Black teenager who was shot after mistakenly going to the wrong house begged neighbors for help — but was ignored

[HomerJS]

Did the shooter really say that ? If not stop spreading disinformation.

Yes he did.

Ralph Yarl shooter claims he was "scared to death" in police report

According to CNN, Andrew Lester told police that he thought the 16-year-old was trying to break into his home.

www.yahoo.com

According to the report, 84-year-old Andrew Lester grabbed a revolver and approached the front entrance of his home after hearing his doorbell ring. Opening his interior door, he “saw a Black male approximately 6 feet tall pulling on the exterior storm door handle.” He claimed that he was “scared to death” and did not exchange words with Yarl.

 

[allisolm]

The shooter says he was scared because a 6 foot black man was trying to open his front door.

Ralph Yarl's family says he is 5'8" 140 lbs. and didn't try to open the door.

Who do you believe?

Did the shooter really say that ? If not stop spreading disinformation.

"According to the police report...
"Lester stated he opened the interior door, and saw a Black male approximately six feet tall pulling on the exterior storm door handle,"
He told officers that firing his revolver "was the last thing he wanted to do", but that he was "scared to death" because of Ralph's height and his own old age."

So, according to this source and others, yes, he did say that.

These key questions remain unanswered in the Ralph Yarl shooting

As Ralph Yarl begins a long road to recovery and Andrew Lester faces the possibility of a life sentence on felony charges, Io Dodds explains what we still don’t know about the shooting

www.independent.co.uk

 

[SMOGZINN]

I think it is fair to say the person did not behave in a reasonable manner both legally and what most people would presume is reasonable. Having said that he probably did behave in reasonable manner according to a certain segment of american society; but hopefully the legal aspect will never change to support that segment.

Mentally stable people act in unreasonable ways all the time. Just spend 10 minutes watching drivers on any freeway.
I don't think what he did is defensible in any way, but just because someone made a terribly bad decision does not mean they have some sort of cognitive impairment.

It is the real problem with gun culture. No one is so mentally stable that they can guarantee that under no circumstance they will not make a bad decision in an unexpected situation. We all make stupid decisions occasionally when we are under stress or emotional duress. It does not even have to be about the situation. When under emotional stress we can make poor choices about completely unrelated issues. When you mix that with a lethal weapon and at least some of the time you get something disastrous.

 

[Ajay]

Best comment I saw on Twitter yesterday.

"We were the shit hole country all along."

Every powerful nation in history is a shit hole country by that broad measure. Nations are built by people. People have many moral failings - those tend to accumulate and aggregate. The worst aspects of ourselves overcome the collective good and eventually drag all powerful nations down. It's a sad, and a bit horrifying reality of history. All this tends to happen at the apparent peak of a given nation's power. The fact that, after all this time, prejudice and discrimination against person's of color seems to be increasing, rather than having ending, is just one example of our decline. The almost 'casual' disregard of the life of the 'other' is tragic. It may not even be hate, it may just be disgust, which is actually more insidious.

 

[HomerJS]

Mentally stable people act in unreasonable ways all the time. Just spend 10 minutes watching drivers on any freeway.
I don't think what he did is defensible in any way, but just because someone made a terribly bad decision does not mean they have some sort of cognitive impairment.

It is the real problem with gun culture. No one is so mentally stable that they can guarantee that under no circumstance they will not make a bad decision in an unexpected situation. We all make stupid decisions occasionally when we are under stress or emotional duress. It does not even have to be about the situation. When under emotional stress we can make poor choices about completely unrelated issues. When you mix that with a lethal weapon and at least some of the time you get something disastrous.

My take. If you react this way under stress you not emotionally mature enough to own a gun. This can be tested.

 

[SMOGZINN]

My take. If you react this way under stress you not emotionally mature enough to own a gun. This can be tested.

I agree. That is why I say that nobody is emotionally mature enough to own a gun. Everyone occasionally makes terrible decisions when under emotional distress. EVERYONE.

 

[HomerJS]

I agree. That is why I say that nobody is emotionally mature enough to own a gun. Everyone occasionally makes terrible decisions when under emotional distress. EVERYONE.

Everyone is capable of making bad decisions. I don't think everyone would make a reactionary decision top kill another human being over a minor altercation. Example, some idiot in Texas shot at another driver out the window over road rage. I can vouch for myself I would NEVER do that over a road rage incident.

