Bicyclists have started doing a new thing that makes me furious

[BikeJunkie]

And cue the 'buh buh buh but we only do it because it's safer'

And what justification did I use?

(it's on my clipboard )

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Rofl at the back pedaling and excuses.

 

[Ns1]

You are, really. You're trying to play the "everyone is evil, can't paint everyone with the same brush" card. I see a car run a red once in a blue moon. Last time was a couple weeks ago in capitol hill (part of Seattle.) I laid on the horn and they got the idea after that. I see cyclists who can't decide if they're a car, ped or a moo cow on a weekly basis.

What about all the other goddamn laws they break? It's like you guys expect cyclists to follow the law 100% of the fucking time when you don't do the same thing yourself (in your car)

 

[BikeJunkie]

Rofl at the back pedaling and excuses.

Backpedaled from where to where? Oh, and:

And what justification did I use?

 

[Brainonska511]

You are, really. You're trying to play the "everyone is evil, can't paint everyone with the same brush" card. I see a car run a red once in a blue moon. Last time was a couple weeks ago in capitol hill (part of Seattle.) I laid on the horn and they got the idea after that. I see cyclists who can't decide if they're a car, ped or a moo cow on a weekly basis.

To counter your anecdotal evidence, I present mine: I see a car run a red light near my apartment at least 3 to 4 times per week. And then there is the rampant speeding on NYC streets. It's only a matter of time until someone is run over on that stretch of road.

I've seen plenty of articles as of late about drivers jumping curbs and mowing down pedestrians on the sidewalk. Those pedestrians... they don't belong on the sidewalk.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Quote me or STFU

What is this, a peer reviewed academic journal and you're the 'blind' reviewer? Ask SA what his views are on the evolutionary differences between blacks and whites.

Rofl at the back pedaling and excuses.

I see what you did there.

 

[Ns1]

I've seen plenty of articles as of late about drivers jumping curbs and mowing down pedestrians on the sidewalk. Those pedestrians... they don't belong on the sidewalk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-DWsMtuyKI#t=40

 

[serpretetsky]

Denmark IIRC has a good design for cars and bicycles on main roads. You have car traffic, then parking spots, then the bike lane. So parked cars act as a protective buffer for cyclists while separating them from vehicular traffic.

It is too dangerous for cars and bikes to share the same lanes on main roads. I agree though that cyclists should bare the brunt of building these lanes. Through licensing and plating of bikes using them. Drivers (at least in Ontario) statistically bare 90% of the cost of road maintenance. The rest comes from the general revenue pot. It wouldn't kill cyclists to have to cough up some extra dough to maintain safe and proper bike lanes. I don't think it's unreasonable. Though there are many out there that do. Yes, bikes create less wear and tear on the pavement than cars do. However, the lanes still need to be built, cleared of debris, and ploughed in the winter. That doesn't exactly come free of charge.

As for the sense of entitlement they have. I see this a lot downtown. Running lights, riding on the sidewalk, etc. That kind of behaviour is the cyclist equivalent of the motorbike world's squid. It's really surprising that more of them don't get hit and killed.

I think I'd be willing to pay about $100 for better bike lanes.

I try to bicycle when I can, and in most cases I try to stick to the bicycle lane. When there is no bicycle lane it irritates me when my brother bicycles with me and he's not as far right as he could be. But I don't say anything, because I'm the one riding in the gutter with dirt, nails, and weird little obstacles. Hard to say which is worse.

Most of my irritations come from car drivers trying to be "nice" to bicyclists. I haven't really had any bad experiences with people being deliberately being mean to bicyclists.

For example:
I notice many cars will wait at stop signs for me to cross even though i clearly arrived WAY later to the intersection (anticipating that i will just run the stop sign, or being nice, im not sure). I get to the intersection and am waiting for them to cross and they signal me to go. It's a waste of time.

Sometimes a car is in front of me and needs to turn right. Instead of occupying the bicycle lane and turning right like they should, they stop, still completely in their lane, with a big enough gap for me to go through, as if though they are "letting" me pass. I almost NEVER pass on the right of a car, I just can't be sure they actually see me or if they're just doing something stupid. So now I have to attempt to go around the left side of this car thats in the middle of the lane waiting to turn right, or most of the time i just completely stop and wait for the car to turn right. Had the car just occupied the right lane and turned, at best It would be so fast that I wouldn't have to do anything. Usually I brake a little bit. At worst I check behind me and carefully pass the car on the left if there's no traffic or wait.

