[Ashraf] 10nm "Lakefield" SoC with Intel big + little cores

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Roland00Address

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Dec 17, 2008
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Grumbles on how I wish there were two Sunny Cove cores here. This may not actually create any improvements but it sure would make me feel better. With such a small chip adding a 2nd big core just seems reasonable to my mind.

Yes I know I am prejudging hardware I have not seen the performance yet. Sue me 🤣, I just felt bitten by atom over the last 10 years, and now we finally got an atom that will not stink, but at the same time the world has such delicious arm chips now a days I just want at least 2 big cores when we are going to be talking hardware that costs at least $500, and more likely to be $750+ or maybe even a $1000+ (all the foldable stuff.)
 

IntelUser2000

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Oct 14, 2003
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Grumbles on how I wish there were two Sunny Cove cores here. This may not actually create any improvements but it sure would make me feel better. With such a small chip adding a 2nd big core just seems reasonable to my mind.
Space is quite tight, so second Sunny Cove will likely not fit there, in addition to making TDP shoot up.

The whole package is only 144mm2(12mm x 12mm). At 82mm2 it means each side is roughly 9mm, or only 3mm to play around. Other chips with PoP memory have a far greater package to die size ratio.
 

Roland00Address

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Dec 17, 2008
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Space is quite tight, so second Sunny Cove will likely not fit there, in addition to making TDP shoot up.

The whole package is only 144mm2(12mm x 12mm). At 82mm2 it means each side is roughly 9mm, or only 3mm to play around. Other chips with PoP memory have a far greater package to die size ratio.
I understand the logic, but I am not sure it will be enough.

Sigh I just hope intel delivers but I am skeptical of them finding the golden mixture after the last 5 years of meh on the big cores and much longer than that on their small cores. (There 22nm baytrail atoms of 2013 were not that bad but the stuff before and after the 2013 time were flat out disappointing.)

Sorry if all I am saying is just feelings and hunches and not "data" and "facts" to back up my fears and intuitions. I am only being honest here with what I feel inside.
 

RetroZombie

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Nov 5, 2019
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With such a small chip adding a 2nd big core just seems reasonable to my mind.
That's why it will obsolete the day it will be put on sale.

The whole package is only 144mm2(12mm x 12mm).
Why the importance of the size of the package this days?
Even smarphones have near 6 inch, there's lot's of space there, not to mention in tables or phones where the product is supposed to go.

This days the Z height is much more important.
 

bullzz

Senior member
Jul 12, 2013
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Why the importance of the size of the package this days?
size of package equals cost. if intel has to compete with qualcomm (this is qualcomm's segment), it needs more cores in a small area. atom is the only way they can achieve that.
 

RetroZombie

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Nov 5, 2019
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it needs more cores in a small area. atom is the only way they can achieve that.
But that is the size of the chip or the die if you prefer not the package.
The total board size could be important if the devices were space constrained, but that's not the case either.
 
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jpiniero

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Oct 1, 2010
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Roland00Address

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Dec 17, 2008
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Lakefield is a lot less interesting if it's not going to have different form factors and just be better battery life.
 

IntelUser2000

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Lakefield is a lot less interesting if it's not going to have different form factors and just be better battery life.
There's no reason they can't do the fancy dual screen form factors but honestly I think they are going to tank in the market. They'll either raise the prices too high, or lower battery life too much, or both.

It should still enable being used in devices that can't fit Core. Thinking super compact laptops like this one and tablets under 10-inch size.

But at this point its quite late. It's almost literally being sent as WoA alternative.

According to Samsung's site, the L16G7 chip used has 3GHz boost. That's a lot lower than expected.
 

IntelUser2000

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Oct 14, 2003
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The refresh is supposed to be available then.
I don't know how to explain this to you. In desktops when chips are available, you can build systems on it on Day 1. In laptops you can not, because firmware/driver/thermal optimizations have to be put into place. So the chips are available months before actual laptops are sold to consumers.

This is even more true in case of Smartphones and Tablets, where every milliwatt counts. In fact, for most Smartphones its so custom built that you often cannot install one version of the OS to the other.

Since Intel claimed chips were available nearly a year ago, its an extremely long time even considering that. I assume if it was a much higher volume chip they can reduce this time significantly.

But its what it is.
 
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jpiniero

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Oct 1, 2010
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I don't know how to explain this to you. In desktops when chips are available, you can build systems on it on Day 1. In laptops you can not, because firmware/driver/thermal optimizations have to be put into place. So the chips are available months before actual laptops are sold to consumers.
That's what engineering samples are for. I'm talking about putting into mass production, Q1 21 was when the Refresh was scheduled to be available.
 

Roland00Address

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Dec 17, 2008
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There's no reason they can't do the fancy dual screen form factors but honestly I think they are going to tank in the market. They'll either raise the prices too high, or lower battery life too much, or both.
Yes technology wise there is nothing stopping dual screen form factors. But from an economic standpoint everything is less certain. We are going to have a recession in the short term more severe than any other in the last 35 years. (It may be better in a year or two after the virus is no longer a problem, but even then it is likely going to be years to reach 2019 numbers, much like it took years for total output to be similar to 2008 prior of the crash.)

Some goods people are willing to try new things when they feel secure. Other goods people say I rather have the tried and true thing when the world is uncertain. I forsee dual screen form factors to be a device where peoples buying habits will be shaped by their feelings outside of the literal question at hand. Sorry but that is life.
 

IntelUser2000

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Oct 14, 2003
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@Roland00Address There are reliability issues that'll never be solved with folding screens, and both folding/dual screens raise cost. Foldables even more so, as the X1 Fold is supposed to cost $2500 and up, which is likely related to being an ultra low volume production part and new tech. I have serious doubts on this.

At that price point and being a PC, I don't think they can do Lakefield in any practical sense. Absolute performance requirements demands having Tigerlake in there.

Maybe that's the real reason Lakefield is taking so long to come out. The advantages are super low thermal envelope and battery life. But the best case scenario suggests CPU/GPU pretty much equal to i5 Whiskeylake 15W. Not sure how many will go for that.

Initially it seemed so promising.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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Intel Lakefield and Samsung Galaxy Book S is official!

According to one news it'll be available in late June.

Some are also saying Intel will reveal the full details soon(computerbase.de said it was supposed to be this week).

LTE is available, but only for certain regions.
 
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bullzz

Senior member
Jul 12, 2013
389
2
81
Intel Lakefield and Samsung Galaxy Book S is official!

According to one news it'll be available in late June.

Some are also saying Intel will reveal the full details soon(computerbase.de said it was supposed to be this week).

LTE is available, but only for certain regions.
Anandtech is listing 8GB memory in the device. Does that include the integrated memory?

what is the size of integrated memory? 4GB?
 

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