I've seen released lately on DVD. for example Dead Man's chest. single disc version and 2 disc version. the single disc version was just the 1st disc of the 2 disc version.

3. What's a good site that shows what's coming soon? Including what's included in terms of extras for movies. Content matters to me. Especially TV series. I want to cut down on shelf space.

1) It's been mentioned by a Sony employee on another forum that they are reconsidering the MSRP of Spiderman 3 - but either way, that title is rare, most are $25-$30 for new releases.

2) It still depends on the studio if it wants to include more extras. Fox seems to not care at all about including extras, while Warner has been the biggest supporter of providing extra features. When the PS3 gets updated to include picture-in-picture features, Warner is ready to release some titles to take advantage of it, Matrix, rumored re-release of 300, and likely Batman Begins too. The Pirates of the Caribbean movies on Blu-ray are 2-disc releases loaded with extras, and play the smoothest on the PS3. Disney is supposedly planning on adding internet enabled features to some releases next year. Cars released in November is supposed to also have some new unique movie watching extras, not sure on the details.

3) http://www.blu-ray.com best site for Blu-ray information.

 

[mlm]

Originally posted by: herkulease
1. when are movies prices are gonna be coming down? the suggested price of 90 bucks for spiderman hd trilogy is down right ridiculous. 50 bucks for just spidey 3 is crazy.

As long as you're proactive about it, prices aren't too bad. There are regularly deals that bring things down to $15 or less.

As for the Spiderman trilogy, I saw on another forum that Walmart had it for $70.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: herkulease
1. when are movies prices are gonna be coming down? the suggested price of 90 bucks for spiderman hd trilogy is down right ridiculous. 50 bucks for just spidey 3 is crazy.

If you really have to own them, soon, that is the price you pay for relatively early adoption. Otherwise, rent them from netflix or BB, then when copies start showing up used for a reasonable price, buy them. That si my plan anyways.

 

[dwell]

This site is amusing for the hyperbole and lies alone:

http://say-no-to-blu-ray.com

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: herkulease
1. when are movies prices are gonna be coming down? the suggested price of 90 bucks for spiderman hd trilogy is down right ridiculous. 50 bucks for just spidey 3 is crazy.

Much sooner than you think:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog....do?product_id=7080108

(assuming it's not an online price mistake, certainly)

 

[Reckoner]

For Blu-Ray users- why would you want to support a company like Sony?