Blu-Ray versus HD-DVD (old)

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
And those low-end 1080p sets won't show much of a difference between 1080i and 1080p, especially since they'll be smaller and lower quality in display. Considering you need a 50" tv at less than 7' to tell a difference, I am sure it doesn't matter for them. Additionally, with a lower end tv they aren't out for the top-end quality, thus they'll not be looking for the best of the best.

The cheap 1080p sets do not have to be small. There are plenty of 50" sets with crap de-interlacers. That's besides the point anyway, even a 40" set with a poor de-interlacer is going to decode the 1080i output poorly. What's your solution? Watch in 720p to accommodate the gimped output of the HD-A2?

I wouldn't hold my breath about Samsung and LG switching, they are still in the DVD consortium.

That's nice but that only applies to DVD players. They are committed to Blu-Ray this gen.

The 199 player doesn't have to be sold in WM does it?

A $199 Chinese player. You get what you pay for.

Again, somebody who chose a lower market segment aren't exactly perfectly discerning. If they are they can pay a bit more and get the A20, so I don't see you point. The A2 is for a different market segment, merely saying everybody has to fit into one scheme is stupid and ignorant to marketing forces. I wouldn't expect anything less from a blubot though. Simple knowledge of economics and marketing seem to be too difficult for you.

I guarantee you're going to eat crow on that in much less than a year.

Doesn't matter, yet another market segment. You're elitism is pretty disgusting.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Ohhh gawd no. How will Onkyo compete with their 1,700 DV-SP1000 DVD player compared to the $29.99 COBY DVD-224s!!!

THE HORRORS! DVD WILL FAIL! ONKYO WILL GO OUT OF BUSINESS!!!ARGHHHHGHGHGHHG


FFS, haven't you ever heard of market segmentation?

This proves nothing about whether Toshiba is making or losing money on hd dvd players. All it proves is that you're going to stoop to any level possible to try and make what you think is a good point, including ignoring all marketing and economics information.

People are already salivating for this player. Why? Because they're the same people who want the best of everything and pay for it.

So, you're basically admitting the HD-A2 is a POS. Thanks for proving an earlier point of mine.

lol, nice comparison. No, I am not admitting that, I was just highlighting the fact that companies target different market segments, obviously I took the highest onkyo and compared it to the lowest priced Amazon DVD player I could find.

Naturally, when you can't come back with anything better you are going to resort to making a comparison like that.

The HD-A2 is far from a POS. It meets the needs of people who don't want to buy the highest end at this point. I guess anybody who buys a Toyota vs a Lexus is buying a POS too. Additionally, if anybody buys anything but an Oppo DVD player, it's crap. That's why it's called "market segmentation".

As far as the whole 1080p thing, the player transmits all data needed for 1080p, the TV can do delinterlacing just fine as long as you're not hooking it up to a crap tv. So if you're going to upgrade, like I probably will to a Pio 5080 next year, there'll be no difference.

Some people prefer all conversion to be done at the source level, but I don't think it matters much. IF somebody can show me to the contrary I'd be interested.

Keep grasping at straws while more and more companies hitch onto the wagon train. I am sure that as soon as the Broadcom/MS SoC is rolling LG and Samsung will be pushing out SAL HD DVD players like crazy, not to mention the $199 chinese player.

 

[Rio Rebel]

Onkyo is making an HD-DVD player. That is interesting news.

Let's not turn this into yet another hd format flamefest.

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Again, somebody who chose a lower market segment aren't exactly perfectly discerning. If they are they can pay a bit more and get the A20, so I don't see you point. The A2 is for a different market segment, merely saying everybody has to fit into one scheme is stupid and ignorant to marketing forces. I wouldn't expect anything less from a blubot though. Simple knowledge of economics and marketing seem to be too difficult for you.

So again you claim the HD-A2 is a crap player to get out of one argument, then you'll dance around with this "different segment" spheel the next. If an owner cannot "discern" the flickering walls in MI2 when played through the HD-A2, I don't know what to say about that "segment".

I guarantee you're going to eat crow on that in much less than a year.

We'll see how long Universal can hold out. They did not resign their contract with Toshiba yet, despite what you claim.

