As England Turns...

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Your conditions are ridiculous.

Not for a moderate Muslim, who would want to practice their religion without law and violence behind it. Of course you?d find those conditions ridiculous.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: sandorski
Your conditions are ridiculous.

Not for a moderate Muslim, who would want to practice their religion without law and violence behind it. Of course you?d find those conditions ridiculous.

You want to turn people into Second Class Citizens, always answerable for the sins of a few half a world away. Yes, those are ridiculous conditions.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: sandorski
Your conditions are ridiculous.

Not for a moderate Muslim, who would want to practice their religion without law and violence behind it. Of course you?d find those conditions ridiculous.

You want to turn people into Second Class Citizens, always answerable for the sins of a few half a world away. Yes, those are ridiculous conditions.

To practice their religion without law and violence behind it is not ridiculous. It's the same demand you would use on Christians. This reeks of bias.

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: sandorski
Your conditions are ridiculous.

Not for a moderate Muslim, who would want to practice their religion without law and violence behind it. Of course you?d find those conditions ridiculous.

One flaw in your argument is there really is no such thing as a ?moderate? Muslim.

This is how Ayaan Hirsi Ali put in an interview with Reasononline last year;

'The Trouble Is the West'

Reason: George Bush, not the most conciliatory person in the world, has said on plenty of occasions that we are not at war with Islam.

Hirsi Ali: If the most powerful man in the West talks like that, then, without intending to, he?s making radical Muslims think they?ve already won. There is no moderate Islam. There are Muslims who are passive, who don?t all follow the rules of Islam, but there?s really only one Islam, defined as submission to the will of God. There?s nothing moderate about it.

Reason: So when even a hard-line critic of Islam such as Daniel Pipes says, ?Radical Islam is the problem, but moderate Islam is the solution,? he?s wrong?

Hirsi Ali: He?s wrong. Sorry about that.

Here is what it mean to be Muslim in that respect and like Hirsi Ali said there is nothing moderate about it;

"Jihad is holy fighting in Allah's Cause with full force of numbers
and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of
its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah's Word is made
superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and
Islam is propagated.

By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position;
their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority
vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who
tries to escape from this duty, or does not in his innermost heart
wish to fulfil this duty, dies as a hypocrite."

sources:
1. http://www.danielpipes.org /comments/59458,
2. Koran 2:190 Footnote, King Fahd Complex translation
3. page 580 of the Islamic University of Medina's translation of Sahih
al-Bukhari's Hadith; it opens Bukhari's Book of Jihad

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: Socio

Originally posted by: ericlp
Typical Americans.... Discriminating against ones religion... Remember when we ran away from the BS to start America?

Here is a repost of a quote for you you can find a link to it on one of my posts on page two of this thread.

Unfortunately, even the Westerners who perceive a danger rarely grasp its full scope. Religious war simply does not fit with their understanding of the world. While they may be able to grasp the notion of Islamic terrorism or ?Islamofascism,? it is inconceivable that Islam itself could be hostile. They assume, without questioning, that all religions are basically the same, and that all religions teach about peace and love.

Islam is not just a religion it is also a political ideology and that political ideology is used to protect the religion and the religion is used to protect political ideology and they both are used in tandem to wreak havoc.

Radical Islam (if you want--Islam) is one in a long line of threats to classical liberalism. Catholicism once posed a similar threat, with a similar ideology. Islam isn't inherently more evil than other religions, it has simply not been exposed to classical liberalism long enough to have to confront it so directly.

The major difference between Catholicism and Islam is that Catholicism has an unquestioned leader, while Islam is more splintered. This may mean it will be easier to change or more difficult than Catholicism was. If you remember, Catholicism didn't make peace with classical liberalism until Vatican II, and then only because it faced greater threats from fascism and communism and saw our ideology as the only one that would let it survive.

With this history in mind it is important to know that Islam should not be fought against if you want to "win." You cannot promote the ideology of a society with the free practice of religion while at the same time targeting one specific religion to kill. What has caused classical liberalism to succeed in the past, and what will in the future, is to continue to allow the free practice of religion and the separation of the three spheres (economic, politic, religious). When confronted with this, ideologies such as radical Islam end up killing themselves just as medieval Catholicism, fascism, mercantalism, and communism did before them.

But radical Islam is Islam and has been around for a long time and if anything it is gaining steam not losing power and nothing has not stopped it;

Islam has the world's record of genocide. Its victims, over more than
1,350 years, number in the hundreds of millions, many more than the
victims of the Holocaust and World Communism combined. Muslim genocide
is still ongoing in the Sudan, Ivory Cost. Mauritania, Somalia, the
Philippines, Indonesia, and, to a lesser extent in other Muslim
countries.

http://allaboutmuhammad.com/page15.html

We are not dealing with anything like Catholicism, fascism, mercantilism, and communism this is something terribly different.