 

[interchange]

My take. If you react this way under stress you not emotionally mature enough to own a gun. This can be tested.

How do you test it?

 

[you2]

Everyone is capable of making bad decisions. I don't think everyone would make a reactionary decision top kill another human being over a minor altercation. Example, some idiot in Texas shot at another driver out the window over road rage. I can vouch for myself I would NEVER do that over a road rage incident.

do you keep a gun in your car; if so there is a reasonable chance (reasonable does not mean likely) that you will find yourself in a situation where you use that gun.

 

[HomerJS]

do you keep a gun in your car; if so there is a reasonable chance (reasonable does not mean likely) that you will find yourself in a situation where you use that gun.

Someone cutting you off is in no way justifiable to pull out a gun.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Someone cutting you off is in no way justifiable to pull out a gun.

It doesn't have to be rational or justifiable - only that the gun would be used.

If all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail.

So the mere presence of a gun allows an interaction to escalate to a lethal level very rapidly

 

[Vic]

There's something very wrong with the idea that mere sight of a black man at one's doorstep can be considered some kind of justification to use lethal force in "self-defense."
Andrew Lester and anyone else who supports this notion are not only racist, they are un-Christian.

 

[ivwshane]

There's something very wrong with the idea that mere sight of a black man at one's doorstep can be considered some kind of justification to use lethal force in "self-defense."
Andrew Lester and anyone else who supports this notion are not only racist, they are un-Christian.

It’s our subconscious biases and it is more pronounced in those who lack experiences (cultural, racial, social, economic) outside of their “bubble” (such as their school, church, or city). Unfortunately the fix for such biases is better education, for example crt at the college level, bias training at work, or similar training/education at the k-12 level, but all of that is considered “woke” and won’t be allowed until republicans and their followers/supporters are deprogrammed.

 

[you2]

Someone cutting you off is in no way justifiable to pull out a gun.

Yea i'm not saying it is - but i am saying if you didn't have a gun in your car in the first place you would be less likely to use it

 

[you2]

"According to the police report...
"Lester stated he opened the interior door, and saw a Black male approximately six feet tall pulling on the exterior storm door handle,"
He told officers that firing his revolver "was the last thing he wanted to do", but that he was "scared to death" because of Ralph's height and his own old age."

So, according to this source and others, yes, he did say that.

These key questions remain unanswered in the Ralph Yarl shooting

As Ralph Yarl begins a long road to recovery and Andrew Lester faces the possibility of a life sentence on felony charges, Io Dodds explains what we still don’t know about the shooting

www.independent.co.uk

Well that is crappy; it will be even more crappy if a jury finds him innocent which a few legal scholars are claiming they might. A small detail like did he have his hand on the screen door might be enough to influence a verdict. The problem here is of course the laws (which continue to become further relaxed in favor of gun owners). There was a case (I think florida) where some guy was being an ass and harassing a woman in her car; her husband pushed him and he fell down so he shot him claiming he was in fear but the claim was 'stand your ground'
--

https://www.npr.org/2019/10/10/769089719/florida-man-who-shot-and-killed-a-black-man-in-parking-dispute-gets-20-years

-
He was found guilty in this case but a flip of the coin and he could have been found innocent. Police initially didn't want to charge him but after some pressure did so... anyway the problem is too many guns and too many 'shoot em if you want' laws.

 

[Muse]

"According to the police report...
"Lester stated he opened the interior door, and saw a Black male approximately six feet tall pulling on the exterior storm door handle,"
He told officers that firing his revolver "was the last thing he wanted to do", but that he was "scared to death" because of Ralph's height and his own old age."

So, according to this source and others, yes, he did say that.

These key questions remain unanswered in the Ralph Yarl shooting

As Ralph Yarl begins a long road to recovery and Andrew Lester faces the possibility of a life sentence on felony charges, Io Dodds explains what we still don’t know about the shooting

www.independent.co.uk

Your sig is killer!

Well, you know, 5'8" is the new 6'. Or is it the other way around? Yeah, I guess so. And 84 is the new 60. This is so confusing... Guns fuck up everything... I'll stop now.

 

[Muse]

Mentally stable people act in unreasonable ways all the time. Just spend 10 minutes watching drivers on any freeway.
I don't think what he did is defensible in any way, but just because someone made a terribly bad decision does not mean they have some sort of cognitive impairment.