 

[montypythizzle]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Ohhh gawd no. How will Onkyo compete with their 1,700 DV-SP1000 DVD player compared to the $29.99 COBY DVD-224s!!!

THE HORRORS! DVD WILL FAIL! ONKYO WILL GO OUT OF BUSINESS!!!ARGHHHHGHGHGHHG


FFS, haven't you ever heard of market segmentation?

This proves nothing about whether Toshiba is making or losing money on hd dvd players. All it proves is that you're going to stoop to any level possible to try and make what you think is a good point, including ignoring all marketing and economics information.

People are already salivating for this player. Why? Because they're the same people who want the best of everything and pay for it.

So, you're basically admitting the HD-A2 is a POS. Thanks for proving an earlier point of mine.

lol, nice comparison. No, I am not admitting that, I was just highlighting the fact that companies target different market segments, obviously I took the highest onkyo and compared it to the lowest priced Amazon DVD player I could find.

Naturally, when you can't come back with anything better you are going to resort to making a comparison like that.

The HD-A2 is far from a POS. It meets the needs of people who don't want to buy the highest end at this point. I guess anybody who buys a Toyota vs a Lexus is buying a POS too. Additionally, if anybody buys anything but an Oppo DVD player, it's crap. That's why it's called "market segmentation".

As far as the whole 1080p thing, the player transmits all data needed for 1080p, the TV can do delinterlacing just fine as long as you're not hooking it up to a crap tv. So if you're going to upgrade, like I probably will to a Pio 5080 next year, there'll be no difference.

Some people prefer all conversion to be done at the source level, but I don't think it matters much. IF somebody can show me to the contrary I'd be interested.

Keep grasping at straws while more and more companies hitch onto the wagon train. I am sure that as soon as the Broadcom/MS SoC is rolling LG and Samsung will be pushing out SAL HD DVD players like crazy, not to mention the $199 chinese player.

Methinks Toyota makes Lexus, or something similar. Your car comparison is null, same Japanese quality (they take pride in their work).

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
So you're telling me that no Blu-Ray player has playback issues? Are you certain you want to go down that road?

For one stupid shimmering wall from a non-AVS specific reviewer, you're willing to trash a whole player?

Please, if that isn't the height of stupidity I don't know what is.

No, I am going to tell you that relying on the TV to do 1080i interlacing has problems. Solution: Have the player output in 1080p.

Again, not everybody needs, nor wants, 1080p. Forcing everybody into your paradigm is pretty arrogant, typical of your type though.

Have you ever typed anything that's not an insult? Just curious. So, what you're saying here is that not everyone needs nor wants full capabilities?

What are full capabilities?

Is that IME, 10080p/i, lossless? It's all about choice.

If everybody was stuck with one single car with one price that had a V6, then what would you think about that? Would you say that it's fine or would you crave something more?

What if somebody offered a car with a I4, would that car suddenly be called crap? What about people who only want or need an I4 compared to a V6? Would they be called losers and then people who had V6's suddenly jump on them everywhere to taunt, belittle, and berate them?

In order to capture all stratifications of society and market you should approach the target segment with multiple models. It's a simple approach.

I do not need, nor want, 1080p. Thus, I do not think the HD-A2 is crap. I haven't had one playback issue nor image quality issues. Simply pointing to one incident is nothing but anecdotal evidence and does not highlight a major flaw with the player. It could have been an isolated incident, it could have been his set, it could have been an old firmware and something was fixed. Who knows.

However, calling a lower-tier player crap is not right and should be curbed.

 

[jtvang125]

Ok, nobody really knows who will win yet. That was just a little jab at the people that claim Br is going to win with every positive BR news.

DailyTech

Probably more of a niche market but it's always good to see more supporters of the format. And all the people who think the war is about to end, I think it's just started.

 

[tatteredpotato]

Originally posted by: Chris
The fact that Onkyo HD-DVD players are the same price as Blu-Ray playes proves Toshiba is losing a boatload money on each unit sold in order to try and gain traction. The reason very few companies want to make HD-DVD players is they don't want to compete with Toshiba in a niche market. How is Onkyo going to justify a $899 price tag is Toshiba has players for as little as $299?

Obviously it costs exactly the same to make every HD DVD player in existence.