 

[Farang]

Your claim that there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim just shows you've never met a Muslim in your life. This makes it difficult to make broad generalizations about them.

I don't care if it has killed a million more people than Catholicism, it will be defeated the same way. It, too, was around for a long time. However I get the feeling you're not interested in discussion, you didn't really respond to the points I made but instead linked to a questionable source trying to add another "fact" of your own. Just like you've done to every other response in this thread.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: ericlp
Typical Americans.... Discriminating against ones religion... Remember when we ran away from the BS to start America?

This is inanity. Americans don't discriminate against religion; they embrace the free practice of it and will even be handily manipulated to vote for somebody based on this person's perceived piety. Again, the reason you don't have 'terrorist' attacks in the US perpetrated by our native islamic population is because they are free to worship and live their lives how they wish.

As for the last statement, 'we' didn't do a damn thing. 'They' ran to the new world for many reasons, the least of which was probably religion. First and foremost would have been to avoid squalor and starvation.

 

[BMW540I6speed]

Originally posted by: Socio

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Originally posted by: piasabird
Cant wait till the muslims start sharia law and start executing gays and giving public beatings to women in what they call immodest clothing. This is what you have to look forward to. After that they wil want to close all the pubs.

How exactly do the muslims "start sharia law"? If you're talking about vigilante justice, then that problem will be met by local law enforcement. If you're talking about a voting majority seeking to change the laws, then that's another thing entirely. If that were to happen, then the population of britain would have to be predominantly hard-line muslim with elected officials consisting almost entirely of the same. You would see the same stuff in the US, but we haven't started practicing "christian law" because the hard-liners aren't in sufficient majority to institute it.

You will see predominantly hard-line Muslims with elected officials consisting almost entirely of the same in the future rest assured as soon (40-60 years) as they will be the majority in many European countries.

When it will happen in the US will depend on how the Hispanic majority deals with the Muslims. In the end though I would bet on Hispanics converting to Islam rather than fighting it, thus it will happen in the Americas as well eventually.

The communists were an international conspiracy that worked to take over the world and enslave us all. Now the Islamists are an international conspiracy that is working to take over the world and enslave us all. In between, the drug epidemic was going to enslave us all. It has less to do with an actual enemy than with a world view that defines the person by membership in a group that is itself defined and disciplined by existential threats to the group.

This psychotic brand of paranoia is even more absurd and loony than the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and 'Jews use Christian babies blood to bake their Passover matzos'. Just imagine, armadas of thousands of Islamic ships surrounding our shores and millions of heavily armed Islamic warriors defeating the US military and flooding the countryside, burning down churches, football and baseball stadiums, discotheques and bars, forcing a nation of 300 million people(and the most powerful economic and military country in the history of the world) to be pious Muslims or die.

This is collective insanity of the highest and most deranged order. The only danger of religious nature our nation faces is from the rapturistas and Armageddonistas.

I find these fears of the crazy Islamists taking over and destroying Western civilization to be quite ridiculous. Most Muslims (at least the ones I know), think these Islamists are loony and antithetical to the true ethos of Islam. What's more, most Muslim countries are decades behind Western countries in terms of technology, science, civil institutions, and literacy, so they hardly pose a threat to the Western way of life.

We are constantly being reminded and patted on the back for being the greatest, most powerful, richest, and most wonderfullest nation that has ever existed on the face of the earth, with the finest, bravest, best trained and equipped soldiers around, and yet these self-same boosters are constantly pissing their pants that we are going to be taken over by Islamists. How the hell is that going to happen?

The United States today has about 75% of the naval power on earth, most of the rest being in the hands of the British, Japanese, and French. We have about the same amount of air power, with again most of the rest being in the hands of the British, Israelis, Germans, and French. What nation, or combination of nations, is likely to come into play that would threaten the US and its closest alliance partners? And how about Russia and China? They are not friendly to Islamic radicals in any way. Or is Islam first going to sweep away the Middle Kingdom and then come gunning across the seas for us?

Who is selling the Caliphate Armies of Islamic Assumption their landing craft ? France ? Isn't there someone there we could call ?

What about the Bombers ? Will they be Saudi or will they just pick up something used from the old Aeroflot yards? Seriously, those old Soviet clunkers are a breeze to intercept . Some of them fall to the earth all on their own.

Ok, Assuming they are coming, I'm going to bet since they don't have a good Pacific Rim Contact they'll be launching from Western Coastal Shipyards in Africa and Spain , so once the Ivory Coast and Madrid fall to Osama Bin Laden and his gang, we'll really need to start worrying . Lets jump ahead in the interests of being really prepared . They send Carriers ( the US still needs carriers to "assert their will " so far from home , I can only assume the Islamic Armies will likewise need a lift .)from west African ports toward I'd bet Florida and New York ( they know the value of a two pronged attack ) and while we all know ( Ann Coulter told me ) that the New Yorkers will just drop their rifles and welcome the Green Menace ,I expect the legions of the Free Floridians ( well armed even in peace time) bolstered by the Texan Defence Forces will be able to hold the beachline and prevent a beachhead being established . At least for a few weeks.

You know , if the USA had some really good missiles , cruise or otherwise , they could likely sink a fleet coming out of the Atlantic Mists. They still have really Big Guns on the boats right ?

Shit, it just occurred to me, that's where Saddams WMD went, we all knew they were sent to Syria days before GW came to Baghdad, and now it all makes perfect sense . Those weapons will be coming Our Way sooner than you think .

How does one come to believe that the world's only military and economic super-power, with a populations of over 300 million people could literally get taken over by "terrorists" or "islamists" is beyond my powers of comprehension. But the idea that it is in any way shape of form a threat to the sovereignty of this country is, in a word - "insane"

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: sandorski
Your conditions are ridiculous.

Not for a moderate Muslim, who would want to practice their religion without law and violence behind it. Of course you?d find those conditions ridiculous.

You want to turn people into Second Class Citizens, always answerable for the sins of a few half a world away. Yes, those are ridiculous conditions.

To practice their religion without law and violence behind it is not ridiculous. It's the same demand you would use on Christians. This reeks of bias.

Wow.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
This is collective insanity of the highest and most deranged order. The only danger of religious nature our nation faces is from the rapturistas and Armageddonistas.

Nice. :thumbsup:

 

[DarkThinker]

Originally posted by: Socio

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: sandorski
Your conditions are ridiculous.

Not for a moderate Muslim, who would want to practice their religion without law and violence behind it. Of course you?d find those conditions ridiculous.

One flaw in your argument is there really is no such thing as a ?moderate? Muslim.

This is how Ayaan Hirsi Ali put in an interview with Reasononline last year;

'The Trouble Is the West'

Reason: George Bush, not the most conciliatory person in the world, has said on plenty of occasions that we are not at war with Islam.

Hirsi Ali: If the most powerful man in the West talks like that, then, without intending to, he?s making radical Muslims think they?ve already won. There is no moderate Islam. There are Muslims who are passive, who don?t all follow the rules of Islam, but there?s really only one Islam, defined as submission to the will of God. There?s nothing moderate about it.

Reason: So when even a hard-line critic of Islam such as Daniel Pipes says, ?Radical Islam is the problem, but moderate Islam is the solution,? he?s wrong?

Hirsi Ali: He?s wrong. Sorry about that.

Here is what it mean to be Muslim in that respect and like Hirsi Ali said there is nothing moderate about it;

"Jihad is holy fighting in Allah's Cause with full force of numbers
and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of
its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah's Word is made
superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and
Islam is propagated.

By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position;
their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority
vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who
tries to escape from this duty, or does not in his innermost heart
wish to fulfil this duty, dies as a hypocrite."

sources:
1. http://www.danielpipes.org /comments/59458,
2. Koran 2:190 Footnote, King Fahd Complex translation
3. page 580 of the Islamic University of Medina's translation of Sahih
al-Bukhari's Hadith; it opens Bukhari's Book of Jihad

let me give you examples of Jihad in Islam: fighting for your country....is Jihad (any country)....going to school and spending time and effort in educating yourself(on whatever it is that is beneficial) is Jihad...caring for your children is Jihad....traveling near or far to make ends meet for your family...is jihad....a patient widow that thanks her lord for all that is good and bad from him...is a widow on a jihad......

Yes Jihad is an obligatory duty on every Muslim and they are proud to take it upon them to..had you only known what it truly meant you would have spoken wiser words.

Tell me, why is it so acceptable in the west, that soldiers fleeing battle are deemed as committing the grave act of treason and therefore are traitors worthy of being hanged????????????????
Well it's because it is a big deal, you don't turn your back on your country when it needs you the most....or do you Socio?

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Originally posted by: Socio

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: sandorski
Your conditions are ridiculous.

Not for a moderate Muslim, who would want to practice their religion without law and violence behind it. Of course you?d find those conditions ridiculous.

One flaw in your argument is there really is no such thing as a ?moderate? Muslim.

This is how Ayaan Hirsi Ali put in an interview with Reasononline last year;

'The Trouble Is the West'

Reason: George Bush, not the most conciliatory person in the world, has said on plenty of occasions that we are not at war with Islam.

Hirsi Ali: If the most powerful man in the West talks like that, then, without intending to, he?s making radical Muslims think they?ve already won. There is no moderate Islam. There are Muslims who are passive, who don?t all follow the rules of Islam, but there?s really only one Islam, defined as submission to the will of God. There?s nothing moderate about it.

Reason: So when even a hard-line critic of Islam such as Daniel Pipes says, ?Radical Islam is the problem, but moderate Islam is the solution,? he?s wrong?

Hirsi Ali: He?s wrong. Sorry about that.

Here is what it mean to be Muslim in that respect and like Hirsi Ali said there is nothing moderate about it;

"Jihad is holy fighting in Allah's Cause with full force of numbers
and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of
its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah's Word is made
superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and
Islam is propagated.

By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position;
their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority
vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who
tries to escape from this duty, or does not in his innermost heart
wish to fulfil this duty, dies as a hypocrite."

sources:
1. http://www.danielpipes.org /comments/59458,
2. Koran 2:190 Footnote, King Fahd Complex translation
3. page 580 of the Islamic University of Medina's translation of Sahih
al-Bukhari's Hadith; it opens Bukhari's Book of Jihad

let me give you examples of Jihad in Islam: fighting for your country....is Jihad (any country)....going to school and spending time and effort in educating yourself(on whatever it is that is beneficial) is Jihad...caring for your children is Jihad....traveling near or far to make ends meet for your family...is jihad....a patient widow that thanks her lord for all that is good and bad from him...is a widow on a jihad......

Yes Jihad is an obligatory duty on every Muslim and they are proud to take it upon them to..had you only known what it truly meant you would have spoken wiser words.

Tell me, why is it so acceptable in the west, that soldiers fleeing battle are deemed as committing the grave act of treason and therefore are traitors worthy of being hanged????????????????
Well it's because it is a big deal, you don't turn your back on your country when it needs you the most....or do you Socio?

Jihad has been used as acts of jihad terrorism, such as the Madrid bombings, or the London bombings, the Towers in New York and I believe the Islam?s foundational texts also sanction acts of jihad martyrdom, i.e. suicide bombers which kill untold innocents and whom are held in the highest esteem for doing so. It is also used in the persecution of infidels and non believers even justifying genocides.

It also makes it very clear as to why there are no ?moderate? Muslims and very few Muslims ever speak out against such atrocities because all Jihad even the most heinous is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim.

Also from what I understand Muslims are allowed to hide their true beliefs in 2 situations:

A-In case of fearing persecution
B-In case of gaining something for Islam

Something to remember when dealing with Muslims and trying to determine if they are really peaceful or using A, or B, or both.

And yes running away from battle is a big deal, not just for turning your back on your country but for turning your back on guys to the left and right of you who are depending on you. And no I would not turn my back on my country the in fact only time I have ever turned my back on anyone was to invite a coward to strike.

 

[BMW540I6speed]

Socio said:

Jihad has been used as acts of jihad terrorism, such as the Madrid bombings, or the London bombings, the Towers in New York and I believe the Islam?s foundational texts also sanction acts of jihad martyrdom, i.e. suicide bombers which kill untold innocents and whom are held in the highest esteem for doing so. It is also used in the persecution of infidels and non believers even justifying genocides.

It also makes it very clear as to why there are no ?moderate? Muslims and very few Muslims ever speak out against such atrocities because all Jihad even the most heinous is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim.

Also from what I understand Muslims are allowed to hide their true beliefs in 2 situations:

A-In case of fearing persecution
B-In case of gaining something for Islam

Something to remember when dealing with Muslims and trying to determine if they are really peaceful or using A, or B, or both.

And yes running away from battle is a big deal, not just for turning your back on your country but for turning your back on guys to the left and right of you who are depending on you. And no I would not turn my back on my country the in fact only time I have ever turned my back on anyone was to invite a coward to strike.

The real Way it Goes When You're Trying to "Debate" with Delusional Islamophobes...

Rational People : Islamophobes have exaggerated the threat of Islamists taking over America. We have more to fear from Christian fascism, the Bush administration, and their foreign & economic policies.

Islamophobe : But wait! There's a show on my local cable station and it's in... "ARABIC". Clearly, they're coming to get us. They sell falafel at the Safeway. Barak Obama's middle name is Hussein. The Muslims are definitely ready to take over.

Rational People: Ummm...you know, this doesn't exactly explain how you think that the Muslims are about to take over.

Islamophobe : Well, explain to me exactly why we haven't declared war on Tunisia then. It's a Muslim country. If America is not practically under the thumb of Islam, then why haven't we invaded Tunisia?, Huh?, No one call explain this one, can they?

Rational People: Perhaps Tunisia hasn't done anything to America and doesn't warrant invasion.

