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Bare-die testing: A delidded 3770k, an H100, and 9 different TIMs

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EliteRetard said:
This is what you don't want:
Features_Thermal-Paste-System-Builder.jpg
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Whoever did that on their ASRock mobo should be ashamed. ^_^D:😱


Thanks for the excellent TIM "review" IDC. Looks like I'll have to get some Liquid Ultra/NT-H1. Is it possible to delid a i7 3820? I would love to reduce my temps, from what I read is about 20 degrees lower?
 
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Could you have saved time, and/or got more consistent results, using an air-based cooler?

I imagine the water cooler you used may introduce some unpredictability because you don't know what temperature the water is - wouldn't it start off cool, then warm up over time? So if you check the temp of the CPU too early, maybe the water isn't fully warmed up? I guess if you wait long enough you can ensure the entire water loop is fully warmed up and then check the CPU temp, but wouldn't it be very time consuming compared to just using a big air cooler that would reach operating temp much faster? Sorry I'm ignorant about how water cooling affects temp readings over time, but can't help think the water complicates things.
 
Idontcare said:
That said, I personally feel the upside more than outweighs the downside and would not hesitate to use either IC Diamond or Liquid Ultra on my H100 or CPUs again.
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I can understand some hesitation about this point, but I'm wondering how much of an effect the residual layer after cleaning of either compound affects future TIM application performance. You've been testing hardware that's mirror smooth to begin with, but I haven't gone through the effort of lapping either my i7-3770K IHS or Megahalems cooler. In my efforts to get a sufficent amount of TIM under the heatsink, I had to re-apply IC7 a few times and have suffered from the staining on both surfaces.
 
IDC : slightly off topic but any reason the 3.5ghz voltage(1.118v) is higher than the 3.9ghz (1.106v) and 4.2ghz (1.103v) .
Not that it matters for test as it was used throughout with each paste .
 
Idontcare said:
Pulling all the results from the nine different TIMs together, we arrive at the following table:

MasterChartforbare-dieTIMtesting.png
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Awesome! Thanks for all the hardwork. I hope Haswell comes with a much better DIE/IHS interface material so that I don't have to de-lid it, but at least you've given us an excellent instruction manual and good TIMs to use if need be!!
 
Idontcare said:
Actually it spreads out so well that I'm concerned that with long-term use this TIM might suffer the same "pump-out effect" that AS5 is noted to suffer from in this same application.
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IME, it seems that it can (so, +1 to others' observations on that), but not to any dangerous consequence. I've noticed rebuilt AXPs, FI, running a little cooler, after re-application. But, even with 8-10 years of use with the same application of Ceramique, they were running fine temps and all.
 
Phynaz said:
Question - how thick is the top of the die? Could you lap it to clean it up?
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It has been done in the past (Athlon XP days), but I personally wouldn't dream of trying it on Ivy Bridge. I doubt the liquid metal stuck to the die will do anything to hurt temps.
 
As always IDC, your threads never fail to deliver. Having read this I'm going to pick up a tube of NT-H1 for my 3770k (not delidded).
 
LOL you going to try remounting with Liquid ultra your temps are way to high with it..

i used Liquid pro and my temps are lowwer then urs and im using 1.55v..

i installed the liquid ultra right .. u would have seen 10 c less then what u have there.
 
hokies83 said:
LOL you going to try remounting with Liquid ultra your temps are way to high with it..

i used Liquid pro and my temps are lowwer then urs and im using 1.55v..

i installed the liquid ultra right .. u would have seen 10 c less then what u have there.
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English please? Surely, he did something wrong if his results differ from yours, right? I love your anecdotal reasoning.
 
ArchAngel777 said:
English please? Surely, he did something wrong if his results differ from yours, right? I love your anecdotal reasoning.
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ok bro i had surgery yester day and im doing this with 1 hand on pain killers with IV in my arms..

if u check back and look when he used liquid ultra he used 4 = 5x to much..

so i made picture for him to see how much to use.


i used 1/4 to cover the entire ihs then he used on the tiny die.

because he said he has never used it... so i tried to help...

he pretty much did this with the liquid ultra.
NT-H1ridiculousamountpre-mountdieshot.jpg

LiquidUltrapostbrushing.jpg


Look how much he used on the die..
look at how much i used on a ihs... now look and the clean non runny no puddle app
SAM_1296.jpg

SAM_1298.jpg


Also the de lid club on ocn we all use liqud pro/ultra on the die and everybodys temps are much better because they put it on right.

i just want him to get the correct results is all.
 
