Berlin terrorist suspect caught-dead update

[OutHouse]

so will this attack get Merkel to tighten up germany and its refugee problem? the German people are getting fed up with all the violence.

 

[kage69]

Poverty can be a cause too, sure, but it's hardly the only one (and I doubt it's a major one at all where Western nations are concerned).

Oh no, I never meant to insinuate I thought it was the only cause, just the strongest. You don't think there is a connection with poverty and violent crime in Western countries? We are talking about violence ultimately, right? Have you ever been to Mexico or South America?

Poor Buddhist and Hindu regions don't commit terrorism nearly at the same rate Abrahamic religions do.

That's true. Speaking of Abrahamic religions, what happened to Ireland's Troubles once fewer people were unemployed and destitute? That's what I'm talking about.

Further, terrorism is largely sponsored by the wealthy and educated (e.g. Osama bin Laden), and often carried out by middle-class individuals (e.g. the many engineers and scientists involved with 9/11). The poor are usually content to plug away with whatever little they have because that's all they know, whereas those that have achieved social consciousness and are capable of evaluating the world according to their own experiences (an uncomfortable mixture of Western degeneracy and Islamic ideals, both fed to them by the puppet-masters) feel they are capable of making a radical change in the world. It's all about maintaining or expanding power.

I agree that Indonesia is a great example of stable, non-terroristic practitioners of Islam. It has also been relatively shielded from foreign intervention.

Can't argue with any of that, particularly your keen wording of intervention there at the end. That place is far from homogeneous.

 

[master_shake_]

so will this attack get Merkel to tighten up germany and its refugee problem? the German people are getting fed up with all the violence.

not a fucking chance.

but she will bullshit her way in to another election win.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...ermany-tougher-asylum-smugglers-Mediterranean

don't think her views won't change if she wins again.

 

[kage69]

So why is your definition of a scientifically unprovable skyfairy belief right and ISIS belief wrong?

We've been over this too.

The burden of proof is on the claimant. Also, I don't need a Bronze age mythology to tell me what ISIS is doing is barbaric. Please get your head out of your ass.

 

[kage69]

If you think about it, Islam is very much a nationality, kind of like "American." Muhammad was a state-builder who set down laws for people. Jesus in contrast was a dissident against a powerful state.

Many muslims feel that way. I used to notice an uptick in that sentiment around the haj.
Jesus was also the latest version of a cultural mechanism.

Liberals tend to get suckered by Muslims playing the victim. Well, guess what. Muhammad in his first period was a nice guy playing victim and collecting every little slight and perceived disrespect. Then one day he went out and killed all of his enemies.

Is that supposed to mean something in an age of Obama killing Osama bin Laden while so many Republicans act suckered by Russians playing the victim?

 

[desura]

Oh no, I never meant to insinuate I thought it was the only cause, just the strongest. You don't think there is a connection with poverty and violent crime in Western countries? We are talking about violence ultimately, right? Have you ever been to Mexico or South America?



That's true. Speaking of Abrahamic religions, what happened to Ireland's Troubles once fewer people were unemployed and destitute? That's what I'm talking about.



Can't argue with any of that, particularly your keen wording of intervention there at the end. That place is far from homogeneous.

Regarding the IRA, they displayed a much greater degree of morality than the Islamic groups do.

As in, when IRA bombs did kill innocent civilians, they denied killing them, then made excuses. This at least means that they accepted the premise that killing civilians is unacceptable.

Islamic groups make pronouncements proudly proclaiming their culpability in killing innocent civilians. Huge difference.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Oh no, I never meant to insinuate I thought it was the only cause, just the strongest. You don't think there is a connection with poverty and violent crime in Western countries? We are talking about violence ultimately, right? Have you ever been to Mexico or South America?

That's true. Speaking of Abrahamic religions, what happened to Ireland's Troubles once fewer people were unemployed and destitute? That's what I'm talking about.

Can't argue with any of that, particularly your keen wording of intervention there at the end. That place is far from homogeneous.

I'd at least say ideological violence specifically. Latin America is screwed because of our war on drugs, not general poverty. Bolivia and Uruguay are far removed from the drug trade, and despite having the weakest and most rural economies below our borders, also have considerably lower crime than cocaine-land Colombia.

What particularly with regards to Ireland? I've always known it primarily as a political issue, and a quick Google is telling me that they've had a fairly steady economy since their official freedom from the UK, and that they actually had much higher levels of unemployment in the 80s when the bombings had already been well underway, and where the terrorism was likely the cause of economic turmoil.

Regarding the IRA, they displayed a much greater degree of morality than the Islamic groups do.

As in, when IRA bombs did kill innocent civilians, they denied killing them, then made excuses. This at least means that they accepted the premise that killing civilians is unacceptable.

Islamic groups make pronouncements proudly proclaiming their culpability in killing innocent civilians. Huge difference.

If that's true I'd say that made them (the IRA) more cowardly and theoretically dangerous actually. A person that does horrible action X, with the disclaimer that they are doing it in response to action Y, is providing a simple negotiation: we'll stop X if you stop Y. How do you even deal with a group that kills civilians just to scare people?

 

[agent00f]

The firearms I own primary point of existence is to hurl lead at mostly non-living targets I enjoy shooting at - the living targets are hunted ethically in that rare occasion I do it in...and that's true probably for the vast majority of firearm owners. It is only a secondary benefit that they're available almost immediately to defend my life/property. It's like...Lefties can't grasp simple concepts either. Now, back to continuing the Lefty mindset:

Man these Assault Trucks that can carry more than 10 square feet of cargo! We need to allow them to only be driven at "common sense" speeds! If only the suppressor on these Assault Vehicles didn't make them so quiet, people wouldn't be hurt! And again with the scary black paint job: Why must they be black?! Black makes these Assault Trucks more scary (zomg)! If the steering wheel on these Assault Trucks could be re-designed to not make them so ergonomic, and thus less useful to the user, maybe that would stop them being so lethal?! OMG we need additional regulations for driving these!

The funny thing is you're not actually this stupid even if you have to play the part of fantasizing about killing brownies to justify a hobby.

 

[agent00f]

Regarding the IRA, they displayed a much greater degree of morality than the Islamic groups do.

As in, when IRA bombs did kill innocent civilians, they denied killing them, then made excuses. This at least means that they accepted the premise that killing civilians is unacceptable.

Islamic groups make pronouncements proudly proclaiming their culpability in killing innocent civilians. Huge difference.

Islamic groups are really small fry compared to american conservatives who boast about killing brownies to justify their white welfare. Speaking of which, time to sound the alarms and funnel more money to the rural "defense" industry.

 

[bshole]

Looks like it was a "refugee"...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...as-market-Berlin-leaving-two-people-dead.html

Merkel must be so proud.

Looks like there may be more on the way...

The harrowing incident also comes amid repeated warnings from various security agencies that ISIS planned to wreak havoc on European countries during the festive season, specifically threatening Christmas markets.

 

[desura]

If that's true I'd say that made them (the IRA) more cowardly and theoretically dangerous actually. A person that does horrible action X, with the disclaimer that they are doing it in response to action Y, is providing a simple negotiation: we'll stop X if you stop Y. How do you even deal with a group that kills civilians just to scare people?

Uh, no. The IRA's position always was that all of Ireland should be united. ISIS's position is that the West should leave them alone as they worked to create a caliphate in Syria and Iraq.

The IRA and similar groups would often do things like bomb empty buildings after work hours. So they would in fact have plausible deniability if and when the bomb ended up killing innocent civilians. Because they acted like maliciously killing civilians would be delegitimizing, which is more than can be said about Islam, generally.

 

[desura]

Islamic groups are really small fry compared to american conservatives who boast about killing brownies to justify their white welfare. Speaking of which, time to sound the alarms and funnel more money to the rural "defense" industry.

