Bare-die testing: A delidded 3770k, an H100, and 9 different TIMs

Discussion in 'CPUs and Overclocking' started by Idontcare, Nov 26, 2012.

  1. SKORPI0

    SKORPI0 Lifer

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    Whoever did that on their ASRock mobo should be ashamed. ^_^D::eek:


    Thanks for the excellent TIM "review" IDC. Looks like I'll have to get some Liquid Ultra/NT-H1. Is it possible to delid a i7 3820? I would love to reduce my temps, from what I read is about 20 degrees lower?
     
    #76 SKORPI0, Nov 28, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  2. KingFatty

    KingFatty Diamond Member

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    Could you have saved time, and/or got more consistent results, using an air-based cooler?

    I imagine the water cooler you used may introduce some unpredictability because you don't know what temperature the water is - wouldn't it start off cool, then warm up over time? So if you check the temp of the CPU too early, maybe the water isn't fully warmed up? I guess if you wait long enough you can ensure the entire water loop is fully warmed up and then check the CPU temp, but wouldn't it be very time consuming compared to just using a big air cooler that would reach operating temp much faster? Sorry I'm ignorant about how water cooling affects temp readings over time, but can't help think the water complicates things.
     
  3. Yuriman

    Yuriman Diamond Member

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    Nope, your chip is Sandy Bridge and has the IHS soldered to the die.
     
  4. Zxian

    Zxian Senior member

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    I can understand some hesitation about this point, but I'm wondering how much of an effect the residual layer after cleaning of either compound affects future TIM application performance. You've been testing hardware that's mirror smooth to begin with, but I haven't gone through the effort of lapping either my i7-3770K IHS or Megahalems cooler. In my efforts to get a sufficent amount of TIM under the heatsink, I had to re-apply IC7 a few times and have suffered from the staining on both surfaces.
     
  5. Ed1

    Ed1 Senior member

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    IDC : slightly off topic but any reason the 3.5ghz voltage(1.118v) is higher than the 3.9ghz (1.106v) and 4.2ghz (1.103v) .
    Not that it matters for test as it was used throughout with each paste .
     
  6. Ajay

    Ajay Platinum Member

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    Awesome! Thanks for all the hardwork. I hope Haswell comes with a much better DIE/IHS interface material so that I don't have to de-lid it, but at least you've given us an excellent instruction manual and good TIMs to use if need be!!
     
  7. Cerb

    Cerb Elite Member

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    IME, it seems that it can (so, +1 to others' observations on that), but not to any dangerous consequence. I've noticed rebuilt AXPs, FI, running a little cooler, after re-application. But, even with 8-10 years of use with the same application of Ceramique, they were running fine temps and all.
     
  8. Phynaz

    Phynaz Diamond Member

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    Question - how thick is the top of the die? Could you lap it to clean it up?
     
  9. Yuriman

    Yuriman Diamond Member

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    It has been done in the past (Athlon XP days), but I personally wouldn't dream of trying it on Ivy Bridge. I doubt the liquid metal stuck to the die will do anything to hurt temps.
     
  10. supremor

    supremor Senior member

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    As always IDC, your threads never fail to deliver. Having read this I'm going to pick up a tube of NT-H1 for my 3770k (not delidded).
     
  11. hokies83

    hokies83 Senior member

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    LOL you going to try remounting with Liquid ultra your temps are way to high with it..

    i used Liquid pro and my temps are lowwer then urs and im using 1.55v..

    i installed the liquid ultra right .. u would have seen 10 c less then what u have there.
     
  12. ArchAngel777

    ArchAngel777 Diamond Member

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    English please? Surely, he did something wrong if his results differ from yours, right? I love your anecdotal reasoning.
     
  13. hokies83

    hokies83 Senior member

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    dbl post.
     
    #88 hokies83, Nov 29, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2012
  14. hokies83

    hokies83 Senior member

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    ok bro i had surgery yester day and im doing this with 1 hand on pain killers with IV in my arms..

    if u check back and look when he used liquid ultra he used 4 = 5x to much..

    so i made picture for him to see how much to use.


    i used 1/4 to cover the entire ihs then he used on the tiny die.

    because he said he has never used it... so i tried to help...

    he pretty much did this with the liquid ultra.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Look how much he used on the die..
    look at how much i used on a ihs... now look and the clean non runny no puddle app
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Also the de lid club on ocn we all use liqud pro/ultra on the die and everybodys temps are much better because they put it on right.

    i just want him to get the correct results is all.
     
    #89 hokies83, Nov 29, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2012
  15. ArchAngel777

    ArchAngel777 Diamond Member

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    Unless I am completely dense, I think it was clear that IDC was making a joke with that obviously huge amount of paste. However, provided enough pressure were applied, even that amount would most likely be just fine (have you ever seen companies apply that stuff? They are way more liberal...) as it would shoot out the sides naturally.

    Anyway, IDC made a point that having too little is worse than having too much, because too much just gets push off the sides and the end result is similar. In other words, error on the side of too much as opposed to too little and obviously apply some common sense to it.

    But regarding your response directly, I have to believe that you misread what IDC has written. Perhaps those drugs from your surgery have you a bit loopy and caused you to misread or misunderstand the information he posted in this thread.

    With that said, I am not opposed to him retesting with your suggestion - I have my doubts that we will see any real difference, but I am always anxious to learn. Also keep in mind that mounting on the die is different than mounting on the IHS. There is a much more surface area on the IHS and because of this, it is actually is easier to get 'too much' as it would require more pressure overall to push it out the sides.
     
    #90 ArchAngel777, Nov 29, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2012
  16. thescreensavers

    thescreensavers Diamond Member

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    Very nice thread. I am actually learned something new today which I am very happy about which is the Pump out Effect.

    I been Using AS5 ever since it came out. On my AMD Turion MT40 with an exposed die I kept having temp issues with it with AS5, after a bit temps would sour. I thought I had a bad batch of AS5.

    Not to mention I too sometimes get the watery AS5 that you pictured. I think it has something to do with moisture in the tube. I always sqeeze it out until it comes out less watery and more normal like.

    I just got a new laptop with an i7 3630 so I might want to look into a different TIM that does not suffer from the pump out effect.
     
    #91 thescreensavers, Nov 29, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
  17. hokies83

    hokies83 Senior member

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    I have a de lidded 3770k i run 5.2ghz with 1.55v and my temps are lower then his by 5 = 8c. and he is only using 1.38v

    As have 30 others and alot used to much liquid ultra and had poor temp drops..
    after re seating with correct amount of tim they gained up 15c more temp drop.

    Ive seen it alot and know
    idc
    used the correct amount could drop another 10c.
     
  18. GPz1100

    GPz1100 Senior member

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    @hokies83, Unless you're using the same identical cooler/AIO product as he is, it's an apples/oranges comparison.
     
  19. thujone

    thujone Golden Member

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    i'm calling scam on this thread... this was actually just clever marketing for digital calipers :p
     
  20. hokies83

    hokies83 Senior member

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    im using an h100 just like him.
     
  21. thilanliyan

    thilanliyan Diamond Member

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    ^Do you have the same ambient temperatures as he does?
     
  22. hokies83

    hokies83 Senior member

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  23. Gillbot

    Gillbot Lifer

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    Ranks up there with the best and great performance/cost.... It's my "go to" TIM!
    :thumbsup:

    Same here, that's another reason why I use ceramique. I know i'll probably swap the CPU out before it needs replaced anyway. :biggrin:
     
  24. Sunny129

    Sunny129 Diamond Member

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    another vote for IDC to retest the Liquid Ultra with the reduced quantity on the die, just for sh!ts and giggles...
     
  25. Yuriman

    Yuriman Diamond Member

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    IDC's results don't look unreasonable to me. Not all chips are made equal. My chip needs about 1.250v to hit 4.5ghz and (with a different waterblock) I run about 76c with similar ambient temperatures. It's lower, of course, if I take my measurement on the first run of IBT but I prefer to let it run for 10 minutes or so and let water temps stabilize.

    I'm in the 60's now but ambient temperatures have dropped below IDC's.