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Unless I am completely dense, I think it was clear that IDC was making a joke with that obviously huge amount of paste. However, provided enough pressure were applied, even that amount would most likely be just fine (have you ever seen companies apply that stuff? They are way more liberal...) as it would shoot out the sides naturally.

Anyway, IDC made a point that having too little is worse than having too much, because too much just gets push off the sides and the end result is similar. In other words, error on the side of too much as opposed to too little and obviously apply some common sense to it.

But regarding your response directly, I have to believe that you misread what IDC has written. Perhaps those drugs from your surgery have you a bit loopy and caused you to misread or misunderstand the information he posted in this thread.

With that said, I am not opposed to him retesting with your suggestion - I have my doubts that we will see any real difference, but I am always anxious to learn. Also keep in mind that mounting on the die is different than mounting on the IHS. There is a much more surface area on the IHS and because of this, it is actually is easier to get 'too much' as it would require more pressure overall to push it out the sides.
 
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Very nice thread. I am actually learned something new today which I am very happy about which is the Pump out Effect.

I been Using AS5 ever since it came out. On my AMD Turion MT40 with an exposed die I kept having temp issues with it with AS5, after a bit temps would sour. I thought I had a bad batch of AS5.

Not to mention I too sometimes get the watery AS5 that you pictured. I think it has something to do with moisture in the tube. I always sqeeze it out until it comes out less watery and more normal like.

I just got a new laptop with an i7 3630 so I might want to look into a different TIM that does not suffer from the pump out effect.
 
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I have a de lidded 3770k i run 5.2ghz with 1.55v and my temps are lower then his by 5 = 8c. and he is only using 1.38v

As have 30 others and alot used to much liquid ultra and had poor temp drops..
after re seating with correct amount of tim they gained up 15c more temp drop.

Ive seen it alot and know
idc
used the correct amount could drop another 10c.
 
@hokies83, Unless you're using the same identical cooler/AIO product as he is, it's an apples/oranges comparison.
 
Denithor said:
Pretty much the same experience here. Been (quite happily) using Ceramique since it first launched and have been through quite a few tubes over the years. I have seen the same thing - gradual climb in temps after about 1-1.5 years mounted. This pump out phenomenon happens, but it is definitely not a fast thing, certainly not something that should stop you from using for relatively long-term periods of time on bare die. It doesn't just stop working suddenly one day, you just notice that your load temps start to gradually increase and take that as a reminder to reapply at that time.

Nice to see how well Ceramique holds up against the best out there - exactly on par with ICD and only a few degrees below the absolute best. I'll just stick with it for now.

Thanks for the work, awesome read!
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Ranks up there with the best and great performance/cost.... It's my "go to" TIM!
Zap said:
:hmm: I rarely go over a year without upgrading something (better HSF, faster CPU, replacing entire system) and often much sooner. I'm not a "build once, use five years" kind of guy. 😛 Guess I won't worry about pump-out effects.



:thumbsup:

I like my women as I like my TIM. Cheap, reasonable performance and easy to use. :biggrin:
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:thumbsup:

Same here, that's another reason why I use ceramique. I know i'll probably swap the CPU out before it needs replaced anyway. :biggrin:
 
another vote for IDC to retest the Liquid Ultra with the reduced quantity on the die, just for sh!ts and giggles...
 
IDC's results don't look unreasonable to me. Not all chips are made equal. My chip needs about 1.250v to hit 4.5ghz and (with a different waterblock) I run about 76c with similar ambient temperatures. It's lower, of course, if I take my measurement on the first run of IBT but I prefer to let it run for 10 minutes or so and let water temps stabilize.

I'm in the 60's now but ambient temperatures have dropped below IDC's.
 
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