Islamophobe: Well, talk to me when your wife and daughter is wearing a burkha and you're watching "Wheel of Torture" instead of Wheel of Fortune on television, then, which is clearly what you want. As it says in Sura #43, "We shall subjugate all the heathens and make them sing the praises of hummus." Doesn't that make it obvious what the plans are?

Rational People: It's not quite clear how the Muslims will be taking over America. Perhaps you can explain?

Islamophobe : Creeping Islam is ipso facto a fortiori, ad naseum, and anyone who doesn't recognize that is clearly has a tabula rasa conscience and no sense of national pride.

Rational People: We recognize that a small minority of Muslims are radicalized terrorists, but that does not reflect all of Islam, nor does it present the threat that you people suggest.

Islamophobe : There are laws against hate speech, but they apply to people who are muslim too. This is "clear" ergo propter hoc evidence that we are not free to speak anymore in America. If I can't say "Kill all the Muslims," then I'm not a free American, and the influence of Shar'ia is already upon us!!

Rational People : Actually, the idea of democracy is that laws should apply equally to everyone.

Islamophobe : I would expect the "liberals" & "appeasers" to say that. What about the cartoons, I ask. WHAT ABOUT THE CARTOONS? No one will answer me that one, will they.

Rational People : Uh, we've actually answered it about many times already. The failure of the American media to publish many stories of interest is certainly unfortunate, but to call out the issue of the cartoons, and claim that this shows some sort of capitulation to Islam, is facile. Especially when you fail to address the issue of the media's failure to cover issues of far greater concern to Americans, as in, the economy, Iraq, Afghanistan and so on.

Islamophobe : But WHAT ABOUT THE CARTOONS? No one is answering me. Why won't anyone answer me about the cartoons? They're obvious PROOF that Islam has taken over America!!! Why doesn't anyone see it? (Hey, someone pass me my tinfoil hat, okay?)

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
Socio said:

Jihad has been used as acts of jihad terrorism, such as the Madrid bombings, or the London bombings, the Towers in New York and I believe the Islam?s foundational texts also sanction acts of jihad martyrdom, i.e. suicide bombers which kill untold innocents and whom are held in the highest esteem for doing so. It is also used in the persecution of infidels and non believers even justifying genocides.

It also makes it very clear as to why there are no ?moderate? Muslims and very few Muslims ever speak out against such atrocities because all Jihad even the most heinous is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim.

Also from what I understand Muslims are allowed to hide their true beliefs in 2 situations:

A-In case of fearing persecution
B-In case of gaining something for Islam

Something to remember when dealing with Muslims and trying to determine if they are really peaceful or using A, or B, or both.

And yes running away from battle is a big deal, not just for turning your back on your country but for turning your back on guys to the left and right of you who are depending on you. And no I would not turn my back on my country the in fact only time I have ever turned my back on anyone was to invite a coward to strike.

The real Way it Goes When You're Trying to "Debate" with Delusional Islamophobes...

Rational People : Islamophobes have exaggerated the threat of Islamists taking over America. We have more to fear from Christian fascism, the Bush administration, and their foreign & economic policies.

Islamophobe : But wait! There's a show on my local cable station and it's in... "ARABIC". Clearly, they're coming to get us. They sell falafel at the Safeway. Barak Obama's middle name is Hussein. The Muslims are definitely ready to take over.

Rational People: Ummm...you know, this doesn't exactly explain how you think that the Muslims are about to take over.

Islamophobe : Well, explain to me exactly why we haven't declared war on Tunisia then. It's a Muslim country. If America is not practically under the thumb of Islam, then why haven't we invaded Tunisia?, Huh?, No one call explain this one, can they?

Rational People: Perhaps Tunisia hasn't done anything to America and doesn't warrant invasion.

Islamophobe: Well, talk to me when your wife and daughter is wearing a burkha and you're watching "Wheel of Torture" instead of Wheel of Fortune on television, then, which is clearly what you want. As it says in Sura #43, "We shall subjugate all the heathens and make them sing the praises of hummus." Doesn't that make it obvious what the plans are?

Rational People: It's not quite clear how the Muslims will be taking over America. Perhaps you can explain?

Islamophobe : Creeping Islam is ipso facto a fortiori, ad naseum, and anyone who doesn't recognize that is clearly has a tabula rasa conscience and no sense of national pride.

Rational People: We recognize that a small minority of Muslims are radicalized terrorists, but that does not reflect all of Islam, nor does it present the threat that you people suggest.

Islamophobe : There are laws against hate speech, but they apply to people who are muslim too. This is "clear" ergo propter hoc evidence that we are not free to speak anymore in America. If I can't say "Kill all the Muslims," then I'm not a free American, and the influence of Shar'ia is already upon us!!