It is the real problem with gun culture. No one is so mentally stable that they can guarantee that under no circumstance they will not make a bad decision in an unexpected situation. We all make stupid decisions occasionally when we are under stress or emotional duress. It does not even have to be about the situation. When under emotional stress we can make poor choices about completely unrelated issues. When you mix that with a lethal weapon and at least some of the time you get something disastrous.

A good argument to remove guns from the equation. Since humans are incapable of not using them to disastrous effect, they should eschew them. It they refuse to do that, take them away from them. Some will kick and scream, "over my dead body." Emotional 3 year-olds.

I agree. That is why I say that nobody is emotionally mature enough to own a gun. Everyone occasionally makes terrible decisions when under emotional distress. EVERYONE.

Yup.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Well that is crappy; it will be even more crappy if a jury finds him innocent which a few legal scholars are claiming they might. A small detail like did he have his hand on the screen door might be enough to influence a verdict. The problem here is of course the laws (which continue to become further relaxed in favor of gun owners). There was a case (I think florida) where some guy was being an ass and harassing a woman in her car; her husband pushed him and he fell down so he shot him claiming he was in fear but the claim was 'stand your ground'
--

https://www.npr.org/2019/10/10/769089719/florida-man-who-shot-and-killed-a-black-man-in-parking-dispute-gets-20-years

-
He was found guilty in this case but a flip of the coin and he could have been found innocent. Police initially didn't want to charge him but after some pressure did so... anyway the problem is too many guns and too many 'shoot em if you want' laws.

You ever knock on a screen door? It's hard as shit to get someone's attention inside the house unless you open it and knock on the actual door. I'd hang the jury before letting that shitbird off.

 

[HomerJS]

Damning assessment coming from the shooter's grandson. He should have seen to it his gun was taken from him

MSN

www.msn.com

The corrosive effects of Fox News

Lemon asked him why he is speaking out against his grandfather.

“It’s the right thing to do,” he said. “In this country, it happens over and over again where people get away with killing unarmed innocent black people, and I would have had the same energy for any other case like I’ve had over and over again in this country.”

Asked if he believes his grandfather is racist, Ludwig answered, “I believe he holds racist tendencies and beliefs.” He went on to say “He’s just a stock American Christian male. It’s an older, you know, that’s just how they are. It’s the conspiracies and weird, random, racist things they say, and it doesn’t make sense, but they’re just scared.”

Lemon asked Ludwig to elaborate further on his generalization, leading to Ludwig commenting about Lester being attuned to racism because of Fox News.

I feel like a lot of people of that generation are caught up in this 24 hour news cycle of fear and paranoia perpetuated by some other news stations. And he was fully into that, sitting and watching Fox News all day, every day blaring in his living room. And I think that stuff really kind of reinforces this negative view of minority groups and leads people to be all — that doesn’t necessarily lead people to be racist, but it reinforces and galvanizes racist people. And their beliefs.

Klint continued to say that his grandfather bought into conspiracy theories like QAnon, and their relationship became strained over the years. He also continued to insist that his grandfather would make racist comments in front of him that he tried to push back upon.

 

[MrSquished]

Damning assessment coming from the shooter's grandson. He should have seen to it his gun was taken from him

MSN

www.msn.com

You mean this guy was racist? I'm shocked I tell you, totally shocked!

 

[ivwshane]

You mean this guy was racist? I'm shocked I tell you, totally shocked!

He probably wasn’t racist but it appears he was indoctrinated by Fox News, which is pretty close to meaning he’s racist.

 

[HomerJS]

You mean this guy was racist? I'm shocked I tell you, totally shocked!

You and I are not shocked but there is a cadre of racist deniers who will NEVER be convinced. Even by the shooters own grandson. Remember we were educated racism ended in 1923.

 

[MrSquished]

He probably wasn’t racist but it appears he was indoctrinated by Fox News, which is pretty close to meaning he’s racist.

You don't think an 85 year old white guy in the deep south has a chance to be racist? i got a bridge to sell you. Fox News just reinforces their beliefs. I'm 47 and grew up in North Jersey, and my family was completely progressive, never heard a single racist thing out of them. But I have implicit bias as well.

 

[brycejones]

You don't think an 85 year old white guy in the deep south has a chance to be racist? i got a bridge to sell you. Fox News just reinforces their beliefs

I think that's the first time I've heard KC MO described as the deep south.

 

[emperus]

The problem is these stand your ground laws combined with the availability of guns. What happened here is nuts. And even by the conversation on this topic, we seem to have gotten numb to it.