• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

[Ashraf] 10nm "Lakefield" SoC with Intel big + little cores

Page 8 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
101,404
5,421
126
Intel Lakefield and Samsung Galaxy Book S is official!

According to one news it'll be available in late June.

Some are also saying Intel will reveal the full details soon(computerbase.de said it was supposed to be this week).

LTE is available, but only for certain regions.
8% larger screen than a surface pro and comes in about 4 ounces lighter (SP+type cover). wonder what the price and battery life are like?
 

piokos

Senior member
Nov 2, 2018
554
203
86
If with that question you would like to know what's the percentage of display + battery there, yes i do, that's why i think intel efforts are DOA.
No, seriously. Check how motherboards look. Before you write another comment like that "smarphones have near 6 inch, there's lot's of space there".
Samsung S10:
1590785514935.png
 

RetroZombie

Senior member
Nov 5, 2019
464
385
96
No, seriously. Check how motherboards look. Before you write another comment like that "smarphones have near 6 inch, there's lot's of space there".
In my past posts i explained why intel is DOA, in that exact same space the other competitors (arm) put higher specs chips for lower prices and more 'mobile friendly'.

Intel only advantage is microsoft windows for the ones who really wants and needs windows.

Maybe intel will surprise i don't know, but if the 'first' product isn't up to the already existent arm stuff forget about future versions.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
9,321
1,875
136
I was not asking about on-board memory. I was asking about on-die memory.
I think it is on package. The logic board is pretty small. I think it would have been a competitive product if it was manufactured on a functional node.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,484
2,260
136
Anandtech is listing 8GB memory in the device. Does that include the integrated memory?

what is the size of integrated memory? 4GB?
There's no distinction here. In laptops they can have all the memory soldered on the motherboard, or have all of them in an upgradeable slot, or have one soldered and the other in a slot.

Lakefield uses the approach in Smartphone/Tablet chips where the DRAM is stacked on top of the CPU package. In order for them to offer a part with different memory configuration, they'll have to ask Intel for another chip that stacks different DRAM configuration.
 

piokos

Senior member
Nov 2, 2018
554
203
86
Lakefield uses the approach in Smartphone/Tablet chips where the DRAM is stacked on top of the CPU package.
Exactly, although I'd probably not use the word "stacked" since it's confusing here. Foveros is "stacked" semiconductor fabrication - a single package.
PoP RAM is a separate package just put on top of Foveros ("Package-on-Package").
I guess the word "glued" would be better but it also has some use already (and not very positive ;)).

Essentially, 3D packaging brings a lot of performance and power saving potential.
POP RAM basically saves some motherboard space. :)

But, I'm not sure if putting RAM in Foveros makes any sense (or even: is possible).
Either way, Intel doesn't make RAM, so they'd have to order something very specific for this design. PoP memory dies can be easily outsourced from the standard offer.
In order for them to offer a part with different memory configuration, they'll have to ask Intel for another chip that stacks different DRAM configuration.
I guess 8GB is the sweet spot for this segment anyway, so this is probably what OEMs ordered. It's not a high-performance part, so more RAM would be mostly wasted.
Windows is relatively frugal when it comes to hardware and MS constantly tries to slim it even further. Totally opposite to what's happening with Android.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,484
2,260
136
I guess 8GB is the sweet spot for this segment anyway, so this is probably what OEMs ordered. It's not a high-performance part, so more RAM would be mostly wasted.
I know Lakefield has a 4GB and a 8GB variant. I wouldn't be surprised if 8GB is the maximum it can have. The diminutive package size is a limiter. It's pretty much the size of a single LPDDR4X package.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,484
2,260
136

up to 24% better performance per SOC power3 and up to 12% faster single-threaded integer compute-intensive application performance4.
More than 2x throughput on Intel UHD for AI-enhanced workloads
Up to 1.7x better graphics performance
Dual-Channel LPDDR4X-4266(that is, total of 64-bit width).

*Compared to Amberlake 8500Y

They have a very entertaining video with Lakefield built using Legos. I kinda want that. :D

Also,
The first Intel processors to feature native dual internal display pipes, making them ideally suited for foldable and dual-screen PCs.
That explains the announced products.
 

piokos

Senior member
Nov 2, 2018
554
203
86
Officially announced. Only an i3 and an i5. The i5 is up to 3 Ghz and SDP of 7W. IGP frequency is only up to 500 Mhz, hah.

Not bad at all. But not everything is filled yet.

I wouldn't worry too much about GPU frequency. It's still more than what the desktop stuff runs in Windows. These chips are probably not suitable for gaming anyway.
There's actually a significant upgrade: it works with 4 screens (used to be 3 - even in Ice Lake). That's probably forced by dual-screen folding devices, but let's hope this goes to other future chips as well.

Full virtualization, fast RAM.

Negatives:
- no AVX2,
- no Optane support
 

RetroZombie

Senior member
Nov 5, 2019
464
385
96
It even ends up being worst than i expected and i had my expectations very low.

And many limits imposed:
- No AVX1, AVX2 support in 2020?​
- Max 8GB ram?​
- Many important security features missing?​

Any old arm cpu will eat this at breakfast.

What a complete disappointment, if this ends up cheap ok, if not it will not sell and end into the 200$ 10inch laptops.
 

piokos

Senior member
Nov 2, 2018
554
203
86
9.5W PL2. That's really low. 8500Y devices can reach 18W in PL2.
Well, the big Sunny Cove core is probably the only one that can seriously boost (it makes sense since it'll be doing most of the work in heavy loads). I haven't seen frequency figures for the Tremont cores (anyone?).
That's why the PL2 is relatively low.
No AVX you mean, SSE only. That was known for some time. Also no HT on the big core.
You're obviously right. It can't have AVX.
It even ends up being worst than i expected and i had my expectations very low.
So you felt the urge to jump on an Intel product in yet another thread...
And many limits imposed:
- No AVX1, AVX2 support in 2020?
Like on all Atom-based CPUs.
- Max 8GB ram?
For now, yes.
Any old arm cpu will eat this at breakfast.
No. But we've been over this.
 

piokos

Senior member
Nov 2, 2018
554
203
86
Do we know the prices yet? I can imagine these are for very cheap entry level devices.
OEM-only, so even if there was an MSRP given, it would not mean anything.

Actually it's for fairly high-end mobile devices.
Samsung Book S launches at $999.
AFAIK Lenovo X1 Fold (the flagship for Windows 10X launch) will launch around $2500.

In the future: probably a decent choice for MacBook Air (unless this whole lineup moves to ARM).
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
3,134
946
136
8 GB is fine for Lakefield which is targeted for very small and thin fanless devices, this is not a workstation. If someone needs more RAM Lakefield is not your thing. Not long ago (or up until now) 8 GB was the standard in notebooks, most of the ICL-U notebooks have 8 GB of RAM.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,484
2,260
136
In the future: probably a decent choice for MacBook Air (unless this whole lineup moves to ARM).
This is dead. Probably why recent Macbooks are so subpar. Make the previous generation subpar, and the next generation looks even better.

Well, the big Sunny Cove core is probably the only one that can seriously boost (it makes sense since it'll be doing most of the work in heavy loads). I haven't seen frequency figures for the Tremont cores (anyone?).
Multi-threaded Turbo is 1.8GHz for the L16G7.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY