Berlin terrorist suspect caught-dead update

[Zaap]

If you ever actually listen to Muslim "denunciations" they usually coach them with with equivocating clauses, like saying, "we denounce all terrorism" which is another way of saying that the West terrorizes their societies as well, which just feeds into the grievances of the terrorists to begin with.

They also are into conspiracy theories which casts the blame on other people. In short, the Muslims never truly show remorse for what happens. It doesn't take long for them to bring up everything from the Crusades to Tim McVeigh to Westboro Baptist to put the other guy on defense.

True in cases but clearly not all cases. Its unfair to state this like its all Muslims or even a majority. Plenty despise the terrorists. People tend to forget (and fall into the trap that's mainly pushed by western leftists) that Muslims all resent the west and the US because that's their big bogeyman now and always.

Plenty of Muslims, I assure you, are under no illusion that the main targets of radical Islam are... themselves. Other Muslims.

Its silly to make the mistake our own useful idiots make: that every Muslim must be too stupid to know the terrorists target them mostly, and that western nations- though often tangled up in wars in Muslim countries- aren't really waging any war against them as the terrorists actually are, and don't deliberately target innocents as the terrorists do.

Plenty of Muslims are perfectly logical about that and despise those that give their faith a bad name as much as anyone. They deserve credit, even if they aren't always out in the spotlight because it doesn't fit someone's useful idiot narrative.

 

[Zaap]

Damn the guy they detained yesterday was just released. Had nothing to do with the incident. Attacker is still at large.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/20/europe/berlin-christmas-market-truck/index.html?adkey=bn

Heaven forbid we get facts first!

(Not directed at you, but just a perfect illustration of my first post in this thread.. that I wish there could be a 48 hour waiting period to incidents like this.)

 

[desura]

"The Muslims." Really, most of them? You've checked?

It's patently obvious that you're not actually going on evidence, just assumptions, stereotypes and fear. Besides, if you really believe that the very act of being Muslim makes someone a heartless monster, what's your proposed solution?

This is based on experience. This comes from watching Mehdi Hassan debate and others. I've actually engaged with Muslims on the topic, and I don't rely on PC platitudes like you.

My proposed solution is simple: we stop being involved with their affairs. We reduce contact as much as possible, and this includes immigration. Give it a cool-down period, then after twenty years or so we can increase contact again.

 

[desura]

True in cases but clearly not all cases. Its unfair to state this like its all Muslims or even a majority. Plenty despise the terrorists. People tend to forget (and fall into the trap that's mainly pushed by western leftists) that Muslims all resent the west and the US because that's their big bogeyman now and always.

Plenty of Muslims, I assure you, are under no illusion that the main targets of radical Islam are... themselves. Other Muslims.

Its silly to make the mistake our own useful idiots make: that every Muslim must be too stupid to know the terrorists target them mostly, and that western nations- though often tangled up in wars in Muslim countries- aren't really waging any war against them as the terrorists actually are, and don't deliberately target innocents as the terrorists do.

Plenty of Muslims are perfectly logical about that and despise those that give their faith a bad name as much as anyone. They deserve credit, even if they aren't always out in the spotlight because it doesn't fit someone's useful idiot narrative.

Well, no. If it were just a case of the extremists killing other muslims, we wouldn't have a problem. Internal civil wars are not our problem.

The problem is that it is a case of the extremists killing people who are not Muslim and doing so overseas in a flagrant provocative terrorist attack, like we saw in Boston, Paris, OSU, Chatanooga, the list goes on and on.

If you talk to a Muslim, odds are that if you talk about Palestine, he will become very passionate and there is pretty much a zero chance he will be sympathetic to Israel. The extremists are often acting on the soft preferences of the majority.

 

[Zaap]

If you talk to a Muslim, odds are that if you talk about Palestine, he will become very passionate and there is pretty much a zero chance he will be sympathetic to Israel. The extremists are often acting on the soft preferences of the majority.

You use the term 'a Muslim' in such a stereotype 'hive mind ' way... similar to how many on the left reffer to 'blacks' or 'hispanics' or whoever. Like they are the same person just cloned over and over.

Muslim faith or decent doesn't automatically make everyone less of an individual.

Anecdotally speaking, I know people of Middle Eastern heritage, non-Isrealis, Muslim and otherwise: some the subject of Israel I don't agree with... but in no cases do any of them -despite their position on Israel- support terrorists or condone terrorist actions. Not against the west, not against Isreali civilians and not against Muslims.

I personally wouldn't put up with anyone who was a terrorist supporter. You need to meet a broader range of people because what you're saying has nothing to do automatically with anyone's religion, heritage or ethinic background.

I've met some Muslims who are like you describe... western-hating (despite living here) and excuse making for terrorists. But then, I've met plenty of useful idiot Americans who were exactly the same way. In either case it wasn't due to their religion or race or anything else. It was just a matter of individuals are individuals. Some are logical... some are complete morons.

It's foolish to think someone can't be both logical and Muslim.

 

[fskimospy]

This is based on experience. This comes from watching Mehdi Hassan debate and others. I've actually engaged with Muslims on the topic, and I don't rely on PC platitudes like you.

So you watched a guy on TV and then supposedly walked around town talking to Muslims? lol.

Your opinions on Russia and now Muslims are incredibly entertaining to me I have to say, this stuff is gold.

My proposed solution is simple: we stop being involved with their affairs. We reduce contact as much as possible, and this includes immigration. Give it a cool-down period, then after twenty years or so we can increase contact again.

Yes I'm sure an immigration ban for Muslims followed by several decades of pretending not to see them is just what the doctor ordered for making Muslims like America more.

 

[Commodus]

This is based on experience. This comes from watching Mehdi Hassan debate and others. I've actually engaged with Muslims on the topic, and I don't rely on PC platitudes like you.

My proposed solution is simple: we stop being involved with their affairs. We reduce contact as much as possible, and this includes immigration. Give it a cool-down period, then after twenty years or so we can increase contact again.

I'm also operating on experience. Hey, it turns out that, like any other religion, Islam has a wide range of opinions and can't be neatly stereotyped or dismissed based on anecdotal evidence! Who knew?

I'm not sure that cutting contact as much as possible would be best. Let's say you're a Muslim family living in the US. Do you want to be almost entirely cut off from your family on the other side of the world, with no visits in either direction? What if there's a humanitarian crisis (like, say, Syria) where a lot of innocent people genuinely need help? How about legal Muslim residents of other countries who want to emigrate to the US? I know what you're getting at, but to me it sounds like there are so many necessary exceptions that, in practice, little would change.

 

[desura]

I'm also operating on experience. Hey, it turns out that, like any other religion, Islam has a wide range of opinions and can't be neatly stereotyped or dismissed based on anecdotal evidence! Who knew?

I'm not sure that cutting contact as much as possible would be best. Let's say you're a Muslim family living in the US. Do you want to be almost entirely cut off from your family on the other side of the world, with no visits in either direction? What if there's a humanitarian crisis (like, say, Syria) where a lot of innocent people genuinely need help? How about legal Muslim residents of other countries who want to emigrate to the US? I know what you're getting at, but to me it sounds like there are so many necessary exceptions that, in practice, little would change.

I'll just say that by and large, Muslims are more hostile to the West and are more prone to committing acts of mass violence than just about any other cultural group out there. EG: we never see Hindu or Chinese terrorism in America and Europe, even though both have their grievances against the West.

Yes, you occasionally have exceptions, but by and large...the proof is simply in the prevalence of Islamic attacks and the attitude taken by the mainstream of Muslims. So to your Islamic family not being able to bring over more family members from Pakistan? Great. Force them to assimilate that way. RE: Syria, that is a regional problem, not our problem. There is plenty of space in Saudi Arabia's empty quarter, within Iran, etc to put the refugees.