Rational People : Actually, the idea of democracy is that laws should apply equally to everyone.

Islamophobe : I would expect the "liberals" & "appeasers" to say that. What about the cartoons, I ask. WHAT ABOUT THE CARTOONS? No one will answer me that one, will they.

Rational People : Uh, we've actually answered it about many times already. The failure of the American media to publish many stories of interest is certainly unfortunate, but to call out the issue of the cartoons, and claim that this shows some sort of capitulation to Islam, is facile. Especially when you fail to address the issue of the media's failure to cover issues of far greater concern to Americans, as in, the economy, Iraq, Afghanistan and so on.

Islamophobe : But WHAT ABOUT THE CARTOONS? No one is answering me. Why won't anyone answer me about the cartoons? They're obvious PROOF that Islam has taken over America!!! Why doesn't anyone see it? (Hey, someone pass me my tinfoil hat, okay?)

:thumbsup:

hehe, that pretty much sums it up.

 

[superstition]

When did this topic become "As America Turns"?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
Socio said:

Jihad has been used as acts of jihad terrorism, such as the Madrid bombings, or the London bombings, the Towers in New York and I believe the Islam?s foundational texts also sanction acts of jihad martyrdom, i.e. suicide bombers which kill untold innocents and whom are held in the highest esteem for doing so. It is also used in the persecution of infidels and non believers even justifying genocides.

It also makes it very clear as to why there are no ?moderate? Muslims and very few Muslims ever speak out against such atrocities because all Jihad even the most heinous is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim.

Also from what I understand Muslims are allowed to hide their true beliefs in 2 situations:

A-In case of fearing persecution
B-In case of gaining something for Islam

Something to remember when dealing with Muslims and trying to determine if they are really peaceful or using A, or B, or both.

And yes running away from battle is a big deal, not just for turning your back on your country but for turning your back on guys to the left and right of you who are depending on you. And no I would not turn my back on my country the in fact only time I have ever turned my back on anyone was to invite a coward to strike.

The real Way it Goes When You're Trying to "Debate" with Delusional Islamophobes...

Rational People : Islamophobes have exaggerated the threat of Islamists taking over America. We have more to fear from Christian fascism, the Bush administration, and their foreign & economic policies.

Islamophobe : But wait! There's a show on my local cable station and it's in... "ARABIC". Clearly, they're coming to get us. They sell falafel at the Safeway. Barak Obama's middle name is Hussein. The Muslims are definitely ready to take over.

Rational People: Ummm...you know, this doesn't exactly explain how you think that the Muslims are about to take over.

Islamophobe : Well, explain to me exactly why we haven't declared war on Tunisia then. It's a Muslim country. If America is not practically under the thumb of Islam, then why haven't we invaded Tunisia?, Huh?, No one call explain this one, can they?

Rational People: Perhaps Tunisia hasn't done anything to America and doesn't warrant invasion.

Islamophobe: Well, talk to me when your wife and daughter is wearing a burkha and you're watching "Wheel of Torture" instead of Wheel of Fortune on television, then, which is clearly what you want. As it says in Sura #43, "We shall subjugate all the heathens and make them sing the praises of hummus." Doesn't that make it obvious what the plans are?

Rational People: It's not quite clear how the Muslims will be taking over America. Perhaps you can explain?

Islamophobe : Creeping Islam is ipso facto a fortiori, ad naseum, and anyone who doesn't recognize that is clearly has a tabula rasa conscience and no sense of national pride.

Rational People: We recognize that a small minority of Muslims are radicalized terrorists, but that does not reflect all of Islam, nor does it present the threat that you people suggest.

Islamophobe : There are laws against hate speech, but they apply to people who are muslim too. This is "clear" ergo propter hoc evidence that we are not free to speak anymore in America. If I can't say "Kill all the Muslims," then I'm not a free American, and the influence of Shar'ia is already upon us!!

Rational People : Actually, the idea of democracy is that laws should apply equally to everyone.

Islamophobe : I would expect the "liberals" & "appeasers" to say that. What about the cartoons, I ask. WHAT ABOUT THE CARTOONS? No one will answer me that one, will they.

Rational People : Uh, we've actually answered it about many times already. The failure of the American media to publish many stories of interest is certainly unfortunate, but to call out the issue of the cartoons, and claim that this shows some sort of capitulation to Islam, is facile. Especially when you fail to address the issue of the media's failure to cover issues of far greater concern to Americans, as in, the economy, Iraq, Afghanistan and so on.

Islamophobe : But WHAT ABOUT THE CARTOONS? No one is answering me. Why won't anyone answer me about the cartoons? They're obvious PROOF that Islam has taken over America!!! Why doesn't anyone see it? (Hey, someone pass me my tinfoil hat, okay?)