I also used to be really irritated by people stopped at a traffic light waiting to turn right but that don't occupy the bicycle lane AND don't have a turning signal on. This way, if im coming up to the intersection and the light turns green they smash right into me since they don't see me and I have no idea that they are turning right. But I've gotten less iritated by this one. My brother convinced me that I should really slow down at interesections with red lights that have just turned green and I've also started deliberely placing myself between cars so that the car behind me clearly sees me and the i can brake quick enough if the car in front decides to suddenly turn right.

These are all pretty mild irritation in the big scheme of things though.

 

[Ns1]

text

many of your problems can be solved by taking the lane when you are legally allowed to.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

They do that because ciclists tend to be completely unpredictable. You sound like a responsible rider, but many seem to be looking for an opportunity to have a light accident and create an example.

 

[serpretetsky]

many of your problems can be solved by taking the lane when you are legally allowed to.

when are you legally not allowed to take a lane?

 

[serpretetsky]

They do that because ciclists tend to be completely unpredictable. You sound like a responsible rider, but many seem to be looking for an opportunity to have a light accident and create an example.

Yeah maybe, I cringe everytime im with someone bicycling and they decide to turn left on a red light because he can't be bothered to wait for the red light even though he just arrived at the intersection.

There are certain intersections where I will do this as well, but ONLY when there is not a single car in sight and i KNOW this light will not turn green for me no matter how long i wait.

 

[Schfifty Five]

Rofl at the back pedaling and excuses.

Nice play on words.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

when are you legally not allowed to take a lane?

When you impede the regular flow of traffic.

 

[serpretetsky]

When you impede the regular flow of traffic.

I see, in that case i can fix the "cars turning right at intersection and dont see me" problem by taking a lane since everyone is slow at the point anyways. It's almost what i do now anyways.

 

[Ns1]

when are you legally not allowed to take a lane?

I said many, not all =P

 

[RampantAndroid]

And you are cherry picking your traffic violations. How about speeding? Rolling stops? Illegal turns? You see cars do these things all the time, but no, you'd like to talk about red lights. Cars speed more than cyclists for the same reasons cyclists run red lights more than cars: opportunity. And for the intellectually impaired among us, this is a justification for neither

What about all the other goddamn laws they break? It's like you guys expect cyclists to follow the law 100% of the fucking time when you don't do the same thing yourself (in your car)

I don't think you (BikeJunkie) were in the thread earlier. I'll rail on cars doing under the limit (I did earlier, IIRC), turning without signalling (something I see regularly here), running stops/reds and so forth. I won't however rail on rolling stops, doing over the limit and whatnot until they somehow cause congestion, or endanger the property and/or lives of others. People doing 10 over on a limited access highway I encourage. Hell, Redmond PD encouraged it on King5 news a few years ago. If someone does a rolling stop when it was clear no one was coming, who cares. When someone does a rolling stop and puts others in risk, then I'll care about them too.

This isn't simple black and white - and I have not said it is. What I've said is that I'd prefer a world where cyclists had to pay for tabs on their bikes being used on sidewalks/roads/maintained trails (maybe exempt youths from this), and frankly would prefer a system other than cyclists on the side of the road - if there's a bike lane, you must be in it. If there's no bike lane, you're on the sidewalk and must obey walk/don't walk signs and pedestrians get right of way over you. If there's no bike lane or sidewalk, you must not be on that road using a bicycle.

I say this as someone who LOVED biking everywhere as a kid. I'd go miles every weekend. And on roads that weren't safe for me to do it on. But I had brains enough to get off the road when a car was coming. I can say with confidence I *NEVER* caused backup. I NEVER used up a whole lane. I NEVER ran a red, NEVER ran down a pedestrian and I NEVER ended up in a right hook situation. I was aware of my surroundings.

 

[Venix]

I don't think you (BikeJunkie) were in the thread earlier. I'll rail on cars doing under the limit (I did earlier, IIRC), turning without signalling (something I see regularly here), running stops/reds and so forth. I won't however rail on rolling stops, doing over the limit and whatnot until they somehow cause congestion, or endanger the property and/or lives of others. People doing 10 over on a limited access highway I encourage. Hell, Redmond PD encouraged it on King5 news a few years ago. If someone does a rolling stop when it was clear no one was coming, who cares. When someone does a rolling stop and puts others in risk, then I'll care about them too.