 

[desura]

You use the term 'a Muslim' in such a stereotype 'hive mind ' way... similar to how many on the left reffer to 'blacks' or 'hispanics' or whoever. Like they are the same person just cloned over and over.

Muslim faith or decent doesn't automatically make everyone less of an individual.

Anecdotally speaking, I know people of Middle Eastern heritage, non-Isrealis, Muslim and otherwise: some the subject of Israel I don't agree with... but in no cases do any of them -despite their position on Israel- support terrorists or condone terrorist actions. Not against the west, not against Isreali civilians and not against Muslims.

I personally wouldn't put up with anyone who was a terrorist supporter. You need to meet a broader range of people because what you're saying has nothing to do automatically with anyone's religion, heritage or ethinic background.

I've met some Muslims who are like you describe... western-hating (despite living here) and excuse making for terrorists. But then, I've met plenty of useful idiot Americans who were exactly the same way. In either case it wasn't due to their religion or race or anything else. It was just a matter of individuals are individuals. Some are logical... some are complete morons.

It's foolish to think someone can't be both logical and Muslim.

No, individuals operate within a broader cultural framework. The Muslim framework makes people more prone to excuse-making and terrorism sympathizing than other frameworks. You'll always meet exceptions, but overall, there will be more problems with Muslims than for example, Hindus.

 

[bshole]

Yes I'm sure an immigration ban for Muslims followed by several decades of pretending not to see them is just what the doctor ordered for making Muslims like America more.

It is working for Japan. When was the last time there an Islamic attack in Japan? Is Japan hated by the Middle East? It literally has NONE of the problems associated with engagement in the Middle East that the rest of Western civilization has.

 

[rudder]

Wow, just like their american counterparts in the uneducated religious right all riled up about killing brownies to fund their "defense" welfare. Except they call themselves Real Americans instead of terrorists, because people as white as jesus are good.

Not quite sure what point you are trying to make. Per my statement the country I grew up in was filled with "brownies." Since you brought up that racist term... I feel like I have to use it or you would not understand.

 

[Blue_Max]

It is working for Japan. When was the last time there an Islamic attack in Japan? Is Japan hated by the Middle East? It literally has NONE of the problems associated with engagement in the Middle East that the rest of Western civilization has.

...and it makes me wonder where are all our lefties screaming about how "racist" Japan (etc) is, and how they just need multiculturalism to be more gooder-er.

 

[Sunburn74]

I'm also operating on experience. Hey, it turns out that, like any other religion, Islam has a wide range of opinions and can't be neatly stereotyped or dismissed based on anecdotal evidence! Who knew?

This!

Imagine if all white guys were judged by corrupt hedge fund guys who steal billions from investors and defraud the people and government. Pretty much the only people doing that are white guys. Yet where is the backlash against whites? Where is the white registry and the immigration restriction against old white men?


Oh I see. You understand old white men being greedy and power hungry. You sympathize with them. You almost want to be them. But you don't understand young muslim guys being angry about political strife and living in constant poverty under dictators.

I don't condone terrorism, but honestly most terrorism is is 95% political in nature and 5% religious in nature. The religion portion only gets added as the cherry on top for extra rage!

 

[Amused]

It is working for Japan. When was the last time there an Islamic attack in Japan? Is Japan hated by the Middle East? It literally has NONE of the problems associated with engagement in the Middle East that the rest of Western civilization has.

Sigh

http://www.snopes.com/muslims-in-japan/

 

[Blue_Max]

Sigh

http://www.snopes.com/muslims-in-japan/

*double sigh*
http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/16/s...-checker-employs-leftists-almost-exclusively/

Snopes, Which Will Be Fact-Checking For Facebook, Employs Leftists Almost Exclusively

 

[Victorian Gray]

How come no muslim or group comes out and denounces these (many many) terror attacks? Not a peep from the muslim world. It's like they condone this stuff.