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
And those low-end 1080p sets won't show much of a difference between 1080i and 1080p, especially since they'll be smaller and lower quality in display. Considering you need a 50" tv at less than 7' to tell a difference, I am sure it doesn't matter for them. Additionally, with a lower end tv they aren't out for the top-end quality, thus they'll not be looking for the best of the best.

The cheap 1080p sets do not have to be small. There are plenty of 50" sets with crap de-interlacers. That's besides the point anyway, even a 40" set with a poor de-interlacer is going to decode the 1080i output poorly. What's your solution? Watch in 720p to accommodate the gimped output of the HD-A2?

I wouldn't hold my breath about Samsung and LG switching, they are still in the DVD consortium.

That's nice but that only applies to DVD players. They are committed to Blu-Ray this gen.

The 199 player doesn't have to be sold in WM does it?

A $199 Chinese player. You get what you pay for.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Again, somebody who chose a lower market segment aren't exactly perfectly discerning. If they are they can pay a bit more and get the A20, so I don't see you point. The A2 is for a different market segment, merely saying everybody has to fit into one scheme is stupid and ignorant to marketing forces. I wouldn't expect anything less from a blubot though. Simple knowledge of economics and marketing seem to be too difficult for you.

So again you claim the HD-A2 is a crap player to get out of one argument, then you'll dance around with this "different segment" spheel the next. If an owner cannot "discern" the flickering walls in MI2 when played through the HD-A2, I don't know what to say about that "segment".

I guarantee you're going to eat crow on that in much less than a year.

We'll see how long Universal can hold out. They did not resign their contract with Toshiba yet, despite what you claim.

So you're telling me that no Blu-Ray player has playback issues? Are you certain you want to go down that road?

For one stupid shimmering wall from a non-AVS specific reviewer, you're willing to trash a whole player?

Please, if that isn't the height of stupidity I don't know what is.

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Ohhh gawd no. How will Onkyo compete with their 1,700 DV-SP1000 DVD player compared to the $29.99 COBY DVD-224s!!!

THE HORRORS! DVD WILL FAIL! ONKYO WILL GO OUT OF BUSINESS!!!ARGHHHHGHGHGHHG


FFS, haven't you ever heard of market segmentation?

This proves nothing about whether Toshiba is making or losing money on hd dvd players. All it proves is that you're going to stoop to any level possible to try and make what you think is a good point, including ignoring all marketing and economics information.

People are already salivating for this player. Why? Because they're the same people who want the best of everything and pay for it.

So, you're basically admitting the HD-A2 is a POS. Thanks for proving an earlier point of mine.

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
As far as the whole 1080p thing, the player transmits all data needed for 1080p, the TV can do delinterlacing just fine as long as you're not hooking it up to a crap tv. So if you're going to upgrade, like I probably will to a Pio 5080 next year, there'll be no difference.

The 5080 doesn't do 1080p, so what's your point?

Some people prefer all conversion to be done at the source level, but I don't think it matters much. IF somebody can show me to the contrary I'd be interested.

It does matter much. Not all sets handle de-interlacing well. Especially the low-end 1080p sets people buying the low-end HD-DVD player would have.

Keep grasping at straws while more and more companies hitch onto the wagon train. I am sure that as soon as the Broadcom/MS SoC is rolling LG and Samsung will be pushing out SAL HD DVD players like crazy, not to mention the $199 chinese player.

Samsung and LG are in the BDA, so don't hold your breath. The $199 Chinese player/Wal-Mart megaton is more urban myth than fact. Wal-Mart's denied it, emphatically.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ar...d-dvd-player-deal.html

 

[montypythizzle]

Um, Legendkiller, do you even have an HD-DVD player?
Also, why do you spew HD-DVD fanboyism in every thread?

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
So you're telling me that no Blu-Ray player has playback issues? Are you certain you want to go down that road?

For one stupid shimmering wall from a non-AVS specific reviewer, you're willing to trash a whole player?

Please, if that isn't the height of stupidity I don't know what is.

No, I am going to tell you that relying on the TV to do 1080i interlacing has problems. Solution: Have the player output in 1080p.

Again, not everybody needs, nor wants, 1080p. Forcing everybody into your paradigm is pretty arrogant, typical of your type though.