This isn't simple black and white - and I have not said it is. What I've said is that I'd prefer a world where cyclists had to pay for tabs on their bikes being used on sidewalks/roads/maintained trails (maybe exempt youths from this), and frankly would prefer a system other than cyclists on the side of the road - if there's a bike lane, you must be in it. If there's no bike lane, you're on the sidewalk and must obey walk/don't walk signs and pedestrians get right of way over you. If there's no bike lane or sidewalk, you must not be on that road using a bicycle.

I say this as someone who LOVED biking everywhere as a kid. I'd go miles every weekend. And on roads that weren't safe for me to do it on. But I had brains enough to get off the road when a car was coming. I can say with confidence I *NEVER* caused backup. I NEVER used up a whole lane. I NEVER ran a red, NEVER ran down a pedestrian and I NEVER ended up in a right hook situation. I was aware of my surroundings.

Where do you see bicycles causing backups in the area? I've seen guys riding on fast, high traffic roads with tiny shoulders like 202 and 203, but I've never seen them cause any measurable impact to traffic. I just drive around them and wonder why they chose such a dangerous route.

The only traffic problems I've encountered in and around Seattle are due to motor vehicles. And that's been the case everywhere I've lived (Northeast, South, and Northwest) and driven.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

I see, in that case i can fix the "cars turning right at intersection and dont see me" problem by taking a lane since everyone is slow at the point anyways. It's almost what i do now anyways.

The smart move is to get off of your bike and walk across the intersection as a pedestrian and then return to your bike when you have crossed. But if you can do whatever it is you just said without impeding the regular flow of traffic then that's fine.

 

[Ns1]

The smart move is to get off of your bike and walk across the intersection as a pedestrian and then return to your bike when you have crossed. But if you can do whatever it is you just said without impeding the regular flow of traffic then that's fine.

Negative ghost rider. That is not smart.

 

[BikeJunkie]

Most of my irritations come from car drivers trying to be "nice" to bicyclists. I haven't really had any bad experiences with people being deliberately being mean to bicyclists.

Ditto and ditto. For all the tough talk in this thread, cyclists and motorists get along pretty damn well in my area - and we have almost zero bike lanes.

Like you said, the only congestion I see and hear about is when cars don't treat cyclists as equals, often in the form of unnecessary and even dangerous "courtesies." While I appreciate their good intentions when they wave me through the intersection, all would be just fine and much more predictable if they would follow normal traffic rules.

Again, it's an awareness problem.

 

[BikeJunkie]

The smart move is to get off of your bike and walk across the intersection as a pedestrian and then return to your bike when you have crossed. But if you can do whatever it is you just said without impeding the regular flow of traffic then that's fine.

No, it's not the "smart move." Terrible advice.

 

[SlushySolid]

Honestly I'm primarily just trying to calm you down before you have a heart attack in front of the keyboard and are unable to add to the discussion. I would prefer to move on to another topic other than "it's not illegal so it's ok!" rather than spend time trying to placate your craziness.

But BikeJunkie gets exercise by riding around on his bike. Aren't you more at risk of having a heart attack?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Negative ghost rider. That is not smart.

These last 20 or so posts are a perfect example of why we need specific licensing along with tests to ride bicycles on the road.

If bicyclists want equal treatment then they need to be treated like motorcyclists.. Complete with a special class requirement added to your driver's license.

Every road going bicycle needs a license plate. Both for taxes and enforcement so that if they choose to go around breaking every law they happen to disagree with it can be appropriately dealt with.

I would be ok with having one bike plate that can be transferred to different bikes, but any bike on a road divided by double yellow needs to have a plate which is tied to the licensed rider. This allows kids to ride in neighborhoods and other low density streets, and keeps any unlicensed bike off the high traffic road unless they have a license and plate, and pay their due taxes.

 

[Capt Caveman]

I know SA will love this but in my city, one of the busier roads in the city is being redone. three lanes to two lanes, widened sidewalks and a raised bike lane. Makes the city more walkable and biker friendly.