LOL Burn:laugh:

 

[superstition]

Actually, a rational person sees religion as being the pre-science tool for explaining reality. As such, religion is obsolete and those who promote it are either deluded or opportunistic. A rational person sees all religion as a hindrance to education, and thus a danger to humanity. The degree of danger is the issue, not its existence.

However, some rational people may argue that humans have a biological urge for religion and that it's rational to have some measure of irrationality in society in order to keep morale up. "The opiate of the masses." This can be either a benign viewpoint or an exploitive one. In any case, the anguish caused by not having a pre-defined purpose for existence and a way to escape mortality is something people need to deal with honestly, in my opinion. Delusion, no matter how comforting, really isn't a path toward greater happiness.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: superstition
Actually, a rational person sees religion as being the pre-science tool for explaining reality. As such, religion is obsolete and those who promote it are either deluded or opportunistic. A rational person sees all religion as a hindrance to education, and thus a danger to humanity. The degree of danger is the issue, not its existence.

However, some rational people may argue that humans have a biological urge for religion and that it's rational to have some measure of irrationality in society in order to keep morale up. "The opiate of the masses." This can be either a benign viewpoint or an exploitive one. In any case, the anguish caused by not having a pre-defined purpose for existence and a way to escape mortality is something people need to deal with honestly, in my opinion. Delusion, no matter how comforting, really isn't a path toward greater happiness.

How many cups of coffee have you had today? You are all over the place. Good thought out posts but not entirely on topic.

 

[superstition]

I don't drink coffee. Caffeine makes me sleepy.

The post is on-topic, as the large post above defines the argument as existing between "rational people" and "Islamaphobes".

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Yeah, England is definently going to hell, we really should build concentration camps and take your advice about 'dem dere musulims wit their nukular weapons centrifuges.

The day you get to lecture me about letting muslims take over is the day you roll back the fucking Iraq war (that had nothing to do with terrorism, WMD's or Muslims) and step back to Afghanistan, before that you can shut the FUCK up Sinsear.

I changed my fucking view the last few days, get the fuck out of Iraq and GET BACK ON THE WOT that the rest of the fucking civilised world is fighting, you know, THE ONE YOU STARTED.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Story Here

The increasing influence of Islam on British culture is disclosed in research today that shows the number of Muslims worshipping at mosques in England and Wales will outstrip the numbers of Roman Catholics going to church in little more than a decade.

Projections to be published next month estimate that, if trends continue, the number of Catholic worshippers at Sunday Mass will fall to 679,000 by 2020.

By that time, statisticians predict, the number of Muslims praying in mosques on Fridays will have increased to 683,000.

The Christian Research figures also suggest that, over the same period, the number of Muslims at mosques will overtake Church of England members at Sunday services.

Church spokesmen point out, however, that a growing number of Anglicans worship at other times of the week.

The projections show that, if the Churches do not reverse their historical decline, there will be more active Muslims than Christians in Sunday services across Britain before the middle of the century.

The figures, based on Government and academic sources and the latest edition of Christian Research's Religious Trends, come amid growing tensions over the place of Muslims in British society.

They follow fierce rows over the extent to which Islamic law should be recognised and over claims that "no-go" areas for non-Muslims are emerging in parts of the country.

Dr Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, provoked criticism by saying the introduction of some aspects of sharia into British society was "unavoidable".

The Bishop of Rochester, the Rt Rev Michael Nazir-Ali, faced death threats after writing in The Sunday Telegraph that Islamic extremism was turning some communities into "no-go" areas "where adherence to this ideology has become a mark of acceptability".

Peter Brierley, a former Government statistician who edited the latest Religious Trends, said that the continuing growth of the Muslim population since the 2001 census would have significant implications for society.

Islam is making more of an inroad into England everyday. And with the modern trend of less and less people going to church this is a very feasible statistic. As it has been discussed before, the inclusion of Sharia law could be somewhere close down the road if the appeasement keeps up.

We're a daft bunch, we believe in shit like human rights, freedom of religion (which includes places to worship) and integration instead of assimilation (giving up your identity).

You know where we got that from? From what the USA used to stand for? No, not really, you have never embraced freedom unless it comes in the only form you allow it to exist in.

You think freedom means to restrict religious beliefs? You think it comes from strict control of certain ethnicities? You certainly don't need a Bin Ladin, you are restricting it all by yourself, for the worst reason of all, fear.

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
Socio said:

Jihad has been used as acts of jihad terrorism, such as the Madrid bombings, or the London bombings, the Towers in New York and I believe the Islam?s foundational texts also sanction acts of jihad martyrdom, i.e. suicide bombers which kill untold innocents and whom are held in the highest esteem for doing so. It is also used in the persecution of infidels and non believers even justifying genocides.