Have you ever typed anything that's not an insult? Just curious. So, what you're saying here is that not everyone needs nor wants full capabilities?

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
So you're telling me that no Blu-Ray player has playback issues? Are you certain you want to go down that road?

For one stupid shimmering wall from a non-AVS specific reviewer, you're willing to trash a whole player?

Please, if that isn't the height of stupidity I don't know what is.

No, I am going to tell you that relying on the TV to do 1080i interlacing has problems. Solution: Have the player output in 1080p.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
So you're telling me that no Blu-Ray player has playback issues? Are you certain you want to go down that road?

For one stupid shimmering wall from a non-AVS specific reviewer, you're willing to trash a whole player?

Please, if that isn't the height of stupidity I don't know what is.

No, I am going to tell you that relying on the TV to do 1080i interlacing has problems. Solution: Have the player output in 1080p.

Again, not everybody needs, nor wants, 1080p. Forcing everybody into your paradigm is pretty arrogant, typical of your type though.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: montypythizzle

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Ohhh gawd no. How will Onkyo compete with their 1,700 DV-SP1000 DVD player compared to the $29.99 COBY DVD-224s!!!

THE HORRORS! DVD WILL FAIL! ONKYO WILL GO OUT OF BUSINESS!!!ARGHHHHGHGHGHHG


FFS, haven't you ever heard of market segmentation?

This proves nothing about whether Toshiba is making or losing money on hd dvd players. All it proves is that you're going to stoop to any level possible to try and make what you think is a good point, including ignoring all marketing and economics information.

People are already salivating for this player. Why? Because they're the same people who want the best of everything and pay for it.

So, you're basically admitting the HD-A2 is a POS. Thanks for proving an earlier point of mine.

lol, nice comparison. No, I am not admitting that, I was just highlighting the fact that companies target different market segments, obviously I took the highest onkyo and compared it to the lowest priced Amazon DVD player I could find.

Naturally, when you can't come back with anything better you are going to resort to making a comparison like that.

The HD-A2 is far from a POS. It meets the needs of people who don't want to buy the highest end at this point. I guess anybody who buys a Toyota vs a Lexus is buying a POS too. Additionally, if anybody buys anything but an Oppo DVD player, it's crap. That's why it's called "market segmentation".

As far as the whole 1080p thing, the player transmits all data needed for 1080p, the TV can do delinterlacing just fine as long as you're not hooking it up to a crap tv. So if you're going to upgrade, like I probably will to a Pio 5080 next year, there'll be no difference.

Some people prefer all conversion to be done at the source level, but I don't think it matters much. IF somebody can show me to the contrary I'd be interested.

Keep grasping at straws while more and more companies hitch onto the wagon train. I am sure that as soon as the Broadcom/MS SoC is rolling LG and Samsung will be pushing out SAL HD DVD players like crazy, not to mention the $199 chinese player.

Methinks Toyota makes Lexus, or something similar. Your car comparison is null, same Japanese quality (they take pride in their work).

Me thinks me thinks I knew that, or something like that. That was my fricking point, both are great quality, but one has some features that the other doesn't, putting them into two different market segments. A person who can't purchase a Lexus will not, a person who sees no price/perf. value in Lexus will not, but a person who can and does see that value will. To simply say that Toyota sucks because it presents more market segments to good cars is stupidity.

Not everybody thinks some features on Lexus is needed on Toyota, that's why they buy a Toyota, it's as simple as that.

However, I guess some people think everybody should buy a Lexus anyway, because not having a choice is better than having a choice.

 

[dwell]

The fact that Onkyo HD-DVD players are the same price as Blu-Ray playes proves Toshiba is losing a boatload money on each unit sold in order to try and gain traction. The reason very few companies want to make HD-DVD players is they don't want to compete with Toshiba in a niche market. How is Onkyo going to justify a $899 price tag is Toshiba has players for as little as $299?

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Again, not everybody needs, nor wants, 1080p. Forcing everybody into your paradigm is pretty arrogant, typical of your type though.

Nobody is being forced into anything. My PS3 outputs 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p. Nobody is holding a gun to owners heads making them output at 1080p. If your HD-A2 only outputs at 1080i, call a spade a spade and admits it's a gimped player. 1080p is not a luxury. It's a format that many HD devices created this year support, and going forward it will become more and more common. For a supposed hidef DVD player not to support it is ridiculous. Especially when you walk in BestBuy and see the 1080p sticker on nearly every set on the floor.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Again, not everybody needs, nor wants, 1080p. Forcing everybody into your paradigm is pretty arrogant, typical of your type though.

Nobody is being forced into anything. My PS3 outputs 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p. Nobody is holding a gun to owners heads making them output at 1080p. If your HD-A2 only outputs at 1080i, call a spade a spade and admits it's a gimped player. 1080p is not a luxury. It's a format that many HD devices created this year support, and going forward it will become more and more common. For a supposed hidef DVD player not to support it is ridiculous. Especially when you walk in BestBuy and see the 1080p sticker on nearly every set on the floor.

Is a car with a I4 "gimped" compared to one with a V6?

You paid a lot more for your PS3 than I paid for my A2, I paid $199, what did you pay?

To me, that premium between the A2 and the A20, to get 1080p, was not worth it.

I guess understanding marketing, good business practices, and other consumer items is a trivial matter to be tossed away like trash. That's why the PS3 is selling so well at it's paltry 90k players/mo. Not every consumer fits one mold, which is what Sony failed to understand. It seems fitting that many of their consumers do not understand the same lesson.

 

[montypythizzle]

He also got a game console with his player ^_^.

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Is a car with a I4 "gimped" compared to one with a V6?

A better question would be, "Is a car that only goes 40 mph gimped if the speed limit is 55?" You're doing 40 in a 55 mph zone with your A2.

You paid a lot more for your PS3 than I paid for my A2, I paid $199, what did you pay?

Like montypythizzle said I also got a game console, DNLA client, and Blu-Ray player for only $499.

That's why the PS3 is selling so well at it's paltry 90k players/mo. Not every consumer fits one mold, which is what Sony failed to understand. It seems fitting that many of their consumers do not understand the same lesson.

I love how you use outdated NPD numbers to downplay the PS3. Do you really think it's only going to sell 93k this month? Are you willing to risk your rep on that or do you want to retract that number?

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Is a car with a I4 "gimped" compared to one with a V6?

A better question would be, "Is a car that only goes 40 mph gimped if the speed limit is 55?" You're doing 40 in a 55 mph zone with your A2.

You paid a lot more for your PS3 than I paid for my A2, I paid $199, what did you pay?

Like montypythizzle said I also got a game console, DNLA client, and Blu-Ray player for only $499.

That's why the PS3 is selling so well at it's paltry 90k players/mo. Not every consumer fits one mold, which is what Sony failed to understand. It seems fitting that many of their consumers do not understand the same lesson.

I love how you use outdated NPD numbers to downplay the PS3. Do you really think it's only going to sell 93k this month? Are you willing to risk your rep on that or do you want to retract that number?

But my freeway only goes 40mph, so it is irrelevent to me. Additionally, even if my freeway *could* go 55, does that mean I want to go 55? Some people see additional benefit in going 55, but some do not. However, you're attempting to say that *everybody* should buy a car that can go 55 just because you say so, screw whether they see value in going 55 or not, screw whether buying a car going 40 rather than 55 is cheaper. You're attempting to pigeonhole *everybody* into going 55mph because you simply thing they should.

Sorry, but I'll go 40 if I want to and I'll get charged much less for doing so. I do not see the relative value proposition. I guess not everybody is willing to shell out an extra few hundred for something they don't value at all. It's nice that you want to make sure everybody does, I am sure companies just love you. Toss in "features" that don't add anything of significant value to many people, have it cost a marginal amount, charge a lot more for it.

That's great, I don't play games, and I have an ipod with a direct connector to my receiver, so I don't need anything else. Yet again, you attempt to pigeonhole everybody.

My "rep", sorry, but my "rep" will survive me being wrong. It won't be 93k, but it won't outsell the Wii and I am sure it'll barely get above 360 numbers.

 

[montypythizzle]

Heh, the PS3 is also one mean ass folding machine.

 

[Yreka]

You cant get the blockbuster "Wild Hogs" on HD DVD !!

Take that bitches !!