Islamic groups are distinct due to their fanaticism and their willingness to inflict severe and malicious civilian casualties. They have a troubling mixture of religious resolve and moral depravity. What equally bad IMO is the tendency of Muslims and their sympathizers to deny or equivocate, rather than digging deep into the doctrines and weeding out harmful interpretations. I think that this is likely because Islam itself is so certain that for there to be new revelations, like what we see with the Mormons, it would essentially become a different religion all together.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Uh, no. The IRA's position always was that all of Ireland should be united. ISIS's position is that the West should leave them alone as they worked to create a caliphate in Syria and Iraq.

The IRA and similar groups would often do things like bomb empty buildings after work hours. So they would in fact have plausible deniability if and when the bomb ended up killing innocent civilians. Because they acted like maliciously killing civilians would be delegitimizing, which is more than can be said about Islam, generally.

They killed over 2000 people. That's a lot of accidentally occupied buildings.

 

[desura]

They killed over 2000 people. That's a lot of accidentally occupied buildings.

The IRA was responsible for more deaths than any other organisation during the Troubles.[166] Two detailed studies of deaths in the Troubles, the Conflict Archive on the Internet (CAIN), and the book Lost Lives,[167] differ slightly on the numbers killed by the IRA and the total number of conflict deaths. According to CAIN, the IRA was responsible for at least 1,707 deaths, about 48% of the total conflict deaths.[168] Of these, at least 1,009 (about 59%) were members or former members of the British security forces, while at least 508 (about 29%) were civilians

This is small potatoes compared to Islamic terrorism. 9-11 alone...outweighs 30 years of IRA activism.

 

[Blue_Max]

We've been over this. Many, many times. ISIS != Islam.

So what is it that ISIS is doing that's not in their 'holy' books?

Would you say 'just christianity at work again' when an alter boy gets raped, or a Dr who provides abortions is assassinated?

Show me the new testament bible verses that instruct its followers to do those things.

...and you might want to consider the frequency of the offenses you mentioned.
Deaths at the hands of some islamic groups, in the millions.
Altar boys raped in the last 100 years... generously guessing in the thousands?
Abortion doctors killed? Around 20 in total since Planned Parenthood's very inception.

The number of offenses should be a consideration.

It's not really a difficult concept.

There's that lefty dig to distract from the issue and hurl an insult at your opponent in hopes it'll stick and you won't ever have to actually answer the question.

 

[alien42]

Awful. Religion of peace strikes again....

Yeah, it is probably Islam at work again. GOod times...

Religion of peace

meanwhile, this also happened today - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/19/three-injured-in-gun-attack-on-zurich-mosque

i wonder what religion of peace was behind that attack?

these tragedies are awful, especially so when religiously motivated, no matter what the religion.

 

[MrSquished]

Islamic groups are distinct due to their fanaticism and their willingness to inflict severe and malicious civilian casualties. They have a troubling mixture of religious resolve and moral depravity. What equally bad IMO is the tendency of Muslims and their sympathizers to deny or equivocate, rather than digging deep into the doctrines and weeding out harmful interpretations. I think that this is likely because Islam itself is so certain that for there to be new revelations, like what we see with the Mormons, it would essentially become a different religion all together.

I despise ISIS as the worst, followed by Al Qaeda. They are on another level. And I hope we take them down. I do believe we are on the right side of things in regards to those cretins.

But let's put things into historical context. What is worse? Or what is this much worse than the other. The attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed at least 200,000 civilians. In almost one fell swoop. Greatest targeted civilian attack in human history. That was a mere 70 years ago. In the interim, as the worlds beacon of democracy, of which many ways we are, we have supported coups of governments and support of dictatorships that brutalized their people. This happened mostly in South/Central America and the Middle East. How do you feel those incursions looked from the OTHER side? We probably were like woowoo GO 'MURICA, I don't think they were cheering so much.

We have also had our share of wars like Vietnam and Iraq. 500 THOUSAND dead in an Iraqi war that was avoidable. I could post links and stats to both of those and everything in between but why bother. Drone strikes to this day kill civilians. Do I feel some of these strikes are necessary. Sure I do. But every action has a reaction, so it's time to learn about those.

And nuclear weapons? Well I can't even count the amount of times I've heard right-wing chickenhawks suggest we just bomb the middle east and turn it into a parking lot. And I bet that a decent amount would end up being ok with it. But luckily our leadership has been sane. Until now that is.

And Trump has suggested he would be fine with actually targeting civilians - that is what level he is on. Anyway I am sure many of the civilian deaths were 'collateral' damage but does that make it magically ok? We are supposed to be the leaders in justice, but our militaristic behavior says otherwise. Civilians are a casualty of war sometimes but the ways you wage war, and for why, make differences to real lives. Do you think a family in Afghanistan who had half their family wiped out by a US drone is going to now be on our side? No they are going to hate us more and more. And so the cycle continues.

Fuck radical Islam, but take a look at what some of modern Western Christian doctrine has done as well.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

meanwhile, this also happened today - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/19/three-injured-in-gun-attack-on-zurich-mosque

i wonder what religion of peace was behind that attack?

these tragedies are awful, especially so when religiously motivated, no matter what the religion.

My bet would be a different Islamic sect, but that is just a guess. Why don't we all keep an eye on this incident and see?

 

[agent00f]

Islamic groups are distinct due to their fanaticism and their willingness to inflict severe and malicious civilian casualties. They have a troubling mixture of religious resolve and moral depravity. What equally bad IMO is the tendency of Muslims and their sympathizers to deny or equivocate, rather than digging deep into the doctrines and weeding out harmful interpretations. I think that this is likely because Islam itself is so certain that for there to be new revelations, like what we see with the Mormons, it would essentially become a different religion all together.

White power.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

White power.

What an idiot.

 

[agent00f]

What an idiot.

Would you say you identify more with him or any of them brownies?

 

[rudder]

That's the thing many "Islam is to blame" types like to ignore, really. It's not that Islamic extremism isn't a problem, it's that there are numerous factors that create it -- and the religion by itself is usually low on the ladder or irrelevant. Poverty drives people to join groups like ISIS because they see it as their best shot at a better life. Conflicting factions matter, too. ISIS is Sunni, so it's a way for disaffected Sunnis in Iraq to exact revenge on the Shi'a camp, which kicked many Sunnis out of power when Hussein fell. There's also crass opportunism, the apocalypse cult nature of the group... ISIS, at least, is not the natural product of Islam, it's a product of economic and political tensions that have lasted for decades.

Both of you are wrong about the poverty thing. I grew up in the poorest country in Asia. Just so happens that after 400 years of Spanish rule, the majority of the population are Catholic. When i was there the only group bombing and killing were the communists. And have you heard about all the terrorist cells coming from West Virginia coal country? No, me either. Poverty does not make someone an extremist.

Look at a lot of these people leaving the west to join ISIS. Are they poor and unemployed? No, many are educated and not impoverished.

These people are just easily manipulated. By following radical Islam and wreaking havoc they believe this will bring them closer to Allah as supposed to a comfortable existence going to school and having a decent job.

 

[OutHouse]

i wonder what religion of peace was behind that attack?

i dunno, can you tell me? did the guy scream JESUS BE PRAISED?

 

[agent00f]

Both of you are wrong about the poverty thing. I grew up in the poorest country in Asia. Just so happens that after 400 years of Spanish rule, the majority of the population are Catholic. When i was there the only group bombing and killing were the communists. And have you heard about all the terrorist cells coming from West Virginia coal country? No, me either. Poverty does not make someone an extremist.

Look at a lot of these people leaving the west to join ISIS. Are they poor and unemployed? No, many are educated and not impoverished.

These people are just easily manipulated. By following radical Islam and wreaking havoc they believe this will bring them closer to Allah as supposed to a comfortable existence going to school and having a decent job.

Wow, just like their american counterparts in the uneducated religious right all riled up about killing brownies to fund their "defense" welfare. Except they call themselves Real Americans instead of terrorists, because people as white as jesus are good.

 

[Zaap]

Would you say you identify more with him or any of them brownies?

Which moderator's sockpuppet is this?

Others get called out for far less racist shit than this fake. It's long past obvious.