Why do you feel that you have to lie about something like this?

 

[fskimospy]

*double sigh*
http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/16/s...-checker-employs-leftists-almost-exclusively/

Snopes, Which Will Be Fact-Checking For Facebook, Employs Leftists Almost Exclusively

lol, ultra biased right wing website attacks fact checkers for imagined bias. You can't make this shit up.

Has anyone else noticed that the ultra right has basically declared every single nonpartisan fact checking organization that exists part of the liberal media conspiracy?

 

[Blue_Max]

lol, ultra biased right wing website attacks fact checkers for imagined bias. You can't make this shit up.

Has anyone else noticed that the ultra right has basically declared every single nonpartisan fact checking organization that exists part of the liberal media conspiracy?

Better confirm that on Jezebel and Huffington to be sure...

 

[Victorian Gray]

lol, ultra biased right wing website attacks fact checkers for imagined bias. You can't make this shit up.

Has anyone else noticed that the ultra right has basically declared every single nonpartisan fact checking organization that exists part of the liberal media conspiracy?

Google the word Lügenpresse and it's history/use.

 

[fskimospy]

Better confirm that on Jezebel and Huffington to be sure...

I rarely visit those sites so I wouldn't know. I just find it funny that you're linking to hilariously biased ultra right wing websites in order to try and complain about somewhere else's imagined bias. Not the sharpest knife, haha.

 

[Blue_Max]

I rarely visit those sites so I wouldn't know. I just find it funny that you're linking to hilariously biased ultra right wing websites in order to try and complain about somewhere else's imagined bias. Not the sharpest knife, haha.

It doesn't take much to find out for yourself. A glance at the articles of each writer will tell you their stance, their political views, their motivation. Snopes' false "FALSE"-es are becoming very well known in all spheres, not just the non-progressives you call "righties".

 

[fskimospy]

It doesn't take much to find out for yourself. A glance at the articles of each writer will tell you their stance, their political views, their motivation. Snopes' false "FALSE"-es are becoming very well known in all spheres, not just the non-progressives you call "righties".

Haha, whatever you need to tell yourself. You do realize that the things you repeat to yourselves in the right wing media bubble are just that... right wing self-reinforcement, right?

Snopes is highly regarded across the political spectrum and it has been for many, many years. There's a reason Facebook chose it, and it's because of its credibility. Now is when I imagine you say that the reason Facebook chose Snopes is because they're part of the anti-conservative conspiracy too. And on and on it goes...

double sigh indeed.

 

[desura]

Snopes says Japan has roughly 100k Muslims. Japan has 127 million people, so 100k is 0.08% of the total population.

That is negligible, and explains why they have so few problems.

France OTOH has 7.7 million muslims at about 11% of the entire population. Humongous difference.

While Japan officially does not restrict Muslim immigration, in practice...anyone who is not Japanese has a hard time gaining residency and citizenship. For crying out loud, they discriminate against Koreans, who IMO are extremely similar to Japanese. If there were a large influx of Muslims to Japan, say 10 million, you bet there would be a huge negative response.

 

[MrSquished]

People tend to forget (and fall into the trap that's mainly pushed by western leftists) that Muslims all resent the west and the US because that's their big bogeyman now and always.

You live in an alternate universe or something. This is yet another asinine statement. The rolls are flipped actually. It's the right that vilifies Muslims as a cohesive group and the left that is accused of coddling them. This holds true in most of Western Europe as well as the United States.

I really want some of what you are smoking. Sheesh.

 

[Amused]

*double sigh*
http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/16/s...-checker-employs-leftists-almost-exclusively/

Snopes, Which Will Be Fact-Checking For Facebook, Employs Leftists Almost Exclusively

Snopes has valid sources for every fact in that rebuttal. Sorry, but a smear article from right wing rag does not negate a well sourced debunking of a myth.

Would you care to address the individual facts? Or are logical fallacies all you have?