It also makes it very clear as to why there are no ?moderate? Muslims and very few Muslims ever speak out against such atrocities because all Jihad even the most heinous is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim.

Also from what I understand Muslims are allowed to hide their true beliefs in 2 situations:

A-In case of fearing persecution
B-In case of gaining something for Islam

Something to remember when dealing with Muslims and trying to determine if they are really peaceful or using A, or B, or both.

And yes running away from battle is a big deal, not just for turning your back on your country but for turning your back on guys to the left and right of you who are depending on you. And no I would not turn my back on my country the in fact only time I have ever turned my back on anyone was to invite a coward to strike.

The real Way it Goes When You're Trying to "Debate" with Delusional Islamophobes...

Rational People : Islamophobes have exaggerated the threat of Islamists taking over America. We have more to fear from Christian fascism, the Bush administration, and their foreign & economic policies.

Islamophobe : But wait! There's a show on my local cable station and it's in... "ARABIC". Clearly, they're coming to get us. They sell falafel at the Safeway. Barak Obama's middle name is Hussein. The Muslims are definitely ready to take over.

Rational People: Ummm...you know, this doesn't exactly explain how you think that the Muslims are about to take over.

Islamophobe : Well, explain to me exactly why we haven't declared war on Tunisia then. It's a Muslim country. If America is not practically under the thumb of Islam, then why haven't we invaded Tunisia?, Huh?, No one call explain this one, can they?

Rational People: Perhaps Tunisia hasn't done anything to America and doesn't warrant invasion.

Islamophobe: Well, talk to me when your wife and daughter is wearing a burkha and you're watching "Wheel of Torture" instead of Wheel of Fortune on television, then, which is clearly what you want. As it says in Sura #43, "We shall subjugate all the heathens and make them sing the praises of hummus." Doesn't that make it obvious what the plans are?

Rational People: It's not quite clear how the Muslims will be taking over America. Perhaps you can explain?

Islamophobe : Creeping Islam is ipso facto a fortiori, ad naseum, and anyone who doesn't recognize that is clearly has a tabula rasa conscience and no sense of national pride.

Rational People: We recognize that a small minority of Muslims are radicalized terrorists, but that does not reflect all of Islam, nor does it present the threat that you people suggest.

Islamophobe : There are laws against hate speech, but they apply to people who are muslim too. This is "clear" ergo propter hoc evidence that we are not free to speak anymore in America. If I can't say "Kill all the Muslims," then I'm not a free American, and the influence of Shar'ia is already upon us!!

Rational People : Actually, the idea of democracy is that laws should apply equally to everyone.

Islamophobe : I would expect the "liberals" & "appeasers" to say that. What about the cartoons, I ask. WHAT ABOUT THE CARTOONS? No one will answer me that one, will they.

Rational People : Uh, we've actually answered it about many times already. The failure of the American media to publish many stories of interest is certainly unfortunate, but to call out the issue of the cartoons, and claim that this shows some sort of capitulation to Islam, is facile. Especially when you fail to address the issue of the media's failure to cover issues of far greater concern to Americans, as in, the economy, Iraq, Afghanistan and so on.

Islamophobe : But WHAT ABOUT THE CARTOONS? No one is answering me. Why won't anyone answer me about the cartoons? They're obvious PROOF that Islam has taken over America!!! Why doesn't anyone see it? (Hey, someone pass me my tinfoil hat, okay?)

Can?t discredit the logic so try and discredit the poster very imaginative, NOT!

 

[superstition]

Can everyone stop quoting the entire thing. Just quite a line or two and add "snip".

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Socio

Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
Socio said:

*snip*

Can?t discredit the logic so try and discredit the poster very imaginative, NOT!

Logic?

edit: for Super

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: superstition
When did this topic become "As America Turns"?

Well, it is about the American crossroads, the suggestion the OP makes is that limiting religious freedom for ONE faith will ensure freedom.

Of course, only a true moron would think that it does, the law is the law and every citisen abides by it, it goes for England and it goes for the US.

This is propaganda, it belongs in a different age, like 1939 and oh YES i did say that, the propaganda against the Muslims that people like Sinsear spews is not all that different from the propaganda spread by the Nazis in the late 30's and from there on, in fact, it is basically the same, "they are trying to take over our society, they hate our values, they are our enemies" could be a part of any speech Hitler ever made.

So take either one of the roads, freedom or restriction, the choice is yours to make, the ones who follow the restriction route carries the constitution and yells it out here and there, the ones who follow the freedom route... follows the constitution, in essence, all that is in there is written to ensure freedom for the people.